Talk:Pawnee Bill Ranch

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Edit warring[edit]

For some reason these people want to deny the existence of slavery. To quote the History Department at Duke University unanimously adopted and published a statement noting that there can be no doubt that there was slavery in the United States. There is no debate among historians about the actuality of slavery and that American Indians, Pawnee included, were victims of slave holders and land grabs. This is the most recent account of slavery in Oklahoma. “Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Slaves“, Volume XIII: Oklahoma Narratives (2007).

There's no doubt that slavery existed and that it was a horrible time in American history, but this has nothing to do with the Pawnee Bill Ranch nor is this an issue of a land grab. The property was purchased rightfully and there is documentation to prove this. If you wish to talk about slavery in Oklahoma, you might want to check out the Cherokee Freedmen Controversy or Choctaw as well as many other tribes located in the state.Historicalidentity (talk) 21:19, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have protected this page from editing for one week. If the two of you resume the revert war after the protection expires, without making an attempt to discuss your issues, I intend to place blocks on both accounts. Looie496 (talk) 19:06, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ranch[edit]

The ranch house is not a Sears home. It was built by architect James Hamilton from Chester, Pennsylvania. This is clearly stated in the National Register of Historic Places nomination written by Oklahoma Historical Society member Kent Ruth in 1975 using records found in the Pawnee County Courthouse. There is no evidence to the claim that the home was built using slave labor. Records from the ranch archives show that it used paid and skilled labourers. There is also no evidence to support that the house is infested with mold nor experiencing structural issues. There is also no evidence to support the claim that the bison herd is "dwindling". The operational hours of the Ranch are also misleading.Historicalidentity (talk) 19:36, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. ...

Answer: http://nrhp.focus.nps.gov/ The Pawnee Bill Ranch in Oklahoma is not listed in the National Register of Historic Places. The current Pawnee Bill Ranch article states that the Ranch is open year round. The first Wiki editors are correct: the Pawnee Bill Ranch article should be scheduled for speedy deletion as Wiki planned. Historicalidentity wants to use it for business purposes - as an advertisement.

Here is WIKI note: The article Pawnee Bill Ranch has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: Not notable.

Is the Oklahoma Historical Society page about the ranch accurate? Looie496 (talk) 21:42, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any reason why this NewsOK story is not a valid source? Looie496 (talk) 21:46, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The website from the Oklahoma Historical Society is absolutely accurate as is the NEWSOK story. If you have doubts as to the accuracy you can contact the site manager or the Oklahoma Historical Society. There have been multiple stories written about the centennial of the Ranch which is happening this year. The Ranch has been on the National Register of Historic Places since 1975 and the original nomination form and information can be found at http://www.ocgi.okstate.edu/shpo/shpopic.asp?id=75001571. It is listed under its original name of Blue Hawk Peak, which is what the site is still known as today. This article is also accurate http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=436&articleid=20100607_38_D3_RgrHgi126914&archive=yes from the Tulsa World. It has also been featured in national media sources such as True West Magazine and Better Homes and Gardens as well as books such as Rancho Deluxe and Oklahoma: A Portrait of America. I simply ask of as to why they think that I'm trying to use it as a business page? You were the one to originally create the page and now you wish for it to be deleted? I'm simply trying to make corrections to things that aren't the truth. If you created it, I would hope that you would at least have the foresight to make sure that the information you are putting on this page is at least accurate.Historicalidentity (talk) 02:54, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to add a few things from the last time I put evidence on here. If you would read the nomination form for the National Register of Historic Places on pages 2,3,5 and 7 you will see the descriptions on the Ranch home written from original sources. You can also see photos and video of the Ranch, along with some of the history of it at the TravelOK website, which is the Oklahoma Tourism magazine. I would also like to point out that the "dwindling" bison heard is a work of fiction and the site is an active member of the Oklahoma Bison Association. As far as Pawnee Bill's character towards using slave labor and not paying the Pawnee, I point you towards this article which states that he was made the White Chief of the Pawnee in the 1870s. This can also further be confirmed with this naming ceremony skin for the actress Jennifer Jones, signed by Gordon Lillie as the "White Chief of the Pawnee". I would also like to point the admin towards another Wikipedia page on Slave Narrative where is states that the WPA project was undertaken by the United States Government in the 1930s to interview African Americans who had been slaves up until the 13th Amendment was passed. This website from the University of Virginia also talks about this project, which has absolutely no mention of Pawnee Bill, Pawnee Bill Ranch, or the Pawnee Tribe. The Ranch was not built until 1910, long after slavery had already been abolished.Historicalidentity (talk) 16:31, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

great sources from Historical Idenity - ebay, LOL . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.97.41.111 (talk) 16:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It was a secondary confirmation, not the original. The original mention is in the Knight's Templar article as well as in the Glenn Shirley biography, the only published biography on Pawnee Bill. Thank you at least for your complement despite the sarcasim. Historicalidentity (talk) 18:54, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tintle, can you show any published evidence that any of those statements are wrong? Looie496 (talk) 03:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am now going to unprotect the article. It is clear that reliable sources for this article are available, as discussed above. Wikipedia policy states that any changes to an article must be based on reputable published sources. If I see edit-warring to insert material into this article that is not attributable to published sources, I will take whatever administrative action is necessary to enforce Wikipedia's policies. Looie496 (talk) 21:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looie496, thank you for your help in the matter.Historicalidentity (talk) 03:08, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NewsOK is a booster travel source. A better source is the United States Government Federal Projects Administration published book on this subject 2007. This NewsOk source cites something signed by Gordon Lillie as the "White Chief of the Pawnee" ? 152.132.9.73 (talk) 18:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NEWSOK is the official site of the Daily Oklahoman, a trusted source for news in the state of Oklahoma and one of two major newspapers that circulates on a regular basis.Historicalidentity (talk) 19:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Too Bad[edit]

Too bad this page is protecting from editing on this version, because this article is a shame. The Pawnee Bill Ranch is a field site administered by the Oklahoma Historical Society - a corrected version should be put into place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mosesdown (talk • contribs) 20:11, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nowah Too Bad Too for Pawnee Indians: Too bad people will not listen to ancestral history still. We are still here, since 1875. Federal Work Projects Administration. “Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Slaves“, Volume XIII: Oklahoma Narratives (2007).152.132.9.73 (talk) 20:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If the museum didn't want to listen why does the tribe still have anything to do with them? I fail to see what Slave Narratives has anything to do with the site. Historicalidentity (talk) 02:56, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NRHP[edit]

http://www.ocgi.okstate.edu/shpo/shpopic.asp?id=75001571

http://nrhp.focus.nps.gov/natregsearchresult.do?fullresult=true&recordid=0

Record # 369587 Item # 75001571 National Register Information System

The Pawnee Bill Ranch is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, 1975. Where in the slave narratives is Gordon Lillie mentioned? Mosesdown (talk) 22:47, 18 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mosesdown (talk • contribs) 22:43, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Added Wiki Project Museums[edit]

Labelled as start class and low importance, consistent with assessment by other projects for this article. Bruin2 (talk) 05:24, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]