Talk:Paul Bragg/Archive 2

Bragg's Children

Just out of curiosity, what was Bragg's relationship with his children/grand/great grandchildren? Does anyone else find it odd that he would "will" his entire "health empire" exclusively to his ex-daughter-in-law, Patricia, instead of to one of his many biological grand and great grandchildren? Why would the ex-daughter-in-law, Patricia, be chosen, unless their relationship was more than "paternal? What was the real reason Patricia divorced Bragg's son? I just find the entire thing odd and very suspect. 74.229.102.208 (talk) 16:17, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

In answer to your questions I doubt if anyone knows, beyond the immediate family, Bragg's relationship with his descendents after his son's & Patricia's 1957 divorce. though I suspect they didn't spend a lot of Thanksgiving dinners together.

What is known is that Paul Bragg signed a Will in January 1958, which Will was probated in Riverside County, CA after his 1976 death, bequeathing $2,500. to each of his two bio daughters, Neva Pauline & Lorraine Agnes, cutting bio son, Robert Elton Bragg, entirely out of his Will and specifically leaving nothing to any siblings or grandchildren or their issue. Except for that total $5,000 bequest to the daughters, Patricia Bragg was the sole beneficiary of Paul's estate, either by Will or by joint tenancy. However. given the assets in Paul's estate at his death, there's no evidence that Patricia inherited Paul's "health empire" as there no longer seems to have been one.

As far as why Patricia sued Robert for divorce, who knows?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.71.128 (talk) 04:04, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

If Paul Bragg died of a surfing accident in Waikiki at age 96 as Patricia Pendleton ( real name on current Identification ) contends then why were his remains in Florida and why do several prominent natural hygienists claim they were with him at the dinner where he choked to death on the fish bone in North Palm Beach ,Florida in 1976 (when he was 81 years old)? His death location and circumstances were fabricated .

Patricia's current passport and driver's license are issued to Patricia Pendleton not Patricia Bragg. Please account for that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.239.173.106 (talk) 23:43, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia prints what verifiable secondary and tertiary sources indicate. That's what an encyclopedia does. This is not a forum for debate on morality or lack thereof. If you can find notable sources to indicate other facts than those in evidence, I would be excited to see them, and they should be included in the article. Otherwise, unsupported theories go no further than "talk" pages, which is appropriate, as this page exists only to improve the article. I'm glad you pointed out what you know, however. Personally, I have been a proponent of Paul Bragg and some of his products, and some of his philosophy of health, nutrition and fitness for decades. The obvious inconsistencies throughout his life and bio are eye-opening and a bit alarming. Nevertheless, I can verify that the man was knowledgeable, his methods and products work, particularly the aminos and apple cider vinegar. There are many other sources for acv, but Bragg's is top quality. rags (talk) 13:23, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Rags: As far as Paul Bragg's interest in vinegar of ANY Type during his lifetime as a "health aid", it apparently didn't exist UNTIL 1958 when Dr. D.C. Jarvis (1881-1966), a Barre, Vermont medical doctor, wrote a book entitled "Folk Medicine, A Vermont Doctor's Guide to Good Health", which sold over a million copies & was on the New York Times best-seller list for over two years. This was actually what popularized apple cider vinegar as a "health tonic" with the public & likely made the Good Doctor a reasonably wealthy man. If people actually take the time to read Paul Bragg's "health books" from the beginning in the late 1920ties through the 1960ties, I'm sure they would be surprised to find his comments on vinegar were not good at all, and that he always suggested lemon juice as a substitute for vinegar. Now he had the manufacturing resources to easily & cheaply make organic or non-organic apple cider vinegar during his long lifetime if he was so impressed by its results (heck, you can make it yourself without much difficulty; there's home-made recipes on the internet), but there's no indication that he ever did. His "Four Generation Health Food Cook Book and Menus", republished only six years before his death (Seventh Edition 1970)again has no salad dressing recipes, or any other recipes, using "vinegar", and he again specifically denigrates vinegar ("we use...lemon juice, instead of harsh, irritating vinegar"), and says absolutely nothing about apple cider vinegar, for a good example, as a substitute. My take on ACV is that it likely never existed during Paul Bragg's lifetime, and was a later addition to the Bragg product line, and had nothing to do with Paul. But perhaps someone could show otherwise? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.177.253 (talk) 04:04, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Bragg's Death

What does "The strong medications used to rescue him contrasted too severely with his lifestyle" mean? Statement is pseudoscience.67.2.208.183 (talk) 18:57, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

That may be. The statement is that of Patricia Bragg, and therefore notable, however nonsensical. She is entitled to an opinion. You are entitled to ignore it, but not to remove it. rags (talk) 13:28, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Starting anew

Since this article had a ton of problems, I decided it would be best we just did away with it and started over again. If you are going to add information to the article, cite your sources and keep neutrality in mind. (messedrocker • thhhhalk) 20:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Dr Paul C. Bragg was born in 1895 and he never comdenmded apple cider vineger, if he did, why does he still. Paul C. Bragg is God, let his legacy remain unscaded, he healed he of depression and near blindness, he got in a surfing accident at 97 and he didn't choke on a chicken bone, that's rubbist. He will judge those who try to tarnish his reputation, his Father used ACV == There is little doubt, if any, that Bragg was born in 1895...==

which casts a dark pall over his work and legacy.

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/bragg.htm

I do not have the time or inclination thuoo write the article, which seems to get altered repeatedly. The truth is what is called for here. Paul Bragg was a very important early influence for me, and I took no pleasure in writing my essay. Sustaining a lie does nobody any good, except those who profit from the lies.

Wade Frazier

Ah! The Wade Frazier. Does your web site have an expose on any other individuals in the health movement?

A fairly well written article on Paul Bragg, but for the rest of the site??? You could always do as I have done, and duplicate your Bragg article here. With a few changes it should fly quite well. -- John Gohde 12:28, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi John:

I am not neutral on Bragg, so I am not very qualified to write a Wikipedia article about him (for the same reason, I would not write a Wikipedia article about my former partner Dennis Lee, or Brian O'Leary, Steven Greer and others in my circles, and any of my writings about alternative energy would run afoul of Wikipedia's "original research" policy). I think my article could be one of the links from the article (at the end, in the "external links"). Exposing individuals is not really what I want to do, but Wikipedia links to my writings about certain individuals such as Smedley Butler ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler ) and Ralph McGehee ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_McGehee ), but I do not really "expose" them; I do something more like praise them (and again, those have been linked at the "external links"). I take iconoclastic looks at icons such as George Washington ( http://www.ahealedplanet.net/america.htm#blueprint ), Christopher Columbus ( http://www.ahealedplanet.net/columbus.htm ), Junípero Serra ( http://www.ahealedplanet.net/lies.htm#serra ) and Mother Teresa ( http://www.ahealedplanet.net/racket.htm ), but again, I should not be the person writing the Wikipedia articles about them. I am contacting various alternative health organizations about the Bragg revelations, however. I expose the people who sold their souls to the fluoridation interests ( http://www.ahealedplanet.net/fluoride.htm#conflict ), but again, am not the person to write a Wikipedia article on any of those subjects, due to my "advocacy." I respect that limitation at Wikipedia.

Best,

Wade

I just updated my own article on Paul Bragg. Turned out to be a rather simple fix. But, it never really was very historical to begin with. As far as the original research policy goes, it is up to them to bring it up. I got away with it on quite a few articles. -- John Gohde 02:06, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Bragg is really not a very important player in the wellness movement. The only reason he shows up at all, was his early influence on Jack LaLanne. It is nice that the Bragg company is making money. And, that Paul Bragg lied as much as possible in order to make as much money as possible. Personally, I don't fast. I have no need to. I certainly don't follow any of Bragg's dietary and natural hygiene advice. There is no need to continuously beat up on the guy. He did make it to the age of 81, after all.

His propensity to lie probably explains why he stole one of John Harvey Kellogg's quotes and passed it along as one of his own. Paul's lying establishes the fact that Kellogg did in fact influence him. Paul also illustrates why it is good advice never to base a health program on the apparent success of a single individual. Health programs should always be based upon scientific research, rather than on individuals like Paul Bragg. Nothing new here, in that regard. -- John Gohde 17:56, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The article needs updating

This article seriously needs to be rewritten in a neutral tone - the disputed date of birth should be mentioned, along with other disputed details of Paul's life, but more emphasis should be put on what Paul accomplished in his life, and the legacy that he left. Malachi456 04:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC) You don't have to be a biological child to consider them your daughter, they had a father daughter relationship, this is ridiculous. The only people who know exactly what they did when and where is the person who did it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.6.220 (talk) 11:58, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

OK Malachi...

I nominate you to do just that.

sparky37

I have added more information to my essay

I added an image of Paul's recently obtained public domain application for a social security number, here:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/bragg.htm#ssn

and I added information from his birth announcement as well as his death certificate. I currently do not plan to add more to that essay. I believe that there is a heavy burden of proof for anybody who makes the case that Paul Bragg DID NOT lie about his age. Patricia could make some interesting public statements in response to these scandalous revelations, and I believe that many would like to hear them.

Paul’s great longevity was the principal credential that supported his self-promoted “life extension” expertise, and when we consider the instances of the phantom family homestead, the phantom sister, the phantom case of TB and rehabilitation in Switzerland, it is legitimate to suspect that Bragg was lying every time he wrote or said anything, unless there is independent evidence to the contrary. Lying about his age was bad enough, but invoking the false ancestry of Braxton Bragg, the fake Olympic wrestling stints, the highly doubtful World War I war stories and other tales takes it far over the top. Paul bragging in 1913 he could defeat all comers in wrestling match, and boasting that he had $1,000 to back it up (money he very likely did not have to wager), imparts the idea that he began telling his tall tales from a young age. At this point, I think the case can be made that he was a habitual liar. I will be contacting alternative health organizations about this situation.

User:wadefrazier 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Why did Paul Bragg...

use "PH.D" after his name in all his more recent books? Is there any evidence he earned this title? Like in "Dr." Norman W. Walker, I find it odd that the source of this presumed scholastic achievement is never mentioned in any of his books that I have found.

In an Oakland (CA) Tribune newspaper article shortly before his 1976 death, he did "claim" Doctorates in both Biochemistry & Nutrition, but, again, no mention of where they were obtained.

Earlier, in the 8/24/1969 issue of The Sunday Star Bulletin & Advertiser, he claimed both a Doctor of Naturopathy (N.D.) & a D.Ph.T., (Doctor of Physiotherapy)"from New York University in the 1900s."

Not to mention also having been "a practicing osteopath". (Honolulu Star Bulletin 5/6/1975).

And all pretty vague...

- Not mentioning how academic credentials are obtained, is not evidence for them not existing. This point is bordering on an exposee style.

PHD's? NDs? if you wanted to find out more about this, the first step would be to find out when degrees in these subjects were first offered, and where. Remember though that an alternative education is not necesarily less valid. For example, a "Dr." meaning PHD is biology is not the same as "Dr." meaning MD - but that doesn't mean the former isn't allowed to use his credential! Especially in emerging and specialty fields, a PHD may be very alternative to what you expect, say from a State U. But... that doesn't mean the person has not gone to the highest education available in his field. Consider the example of Alternative Medicide degrees, certain church degrees, and higher ed in the Orthodox Jewish or Buddist communities - they may be PhD's, but not from "acreditied institutions" either. That alone doesn't make the education invalid, or call into question it's existance.

sparky37

I'm not qualified...

To write a neutral article about Paul Bragg. In fact the more you find out about him, the less neutral you become. If Paul has propagated a lot of lies about himself, it becomes quite hard to separate the fact from the fiction, which would have to be done if a factual article was to be written. Malachi456 22:00, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is very difficult...

to write a factual Bragg Wikipeda page, as both Paul & Patricia have "claimed" the most convuluted stories of their backgrounds of any two people I've ever run across.

I've put forth Paul Bragg's background both on the Wikipedia page & the Talk Pages as best I could, & Wade Frazier has put much of that info together into an essay, & most importantly, documented it, at his website.

As to the elusive Patricia, both court records & newspaper articles of the time document that she became the ex-wife of Paul's son, Robert, in 1956.

A snippet from the 12/23/1955 issue of The Stars & Stripes, the newspaper for overseas military personnel which published interesting news items from "back home" & covered the Robert/Patricia Bragg divorce trial:

"Los Angeles, Dec. 22 (INS) ....

"She and Robert were married in 1952 and parted last August 11." ....

I have already stated Patricia Pendleton Bragg's birth parents as Harry & Nettie Pendleton in an archived posting.

From Nettie Coward Deacon Pendleton's obituary in the Oakland [CA] Tribune of July 30,1964:

"She was the widow of Harry Clay Pendleton, builder and real estate investor who died three years ago."

and the

"beloved mother of Patricia Pendleton Bragg, Herbert Coward Deacon and Harry C. Pendleton, Jr."----

Herbert (b: 3/17/1919) being from Nettie's first marriage circa 1917 to Andrew Deacon, and Patricia (b: 4/29/1929) & Harry, Jr. (b: 6/30/1930; d: 6/22/1993) from her second marriage to Harry, Sr.

Additionally, Patricia Bragg, through her attorney, Stewart W. Lenz, filed a "Petition For Corrected Judgment...Of Preliminary Distribution With Respect To After Discovered Property" on 12/11/1998 in the Estate of Harry C. Pendleton, Decedent. (Alameda County, CA Superior Court Case No. 153571).

In said Petition, she alleged, under penalty of perjury of the laws of the State of California, the following:

"3. Petitioner inherited said Real Property from her father, the Decedent HARRY C. PENDLETON by Judgment of Preliminary Distribution...on September 7, 1962...." (Page 2, lines 3 thru 7)

This document was signed at "Santa Barbara, California" by Patricia Bragg as Petitioner, the signature being identical to the one(s) appearing in the Bragg books. And her own attorney's service of the Notice of Hearing of the Petition (filed with the Court on 12/14/1998) was addressed to "Patricia Bragg, 7360 Hollister Ave., Santa Barbara, CA 93117", which was the address of the Bragg company offices.

(The original documents are a public record & currently available for viewing at the Alameda County Clerk's Office at Oakland,CA)

Clearly, there existed no "father/daughter" relationship between Paul & Patricia Bragg, & therefore an encyclopedia-type website should not indicate that there was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.54.97.187 (talk) 21:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is very difficult to write professional quality articles for some people, because they find whining on the talk pages so much easier. And, so it goes. -- John Gohde 22:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I have corrected the designation...

of Patricia Bragg on PB's Wikipedia page from "daughter" to "former daughter-in-law".

Although PB claimed to have had "five" children in at least one of his books & a couple of his Honolulu newspaper interviews, the only three that I've been able to determine existed were "Lorraine", "Neva Pauline", aka "Polly", & "Robert Elton" with his former wife, Neva Parnin Bragg. His Miami Herald obituary only referred to "a son Robert" & "two daughters" (unnamed). Since Patricia Bragg was quoted in this article, I assume she was likely the source of this information.

In the end, all members of Paul Bragg's original immediate family outlived him.

Neva Pauline Bragg Schulz, daughter, died in 1980 at age 61; Neva Bragg Busch,ex-wife, died at age 91 in 1988; Robert, son, died in 1993 at age 71; and the last member, Lorraine Bragg Gefell, daughter, died in 2004 at age 84. All were residents of California.

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.54.97.187 (talk) 19:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 

Wade Frazier is an alternative health practitioner/educator/conspiracy theorist. I don't want to tear anybody up -we are hear to work together - but this kind of exposee might just as easily have been written about him. This article is one sided, and may be motivated. This kind of information would typically find it's place in a "controversy" section on Wikipedia, not consist in the entire article. Besides this, the tone is wrong. Exposee is not an encyclopedia article.

I was asked some months ago if I wanted to respond to the above observation about me, and I declined. Many people are gunning for me in cyberspace (I even have my very own stalker ( http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/02/353778.shtml#251272 )), and I do not like tangling with them because I have never found anything productive about those interactions, other than realizing how pointless they were. It took me years to finally understand how fruitless those encounters were.

However, I would like to state this: I have never made any contributions to the Wikipedia article on Paul Bragg, but have only contributed to this talk page. There are far more important worldly issues than Paul Bragg fabricating his life’s story in order to enhance his image as a health guru, particularly these days. My Bragg essay speaks for itself,

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/bragg.htm

and trying to make the Bragg Wikipedia article somehow about me is missing the point and can be considered a disinformation tactic, although the above observation about me is probably well-intended, if inaccurate. I am only the messenger. I have had far more significant issues with Wikipedia than the above post:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/wikimass.htm

If somebody wants to make the Bragg article less an “exposé” than a scholarly rendition of Paul’s biography, they are welcome to have at it. This is Wikipedia, after all. But Paul’s innumerable fabrications about his past, particularly lying about his age, deserve prominent treatment in any rendition of his biography. It is difficult to imagine a more damning indictment of a self-proclaimed “life-extension specialist” than the fact that he lied about his age. That kind of charlatanry is on par with posing as an MD but never having attended medical school, passing one’s self off a lawyer but never having attended law school, or proclaiming one’s self to be a war hero but never having seen battle. I was one of Paul’s “patients,” and although the harm he did to me was minor, and I believe was outweighed by the positive messages that he promoted, discovering his lies was far from a pleasant experience. I discovered long ago that personal integrity is the world’s scarcest commodity:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/energy1.htm#burn

and the revelations about the Braggs (about both Paul and Patricia) only served to reinforce what I learned at great personal cost. Caveat Emptor.

Wade Frazier —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wadefrazier (talk • contribs) 17:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Bold text== A little more Bragg information==

Some more documentation on Paul and Patricia has come into my hands. Paul began making the news as early as 1910, with his strange involvement in resolving a jewelry theft:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/bragg.htm#_edn17

There is no doubt that Patricia was not Paul's daughter. Her birth certificate has been obtained, as well as a filing she made regarding her claims on her real father's estate.

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/bragg.htm#_edn22

There are also problems with the academic credentials that Patricia and Paul have claimed, and other parts of Patricia's story that does not add up, like her claim of boarding at a school that she only lived eight blocks from (Miss Wallace's School in Piedmont, where Patricia was raised).

http://www.naturalfoodsmerchandiser.com/ASP/articleDisplay.asp?strArticleId=2062&strSite=NFMSITE&Screen=ARTICLEARCHIVE

but I do not have the inclination to go there in my essay just now.

Suffice it to say that the Bragg tales are very strange.

Wade Frazier —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wadefrazier (talk • contribs) 15:46, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

For Those Interested...

there is now a Patricia Bragg Wikipedia page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.54.97.188 (talk) 16:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

The article needs some proof

Is there any reliable source about Paul Bragg's age and death cause? What about some official American biographical dictionaries? "Although Paul Chappius Bragg claimed to have been born in Virginia in 1881, and the son of a farmer, public documentation shows rather that he was born in Batesville, Indiana on February 6, 1895 to Robert Elton Bragg, a printer, and Caroline Josephine Chappius Bragg." "He is believed to have died from a heart attack brought on by complications following a surfing accident. (Also Ref. State of Florida Death Certificate File No. 76-0846ll, Registrar's No. 15075, signed by Seymour B. London, M.D.)." A link to all this "public documentation", please. 85.249.167.223 (talk) 19:07, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

RfC: Reliable sources needed

The article refers to some kind of "public documentation" but doesn't provide any links or another information about it's sources. 85.249.167.223 (talk) 21:23, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Here are some documents in the public domain

Social Security Application

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/braggssn.jpg

Draft Card

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/braggdft.jpg

Census Records:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/braggcn1.jpg

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/braggcn2.jpg

And I refer to many others in my essay (see the footnotes):

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/bragg.htm

I have not contributed to the Bragg essay and do not plan to, but the documents are out there. I have copies of the documents that I cite in my essay, but I only reproduced those without copyright issues. I not believe that any of the public documents that I cite can be linked to, as far as them being available on the Internet by the issuing agency, because they were discovered the old-fashioned way, by digging in archives, using the mail and telephone, etc. I do cite where to find those documents, which is usually considered acceptable scholarship.

Wade Frazier —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wadefrazier (talk • contribs) 4:45, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

What about some official biographical dictionaries, "Who is Who" and suchlike?85.249.167.223 (talk) 12:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

You wanted "public documentation". You got "public documentation". Why don't YOU go fishing for "Who's Who's" & "what's what's" & come back to us with your findings, including, but not limited to "public documentation" backing it all up. Sounds like A Plan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.54.97.150 (talk) 16:50, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Calm down, I can't do it: I don't live in the US, so I physically don't have access to local American archives, books and stuff. I've searched online but found nothing of interest. But the article in it's present condition is too ambiguous and incomplete for such a notable person. Bragg still has many followers worldwide.

This is an encyclopedia, the results of somebody's private investigation aren't sufficient for an encyclopedical article, first they should be checked by many and many experts. You've put so much effort into your investigation, why don't you make the results published in a newspaper or magazine? If the artcile will get a sufficient attention, Bragg's corporation won't be able to ignore the issue anymore and will be forced to make some statements to shed the light on Paul Bragg's biography.85.249.167.223 (talk) 19:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Just a suggestion to calm your obsession. Why don't you email the Library of Congress in Washington D.C. If there's anything to tell, I'm sure they will be very helpful. BTW, you might note in their own on-line book catalog, they have Paul Bragg's date of birth & death as 1895-1976. Argue with them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.54.97.187 (talk) 03:38, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'll try it out.85.249.167.223 (talk) 11:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, they really denominated his date of birth as 1895. Strange. I've read Bragg's books in translation, and in the translator's foreword it was stated that Bragg drowned in December 1976 at the age of 95, covered by the giant wave while he was surfing. It was also stated that he was highly popular in English-speaking countries, consulted celebrities, statesmen, crowned heads and Olympic champions, and that at the age of 85 he outperformed young students in a pedestrian passage in the Death Valley. I was quite astonished that there is so little information about him in the English segment of the Web, not even a scandal around him lying about his biography. Is he really so little-known in the US?

P.S. And come down a peg, please. I respect your efforts and all, but this is an encyclopedia, not a place where you can just publish the results of somebody's private investigations and claim that they are true, if you write something here you should be ready to provide some proofs for you statements.85.249.167.223 (talk) 20:03, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Cause of death

Cause of Paul Bragg's Death Per the Miami-Dade Medical Examiner's public records:

"Ventricular Tachycardia and Fibrillation due to Coronary Occulsion."

There's no question he died of a heart attack on 12/7/1976 in Florida. Whether a "surfing accident" preceded his death, however, is questionable. 65.55.67.225 (talk) 09:28, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

The only Hawaiian mention found so far of the drowning incident was when the Honolulu Advertiser reported his death, and stated, "In July, Mr. Bragg was pulled unconscious from the water off Ft. DeRussey and survived after being given cardio-pulmonary massage by a nurse on the scene." However, two researchers, including a Hawaii state librarian, have thoroughly combed the record for July 1976 for the Honolulu Advertiser and found nothing about Bragg’s drowning incident. With the numerous articles about Bragg when he was playing the athletic nonagenarian, and regular stories about drownings and similar incidents in the day’s media, and with all the other fabrications in the Bragg record, it is legitimate to question the veracity of the drowning incident until there is contemporaneous evidence of it. User:wadefrazier 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm honestly shocked

I live in Russia, and Bragg's works have gained popularity here back at the times of the Soviet Union and to this day he has a lot of followers in the former Soviet Union who aren't even aware about this controversy. As I've said before, I have found nothing about his achievements or supposed popularity, which are unquestioned by his followers outside of the US. The image of a wourldwide popular health guru created by his books is in such a striking contrast with an information vaccuum in English Internet, it's truly shocking. As much as I've found, one of the few people who actually met Bragg is Jack LaLanne, who, unlike Bragg, wasn't a subject of controversy and is still alive and brisk at his 95. I've read the archive and know that somebody tried to contact Patricia Bragg and Bragg's company and haven't got an answer, and somebody else tried to contact LaLanne via email with no apparent results. The email addresses I've found on his site all apparently belong to his company, so the question about Bragg might've not reach him at all. The best way to contact him seems to be via the comments section of his blog: http://www.jacklalanne.com/blog/ I'd write a comment myself, but I think it would be much more persuasive if it will be done by somebody more familiar with both healthy lifestyle movement and English language than myself. Until February he is going to be at home recovering from a surgery, so now seems to be the best time to ask him to help fill this gap in the healthy lifestyle movement's history. Arctifox (talk) 17:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Not sure WHY you consider the "information vacuum" on the "English internet" re Paul Bragg to be "shocking". There are photocopies there of Bragg listed in the 1900 & 1910 US Census Records, Bragg's 1917 WWI Draft Registration Card (please note, completed & signed by him) & Bragg's 1949 Application for a Social Security Number (again note, completed & signd by him). All in English. And YOUR only "evidence" of somehing or other are some translated books?? If you want to contact Jack LaLanne about some "gap", please do so & report back. 65.55.67.167 (talk) 17:56, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Bragg being superstar of the health movement is not just from the books, even this article mentions it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bragg#Some_of_his_achievements The Death Valley hike is claimed by Bragg himself in The Miracle of Fasting, page 18, "Death Valley Hike Prooved Salt Dangerous". Can be found on Google Books. To understand what I meant by "shocking" you'll have to compare Bragg's popularity outside English speaking world with it inside. The contrast is striking, and that's what I meant by "information vacuum". There are only few pages related to Paul C. Bragg I found in the English internet, and all of them are very obscure and doesn't count as reliable sources. All the pages stating that Bragg lied about his life are citing an article published on a very obscure and suspicious conspiracy theory site: http://www.ahealedplanet.net/bragg.htm I'll just quote the introduction to this site: "If you are interested in free energy, cancer cures that are harmless, cheap and effective, or how this planet might be healed and what some of the obstacles seem to be, you might find these pages of interest." The site that offers "harmless, cheap and effective" cancer cures is the last resource to accuse somebody of medical fraud. As for Jack Lalanne, to contact him just write the comment in the latest article in his blog. I tried to write it myself twice, but my English is lame so I couldn't come up with anything convincing. Arctifox (talk) 02:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I wrote the comment to Jack Lalanne. After about a week something happened and ALL comments disappeared. It appears they were lost during the site's reconstruction. Here is the proof: http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1346/lalanne.png http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3750/lalanne2.png I'm still not sure if the message was just lost with the others or was deleted deliberately. It has been pending for moderation for a week until this incident. This blog apparently takes quite a time to get a response, since in 2 days after I submitted my post a bunch of earlier posts appeared, with responses from site's admin. However, one of them was submitted later than mine, so my message must've also been viewed but was put on halt. It's a damn shame, since Jack Lalanne apparently knew both Paul and Patricia: http://bragg.com/about/lalanne_gospel.html UPDATE: The comment has reappeared, and is pending for moderation, so there is still hope. Arctifox (talk) 20:08, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Artifox: I read your email to Jack LaLanne & hope you get the response you wish. You will note, however, that the JackLaLanne.com website currently has a direct link to the current Paul Bragg Wikipedia article. Apparently,the LaLanne Group doesn't have any problem with its contents, else why would they do this? 65.55.67.202 (talk) 18:11, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Nope, the whole post with the comments was deleted and replaced with a more topical one. Anyway, where is that link? I can't find it. Arctifox (talk) 20:08, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to hear you got "deleted" Artifox---though not surprised. At least you tried. Oddly, the hyperlink between JL.com & PB-wikipedia seems to have disappeared also.65.55.67.209 (talk) 17:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe that wasn't coincidence. They may've just automatically add the wikilink without checking out the article's content back then. Anyway, I think my post was easier to ignore since I'm foreigner (I probably shouldn't have said that, but I couldn't think of a better way to explain my unfamiliarity with this controversy than just saying as it is, and the admins probably see my non-American IP anyway), and LaLanne has a lot of followers to answer to rather then bringing up this controversial subject in a response to some stranger from a place where he and his activities are all but unknown. I think if somebody from America, from his actual fans or audience, ask him about this, the chances of getting a reply (ANY reply at least) might be higher, especially if it will be several people. BTW, it appears Patricia has blog on Bragg.com too, but it has virtually no comments and each post comes with a disclaimer about premoderation. Wow. Arctifox (talk) 11:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

I present the documentary record. Go dig the documents up, if you want to challenge how genuine they may be. Disparaging my site is a poor way to deal with the evidence, and is one of many invalid responses to my work that I have seen over the years. Calling my work a “conspiracy theory” is an irrational canard that my critics have used for many years:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/critics.htm#conspiracy

Those documents that I published about Bragg are all publicly available for those who undertake a little effort. If you want to aspire to some credibility yourself, go do your homework. User:wadefrazier 24 2010 (UTC)

Bragg "People Magazine" Article now linked

Note that the 8/11/1975 People Magazine article on Mr. Bragg has now been linked to his Wikipedia page.

BTW, just for the record, Dr. Auguste Rollier, who PB claimed (allegedly) saved his life from TB in his Switzerland clinic, actually died on October 30, 1954 at age 80 (see Rollier obituary, British Medical Journal, 11/13/1954, on-line)not in 1914 at age 89 as Bragg also claimed in this article. I would venture to guess that PB never even met the guy, knowing so little about him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.179.98.46 (talk) 17:22, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Why was the circumstanes of Bragg's Death (& Its Aftermath) Removed?

It's all a "public record"---which is more than I can say for so much that passes for "Citations" on Wikipedia.

Since Bragg was a self-proclaimed longevity/health guru, both his correct age & cause of death should be stated. It may be "original research" (disgusting thing that might be), but since Florida is an "open state' as to "Coroner's Reports", it was not difficult to get such info directly from Miami/Dade County as to Bragg's actual demise. Any dummy could (& can) do it. But if Wikipedia feels that if something can't be traced back to The New York Times, it shouldn't be included---well, what can I say.

As to the matter of Bragg's estate, I thought the fact that Bragg owned NO interest at his death in the earlier (& subsequently dissolved) Live Food Products, Inc. nor the much later Bragg Live Food Products, Inc. (incorporated in CA, according to the website of the CA Secretary of State, on December 31, 1972) to be of interest. Since Paul Bragg was no longer associated by ownership with "his" company at death, I think this matter should be covered. (The complete Paul C. Bragg probate file currently resides in the bowels of the Riverside County Court Archives & is publicly accessible.)

173.228.71.191 (talk) 19:50, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Paul Bragg choked to death on a a fish bone in Florida. This was very well known in the Natural Hygeine movement immediately after it happened. it was quite the joke that he died of choking to death on a bone. Most of my natural heigine friends both in Fl;orida and across the ocuntry including Hawaii knew as some were with him at the time the incident occured. The records were deleted with a little bribery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.155.156.119 (talk) 22:00, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Since BACHOLE made a couple of comments

directly on the Paul Bragg Wikipedia page (?), I'll comment here.

First of all, it was Paul Bragg's UNCLE on his paternal side, who was also a "Paul Bragg", who was enumerated in the 1870 Census at age 1, NOT the Wikipedia subject. Please read more carefully.

Then, as to Mr. Bachole's amazement that Paul Bragg's mother was 7 years older than his father...what's so unusual about that? But to be more specific to the birth year/age of Caroline Chappius Bragg, she first is enumerated at age 1 in the 1860 US Census, then in the 1870 & 1880 Censuses as 10 & 20. Essentially the whole 1890 Federal Census was lost in a government building fire (in the 1950ties I believe) so what age was given for her there is unknown. However, in the 1900 Census, when the Bragg Family was living in Washington, D.C., Caroline Chappius, now Bragg, obviously started shaving several years off her age and/or giving her birth year as 1865, & continued this in the 1910, 1920 & 1930 Censuses. Whether she did this because she was somewhat older than her husband and/or for other reasons, is unknown.

Caroline Josephine Chappius Bragg died at Hermosa Beach Hospital, Los Angeles County, CA on January 10, 1934 from "diabetes" and a "brain abcess" per Los Angeles County, CA Death Cert. 1934/#85. Paul C. Bragg was named as "informant" on her death certificate as to personal details. She is buried in Forest Lawn Cemetery, Glendale, CA. 173.228.71.128 (talk) 03:41, 10 July 2011 (UTC )

Bragg's father, Robert Elton Bragg, remarried subsequent at an unknown date. He died at his home in Miami, FL on February 14, 1944 & was buried at Graceland Memorial Park, Miami, FL on February 16, 1944---on what would have been his 78th birthday. Dade County, FL Death Certificate No. 26313692; Informant: Mrs. Tyler Bragg, Wife 173.228.71.128 (talk) 01:29, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Burial info?

How come there's no reference to where Paul Bragg is buried? Is that also a topic of controversy / conflicting info, or is it simply unknown?

Strange that both his mother and father's causes of death, locations of death, and burial sites are stated in great detail, yet there's no info on PB himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.114.4.254 (talk) 21:57, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

The location of Paul Bragg's "cremains" are currently unknown. I guess you'd have to ask Patricia. According to his Florida D/Certificate, he was cremated by a Miami funeral home (Lithgow Funeral Centers) less than three days after he died. No currently known newspapers reporting his death back in 1976 made mention of any funeral or memorial service or "final disposition".173.228.71.128 (talk) 07:04, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

If Paul Bragg died of a surfing accident in Waikiki at age 96 as Patricia Pendleton ( real name on current Identification ) contends then why were his remains in Florida and why do several prominent natural hygienists claim they were with him at the dinner where he choked to death on the fish bone in North Palm Beach ,Florida in 1976 (when he was 81 years old)? His death location and circumstances were fabricated .

Patricia's current passport and driver's license are issued to Patricia Pendleton not Patricia Bragg. Please account for that.

Driver's License issued in Santa Barbara California.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.239.173.106 (talk) 23:41, 22 February 2015 (UTC) 

Not Sure Why Paul Bragg's Alleged Degree from the LA Osteopathic College of Physicians & Surgeons...

posting keeps getting removed, since it's the currently only instance I'm aware of that Bragg stated ANY bona fide educational institute in his education background in "the wellness field", whether in his publications or interviews, in over four decades. Although I would agree that "1970" is a little late in his game to have much believability, it still came from the horse's mouth so to speak. And thus, of some importance in his bio for better or worse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.71.128 (talk) 05:08, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Interesting History of " Live Food Products Co., a California corporation".

Having perused Paul Bragg's Probate File at the Riverside County Courthouse, Riverside, CA, sometime back (a public record), I was puzzled as to WHY the assets of his estate included NO interest in "his company" at his death on December 7, 1976 in Florida, USA, as legend seems to believe otherwise. Coupling some info from there & searching further into the Corporation's filings with the California Secretary of State, I much later found the following: (BTW, you can do the something of the same on-line, though I admittedly extended my search with them off-line also)

Paul Bragg first filed Articles of Incorporation for Live Food Products on April 6, 1951 with the CA Secretary of State. Its address at the original filing was 3607 W. Pacific Avenue, Burbank, CA.

In the early 1960ties, Paul Bragg made a gift of a 49% interest in his original Live Foods Products company to Patricia Bragg, retaining a 51% majority interest. A California Gift Tax was determined (State Controller's No. 54426), and the gift tax paid. This was the same company that was dissolved in 1971 (see below).

20 years later, on September 29, 1971, a "Certificate of Winding Up and Dissolution..." of the above company was filed with the CA Secretary of State (then Edmund G. "Jerry" Brown, Jr., CA's current Governor), with Paragraph FOURTH stating: "That said corporation's known assets have been distributed to the shareholders." So Paul Bragg's original "health food corporation" no longer existed over 5 years prior to his death.

A year & a half later, on December 2?, 1972(sorry, day partially unreadable), Articles of Incorporation of "Live Food Products, Inc." were filed with the CA Secretary of State by its new Board of Directors, consisting of three members/employees of a Los Angeles law firm. Then on April 6, 1973, a Certificate of Amendment of these Articles was filed, changing the venue of this corporation from (apparently)Los Angeles County to Orange County, CA. The most interesting part of this not-particularly-interesting-document is that Patricia Bragg signed it as "President" over three years before Paul Bragg's death, although it is commonly believed she "inherited" the company/his "health empire" at his death & carried on from there...at least that's what the current Wikipedia page seems to claim.

Apparently there were TWO different Live Food Products companies in Paul Bragg's lifetime, one he founded & was its President until circa 1971, and the second (& current)one he was not involved with. Which finally makes sense to me of the glaring omission of any shares of LFP, Inc. in his estate assets at his death. But reach your own conclusion.

BTW, Live Food Products, Inc.'s name was finally changed to "Bragg Live Food Products" with the CA Sec. of State on June 29, 2010 via a Certificate of Amendment to Articles of Incorporation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.177.253 (talk) 04:14, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Age and birthday may not be correct, as stated.

It appears that Bragg was born in 1895 and not 1881, and lived to be 81, not 95. This article should mention that this and other "factual" details are controversial. One such source is https://ahealedplanet.net/bragg.htm which provides copies of various official documents. 58.153.25.62 (talk) 11:37, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Paul Bragg's Official Birth Certificate...

unfortunately does not exist, primarily because the State of Indiana did not require their Counties to issue such until 1907, which of course gave Paul Bragg a lot of leeway in later creating his birth date. What Batesville, Indiana's county DID DO in lieu of such document was to enter a newborn child's name in a handwritten book/register, with personal info on the baby, parentage, father's employment, etc.---the type of information which would normally appear on later issued certificates. A copy of babies born in Batesville, Indiana from this "register" in the year 1895, showing Paul Bragg born to Robert Elton & Carrie Bragg there on February 6, 1895, exists on microfilm at the Batesville, Indiana Public Library. A librarian there found & scanned me a copy several years ago; likely other requests, if not overdone, would come back as my request did. Now, interestingly, although all the other info on Paul Bragg's background entered was clearly the same, his "birth name" was entered not as Paul C. Bragg nor as Paul Chappius or Paul Chappuis Bragg (he seemed to go back & forth on those two latter family spellings), but rather as "Paul J. Bragg"! Exactly when his well-known middle name/initial got substituted in for "J" is unknown.

The Batesvlle librarian also found a later newspaper article on Paul's father from November 1895, stating that Robert Elton Bragg had passed his civil service test & was offered a Government printing job for $5,000 a year, and that he could never make that kind of money in Batesville. And that's how the Bragg Family apparently ended up in our Nation's Capitol---surprise surprise---there was NO farm in Virginia in the family background, as later told by Paul. His paternal grandfather owned a flour milling company & his maternal grandfather owned a monument company, both in Greenfield, Indiana. Paul's father graduated from high school there & married Caroline/Carrie, also a former Greenfield resident, in Indianapolis, Indiana in the early 1890s, where Paul's elder brother, James Elton Bragg, was born, and the family later moved on to Batesville, Indiana circa 1893, where Paul was born. The third son, John Harrison Bragg, was born in Washington, D.C. a few years after their arrival there.2601:643:8101:F462:F899:7A2A:D736:99D0 (talk) 08:52, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

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Paul Bragg's Adult Adoption of Patricia

That Paul legally adopted Patricia Pendleton Bragg, as stated on his Wikipedia page, IS undoubtedly true, although I guess its source doesn't meet the current standards for inclusion on that page. In the Paul C. Bragg Probate File (Riverside County, CA Superior Court #39047) is an unsigned document, for Patricia's signature & notarization, likely prepared by the estate's attorney, setting forth that information. Likely also that the adoption was done in a large part for California Inheritance Tax savings (which tax California no longer has as of 1982) since "children" had the lowest percentage rate back in the day, & a "stranger", which would have been Patricia's legal standing sans an (adult) adoption, had the highest. In the end, undoubtedly based on submitting Court adoption papers since her birth certificate never was changed with the State reflecting the parental change, she was assessed & paid the lowest tax rate on her inheritance from Paul. 2601:643:8101:F462:7D0F:C86A:83C8:A228 (talk) 18:38, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

St. Louis Estes Lawsuit Against Paul C. Bragg For Copyright Infringement.

I really don't know the details of this 1930 lawsuit. Just the cited article from the San Francisco Chronicle archives. I found the Court records on this matter are kept in US Government offices in Redwood City, California (I didn't find any follow-up newspaper articles). From a short telephone (or perhaps email, been a long while) conversation with Redwood City, I found little further on the outcome ---mostly the name of the Oakland, CA attorney Bragg hired to represent him. Don't recall his name and I'm sure he's long dead. Someone interested would probably have to make a trip to the Redwood City archives to find out who won & who lost. 2001:558:6045:23:74FE:DCEF:4D85:D026 (talk) 04:33, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Jack Lalanne's Oft-Told Story of Paul Bragg "Saving His Life"...

is questionable (I see it's again mentioned on Bragg's Wikipedia page). Bragg first brought his 7-night "health tours" to the "Oakland [CA] Women's City Club" auditorium in October of 1930 (possibly in conjunction with his appearance in the St. Louis Estes/Bragg copyright lawsuit, see above). However, research in the newspaper archives of the sports pages of the "Berkeley [the city where the LaLanne Family lived from 1928 to 1940] Daily Gazette" from 1928 (the Oakland Women's City Club was first dedicated & opened to the public in September of that year) thru 1930 shows Jack LaLanne was involved in the Berkeley, California YMCA wrestling & 12# shot put meets---in the 130-139# weight class in both, in what would have been at age 15---and local boys' football & baseball teams, starting almost a year prior to Bragg first "taking the stage" in Oakland. "His numbers" in his story don't add up, and since interviews I can find prior to those when he went to Los Angeles circa 1958-1959 for his TV show going national make no mention of a Paul Bragg being involved in LaLanne's early sports and/or health life, I suspect that this tale was more a publicity gambit for the tv shows each opened almost simultaneously in the LA media market in those years.2001:558:6045:23:74FE:DCEF:4D85:D026 (talk) 17:27, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Paul Bragg's Death on December 7, 1976...

Although there are an awful lot of rumors out there regarding this whole story, what I found from newspaper clippings, emails, & personally talking (via telephone) with a close Bragg family member was that Bragg was in Miami, Florida that day for a "health show", and that he suffered a stroke early that morning in his hotel room--- which was why the ambulance was called---& he was taken to the hospital. He died of a subsequent heart attack at that Miami hospital in the very early afternoon of that day, per his Florida death certificate. Since he died in the hospital under physician care, I assume that was why there was NO autopsy, but the Dade County Coroner had to get minimally involved since Bragg wasn't a resident of the State of Florida, & he had to sign off on deaths of non-residents in his county. So Paul Bragg's file exists there.

As to the earlier "water accident" that allegedly caused Bragg's later Florida death, that's still pretty "murky" (no pun intended). Although neither daily Honolulu newspaper made mention of any such "accident" when it happened (supposedly several months prior to 1976 Bragg's death), on October 17, 1976, both newspapers, in identical words, mentioned the awarding of something called "Good Samaritan" awards, or some such title, one to a registered nurse at the local navy hospital who pulled Paul Bragg from the water and unto a raft, thus saving his life, and the other to two men who saved a young child they saw drowning in a swimming pool. Frankly, there were little further details on this Bragg story to tell what exactly happened with him. And because on another on-line forum, a poster called "Mike" claimed to have been the lifeguard on duty that day & that there was no accident, but that Paul Bragg had what sounded to me like a garden-variety heart attack while swimming from shore to the raft, and he was alive when the ambulance took him to the hospital.2001:558:6045:23:74FE:DCEF:4D85:D026 (talk) 22:15, 24 December 2018 (UTC)