Talk:Pete Best/Archive 1

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This article sounds distinctly biased against Best

I am no expert on the beatles or pete best, but this article sounds biased against pete best. No where in the article is he even quoted, although there are plenty of quotes that esentially paint him as a buffoon.

==

I agree. But the person who put it up did quote Lennon. I've been a Beatles fan for a long time and I've heard conflicting stories about why he was dismissed from The Beatles. PBS recently aired a Pete Best biography called "Best of the Beatles". But that could be biased for him and not necessarily the truth. I guess we'll never really know. He was a guest at a NY Beatles convention recently and did a pretend bow every time Paul McCartney's name was mentioned. I can't say much about his drumming, but you couldn't have the Beatles w/out Ringo. So it all worked for the best. ;) Pun not intended.

--

I didn't really think this article was biased, at first, but when I went back and looked again, I wound up changing it quite a bit to hopefully balance the viewpoint a bit. Heck, I only came here to add a bit from a game show that I have on a VHS tape (called Fun With the Fab Four, btw). Anyway, I hope this helps remove the perceived bias. :) Eaglizard 09:44, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


---

"Aside from that, there has also always been the assumption that the other Beatles were jealous of Best's appeal with the female fans, since he was more conventionally handsome than the other members, a problem that certainly would not exist with Ringo in his place."

is not biased AGAINST pete... 200.82.43.187 17:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Photo to offset bias

I added a photo on 3/2 to show the mellow and relaxed Pete Best of today. The caption read, "Pete Best in 2005 with record producer Miriam Linna of Norton Records." The photo was removed a few days later on the claim that it was promoting someone. Actually, it's just a photo of the two smiling, and it was necessary to identify Linna. If she isn't identified, then it immediately raises the question: Who is she? The true nature and meaning of the photo is altered if I crop to show only Best, so I'd rather not do that. Pepso 12:54, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

"Tufano" vandalism

Note that edits inserting supposed information about "Marc Tufano" are vandalism and should be reverted on sight. This has affected multiple articles (Robert De Niro, The Beatles, etc. etc.) -- Curps 14:48, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

picture

The picture link is broken. Telliott 17:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Nonsensical statement

This doesn't make sense:

In an appearance on an American game show roughly two years later, Best seemed to deny that he was fired. Asked why "he left the band," the still-ducktailed Best replied that he "...didn't think they would go as far as they did", however, this was not true. In later years, Best himself has admitted to being a Beatles fan and owning their records.

How on earth does Best's being a Beatles fan contradict his not expecting them to go as far as they did? Simply being a fan of a band is not equivalent to expecting them to top the charts. --Saforrest 20:17, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Here's another one:

A frustrated McCartney would rerecord Ringo's drum tracks himself on two of the White Album years later.

I'd correct it myself, but I don't know what the fact is. --Alanhoyle 02:45, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I've always read that it was on the white album, not Let it Be as the article used to day. Ringo Starr says that too. f course, the whole thing can be left out, because it doesn't relate to Pete Best. Bubba73 (talk), 03:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
McCartney did indeed play drums on at least three White Album tracks ("Back in the U.S.S.R.," "Dear Prudence," and "Birthday"), but that was because Ringo had quit the band. He returned several days later and was welcomed back by the others. It had nothing whatsoever to do with any frustration over Ringo's ability; in fact, McCartney called him "the best drummer in the world." This is well documented in the Beatles' "Anthology" documentary and book.
In fact, this entire passage unnecessarily questions Ringo's abilities as a drummer, without citation, and despite the fact that most experts regard him as an excellent (though not flashy) drummer. Even the statement about Ringo being unable to play a drum roll is a myth; he can be heard playing perfectly competent drum rolls on several Beatles recordings (e.g. "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite" and "All You Need Is Love"). --Bxojr 18:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I just corrected it from "Let it Be" to White album the other day, but I agree with taking out that part (which has been done.) Bubba73 (talk), 23:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Moe Howard

I've never heard anyone compare the Beatles haircuts to Moe Howard of the Three Stooges. If there's no opposition, I'm changing this reference to 'moptop'-style.

Pete vs. Ringo

Truly, a SAD story. To think that it could have been Pete Best, billionaire instead of Ringo Starr. One man's rise to fame and fortune and another one's fall. One man lucky, the other was not. I'm sure that Ringo Starr was a great drummer...but this other guy probably could have easily done the job. Let's face it, there are a lot of very competent drummers out there. It's only speculation...but either there must have been have been a bit of jealousy from the other members over Best's charisma and good looks--or--Manager Epstein felt that as a drummer, his stage presence was simply too overpowering for the others. Maybe it was a bit of both. Anyway, just my two bits. Please feel free to agree or disagree. 24.82.249.37 22:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC) Art Jones

I disagree... completely and emphatically. Have you listened to the Beatles recordings with Best on drums, with both ears?! The man showed absolutely NO chops whatsoever. Maybe he got some later... but not in time for their EMI audition. George Martin didn't want him on their records for Parlophone, and for good reason; his whole drum style from those years can be reduced to three very simple drum patterns, and they're basically ALL HE EVER USED. Martin wrote in his autobiography that he depended on Ringo's drumming to give strength to the sound of their early hits. Best didn't have that. He also didn't have Starr's wit, which fit right in with the other members.
Try playing the Beatles early stuff with Best on drums, back-to-back with later versions of the same songs (or similar ones), with Starr playing, then come back and tell us if you still think Best would have had the same impact. (btw, Starr is not a billionaire. He earned the least of the four, having written the fewest number of songs; most of John and Paul's fortunes came through their songwriting, and George following with his.) Zephyrad 04:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Paul AND George wanted Pete Best out not John and Brian Epstein. Another thing is that Pete could only play fours: boom-boom-boom-boom. He was great because he was loud-period. Try listening to Besame Mucho. ete practically strangled Paul's bass lines, while Ringo complemented them. Sandy June 21:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Ringo was a better drummer-but Pete Best was also a great drummer. Most Liverpool musicians who heard him play live with the band thought he was great included the Searcheers drummer Chris Curtis. It's quite possible that in the Beatle days Best got nervous in a recording studio. That was very common. If you listen to his work with the Pete Best Combo, you can tell he was fine. But the Beatles needed Ringo because he got along with the others much better.

This article needs a lot of work

I also believe this article is biased. It reads like it was written by a Pete Best fan and needs a lot of work. In fact, the proofreading needs some work itself. Incredibly, no one has challenged the statement "Some have speculated that Apple Records head Neil Aspinall, who reportedly remains friendly with Best, saw to it that Best would be compensated". "Some have speculated"? "Reportedly"? These are weasel words if I ever saw any. Amazingly, someone asked for the source of the quote that immediately preceded this and left the "some have speculated/reportedly" quote alone. What's up with that? If we're going to ask for sources, let's not just attack the stuff we don't want to hear and leave things we want to hear unchallenged. Anyway, I don't feel I know enough about Pete Best to fix the article, and I don't want to mess it up further, so I'm leaving it alone. Perhaps a Beatle fan with sources he or she has collected over the years could rewrite this one. Celedor15 20:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I have cleaned a lot of sentences, added Headers, info, references, and photos. egde 09:43, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

References

There is a lot of stuff (with good references) on other Beatle's pages (look at the status board on the project page) that can be copied/paraphrased into this article. :) egde 18:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

References in popular culture

I snipped[1] this trivia section as it was a list of non-notable mentions of a well known piece of recent history. It is possible some of these quotes could be built into a proper essay on Best's significance as a walking-metaphor for missed opportunities, but since it's mostly a generational in-joke, probably not. / edgarde 20:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Good work. andreasegde 18:04, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Blackjacks

Why no mention of them? They're considered important enough to mention in The Beatles, and yet more relevant here. google:pete+best+blackjacks --kingboyk 19:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

GA

After George Martin has got his GA, Pete Best is next. --andreasegde 10:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

In the documentary The Compleat Beatles, Williams said that Best "played not too cleverly, but passable".

Who or what is Williams? Why is this mentioned out of the blue?

I'm not an expert so I can't do it myselt, but this should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.243.195.136 (talk) 20:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Allan Williams, the first manager. Pete's page will undergo a big change over the next week or so, and things will be made clearer. --andreasegde 07:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Pete Best

I have started on this, but I will leave the Lead until last, as it is easier to fill it in when the whole article is complete. I will also not put links in to names, places etc., as this is a problem when going through the article and deleting double links. (It is also easier to do it at the end...) --andreasegde 15:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

It's going well, I think... --andreasegde 20:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
We need page numbers from Spencer Leigh's book. --andreasegde 00:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
How's it goin', La?
Not bad, an' I tink it's gonna be done quicker dan U can shake a lamb's tail, if ya know-wha'-I'm-talkin'-about, like. --andreasegde 20:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
If you can understand that, you must be from Liverpool. If you don't, ask Vera, Chuck & Dave, because he is... :) --andreasegde 20:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

GA

I have nominated it, but it's not quite finished. The backlog on the nom page should give me a few days to clear up some minor problems. --andreasegde 10:44, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Minor problems are nearly cleared up. --andreasegde 12:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
It's ready, but I don't know how long it will take to get a review. --andreasegde 16:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


GA nomination on hold

  • The infobox mentions that he was a baker, yet I don't see this mentioned elsewhere in the article. I doubt it was notable, so it should be removed from the infobox.

 Done It has gone. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

 Done I changed it. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "best known as the original drummer for The Beatles, which also included Stuart Sutcliffe, who played bass guitar." (lead) - Sutcliffe's mention here isn't necessary.

 Done He has gone. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "He was dismissed from the group two years later, on 16 August 1962" (lead) - A brief statement of why this happened would be useful

 Done Changed to: "on 16 August 1962, but was never given a full explanation as to the reason why" --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • I assume John Best is Pete Best's father, but you may wish to confirm this (India section).

 Done "Best's father, John Best, came from a family". --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • When referencing websites, {{cite web}} should be used, so that the accessdate is wikilinked. I'm not sure about this, but I think User:AndyZ/PR can convert the current refs to cite web.
This is a tricky one, because in the 11 previous GA articles I have worked on, the advice was always to do them as you suggested, or as they are here, but not both in a mixed-up way. I once consulted an Admin (kingboyk) about this in the past, and he agreed. Mimi Smith and Paul McCartney both went for an FAR and the reference formatting (the same as is in this article) was not an issue. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
  • The India section describes John briefly, then his meeting with Mona, then briefly describes Mona, then her meeting with John. It would flow better if you introduced John and Mona in the first two sentences, then discussed their meeting.

 Done Well spotted. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Broken wikilink for 1945 at the end of the India section.

 Done Fixed. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Ref 6 - I don't think members.aol is a reliable source (same qualms with 3 and 4).
Reference 6 has gone, but 3 and 4 have a statement on the main page that says, "Beatles Ireland would like to thank Bill Harry and Virgin Publications in giving their permission to use these files." On each page it says (at the bottom): "Copyright: Bill Harry, from 'The Beatles Encyclopedia', published by Virgin Publications." --andreasegde 14:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
  • "called "Ellerslie Manor", but Mona fell out..." - Change "but" to "until", I think.

 Done Changed it. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "The idea for the club first came from Best," - Pete or John?

 Done Changed it to "The idea for the club first came from Best, as he asked his mother for somewhere his friends could meet...". --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "Chas Newby and Bill Barlow joined the group, as did Ken Brown, but only after he had left The Quarrymen.[17][18]" - Any relevant wikilinks here?
Not much chance of Wiki-linking them, as they are not notable, except for one or two concerts, and Brown was in The Quarrymen --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
  • The second half of paragraph 2 of the Liverpool section is more of a Quarrymen/Ken Brown/Mona bio then a Pete Best bio.

 Done Took it out. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "Having no permanent drummer, McCartney looked around for someone to fill the Hamburg position" - Paul needs a wikilink here; it's his first mention in the article

 Done Linked him. (One early McCartney song is called, "Thinking of Linking", BTW :) --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "and it was noted that he had become a steady, pounding, drummer, which meant he played the bass drum on all four beats in the bar, which pushed the rhythm." - Use something other than "which", both times.

 Done Changed to "and it was noted that he had become a steady drummer, meaning that..."--andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Second paragraph of "The Beatles and Hamburg" needs serious wikilinking - words including "beats", "phoned", "drummer", the pounds symbol, "exams", "audition" all need wikilinking.

 Done Drummer is linked in the Lead, but I have done the others.--andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Fair use image at the start of "My Bonnie" isn't really necessary. Same with the fair use audio sample.

 Done They have both gone. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "My Bonnie was later released in the UK" - My Bonnie needs "quotation marks"

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "Until Epstein's arrival on the scene,..." - "on the scene" is rather informal.

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "Reasons for" - Rather ambigous section title...

 Done Changed it. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Image should be above the first paragraph, at the top of the section

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "they often took "Prellies" to keep themselves awake" - quotation marks shouldn't be wikilinked

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "Leigh reiterated Mersey Beat's report that during the Teenagers' Turn showcase" - "Mersey Beat's" should be in italics.

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "In Manchester his popularity was assured by his looks alone" - Informal, should probably just be merged with the next sentence.

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "Pete was surrounded..." --> "Best was surrounded..."

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Ref 76 - What is The Beatles’ Encyclopedia?

 Done Put Harry's book reference in. --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "A few days after Best was dismissed" ---> "Soon after Best was dismissed"

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "and released the single "I'm Gonna Knock On Your Door". The single flopped.[78]" - Merge these into one sentence.

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "and then later as..." --> "and later as..."

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Refs 78 and 79 have the same link

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "he was neither willing to talk about nor otherwise cash in on his Beatles' association" - cash in is a bit informal. How about "he was not willing to talk about his Beatles' association"?

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "He once tried to commit suicide, but was talked out of it by his mother, Mona, and his brother, Rory." - Source/Ref?

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "Discography:" - This should be a seperate section, titled "Pete Best Discography" or similar

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Only the first external link is necessary - the others can be used as refs or else removed. Same applies to multimedia - none of them should be kept in that standalone section.

 Done --andreasegde 17:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC) Reviewed version: [2] Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 07:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for the review. I've started, but will finish it tonight. --andreasegde 10:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I've done them all, but I will go through them again just to check. --andreasegde 18:01, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Passed. Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 01:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I thank you kindly, Sir. --andreasegde (talk) 09:02, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Pete Best/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comments from WikiProject The Beatles:

Last edited at 16:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 15:33, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

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References

Any edit made without a verifiable reference will be deleted, including edits that are slipped into referenced sentences, BTW. --andreasegde (talk) 02:48, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Love Me Do

Although Martin used a session drummer for The Beatles' first single—as many producers did at the time

As any reliable Beatle source will tell you, the original British single of Love Me Do used a take featuring Ringo on drums. It's the version on the album Please Please Me that uses session man Andy White on drums. By all accounts, the Andy White version didn't turn up on a UK single until 1976, when Love Me Do was reissued by Parlophone along with numerous other Beatle singles. 217.155.20.163 (talk) 20:39, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

In that case, please provide any reliable Beatle source to that effect. Cheers, Vera, Chuck & Dave (talk) 21:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
You are quite correct my friend! Ringo did play on the first red label pressing: Record Collector Rare Record Price Guide p99. I have ammended the article, thanks! Vera, Chuck & Dave (talk) 18:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Best's dimissal

Striving for a page number and a quote about what Epstein said in the office.... --andreasegde (talk) 16:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Funny thing, I just watched an episode of I've Got a Secret from the Spring of 1964 where Pete Best was a contestant and his secret was "I quit my job two years ago". After the game, he said he quit the Beatles to form his own group and that he did not know they would become even more popular and regretted leaving a little bit.EagleFan (talk) 13:30, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I bet neither Paul McCartney nor John Lennon wanted Pet best around, because his good looks threatened to overshadow them. It stands to reason that they'd choose a homely, far less charismatic person in Ringo Starr to replace him. Lucky guy. They could have selected a truck driver with a moving van as Best's replacement and today, he'd be raking in the billions. But that being said, Ringo certainly was not lacking in personality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.114.82.195 (talk) 20:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Good looks? He looks like crap now, I don't know how hed'd look so much better than the other beatles back then. 72.199.100.223 (talk) 20:28, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

He was so handsome during the two and a half years that he played as a Beatle that he practically rendered the other three Beatles invisible to the female fans in Hamburg and Liverpool's Cavern, which would have continued to be the case had he remained in the band. The other three Beatles were so happy to hire a homely guy (Ringo) to replace Best: not only did he not suck up all the female attention in the audience, Ringo even made the other three seem handsome by comparison. George Raft Has Risen From the Grave (talk) 21:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

As for "I've Got A Secret", I think I saw "I left my job ...". The emcee then said there must be something more; he (Best) wouldn't have come over from England to tell that. So we saw "I was one of the Beatles". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 20:49, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

picture

I suggest adding a picture of him or at least his face in the table. Paul Italiano 20:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

There was a really great one of him sitting behind his kit in Hamburg 'til the image police zapped it! Cheers, Vera, Chuck & Dave (talk) 20:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I will upload that one again and put it lower down in the article, but only if you remind me to do it. :) --andreasegde (talk) 15:34, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

why was pete best dismissed from the beatles? because he was a lousy drummer, that's why. not that ringo was any great shakes as a drummer, but "best" apparently was even worse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.206.70 (talk) 22:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Read the article. You really should.--212.241.64.236 (talk) 20:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
I think Best was fired from the Beatles simply because he was so incandescently handsome that it made the other Beatles look even more ordinary by comparison. On the whole, Best made the others seem comparatively invisible, as though Paul Newman, Robert Redford or Brad Pitt were on the drums, inexorably and inevitably drawing women's attention away. You could see what I mean if there were a single photograph of Best from that era or with the other Beatles anywhere in Wikipedia but there isn't (by the way, why is that??), even in the article on the band itself. Starr obviously wasn't chosen for his drumming prowess (he couldn't even do a drum roll!), the recording company the Beatles started out with moved heaven and earth to have Starr switched out for a more competent drummer, using studio drummers on their earliest recordings in desperation, but the other three Beatles were adamant. For public consumption, Lennon came up with the most damning explanation imaginable regarding why Best was fired, that they were bored with Best, the most insulting thing any man could say about another one if you think about it. Toward the end of the Beatles' recording together, McCartney was using his own drumming tracks due to Starr's inability to keep up. Best's drumming on early onsite recordings at places like the Cavern are readily available, or at least they used to be, and I encourage everyone to listen to them back to back with a bootleg record made there with Starr substituting with the Beatles for one night, quite a while before he joined the band, because Best happened to be ill that evening. Starr says, "It's great to be a Beatle" at one point that night, which was recorded quite a while before Best was fired. If you compare their drumming, you'll see. Neither of them would make Buddy Rich or Gene Krupa lose any sleep but it's starkly obvious (so to speak) that Ringo certainly wasn't chosen for his dexterity with drumsticks. George Raft Has Risen From the Grave (talk) 22:09, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

I have a strong suspicion that Pete Best himself has been at work on this article. It seems to present him as Mr. Perfect.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.168.31 (talk) 13:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I worked on it a lot, and I'm not Pete Best. I just told the truth from books I have, and added references. It seems Best was just too quiet and shy to be a troublemaker.--andreasegde (talk) 11:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The Rocker?

Should The Rocker (film) be mentioned in this article? The film is basically a story about a drummer that goes through the same thing that happened to Best. Pete Best will have a cameo in it as himself.PokeHomsar (talk) 09:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

If it has a valid reference, yes.--212.241.64.236 (talk) 20:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
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