Talk:Nightbirde

Why the name change to her stage name?

Can someone please explain to me why the article's title was changed from her real name to her stage name? It makes no sense to change the title, and not change the structure of the lede's wording to reflect that.... GUtt01 (talk) 23:04, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

It’s literally like the rock what is it that you dont get? 91.193.154.175 (talk) 05:46, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 23 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost (talk) 12:27, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

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Nightbirde → Jane Marczewski – Page is titled under the performers stage name, not under their real name. Cannot move the article to this title, because get message claiming the article's new title already exists. I checked for an article via someone's stage name  – "Tape Face"  – and found it redirects to the article of that person under their real name (Sam Wills) GUtt01 (talk) 10:20, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 21:04, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

• @GUtt01: Articles are located at the subject's WP:COMMONNAME, which in this case appears to be the stage name. Lennart97 (talk) 11:07, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nomination. Articles such as those appended as inline cites under her entry, [1][2], confirm that she continues to be referenced via her birth name. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:05, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
• Strong oppose as per WP:COMMONNAME; a handful of sources using her birth name doesn't justify moving the article to a title which she is less commonly known by. Why, even her official website uses her stage name. We don't refer to Bruno Mars as Peter Hernandez, or Katy Perry as Katheryn Hudson, and this isn't an exception. If she changes her stage name to reflect her birth name, by all means, reopen this discussion, but at this stage this move should be speedily closed per the article titling policy. Sean Stephens (talk) 08:44, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
• Strong oppose for the same reason as Sean Stephens. She publicly and professionally identifies as Nightbirde (including social media) which is why i changed the "not broken" link. Her releases are as Nightbirde. Family and local communities may refer to her as Jane because that's how they personally know her. Even the sources given say she performs as Nightbirde. Let's say Hammer was on AGT and his name was asked, if he says Stanley Burrell but he performs as M.C. Hammer, we shouldn't change his article as his birth name. Same as other artists going by stage names. Some celebs, such as The Rock, use their real name when they switch to acting and only then should it be changed to that current status. This is a no-brainer. Similarly, as i first mentioned Tape Face on the AGT (season 16) talk page, the public knows Sam Wills as Tape Face (i think his should be changed since that's what he's most well-known as). 137.27.65.235 (talk) 22:55, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jane Marczewski on AGT Season 16 article

It's important to note that AGT doesn't choose what her name is. We don't have to wait for future episodes to know. Nightbirde existed before her audition and she decides what name she is billed as... An example is the recent appearance of the Sklar Brothers. They had a career well before AGT. Likewise, Nightbirde wasn't created/produced by AGT. It's possible some are confusing interviews about her cancer history (she's Jane as a patient) with her singing career. Seems counterproductive and disruptive to revert or edit war about her name when she clearly said she performs as Nightbirde on the show and releases music as Nightbirde (pre-AGT). 137.27.65.235 (talk) 05:25, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

If the person had an earlier career, I would not argue against making clear in the article that AGT did not create/produce her, but at present, the only reason that assumption is being made is because no-one seems to have found information about her earlier performances before the program and included it in the article. I am not likely to do so, because I feel others might be better suited to doing so than me. As to the name she is using on AGT, it needs to be properly clarified as such - when clarification is unclear by the person when identifying themselves, in the region of what name they intend to use on the program, we can't determine which name can be used in the AGT S16 article. Also, in hindsight, it should have been to wait for the information the program releases on quarterfinalists, to get that clarification remedied. News articles and the official YT channel for AGT can not be clear enough on name, because they may and possibly do conflict on which is being used. GUtt01 (talk) 20:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

You actually make a valid point. We don't know behind the scenes without reliable sources if Nightbirde was spotted by Simon or AGT producers and had her "move to California" and "changed my name" per the lyrics in her now popular song. However, i'm going by the 2019 music she released pre-AGT, although she could have changed her name for those on social media after her AGT audition. BUT, regardless, her notable song charted as Nightbirde AND she said she performs as Nightbirde on the best source possible -- the TV show itself. Yes, she isn't notable prior to AGT and most likely shouldn't even have an article. However, now the public knows her as Nightbirde not Jane. To that point, the Hall & Oates article is based on how the public refers to them. It's not the name on any of their albums or how Daryl Hall & John Oates wants to be referred as. Likewise, people aren't going to refer to "It's OK" as the song by Jane Marczewski. Hope you're able to see my point of view this time. 137.27.65.235 (talk) 03:15, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, until AGT releases information on quarterfinalists, I'll be waiting before I can make changes to the name - as I pointed out before, corrections will be made when appropriate, and in this case, when clarification can not be disputed 100%. GUtt01 (talk) 09:23, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

To be clear, no one owns articles. So "i'll be waiting before i can make changes to the name" isn't your responsibility or decision. The only reason i haven't changed it, and perhaps others aren't, is because there's no agreed consensus. However, currently, there are three for Nightbirde (at least the article to mention it which is why i shared the link with that name) and one/you against Nightbirde. Perhaps we need a formal proposal to change it. Right now it should read Nightbirde based on input given then changed if in fact she doesn't refer to herself that way later in the season. Regardless, she's put out music and social media/websites as Nightbirde. This should be enough to change it along with the sources provided and the fact that more strongly oppose changing her article to her birth name. Something to keep in mind. I think going to ANI when i made a valid argument didn't help matters. There is no "threat" to you getting it your way. It should be done according to Wiki policies. At this point, more are for Nightbirde. I didn't "undo" it to avoid edit wars and reverts. I've said what i have to say and repeating myself won't change it. Godspeed! 137.27.65.235 (talk) 07:29, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I don't own the article, so in hindsight, I may have made a mistake with my words. It's only human to err, after all. You make valid points, as do I. I wish I could close the Move Request above on the Exceptions part, but as its not strongly unanimous, I think an admin would probably tell me I can't unless there was more votes put in towards opposition. The one issue I will point out, is that the input element of your argument will probably only stand if someone can properly look into her past and delve more into her career and her singing. As for AGT S16  – we can make the changes regarding which name to use when clarification is given by the production staff, as conflicting sources between news sites and the program's official YT channel don't help to denote which name she is being identified under (clarification might be construed as verification under Wiki's guidelines, I don't know) Anyway... Let's just see how things pan out for now. I certainly will look forward to having the information from the production staff, so I can help with corrections as much as you and any other editor. GUtt01 (talk) 10:06, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Understood, but to my knowledge from the AGT audition, Nightbirde only said Jane was her name (followed by Nightbirde when she sings/performs). I don't recall her ever using her full name on it. So that must have been from another source... I dispute/oppose changing this article to her legal name as explained above. The AGT Season 16 should be the same since the article includes her legal name but if it's not i won't lose sleep over it. As you already mentioned, let's see how it pans out as the show progresses. Take care! 137.27.65.235 (talk) 10:21, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Okay, that's all good. Would not have liked either of us to draw this out into an ugly writing match on the subject  – and I say writing, because... well... it's not like the words we write actually speak. Anyway, we agree that we should see how this pans out. Peace. GUtt01 (talk) 10:32, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't think it makes much difference, as a redirect from the other name would bring any searchers to the article. The bigger question is whether she is natable. She is essentially a person with one song that charted on minor charts (never on Billboard 100) and who appeared in one and only one TV broadcast. The fact that she had potential does not make her notable in an encyclopedic sense. In any case, someone added a birthdate today without a source, but per WP:BLP, it should not be added without a source. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:30, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

I would agree that there is an issue with notability, except for one question - Is it one song? There is two one song with two variations that has citations, and two without, listed in the article. GUtt01 (talk) 22:41, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ssilvers: I strongly agree with you and opened an AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nightbirde. So much ink (…bytes?) spilled about the article title that the issue of notability and especially WP:BLP1E has not been carefully considered. GUtt01's argument that because she sang two variations of her one song that she sang on TV she's notable is very flimsy and does not come close to defeating BLP1E. I get that this is sad, she has incurable cancer and is getting worse and is unlikely to be able to sing more or have a further career, barring a miracle remission. But human tragedy is not notability, and she is not notable for a standalone encyclopedia entry. Given that every season of the reality show has an article, there's more than enough opportunity to include her there, including the details of her death, should that indeed occur as her doctors predict. That will have to do. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 01:12, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

As per the ANI report i just responded to, she should be included in the AGT 16 article (which i replaced her again with sources), even if this article is deleted. So i trust she won't be removed again. There are other AGT participants who also may not be notable enough for an article. Thanks for the assistance. Take care! 137.27.65.235 (talk) 01:18, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

@137.27.65.235: I am logging off for the night, but feel free to write a list of other participants who don't fit the notability policy in a new section on my user talk page. I can open PROD's for the ones I don't think will be controversial and AfD's for those that I think will be. We can do a little cleanup together—I'm extended confirmed so I can do some things an IP editor can't. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 01:54, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

I noticed after posting my comment that several from AGT16 were already deleted since the last time i was on a month ago. Some are: Léa Kyle, Victory Brinker & Dustin Tavella. (GUtt01 could certainly check more and inform you as far as others from past episodes/seasons) 137.27.65.235 (talk) 02:29, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Just wondering how much longer before the template can be removed? Thank you, kindly! 137.27.65.235 (talk) 08:27, 24 September 2021 (UTC)