Talk:Pablo Escobar/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

untitled

Pablo Escobar je zloglasni kriminalec, ki je tihotapil velike kolicine mamil (kokain) z njim je sodeloval Nevio Lukanovic zloglasniplaceni morilec ki je povezan z 250 umori— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:261:73c:c000:68f5:d4a:c4f5:624a (talk) 19:30, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Google translate translates this as: "Pablo Escobar is a notorious criminal who smuggled large quantities of drugs (cocaine) with whom Nevio Lukanovic, a notorious assassin linked to 250 murders, collaborated".
SSSB (talk) 09:01, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Errors and vandalism

Hi!

There are many long-standing errors and/or vandalisms in this article. Maybe someone with knowledge and interest could fix them?

Thanks. Saintrain (talk) 21:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Pop Culture

Someone may wish to add that Tom Clancy's Clear and Present Danger character, Ernesto Escobedo, is based on Pablo Escobar. That book was written ages ago, but I remember reading several reviews which pointed this out back when the book came out. The character does indeed closely resemble this article. I'll not add it myself, but if anyone is interested in researching that further, feel free to do so. Also, I made some minor spelling/grammar corrections today. Feel free to change that too. :) MagnoliaSouth ^(talk) 13:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Gangster-terrorist not gangster and terrorist

here's another cancerous,egomaniacal,violent,mentally ill skell of a human being that will go down in history with more applause and admiration than criticism and scorn because of the gangster obsessed and mafia infatuated cultures in which we live in and around.this man wasn't a terrorist because he ordered the bombing of an airliner in mid flight or ordered hundreds of explosions throughout columbia or ordered the assassination and attempted assassinations of elected officials and police officers,he was a terrorist because first and foremost he was a lowlife gangster who provoked fear and intimidation in others through acts of violence in order to profit from that fear and intimidation.stop glorifying this type of human garbage because we all suffer because of it whether you know it or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.29.190.51 (talk) 17:41, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Like it says at the top of the page, this is one controversial man and we ought to keep a cool head. I do not find this comment cool-headed, nor do I see it removed. --Arthur Borges (talk) 07:20, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Might be helpful

The History Channel is doing an in depth documentary on Pablo. Might be useful for info to add to the article. Lots42 (talk) 01:09, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

What would have Escobar become if he had not been a drug-lord

What would he have been? Would he even have been this famous?

what kind of stupid question is this? he's famous for being a criminal; of course he wouldn't have been as famous if he wasn't a drug lord —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.74.8.173 (talk) 17:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Narco-soccer

Any thought about adding a section about Escobar's involvement with Colombia's Athletico National soccer team? He used the team to launder drug profits and some say to even move drugs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.156.110.102 (talk) 14:47, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

was his net worth $9 billion at his height or $25 billion?...both are noted...big difference —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.160.149 (talk) 03:22, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Who is "Sebastian"?

There is one point in the article that says, "Sebastian studied industrial design and architecture." There is no other reference, whatsoever, on Sebastian and this sentence shows up unexpectedly in what appears to be an inappropriate place. Is Sebastian a nickname or alternate name for Gustavo Escobar? I've added the clarify template. MagnoliaSouth ^(talk) 14:13, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Sebastian is his son. 46.208.42.237 (talk) 20:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Issue of National debt payment

The opening paragraph of his article states; "He attempted to enter Colombian politics, even offering to pay off the nation's US $10 billion national debt". I believe it should be noted that he didn't offer to pay the national debt as a ploy to get into politics. Instead, it is believed that he offered to pay off the country's debt after he fled to Panama - after his men killed Rodrigo Lara Bonilla, the then Minister of Justice, and the Colombian authorities attempted to go after him. After he was visited by former president Alfonso López, the speculation was that they'd struck a deal; that Escobar would pay off the national debt in an exchange for not being for prosecuted for his crimes. That said, Escobar's own son, Sebastian, claims that the whole thing is a complete myth. It is discussed around the 20 minute mark of this documentary... http://www.channel4.com/programmes/my-father-pablo-escobar/4od ...I'm not sure how the paragraph should changed, but I think the statement "even offering to pay off the nation's US $10 billion national debt" should at least be qualified.

46.208.42.237 (talk) 20:42, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

true enough, he had already won a successful entry into colombian politics long before they decided to go after him for the multiple assassinations, and it was after *that* when he offered to pay the debt. but long before that he won a seat in colombian congress. 74.102.158.68 (talk) 19:28, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Plagiarism

A fair amount of this text is taken, word for word, from reference 10 - the daily Record article. 24.92.181.168 (talk) 05:23, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

WAS HE THE RICHEST DRUG DEALER IN THE WHOLE WORLD?.AND WHAT WAS HIS TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.223.84.34 (talk) 06:42, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Only corpse pics of Escobar?

why there is "especially" used only photos of Escobar's corpse? Is there any intention to describe him like this? I think he has too many "normal" pics whic is taken when e was alive.please just try to be polite.--88.255.183.34 (talk) 09:39, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

This article reads like it's about a television character

It reads like the bio of a fictional character, not a real human being. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.195.162.227 (talk) 08:51, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Escobar's picture in this article

The main picture in this article is not of Pablo Escobar. It belongs to a series called "Pablo Escobar, el Patrón del Mal", and depicts actor Andrés Parra's impersonation of the druglord. Please revise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.111.216.58 (talk) 19:28, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

+1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guidofd (talk • contribs) 21:43, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Numbers aren't coherent

In the section "Criminal Career", in the first paragraph, it says that "At the height of its power, the Medellín drug cartel was smuggling fifteen tons of cocaine a year"

Fifteen tons a year. Then, 3 paragraphs later :

" At the peak of his power in the mid-1980s, he was shipping as much as eleven tons per flight in jetliners to the United States (the biggest load shipped by Pablo was 23,000 kg mixed with fish paste and shipped via boat, as confirmed by his brother in the book Escobar)."

11 to 23 tons per flight. Check your sources, please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.172.97.119 (talk) 17:32, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Relation to Griselda Blancho

Think at the every least, this article should clarify Escobar's relation to Blancho or make clear that Escobar was sort of a small time guy when Griselda Blancho was doing her thing in Miami. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.143.139 (talk) 03:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Lead image?

I don't understand why this article doesn't have a quality portrait of Pablo. Given how central he is to Colombian politics and culture in the last 40 years, the extensive body of popular media devoted to telling his story, and that he pretty much embodies the archetype of the Latin American drug kingpin, it seems that in a rational universe we would be able to find for the infobox a reliably sourced photograph of him at his peak... this article absolutely needs one. I understand there have been some issues with copyright infringement for previously uploaded Pablo pics, so I'm wondering what I can do to help provide a reliable image. I see plenty of sources for images of Pablo's face all over the Internet - he's quite recognizable - and I wonder if I am missing something. Is there a reason this article is not using any of these photos? What about the classic smiling mugshot? Surely one of them must be free to the public, for use in wp. I'd really like to improve this article with at least an introductory image (and maybe more), but I'm hesitant to make changes that have been controversial in the past without knowing more, so please let me know what I can do to help! PJsg1011 (talk) 04:35, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

"Height of Power" section has many problems & is missing citations

The "Height of Power" section consists of mostly unsubstantiated claims, many of which portray Escobar in a favorable light. For example "Escobar was a hero to many in Medellín (especially the poor people)" and "he was a natural at public relations and he worked to create goodwill among the poor people of Colombia."

Contrary to the claim that he was a hero, at the height of his power Escobar committed acts of "narcoterrorism" including the bombing of a plane (with 130+ civilians on-board) and kidnappings and "disappearances" of innocent, prominent Colombian civilians.

This section either needs to be resolved to reflect a more balanced and fact-based portrayal of Escobar's criminal life, or needs to be removed.

18:12, 8 December 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seankuus (talk • contribs)

Grand Theft auto

I think this is a USA/common law specific term that should not be used when speaking about Latin American countries. The Colombian legal term for this is simply "hurto de automotores" or Motor vehicle theft, the distinction between "grand and petty" not being used. Soparamens (talk) 23:28, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Misuse of the word "eponymous"

In the Film section of Popular depictions, an editor wrote "Killing Pablo (2011), in development for several years and directed by Joe Carnahan, is based on Mark Bowden's eponymous 2001 book," clearly missing the meaning of the word "eponymous," using it instead as a synonym of the phrase "of the same name." This seems to be extremely common now on Wikipedia.

I could be wrong though, Mark Bowden's book about killing Pablo Escobar could very well be called "Mark Bowden." Figuring that to be highly unlikely though, I fixed it.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.156.136.229 (talk) 14:55, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Eponymous would mean it was named after him. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 18:59, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Total Profits

There's a large disrepency between this article and the article on the Medellin Cartel regarding the amount of money they were making / worth. The Escobar article claims they were making $30 billion annually, where as the Medellin article claims they were worth $28 billion in total. I'm more inclined to believe the latter, but don't have the time to check. Just a heads up

Sjkebab (talk) 05:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I heard from a Maxim or Stuff magazine...he liked to pay beauty queens to eat huge bug's for his amusement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.113.41 (talk) 08:09, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Forbes. In the beginning of the article it says "[...]and became so wealthy from the drug trade that in 1989 Forbes magazine listed him as the seventh richest man in the world." While under Height of Power it says "In 1989, at the height of his empire's power, Forbes magazine estimated Escobar to be the third-richest man in the world with a personal wealth of close to $25 billion [...]". Seventh or third? --Fiwel (talk) 16:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

There is an LA Times article of 1989 regarding the list. They only say that he was worth $3 billion, but it is clear that he was not on the top ten. http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-10/business/fi-2595_1_richest-people — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.154.82.130 (talk) 23:37, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

At all events, Mr. Escobar entered into negotiations to pay off the national debt to the IMF before the 1985 assault on the Supreme Court. They were talking about USD 21 billion cash. --Arthur Borges (talk) 07:29, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

His son claims this is not true. In the documentary "Sins of my Father", he says he asked his father, Pablo, and he was told this was not true. He did not offer to pay off the national debt. The rumor started when a former President of Colombia visited him and the press speculated about it.jlcoving (talk) 21:49, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

His net worth is overated!

There is an Forbes article of 1987. They said under $2 billion. http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2015/09/15/watching-netflixs-narcos-heres-pablo-escobar-in-forbes-first-ever-billionaire-issue-in-1987/#4366174d79e9

In other article of Forbes: 1988 3$billion, 1989 3$billion,1990 3$ billion, 1991 2-3$ billion, 1992 2$ billion, 1993 1$ billion,

It is believed that he made 22 billion annually. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChrisRoad (talk • contribs) 00:03, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

The medellin revenue is overrated!!! Medellin cartel revenue (they sold cocaine wholesale, not retail) was 8$ billion. http://wumunc.com/background-guides/medellin.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.137.169.75 (talk) 14:46, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  21:09, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Relatives

I bet his relatives are reading this article and thinking, "Thanks, assholes."

There's a reason why they changed their names. Perhaps if they knew that anyone would be able to read Wikipedia and find out what their new identities were, they wouldn't have even bothered.

According to a recent article linked to the New York Times online, his son is a successful architect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.196.62.42 (talk) 20:41, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

this made me laugh  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.14.178.1 (talk) 14:01, 18 October 2015 (UTC) 

Successful was not the best word

Changed the part where it said "rich and successful criminal" to just "rich criminal"... To write "a successful criminal" may be misleading, being a criminal is not something to be evaluated with standards tha define a "successful or failed" criminal... Wikipedia should not endorse any criminal or any criminal act with qualifiers... — Preceding unsigned comment added by MLearry (talk • contribs) 12:41, 14 October 2012 (UTC) It could be added that "Shot to death on a rooftop attempting an escape from a very large coalition of local and federal police forces at age 44" cannot be called successful.

Well, "success" is an objective term, not one of moral approbation. Thus Al Capone and Escobar were successful in material terms until their downfall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.196.62.42 (talk) 20:44, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 March 2017

movie Escobar - Paradise Lost (2014) 175.157.220.180 (talk) 17:52, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:49, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Ancestry

Pablo Escobar Gaviria is of Basque descent.Please add in Category:Colombian people of Basque descent Gaviria and Echeverri are Surnames of basque origin — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiPrint (talk • contribs) 22:08, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

THE KILLINGS OF SBONDO

Well, It all happened on a faitfull afternoon on Saunday the 10th of June!

He was walking down a hill untill suddenly he got attacked by someone (Dan). He gotinto a fistfight and took out his AR by accident. He shot his in the leg by accident ;(. Dan then proceeded to take out his shotgun and shot him in the face. the scene was brutal!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sbondo1234 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Moving "Personal life" section above "Death" section.

I'm just putting it here before I get yelled at. It makes more chronological and encyclopedic sense, in my opinion, that "Personal Life" be placed before "Death" instead of between Death and "Aftermath of his death".Trillfendi (talk) 00:33, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Virginia Vallejo's Testimony - Unclear Implication

The last two sentences of the last paragraph of "Virginia Vallejo's Testimony" read:

"On 24 July, a video in which Vallejo accused Santofimio of instigating Escobar to eliminate presidential candidate Galán was aired on Colombian television. This video was key in helping Santofimio gain exoneration, as well as a lack of evidence being present in the original trial."

The second sentence goes completely against the whole gist of the subsection actually. Is it because of the "lack of evidence" and circumstantial nature of her testimony? And this being the only evidence that this video "helped" Santofimio? If so, it should be clarified and a different word than "helped" used maybe? Idk, I could be missing something. Cornelius (talk) 02:56, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2018

Change from: Penguim Random House

Change to:

Penguin Random House Stuntpope (talk) 15:35, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for pointing that out - Arjayay (talk) 16:39, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2018

I want to change the image of pablo escobar. Yash0514 (talk) 09:22, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. L293D (☎ • ✎) 12:26, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2018

Pablo's mothers name is Hermilda and not Hemilda.

Thanks 77.249.106.57 (talk) 00:57, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Existing sources give her name as "Hemilda", e.g. [1]. General Ization ^Talk 00:59, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Corpse photo

Are there other usable photos of Escobar's death? It somewhat bothers me that this particular image has obviously been tampered with somewhat, whereas other photos of the event appear to be untouched. If you don't know what I mean, zoom in and look under Pablo's body. The two tiles have identical blood splatters. I don't know if anything else was edited in the image (the shadows look suspect) and it was probably for a reason such as avoiding gore or making it more presentable, but it still seems unnatural to me to use an edited photograph so prominently. Prinsgezinde (talk) 23:03, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Claim of illegitimate son

In October 2018, the BBC website included a story from a man called Phillip Whitcomb who claims he is the eldest child of Pablo Escobar. At 53 years of age in 2018, he would have been conceived when Escobar was 15-16 years old if true. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-hereford-worcester-45746292/pablo-escobar-s-lovechild-on-life-at-english-boarding-school — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.191.129 (talk) 14:51, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Typos and strange uncited claim

There's a few typos and this random uncited contribution that is immediately discredited in the same article : "Henao is now believed to be living under an alias in North Carolina.[citation needed] This is completely false: María Victoria Henao de Escobar, with her new identity as María Isabel Santos Caballero, continues to live in Buenos Aires with her son and daughter.[69]" NadiraJames (talk) 00:10, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2018

FriedLev (talk) 20:09, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Add in Category: Colombian people of Basque descent. He had a huge amount of Basque blood.

I don't see any mention of Basque descent or lineage in the article. Please provide a reliable source to support your request so the article can be updated accordingly. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 21:56, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

The photo showing the dead Escobar

The dead Escobar photo shown is ubiquitous around the World Wide Web. Yet, there is no doubt that there has been substantial editing done to the photo. Look at the roofing tiles at the bottom of the picture. Two of the tiles are identical, meaning they were copied from one portion to of the picture to another.

If some of the photo is "doctored", that leads me to question the authenticity of the entire photo.

---Tom Nally, New Orleans — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.50.50.2 (talk) 00:16, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, is there a different picture that it can be replaced with? Meatsgains (talk) 21:50, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

The photo is in any event tasteless in the extreme. Whatever his crimes may have been, he was a human being, not a game animal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.194.151 (talk) 21:34, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Liberal Alternative

No such party is listed as having won seats in the 1982 elections. The BBC (and other sources) state that Escobar was elected as a Liberal Party member. Is this correct? Number 57 20:08, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Meaning of "plata o plomo"

This phrase, allegedly Escobar's policy, refers to the two options he gave to law enforcement officers and government judges: To either take a bribe (plata = money) or to take a bullet (plomo = lead). I believe you are misinterpreting this phrase if you believe the term "plata" to mean silver. The figure of speech does not intend to be a discussion about base metals. Colombiano21 (talk) 17:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

"Plata" literally means "silver." The silver is a referance to money, where the lead is a reference to the lead in a bullet. 69.211.51.107 (talk) 01:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your answer. I think "plata" can be literally translated as either "silver" or "money". In this context, money seems to make more sense. I did a quick Google search and saw references in both directions. This one, specifically about the Medellin cartel, uses my interpretation. I think we will have to make a compromise, which I think is fine. Any ideas for one? Colombiano21 (talk) 03:50, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

As I said in the edit summary, the whole point of the figure of speech is that the choice is between two base metals, which are metaphors for the real meaning: if you use "money" then the cleverness of the phrase is lost. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

OK. Well, as I mentioned before, I disagree with your interpretation of the figure of speech. Colombians relate the word "plata" to money, rather than to the metal. But I don't see this discussion leading anywhere. In the meantime, an anonymous IP has edited the same phrase and its explanation. Would you agree with the current version on the page (which explains that it is Colombian 'slang')? Colombiano21 (talk) 16:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I also found a previous discussion about this on the talk page archives: Talk:Pablo_Escobar/Archive1#silver_or_lead. Colombiano21 (talk) 16:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware that it's slang. Slang is often a form of wordplay, which is precisely the point here. The whole point of phrasing the thing as "plata o plomo" is because it is a figure of speech - if this were just a mundane phrase then it wouldn't be notable here at all. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree that in this case, plata = money. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.115.163.217 (talk) 19:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Plata does mean money and plomo means lead — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antcol10 (talk • contribs) 16:45, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Death of Pablo Escobar

In regard to the shot to his ear. There was no stippling pattern visible during autopsy. Thereby refuting the claim that Escobar committed suicide. In fact, it proves he was shot from a greater distance than arms lentgh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rkgtactical (talk • contribs) 05:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

He was killed by the DEA and Colombian military on a rooftop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antcol10 (talk • contribs) 16:47, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2020

closest family member alive cyril kortbawi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.95.254.226 (talk) 03:49, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Copypaste and Baselmans 2016

Most of this article up to section "Hacienda Nápoles" is essentially identical to a section of the book Drugs by John Baselmans, available online. It isn't clear to me which way the copying went; the book was published in 2016 and the matching text seems to have been added some time that year. The article's current version contained two footnotes that refer to Baselmans 2016 (although the citation is missing). And the book itself suggests that the text is copyable with permission, although no license is mentioned.

I'll reach out to the author. David Brooks (talk) 04:26, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Well, that was gullible of me. Too late in the evening, and I failed to AGF. Much of the relevant text was already in this article in 2011 (as far back as I have looked), so the presumption must be that the copyvio was in the other direction; the book does not attribute its text. Furthermore, there are other wholesale matches in the book, for example with the Drug article. I'll remove the cryptic footnotes. David Brooks (talk) 16:11, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Names of Pablo Escobar

In the frame of main data there are two names that didn't use to call him: Matar a Pablo (Killing Pablo) was the name of a book about Escobar but there are no testimonies about He named like that, and The King of Crack doesn't use because the crack, named bazuco or bazuca in Colombia, is a low quality of cocaine, and a kingpin like Escobar didn't use something like it. Meanwhile, names like "el doctor" (The doctor), are a name used by the aristrocracy, or Zar or Mágico (Magician or wizard) because mágico sounds in spanish like mafia (mob), may be considered by this frame. Charlyzona (talk) 02:28, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Estimates on How Many Died by Escobar's Violence?

Are there any estimates on how many people were killed by Escobar's bombings, assassinations, and so forth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.144.60.65 (talk) 00:01, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

About 15,000 Joe mama 218 (talk) 14:02, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2022

Clxdz (talk) 14:33, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

You haven't said what change you think should be make. JBW (talk) 14:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2022

Change “ancient Corine is” to “cocaine” at end of paragraph on Medellin Cartel 2604:3D09:A7F:9200:30CA:8EB9:5B10:9776 (talk) 07:14, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done WelpThatWorked (talk) 17:53, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

duplicate chapter

The chapter medellin group and early drug networks are nearly identical. One could be removed. 2A02:908:384:29C0:D96B:11F2:ABD:D6DC (talk) 08:41, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Political career

Why is there so little about his foray into politics? Its kind of odd that it's briefly mentioned in the lead and then never again. Reflecktor (talk) 21:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 October 2022

Current text:

In Congress, the new Attorney General, Rodrigo Leila Bonilla, had become Escobar's opponent, accusing Escobar of criminal activity from the very first day of Congress. Escobar's arrest in 1976 was investigated by Bonilla's subordinates. A few months later, Liberal leader Luis Carlos Garland expelled Escobar from the party. Although Escobar fought back, he announced his retirement from politics in January 1984. Three months later, Bonilla was murdered

Change to:

In Congress, the new Minister of Justice, Rodrigo Lara-Bonilla, had become Escobar's opponent, accusing Escobar of criminal activity from the very first day of Congress. Escobar's arrest in 1976 was investigated by Lara-Bonilla's subordinates. A few months later, Liberal leader Luis Carlos Garland expelled Escobar from the party. Although Escobar fought back, he announced his retirement from politics in January 1984. Three months later, Lara-Bonilla was murdered

Explanation for the four text edits:

1/ Name incorrectly state as "Rodrigo Leila Bonilla" - should be "Rodrigo Lara Bonilla" First family-name is Lara Second family-name is Bonilla. In Latin American countries the two family nmaes are often expressed in hyphenated form, which works better for a less amiguous comprehension in English.

2/ Rodrigo Lara-Bonilla held the post of Minister of Justice (as stated correctly in the side bar), but never held the post of Attorney General (Esp: "Procurador General"). THis page in Spanish provides a list of Attorneys-General of Colombia: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procurador_general_de_Colombia

3 & 4/ It is misleading to refer to Rodrigo Lara Bonilla as "Bonilla". Correct reference will be to "investigated by Lara's subordniates" or "Three months later, Lara was murdered" - however for English usage the hyphenated form of Lara-Bonilla is clear and less ambiguous - esp given that many English readers would likely read "Lara was murdered" as refering to a woman's first name of Lara.

More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Lara 60.242.235.134 (talk) 15:44, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done Please use {{textdiff}} next time. Aaron Liu (talk) 12:08, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Amount of cocaine per month

At 1980s prices, shipping 80 tons of cocaine per month, as the intro section here claims, would quickly give Escobar income exceeding the GDP of the entire world. The other figurs given for his net worth (20 billion dollars or so) seem entirely plausible given his position, but there's no way he was selling 80 tons of cocaine a month for any sustained period of time - he would literally run into the problem of having no one to sell it to because he has already acquired all the money there is. Some better sourced numbers with actual citations would be good for any claims about income or the volume of the drug business. Predestiprestidigitation (talk) 20:12, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Well, he wasn't selling it at retail prices, and he had plenty of expenses. Recent statistics do confirm that that is about how much cocaine Columbia produces, so if he had a near monopoly that is what he would have been shipping. MrOllie (talk) 20:22, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Even at a lower cut it doesn't add up, and the problem of who is buying it on the street at that volume, even if all the money doesn't flow to the wholesaler, still exists - in 1985 when cocaine was $600/gram, selling 80 tons of it a month for 12 months means that over 10% of the entire GDP of the United States was being spent on retail cocaine purchases. There's just no way that's true. Predestiprestidigitation (talk) 20:49, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

no 74.113.55.102 (talk) 17:20, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2023

how he died most likely and i would like to mention that he probably was killed by a CAG (1st SFOD-D) Operator conducting sniper cover Goofy lil guy. (talk) 22:53, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:42, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 April 2023

Under 'Escobar at the height of his power', it says 'Galán's successor, César Gaviria Trujillo, who missed the plane and survived, but was on board.' If he missed the plane, he was not on board. Please strike 'but was on board' Msrynear (talk) 02:34, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done - FlightTime (open channel) 02:48, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Silver or lead

I retired from editing years ago and I am not going to start a war with @DeCausa (who seems to like the revert button a bit too much according to his user talk page), so let us see who is right.

Let us begin with The Importance of Being Earnest. One of its most infamous Spanish translations is "La importancia de llamarse Ernesto", a major boo boo in the translation sector.

Why am I talking about this? Because @DeCausa is basing his reverting my edits on two sources written by non-native speakers who did a literal translation of Escobar's phrase "plata o plomo".

Indeed, "plata o plomo" literally means "silver or lead". However, in Colombia and in many other Spanish-speaking countries, "plata" is used to refer to money, not silver, and "plomo" for firearms (specifically the action of shooting a firearm).

Therefore, the proper translation of this phrase would be "money or death".

My credential: I am a sworn translator and interpreter in both English and Spanish with 12 years' experience. I am certified by the Colombian government. I am a native Spanish speaker in Colombia. Therefore, I believe I am more than qualified to correct a translation and to contest a source.

I will proceed to edit the article in a way I hope will not lead to an editing war. ҢДMM®(Hundry Marquina!) 15:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@HAMM: You seem to misunderstand a key aspect of how Wikipedia works. There are two important policies that are relevant here and must be followed: WP:V and WP:OR. The first means the information must be verifiable and can be checked through an inline citation from a reliable source. In this case you are trying to insert material which is contrary to the citation. That is not permitted in Wikipedia. the second means you cannot use what you believe to be your expert knowledge. Edits must be based on published material from reliable sources and NOT your personal knowledge. There's a fairly obvious reason for that - whatever your expertise: On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog. It may help to read WP:EXPERT. DeCausa (talk) 19:08, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@DeCausa You are asking for a source about something that requires ONLY speaking Spanish because it is basic Spanish knowledge. You keep reverting an explanation about the Spanish language when you do not speak Spanish. Anyway, I found a source to stop you from reverting my changes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HAMM (talk • contribs) 22:12, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

What makes you think I don't speak Spanish. The "source" that you included doesn't conform to Wikipedia standards - it's an art gallery blog. You need to read WP:RS to understand what's needed. Wikipedia isn't about just including what ypu think is right. We have a considerable body of policies that content must comply with. Please stop edit warring or you'll end up blocked. I suggest you self-revert your last edit and discuss any further change here before you make it. The correct process is explained in WP:BRD DeCausa (talk) 22:17, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Abecedare

I tried to compromise on the issue adding just an explanation to the literal translation "silver or lead" because it makes no sense in English, though it does require some basic knowledge about Colombian slang. In this sense, it should not require a source because it is merely a mistranslation originating on the cited source and copy-pasted on the article; it is neither adding nor removing information. If you look up La importancia de llamarse Ernesto on the Spanish Wikipedia, you will see that they added an entire section just to explain the mistranslation.

I have not read the whole article, but I can proofread it if needed. My sworn translator credential is available upon request. ҢДMM®(Hundry Marquina!) 22:35, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Please stop talking about your credentials. It is absolutely forbidden to take them into account. I don't know how much clearer I can be. You seem determined to ignore Wikipedia policies. To include the edit you want you must do two things: (1) find a source that qualifies as reliable per WP:RS that supports your edit (2) obtain consensus agreement on this talk page per WP:ONUS. Do you understand? DeCausa (talk) 22:41, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Uninvolved editor opinion here.

A reasonable way forward here, I think, is to use the original Spanish phrase, rather than a naked literal or non-literal translation, then include the translation with an explanation of what its significance is, including a citation to a reliable source for the explanation.

An example could be something like:

Escobar's strategy was colloquially referred to as plata o plomo: literally "silver or lead," signifying that the target had the choice of either accepting the bribe (the "silver") or being killed (shot with a lead bullet).

The above could be wordsmithed and improved, but that's the basic idea. TJRC (talk) 23:47, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I think that's a little WP:SYNTHy. There must be a reliable source that addresses it directly in the context of Escobar, surely. The trouble with what HAMM has done is that although the source covers it directly a commercial art gallery blog isn't WP:RS. DeCausa (talk) 05:58, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Comment: I tried to compromise on the issue adding just an explanation to the literal translation "silver or lead" because it makes no sense in English, though it does require some basic knowledge about Colombian slang - "silver or lead" is perfectly understandable without any knowledge of Colombian slang. It's quite clear that it refers to either take money and keep quiet, or you're dead. Add in the context of it being applied to a ruthless and murderous drug baron it's so obvious it might even qualify as WP:BLUE. My credential: English English speaker speaking English in England. Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:44, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

(Responding to ping and talkpage message) Agree with Chaheel Riens that in context (ie, His carrot-and-stick strategy of bribing public officials and political candidates in Colombia, in addition to sending hitmen to murder the ones who rejected his bribes, came to be known as "silver or lead."), "silver and lead" would be easily understood as "take the money or get a bullet" by native English speakers, especially since the construction perfect parallels of the "carrot-and-stick" (another metaphor!) mentioned earlier in the sentence. IMO the "money or death" gloss is not needed and is not very elegant writing either. Abecedare (talk) 20:28, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2023

i disagree, he was a very good person and i believe he should be represented as a great powerful political leader, thank you 185.22.4.154 (talk) 09:35, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 10:19, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Pigeons

Why is there no mention of Escobar using pigeons for communication?? That’s the reason I came to this article. Can something be added? Jhurley85 (talk) 02:36, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Edit Request

Hi,

Trigger Warning: Talk of a dead body

Under the section about his death there is a picture of his dead body. Could a warning please be added for this? Thank you very much. H6789 (talk) 23:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Request for content/help

Pigeons are often associated with Pablo Escobar, but I can find no mention of them here, which is why I came to the page. Can anyone add something regarding his connection to pigeons? I would add it myself but don’t know enough about it. (Please do not just archive my topic without responding like last time!) Jhurley85 (talk) 15:48, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

It probably went unanswered last time because no one wanted to do your research for you. If you would like something added to a Wikipedia article, you need to look for sources that comply with WP:RS and add it yourself or propose here what you think should be added. Vague suggestions asking others to do the work are unlikely to get much traction. DeCausa (talk) 07:31, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I would like to add it myself, but I have been unable to find anything in my research. I do not want others to do work for me. I’ve heard Pablo Escobar so often associated with using pigeons for sending messages, but I can’t seem to find why. I wanted to find the answer and ultimately assist others who might have that question. I wondered if anyone had information I wasn’t aware of. Thanks again. Jhurley85 (talk) 11:10, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Usually if you can't find anything in reliable sources about a topic (eg after googling) it often - but not always - means it's just not true. DeCausa (talk) 12:03, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

I know, so I was hoping to find the origin of the affiliation, but perhaps it is a moot point. Jhurley85 (talk) 12:25, 30 October 2023 (UTC)