Talk:Opium/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Inaccuracy in Ancient Use

There are many inaccuracies in the Ancient Use section. To begin with Many of the references are dead ends, unreliable or proven to be speculation, such as the Babylonian cultivation claim or the claim that Sumerians were the first to cultivate opium or use it as medicine. These claims have spread around the internet, and sometimes people haven't even bothered to reword them, with evidence of direct copy and paste all around. On almost all poppy related websites, the same speculation is copied and pasted, without an original source. Don't people borrow or buy books anymore? Never the less, I have found a great book, by a botanical professor who has written extensively about the Opium poppy and its origins, which I will use to brush up the ancient section. It also seems some of the aforementioned speculative claims that have spread online are based on his writings too, however, with names replaced, e.g. Persian replaced with Sumerian etc. It's absurd to claim any cultivation by Arabs or Sumerians, with exceptions perhaps in Lebanon, North Syria and Northern Iraq were the soil, climate and wheather allows for Opium growth. Naturally, Opium will only grow in high altitude sunny areas that also have short winters, such as on Mid-Asian mountain lines etc. Cultivation is different to that of natural growth, and Opium can be cultivated in almost all countries except dry, sandy and hot areas such as Saudi Arabia, South Iraq or North African countries (with exception of the eastern mountain lines in Egypt). Even now, there are reports of Iraqi farmers switching to Opium and seeing their crops fail due to the intense heat. None has yielded, except some North Kurdish crops. Now about the Gol e Hal which has spiralled almost to Japan. Gol/Gil e Hal, in Ancient Persian/Sanskrit predating any Sumerian civilisation means Flower of Joy, or Joy Flower. "Gol" means Flower, and "Hal" means the act of Experiencing Worldly Bliss or in short, Joy, derived from Persian records. Even today, in Modern Persian, the "Gol e Hal" means the Flower of Joy. Unfortunately, someone along the chain decided to switch things to ""Sumerians"" and Babylonians when correctly, Iran and Persian history has rich evidence of both culture, natural and medicinal. People tend to forget, less than 90 years ago, Persia was renamed to Iran, and Persia included Afganistan, Northern Iraq, Eastern Turkey, before the Ottomon Empire, of whom all spoke dialects of Ancient Persian. Anyway, I will write in short the source: The native and natural area for the opium poppy to have first grown is on the Iranian plateau, a mountain line ranging from Afghanistan, passing Iran and ending at Turkey. Even today, the largest area where the Opium poppy grows naturally is around the Damavand mountain, all other large concentrations around the world are farmland and not natural. The oldest archealogical record of Opium cultivation usage for medicine as well as recreational purposes are in Iran, with stone tablets in Sanskrit found mentioning the Opium poppy as means for mental and physical numbness. There is more. I may photocopy it and upload it somewhere. Anyway, I will fix things up once I get time.--78.86.159.199 (talk) 01:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Hope this has helped you. --78.86.117.164 (talk) 00:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
It's also unclear what text is being referred to in the section, which begins with reference to an unnamed source. Isaaccurtis (talk) 13:58, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Reference Section/ Re: Game of Thrones

I have no problem with the reference of use, but the second sentence is an opinion, and a SADISTIC one. It states that it is pointless to administer morphine to wounded characters because "they die anyway". Morphine is to alleviate pain and has no healing purpose. Dying soldiers have been given pain killers to alleviate suffering for thousands of years.Kgenereux (talk) 12:41, 9 July 2015 (UTC)Kgenereux

I agree the comment is inappropriate and have removed it. Deli nk (talk) 13:12, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

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Considering rearranging sections opium use by century

Currently, sections are defined partly geographically and partly by century (and sometimes both). Unless anyone has a rejection, I'm going to standardize by time (organizing sections by a time period, usually a century). EfficaciousEggplant (talk • contribs)

Sounds good, altho the way that history currently dominates this article is not ideal. ;) II | (t - c) 02:18, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

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Gene drive against morphine content in opium

Could a gene drive theoretically be implemented by a country or organization that would eliminate opium from producing morphine or other opiates to deter its use in the drug trade in the wild? This could originally come from good intentions for disrupting wild type opium while leaving "spared" morphine yielding opium in controlled labs used for research and medicinal production in a controlled environment. At the same time it could lead to many risks, or affect other species of plants via broadly infecting/transfecting plant viruses or horizontally transposable genetic elements 72.89.237.139 (talk) 01:17, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

As the papaver plant is not in itself a dangerous or harmful organism, like the malaria mosquito, I doubt that would be a good (morally justified) reason for gene drive. Also gene drive at present are directed to laboratoria populations or wild populations, use in agriculture against the will of the farmer could be extra difficult, as he could circumvent it by selecting the seeds of the plant which yield more opium instead of less. Bever (talk) 23:07, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

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Dope, Dhoop, Dhupa

In the part where the origin of the word dope is sourced it is believed by the source to come from the dutch word doup, which means sauce, as in a gravy. That seems less likely than it being sourced from India since that is where most of the opium was coming from for a long time. The word Dhupa has various meanings in Sanskrit:

धूप dhUpa m. aroma धूप dhUpa m. fume धूप dhUpa m. perfume धूप dhUpa m. aromatic vapour or smoke proceeding from gum or resin धूप dhUpa m. gum and resin themselves धूप dhUpa m. one of the 16 acts of homage or offerings in the paJcAyatara ceremony धूप dhUpa m. incense

In India incense is commonly called dhoop because it is a resin and or perfume which you burn to produce smoke, so that seems much more likely as the source of the word dope since in India opium is a form of dhupa.

shiva das 02:12, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

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Prohibition section

The "Prohibition outside China" section is very awkard. It first deals only with the US, Australia and Canada and only in the last paragraph gives a more world-wide view. Chronologically the section is rather disordered. I hope somebody can rewrite it. Bever (talk) 21:28, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Claim that the "hul gil" information is bogus

https://resobscura.blogspot.com/2018/08/opium-or-cucumber-debunking-myth-about.html

At the very least, the section should be changed to mention this is disputed.

3400BCE is older than the oldest Sumerian texts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_language — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.189.192.96 (talk) 16:28, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

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