Talk:New Jersey/Archive 1

Rankings

I was recently reading a few lists I had found around. New Jersey is ranked at 19 for safest state [1] and 32 for most dangerous state [2]

I was wondering, if anyone could edit this on to the article, if it's nessecary? I'm new to Wikipedia and I don't know how it works. Still confusing..Thanks. Mireiyu 23:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry that I think no one has responded to your question quickly at all, but if you're still here, I don't really know why this matters or how to interpret it. I don't really think that this bears any importance to the article, just my opinion. SeanMD80^{talk | contribs} 23:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

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Added information in the table to the right about the gubernatorial election as of 11/09/2005. --Kether83

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Wondering how to edit this State Entry?
The WikiProject U.S. states standards might help.

Moved this from the article to here:

The background color of the flag shown on this page is too dark. The state colors chosen by George Washington for the colony's troops were light brown (buff) and blue. - Zoe

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Could you provide a citation for the New Jersey per capita income passing that of Connecticut? While more recent figures may differ, the 2000 census results are pretty static after a certain point. -- John Owens 22:09 Apr 24, 2003 (UTC)

I'm from NJ myself, and it was a big deal when the census came out. It was all over our newspapers because we have a reputation for being a poor, dirty, scummy, urban state that no one wants to visit, so of course we're all proud to brag that we're the richest state in the country now. It wasn't by much; only like $1,000 more than Connecticut. I used to know exactly how to find the census statistics on their web site, but it changed and I'm having trouble finding it. I'm looking for an exact number. I'll update the page when I find it.

According to the most recent (2003) Census Bureau statistics, CT has a higher per capita income than NJ. However, NJ has a higher median household income than CT. The statistics for the top 5 states are: Per Capita Income: 1) District of Col $32,840 2) Connecticut $31,474 3) New Jersey $29,094 4) Maryland $28,882 5) Massachusetts $28,509 Median Household Income: 1) New Jersey $58,588 2) Maryland $57,218 3) Connecticut $56,803 4) New Hampshire $53,910 5) Massachuesetts $53,610

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I have added to the History section. Before it had a reference to Berkeley selling his half, but no real explanation of who he was or how he got into the picture. So I have added the Charles to James to C&B and a teensy bit about the motivations and why it could be sold around like that. I realize that this section is getting larger and is rather tipped toward the 1600s but there is as yet no History of New Jersey article. I could start one, but it would have a similar tip. I am reluctant to start a History of....called "...Colonial New Jersey" or "...Proprietary New Jersey" or "...New Jersey (colonial)" Any guidance? ArloBee 14:39 17 May 2003 (UTC)

With the size of the section as it is, I think it should stay in this article for now. I think it should be significantly larger before being split off. If (or when) it does become a separate article, History of New Jersey sounds like the best title. Even if it is concentrated in one era, it's better to leave the possibility of expansion rather than limiting the range of the article too much. If it becomes very large at some point, it could be split further then. It's quite common to have articles that concentrate too much on one aspect of a subject, but that is getting fixed over time -- sannse 14:55 17 May 2003 (UTC)

Thanks, Sannse! ArloBee 13:04 19 May 2003 (UTC)

Would it be too complicated to embed HTML comments with recommended/desired sub-section headings? It might be complicated for non-HTML literate, but neater than a collection of stubs, and would provide jumping-off points for people. Just an idea. --ishu 13:06 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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The list of small towns is a stub, in my view, and is at least as relevant as the smaller colleges, or (four) minor league baseball teams. As the list grows, we can move it to List of cities in New Jersey as for other states such as Maryland and Texas. The presence of the links on the main page encourages people to add to the list, and to modify pages for the towns with links. What's wikier than that? -- ishu 22:18, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

• If you wanted to list all the towns in New Jersey you could do that on a seperate page, all you would need to do is write a script to go through all the county articles for New Jersey and then you'd have your very large list. The other state pages don't list such pointless things. The difference between colleges and baseball teams and towns is that there are hundreds of towns in New Jersey while only a few colleges and baseball teams, and they are already listed completely. I'm going to remove "Cherry Hill, Haddonfield, Murray Hill, and Voorhees" again unless someone comes up with a good reason for their inclusion M123 08:51, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)

--- Some words that we New Jerseans pronounce differently: (Words in parenthesis are phoenetic spellings)

Chocolate --> "chawk-lit" Dog --> "Dawg" New Jersey --> "New Jer-zee" (The only people that say "Joy-zee" are from New "Yawk") Water --> "Wuh-ter" Because --> "Bee-cawze" Bagel --> "Bay-gull" (while the south Jerseans say "Beg-ull") Paul --> "Pawl"

Rutherford: "Ruddiferd". Only Rutherfordians say it that way, though. I have never heard "wuh-ter", although I have heard "oil" pronounced "earl". Others will testify that "earl" extends out of NJ to Stat'Nisland and beyond.

Please excuse, for they just had a lobotomy. Most of those words are only pronounced that way in North Jersey.

I don't know, I am from North Jersey and have never heard that accent anywhere near here. The range of these "characteristic NJ" accents are extremely small. SeanMD80^{talk | contribs} 23:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

these are ridiculous exagerations. especially the whole "wuh-ter." thing. I've been in south Jersey all my life, and I say "wah-ter." So does just about everyone I know. John 06:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Misrepresenting the state flag

I was wondering how to also edit the state flag. The small version is closer to the actual representation - but it's still not right and then the enlarged version is very wrong. This is an article about how the state flag is often misrepresented and includes an ACTUAL photo so people can see the actual flag...AboutNewJersey.com - State Symbols and Flag

It would be nice if people actually presented the New Jersey flag properly. There are two ways the goddesses are represented on flag though - sometimes wearing a white gown and the other wearing a blue gown. The blue gown seems to be the most prevalent on the flag.

that's all because you're a giant suburb, no one cares about you anymore than they care about long island

Well, somebody has no idea what NJ's actually like, it seems. Smooth work, troll. --Xanzzibar 18:26, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

forgetaboutit, next time he's in newark, i'll take him for a ride for a to the east site. tony wants to talk to him. :D Project2501a 20:39, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, New Jersey is about 1000 times better than Long Island and has the major advantage of not being populated by Long Islanders. And if we look at recent TV, The Sopranos is actually a great show, while the untruly titled Everybody Loves Raymond was about as good as being stuck on a Long Island Rail Road train full of Long Islanders for a few hours. --Spotteddogsdotorg 22:32, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hey plus I'll take the GSP over the LIE any day :o) Kether83 11:32, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Borders

If someone has time, we might want to address the border disputes of New Jersey with New York. The northern border was not settled for some time and there have been numerous disputes over Hudson River islands. This page might be a useful starting point: [3] --ChrisRuvolo 01:15, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Indeed. We all know that, until the 'renovation' in the late 80s, the Statue of Liberty was in New Jersey. Phones on the island had (201) area codes, and power came from the NJ side.

Another interesting "New Jersey border" fact is that, for all intents and purposes, geographically, New Jersey is a peninsula ... but not all of the 'New Jersey peninsula' is New Jersey! Look carefully at the Delaware - NJ state border south of Pennsville. Part of Dealware is ... in New Jersey!

I'm wondering if the above poster was looking at Google Earth for his/her information as it's very inaccurate with border placement, especially up close. Delaware's border with NJ is sort of unique in that Delaware encompasses ALL of the Delaware River up to the NJ shore - not just halfway across the river as is normal elsewhere, and the PA/NJ border on the same river. However, it seems Delaware has claimed some tidal flats which do appear to be a part of the NJ "peninsula." I do caution against using Google Earth for border information unless you can judge the deviation - it's pretty bad in some cases. Kether83 11:39, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

It's not just in Google Earth, but also on paper maps such as Rand McNalley's road atlases. (I looked it up.) Michael Greiner 13:26, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

This is because of the Twelve-Mile Circle - that article includes a map. --NE2 14:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Important Cities and Towns

Maybe it's just me, but I think the list of "important" cities and towns is getting out of control. Half the cities on the list aren't really "important", and someone seems to add another every week or two. Can we establish some basic guidelines for this? A more appropriate list, I think, would include Atlantic City, Camden, Jersey City, Newark, Princeton, and Trenton, plus maybe a couple others. --Xanzzibar 15:19, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree. Whether any cities in New Jersey are important is debatable. However, it would be simple to list only those cities that have a substantial population, such as 50,000 or 100,000. I'll do that when I have a chance.

Once you get past Newark, Jersey City, Paterson and Elizabeth (all over 100,00 as of the 2000 Census), you start running into municipalities that are mostly suburban sprawl over a large area, rather than the classic city / non-city divide as exists in most states. As an example, Hackensack (42,677 residents), Atlantic City (40,517) and Hoboken (38,577) are all cities that many people might be familiar with, yet they rank merely 42nd, 44th and 53rd on the List of municipalities in New Jersey (by population). How can a list be chosen that objectively reflects the cities / municipalities that should be included? This applies not only on the New Jersey page, but also on the Template:New Jersey. Alansohn 17:55, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be more useful and insightful to list the cities/townships that are the centers of commerce in various regions within New Jersey. For example, I'm from Morris County, and Parsippany is sort of the central town in that region. Traffic during rush hour tends to flow toward Parsippany in the morning and away in the afternoon. Bridgewater or Somerset might be another one of these areas in central Jersey.

Another good guideline might be to look at which cities are listed on larger scale maps, such as the AAA Northeast map. Usually those cities are well known or lie at important highway intersections.

I think this an example of a general problem with Wikipedia - concise lists of things tend to become bloated with everyone's favorites until they are no longer useful. Over at Bass_guitar there is a discussion of whether to include names of various influential players in the discussion of playing styles. There is also a bloated List_of_bass_guitarists, which IMO is not particularly useful. Many of the other musical instruments pages have suffered the same fate. Does anyone know of any pages that have successfully managed to keep editorial control over a list? --Kenliu 13:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

The real problem here is that there are only two cities that are important to New Jersey--New York and Philadelphia. True fact: On the boardwalk in Atlantic City, there is a sign/statue of Benjamin Franklin with a model of the Liberty Bell, and a placard saying to the effect that "only 60 miles west of here, the constitution was signed" etc. NTK 05:16, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

As if the point needed any emphasis, see [4], an article on NJ's search for a new slogan, and the various sarcastic candidates it drew. Purely a NJ-interest article, but see the top of the article--where does CNN report from? Philadelphia, PA. 24.215.155.9 02:42, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

moved from article

"Of the fifty american states, New Jersey is the worst in terms of economy and crime. New Jersey has experienced a steady decrease in population since 1832, and it is also ranked by the American Communist Party has number 1 in the nation for most communist members, with 300,000. "

Moved from article, maybe it could be included later in the article, but I wouldn't put it in. kmccoy (talk) 03:14, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• Note: The person who wrote that remark should burn and die. None of that is right and it is highly offensive (I am from New Jersey).

I am from NJ too, but if it's true, why not put it? The population stuff is bullshit, as NJ is one of the fastest-growing states and has been consisistenly through American history. NJ's population is expected to pass 10,000,000 by 2025, and probably the only thing that'll stop it from growing will be that the land's used up.68.44.184.172 2 July 2005 18:33 (UTC)

False. NJ has lost two congressional seats since 1980. Even allowing for a systematic error in the Census against urban areas, this still shows that NJ is growing more slowly than the US as a whole Septentrionalis 8 July 2005 22:07 (UTC)

Correct. New Jersey is not stagnating as much as other northern states, but it is growing more slowly than the nation as a whole. Rapid growth in this nation is concentrated in the South and West, as it has been since the 1970's.

Since the quote is unverified, and since it is still growing, it definitely is not experiencing a steady decrease in population- see New Jersey in the Twentieth Century. AndyZ 20:45, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

CPUSA does not even have NEAR that amount of membership in the whole of the USA, that is how you know it is bullshit.

"Playing a crucial role in the writing of the document was the revered Eppler family. Witout the help of the powerful, thoughful group New Jersey never would have been able to maintain itself for as long as it has. The family is rumored to be worth billions of dollars and has vast international connections."

I moved this from the article, since it was placed in the Supreme Court section, where there was no mention of any document, and seems POV. AndyZ 20:45, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

What puzzles me is why you called it a good edit even as you removed it. An edit that's irrelevant and POV is by definition not a good one. But the "document" in question is clearly the State Constitution, but I'm afraid this was just a bit of silly vandalism. TCC (talk) (contribs) 21:12, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

It's not exactly vandalism- the author wasn't trying to vandalize the New Jersey article- however it was made by an unexperienced editor who quite obviously didn't understand how Wikipedia worked. It wasn't vandalism- more so it was meant to be good-intentioned, unfortunetly the editor had no knowledge of how Wikipedia runs. I more meant good-intentioned edit, not good edit- sometimes I rush my edit summaries and type things I don't really mean. It would be quite disparaging if the first edit you make was called a blatant example of vandalism - from WP:VAND- "Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism". Eventually, users should become experience and sufficiently knowledgable about editing. AndyZ 01:52, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

So you're saying the information was true? Because if it was false, then I have difficulty seeing it as a good-faith effort of any kind. I grew up in New Jersey and never heard of this "Eppler family". I therefore took it to be a private joke of some kind. TCC (talk) (contribs) 03:00, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I live in New Jersey also and have never heard of the "Eppler family". I highly doubt it can be verified to be true now, as I think about it more, and though I still believe it wasn't vandalism (the user has no history of vandalizing). You might be right that it is some private joke or something like that- it doesn't really matter now anyhow since the passage has been removed. AndyZ 23:22, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter for the moment, but it very much matters to understand what constitutes vandalism and what does not. If a fact can't be verified now -- and I expect that a billionaire family with international holdings that is said to practically run the state of New Jersey ought to be eminently verifiable -- then it cannot be included regardless of good faith. One can, however, search the prodeedings of New Jersey's 1947 Constitutional Convention in vain for any mention of an "Eppler". [5] That it was a silly joke of some kind (and therefore vandalism) is the most likely conclusion. TCC (talk) (contribs) 23:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism vs. Excessive POV. It seems as if you were right- I guess that he user was either a member of the Eppler family or held contact with the family- and added it in for fun or vandalizing reasons. [6] shows nothing about any powerful Eppler family- so you are right. Next time I guess I should more thoroughly look at the situation :) AndyZ 23:38, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Disputed

Religion/ Race/ Ancestry/ Ethnicity At least 5% of the population of New Jersey is Jewish (in fact, New Jersey is second only to New York in proportion of Jews), but Judaism is not mentioned in the Religion section. I would change it, but I don't know where to find accurate data on this.

The racial, ethnic and religion statistics have been monkeyed with so much that I don't trust them. Lets delete them until we get verifiable information. Thoughts? --ChrisRuvolo 21:14, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

ChrisRuvolo, you're correct that the statistics shown are inaccurate. I tried twice to provide correct ones but someone keeps replacing my edits with the wrong data. I am a professional demographer and noticed that several of the ethnic, ancestry, and racial statements are not accurate. New Jersey is NOT the most Italian-American state in the nation. It is third, after Rhode Island and Connecticut. Also, New Jersey is 6% Jewish, which should be mentioned in the religion section. Additonally, New Jersey does NOT have anywhere near the highest percentage of non-whites or African Americans of any state. NJ is 66% non-Hispanic white (14% black, 13% Hispanic, 6% Asian). States that have a greater percentage of minorities (with approximate percentages) include:

• New York (16% black, 15% Hispanic, 6% Asian)
• Maryland (28% black)
• DC (60% black, 7% Hispanic)
• Georgia (29% black, 5% Hispanic)
• Florida (16% Hispanic, 14% black)
• Mississippi (36% black)
• Louisiana (32% black)
• Texas (32% Hispanic, 12% black)
• New Mexico (42% Hispanic, 10% Indian)
• Arizona (25% Mexican, 5% Indian)
• Nevada (19% Hispanic, 7% black)
• California (32% Hispanic, 12% Asian, 7% black)
• Hawaii (58% Asian, 23% multi-racial, 19% Pacific, 7% Hispanic)

The article is WRONG. I have accurate information from the U.S. Census Bureau but I don't know how to correct it if someone is blocking my edits.

Hi! i'm the one reverting your edits. I just would like you to cite your sources before you insert them in the article. :) Project2501a 30 June 2005 13:19 (UTC)

The source of the data is the United States Census Bureau, specifically Census 2000. I do cite the Bureau. The data are available from www.census.gov and specifically from http://factfinder.census.gov. I've added the specific statistics and rankings to my edits. Citations of these stats: Race/ethnicity citation with state percentages: [7]

Ancestry citation with state percentages: [8]

Well, looking at those lists, NJ is more Asian than any state but California and Hawaii (which doesn't really count since it used to belong TO Asia--it'd be more "diverse" if Hawaii had some black or white people).

Also, it has more of "other race" than any state but NY, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California, all which is probably due to Hispanics which believe that "Hispanic" is an "other" race, since they are southern states that see a lot of Hispanic immigration. Whereas, in NJ, Hispanics and Latinos, like the large Italian/Portuguese/Spanish population in NJ, tend more so to view themselves as "whites" who are of Latino origin.

On the other hand, NJ has a far larger share of blacks than the southwestern states, Texas, and California. Many of the former slave states have higher proportions of blacks, but they lack the Asians and Hispanics that NJ has. All this has to be taken into consideration WITH other minority groups that usually get lumped in as "white", even though they're not Caucasian, such as Portuguese, Jews, Italians, and Arabs. (Remember, NJ has one of the, if not THE, largest Italian-American populations; it has the 2nd largest Arab population, the 2nd largest Jewish population, and one of the largest Portuguese and Spaniard populations in the country--all groups that are not considered by other minority ethnic groups, or sometimes by themselves, as Caucasian white; they're only white racially, in the same way that Mexicans and Cubans and Argentinians are). Looking at it from this point of view, a bare minimum of NJ's population is actually Caucasian/northern European, and an overwhelming majority is "colored", non-WASP, non-KKK-eligible if I'm not being PC. When all this is taken together, all these different racial and ethnic groups are summed up, then NJ is in fact the most racially/ethnically diverse and most non-white state. (NJ does have a substantial population of Irish, British, and Germans, but they're basically non-existent compared to the other minority groups.)68.44.184.172 2 July 2005 19:06 (UTC)

Maybe someone who's actually from New Jersey should help with this.

First off that data is wrong, I can assure that New Jersey is definitly more overwhelmingly Catholic versus Protestant, I know more Jews than I know Protestantts in New Jersey, and if Jersey is like 6% Jewish how is the "other religions" section only 5%, come on. And what are the populations of other religions that exsist in New Jersey, the nearly 6% of Asians we have in NJ probably isn't Christian right, NO S***!, other relgions needs to be at least 11% (cause' most of the Koreans are Catholic, dedcut a percent from Asians for them).

And for the guy who said that Italians are not white really needs to get his head on straight. White applies to all ethnic groups coming from Europe, and where is Italy then? "Duh, Austrailia?!", you gotta be kidding me. Same with Portugese, although a lot of the "Portugese" in Jersey are actually from Brazil and many consider themselves to be Hispanic, but a good portion of them know that they're really white, but I can assure that nearly all of them live in Newark and that not in many other places in New Jersey.

And the first guy was right, New Jersey IS NOT the most diverse state in America. However, New Jersey actually is more diverse than Mississippi or Louisiana or one of those heavy black states, "diversity" in a state is measured by the mix of it's ethnic groups. The only two states he listed that are actually more diverse than New Jersey are New York and California, because they both have more widespread types of every, and I mean every minorty than New Jersey, those other states just have overwhelmingly high black or hispanic populations. New Jersey is the third most diverse state.

Another comment for the idiot who labeled Italians as none whites, Jews are whites, almost all of them in America are of Eastern European descent, Russian, German, other countries there, they're all European, which makes them white, just because they aren't Christian does not make them white.

Finally, one last comment for that same dunderhead, I'm white but I'm not KKK elidgable. I'm Irish/Italian Catholic, the fact that I'm Catholic does not mean I'm not white, the KKK is an anti-Catholic group. But heres another pont, my mother is the Italian one (this is my real parents/family, by the way), so obviously in your uneducated little world she would be "non-white" and Catholic, so the KKK wouldn't let her in, which, with the exception of the non-white part, is true. My father is Irish, and in your twisted mind that is "white", but he can't join the KKK, wanna know why, HE'S CATHOLIC! There are a lot of Irish Catholics, you seem to be implying that all Irish are Protestant, and no my dad did not convert when he married my mom he was raced Catholic, in fact much stricter Catholic than I was, you really need to get a life (and a brain).

You're right. He confused the concepts of race, ethnicity, ancestry, and religion. Race is considered to be based on indigenous origin and biological differences (although its biological roots are arbitrary). The following five major races (excluding multi-racial categories) are legally recognized in the United States:

1) White/Caucasian - origins in Europe, Middle East, North Africa

(e.g. Britain, Poland, Hungary, Egypt, Armenia)

2) Black/ African American - origins in sub-saharan Africa

(e.g. Nigeria, Ethiopia, Congo, Zimbabwe)

3) American Indian/ Alaska Native - origins in North and South America

(e.g. Peru, Venezuela, Guatemala, Mexico, Dominica, the United States - tribes such as Cherokee, Sioux, Navajo, Iroquois, Mayan)

4) Asian - origins in East, Southeast, or South Asia

(e.g. India, Vietnam, Philippines, South Korea, China, Japan)

5) Pacific Islander - origins in Oceania

(e.g. Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, Samoa, Guam)

Hispanic origin ethnicity means having origins in a Spanish-speaking country or region, such as Spain, Mexico, Panama, Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Uruguay, and Chile. Hispanics can be of any race. Most Mexicans are mestizo, mixed white and Indian, most Argentines, Spaniards, and Uruguayans are white, most Dominicans and Cubans are black or mulatto, and most Guatemalans, Bolivians, and Peruvians are Indians. (Note: Technically "Hispanic" means "Spanish-speaking" but is now used to refer to indivduals with a Hispanic background regardless of whether they currently can speak Spanish) (Note also: 'Latino' is now used synonymously by many with 'Hispanic origin', however, Latino technically includes non-Hispanic Latin/Romance-speaking people including Brazilians, Romanians, Haitians, French, Italians,

Romans Italians mixed with Huns and Jews since roman times. Italian whiteness is no the same as a Norwegian or Irishman who have not mixed with Huns or Jews. It is history. Mongols just weren't there. Racist groups don't exclude religions. If that was the case every jew would convert and join the Klan. They exclude races. I doubt if you were a Norwegian catholic a racist group would turn you away.

Jersey IS the most diverse state in the nation, behind only NY. Put it this way. When it comes to the three main and largest minority groups in the U.S. (black, hispanic and asian), only NJ (and NY) have a higher proportion of blacks, hispanics, and asians, than the national average.

Education

I deleted the "highest IQ" remark, because it is almost assuredly based on suspect information. Thunderbunny 03:22, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• New Jersey is tied with Massachusetts for the 2nd highest average IQ in the nation, look on google, it will tell you.

• • Well, shoot. Now that an anonymous editor tells me that a random link off of Google says so, I retract my statement completely. Thunderbunny 03:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

• • • You sound like you just don't WANT it to be true.

John 06:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

State Song

There is no state song for New Jersey and the state says so - see http://www.state.nj.us/faqs/facts.html. So "I'm From New Jersey" supporters sorry, but it has no legal status. --Spotteddogsdotorg 02:49, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As you know, official government sites end in .gov not .us. So the above is not an official government site. Wjhonson 16:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but state.nj.us is indeed the official site. —LrdChaos (talk) 16:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism To Religion Section

I just reverted an edit in the religion section made by someone who oh-so-obviously was screwing with the religion section. He made the non-religious 16% as opposed to the actual percentage (6% of NJ citizens are non-religious according to the census), and deducted percentages from every religion except Protestant, which I know for a fact is particuarly uncommon in NJ. Someone needs to keep closer watch over this section in particular.

I don't know where you get the idea that Protestant Christianity is "uncommon" in New Jersey, you are absolutely wrong on that. But yes, the changes made to that section were accurate. They are the 2000 numbers, the old numbers were back from 1990.

More accurate data are available at [[9]]

Catholics do outnumber Protestants but both groups are smaller than their constituent denominations claim. There has been growth in the agnostic and atheist population. The Roman Catholic Church tends to claim anyone who has been baptized in the Roman Catholic Church regardless of whether they are currently atheist, Buddhist, or whatever.

That doesn't make Protestants "uncommon" - the numbers of Catholics and Protestants here are about equal, and many parts of the state (generally the less-populated regions) are predominantly Protestant. - Cuivienen 20:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm a Protestant, who's lived all my life in Jersey, and I can tell you that Protestants are rare here. I would say that 90% of the people that I've met in Jersey are catholic or jewish.

Thank you for relating your experience. Unfortunately anecdotes do not establish statistics. New Jersey is a large state with a sprawling population, and the only way to establish statistics is to either take a random sample or to poll everyone. Which has been done. And the result is that NJ is disproportionately Catholic relative to the nation as a whole, but Protestants are hardly an endangered species there. NTK 08:09, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I also lived in NJ all my life. I thought NJ had the highest Italian population in US. It should be noted that many Italians pretend or want to be Irish and Jews pretend to be or want to be Italian . My observations and estimates for the state of NJ white looking people is 30% Jewish 65% Italians 5% everyone else maybe with both Jews and Italians increasing as time progesses and currently dominating all hiring and running of companies. Jews and Italians share common ancestory and get along quite well. If I had to name their favorite christians Italians would top their list. Most protestants in New Jersey are black with some or not many jews pretending to be protestants as it less socially advantagous in NJ to do so. It should be noted someone 25% Irish and 75% Italian will always claim to be Irish. Likewise someone 25% Italian and 75% jewish will claim to be Italian. There is the desirable nationality factor that always messes up these surveys. If you were 75% Iranian and 25% Norwegian you would tell everybody you were Norwegian. Additionally a lot of jews I met are atheists so you can take their number and add it to the jews because they are usually almost always jews. "Take what people tell you with a grain of salt and remember your gut and common sense prevail."

Intro paragraph

I reverted this again for a couple reasons. It made a few changes that, really, are completely unnecessary rewordings of what was already there. Not always a problem, but in this case, the changes introduced a slew of typos and bad grammar. Secondly, 217's edits destroyed several links - specifically, the ones to isle of Jersey and US state. There should probably be a note made about the Skylands somewhere in the article, probably under geography, but its mention in the intro paragraph is pretty unnecessary. --Xanzzibar 08:12, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

According to the American Census Bureau Website--“Although some experts consider religious affiliation a component of ethnic identity, the ancestry question was not designed to collect any information concerning religion. The American Census Bureau is prohibited from collecting information on religion. Thus, if a religion was given as an answer to the ancestry question, it was coded as an "Other" response.”

Hey, I've never used this before so I don't know if this will be seen anytime soon or not, and I don't have a citation for this, but the name New Jersey actually derived originally from New Caesar, if someone better with this stuff than I am could find a reference for this and edit the intro paragraph that'd be nice. Mhl26 02:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• This is the only link i found on the subject: [10]. I am very hesitant of charging the intro paragraph based on this one source. Michael Greiner 03:08, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

list of towns

I just modified the section on "important towns" to explain the political division of the state. It's not especially well-written, so if anyone wants to redo it, feel free, but i think it's interesting to note this information. I think that PA, MN, and maybe OH are the only other states that use the borough/township division the same way NJ does.

All of them have townships, none of them use townships the same way. See Township (New Jersey) and Township (United States) for more. Pennsylvania is closest. Septentrionalis 20:55, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject: New Jersey

I invite all of you folks participating on the Talk:New Jersey page to consider participation in Wikipedia:WikiProject New Jersey (or WP:NJ for a shortcut) which is endeavoring to fill in many of the holes that exist in the complete web of New Jersey-related pages. The forms of government have all been completed (see City (New Jersey) for a starting point. The New Jersey Legislature page has been modified to add the municipalities in each district. Pages have been substantially modified to list all of the members by district in both the New Jersey Senate and the New Jersey General Assembly. Pages for individual legislators are being created and as of now the Senate is about 35 of 40 done and the Assembly has 20 of 80 completed. A page explaining New Jersey's unique Board of Chosen Freeholders was created, listing the structure of county government for each of the 21 counties. Much help is needed to fill in details on federal, state and county representation by municipality, and a dent has been made in 25 of Bergen County's 70 municipalities. We could use a lot more hands, both to fill in the missing pieces AND to think of what else needs to be done. Alansohn 17:55, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Constitutional Amendment

I have updated the section on Government to include the basic facts of the Constitutional amendment approved by the voters yesterday, which creates the position of Lieutenant Governor (effective with the 2009 election) and provides for an interim system of succession until the first Lt. Gov. takes office. The interim system is that in the event of a vacancy (as opposed to a temporary absence) in the Governor's seat, the President of the Senate will become Governor, not Acting Governor, and will give up his/her Senate seat. (Personally, I believe this interim system should have been the permanent solution to the "succession issue," but the Legislature decided to create a Lt. Gov. and the voters agreed, so, oh well.) This raises another issue. The article mentions that the Governor of New Jersey is the most powerful Governor in the U.S., which is widely accepted among political scholars. However, one of the reasons for this recognition is that the Governor is the only statewide elected official in state government. Once this is no longer the case, will the NJ Governor still be recognized as the nation's most powerful? I do not know, but perhaps that question could simply be mentioned in the appropriate paragraph of the article. Does anyone agree/disagree? Neutron 21:15, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

• I assume ,the only duty the Lt.Governor will have will be to preside over the New Jersey Senate (in place of the Senate President, who'll become much like the US Senate president pro-tempore), however the LTG's duties are yet to be defined. The Governor will still be as powerful ,because he/she will (if Lt.Gov. duties aren't spelled out) assign what duties LtG will perform. Again I'm assuming, PS: The reason for a Lt.Gov., is to ensure the succession passes to an offical of the previous Governor's Party. Mightberight/wrong 22:15, 15 November, 2005 (UTC).

• I'd say the Governor of New Jersey is no less powerful by virtue of the presence of a Lieutenant Governor. As the Governor / Lieutenant Governor would be elected as a matched set, the Lieutenant Governor would only be granted those poweres delegated by the Governor and no more. The Lieutenant Governor position ensures that there is a clear successor to the Governor, who was elected by the voters on a statewide basis (ignoring the possible succession of a former Lieutenant Governor who has replaced a Governor, who then appoints a Lieutenant Governor, and then the new Governor steps down), who will be of the same party and who doesn't create separation of powers issues. It's not a great amendment, but I think it was necessary and better than the status quo. Alansohn 22:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
  • I agree 100% Mightberight/wrong 0:01, 16 November 2005 (UTC).

Typos to be fixed

In the population figures for the largest municipalities, there's a digit missing in Paterson. Can someone fix this please? Bruxism 04:44, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

"with high temperatures ranging from 77 to 86, and high temepratures reaching 100 degrees." this doesn't quite make sense. Perhaps the first "high" should be 'regular' or 'average'? AnarchyElmo 02:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Culture

Coheed and Cambria mentions the Jersey Devil in one of their songs

There are many sentences in the Culture section of the article that briefly mentions how some band or some movie films one scene or mentions a single line that pertains to New Jersey, which is quite obviously not relevant enough for the article. Before, people had even placed on high school comedies and plays onto the list! The music+TV/film sections have to be reorganized, and the unimportant bullets removed or placed onto a separate page like Culture of New Jersey or Music of New Jersey. AndyZ 00:08, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Governor/Acting governor

In addition to the recent Constitutional amendment, legislation was just signed changing Codey's and (retroactively) DiFrancesco's totle to "Governor" I will change it in the wikibox, but I think there are a few other referneces that need to worked out. Oh the confusion —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.218.29.233 (talk • contribs) .

Self Serve or lack thereof

Something I've always been curious about... why don't they let you pump your own gas in NJ? Is this a legal prohibition? Is it still in effect? EikwaR 06:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

It is a legal prohibition, it is still in effect, and who the hell knows why? You can't pump your own gas in Oregon either. Ostensibly both states have safety concerns, but they apparently fail to notice the prominent lack of gas stations blowing up in the other 48 states. Oh well. Gas is generally still more reasonably priced in NJ than in California, even with the self-service. TCC (talk) (contribs) 08:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

From how you phrased your initial question, it seems you think of it as a bad thing... however, I've never met anyone who's complained that he or she has had to pump his or her own gas. Instead, it's usually disgust that you have to do it yourself (or have to take extra effort to have someone do it for you) when you're outside of NJ. I also remember reading somewhere (not WP, though) a pretty good article on the "issue," and it said something about the extra cost of having to pay people to pump it for you is so nominal it's not something anyone would want to give up so that they'd have to get out of their cars and actually do something other than sit there, mostly due to the low price of gas anyway due to the many refineries (Elizabeth, New Jersey and the New Jersey Turnpike smell, anyone?). Additionally, when people are in a rush and attendants don't feel like being fast, it's not unheard of (unseen of?) for someone to get out and do it themself (although they/the gas station/both [not sure exactly] could technically get a ticket, I've never heard of a "gas pumping" ticket... and suprisingly, although it happens, it's pretty rare that I see it). Obviously, none of this is scientific, just personal experience that seems very typical of what acutally happens. But yes--if there were ever some serious proposal to legalize pumping your own gas, I'd definately strongly oppose it... //MrD9 21:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing... just strange, to a resident of the SelfServe48 where "remove card quickly" from the reader slot on the pump is a bi-weekly ritual. Anyway. Thanks for your answers. EikwaR 03:39, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I've heard it rumored (without anything to back it up) that while safety concerns are the stated reason for the law, it's kept around because it provides a number of low-end jobs. (Again, it's just something I heard, and I've never seen anything to back it up.) As a new New Yorker who lived in NJ for most of my life, I'm not sure how I feel about being able to pump my own gas. On one hand, it's quicker, since you don't need to wait for an attendent to start the pump, and then come back and finish up. On the other, you actually have to get out of the car and deal with it, which can be a pain when it's cold and/or raining. (The most annoying part is that in NY, you have to hold the nozzle the whole time; you can't just set it up to "flow until full.") Such is life, I suppose. —LrdChaos 04:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Your "rumor" is probably true... I mean, illegals can now get NJ licenses (or whatever they call them, driving privileges taht cant be used for identficiation) now, so.... And while it might be faster to do it yourself sometimes, unless it's a busy time of the day (rush hour) and you have to wait (which would be the same if it were self-serve, too, I mean self-serve doesnt mean no lines at peak times), they're usually quick about it. I mean, pretty much by the time you turn the car or (or dont, but your'e legally supposed to, I believe) and/or pop the tank and hit the window down button, there's usually a person there). It's just different, probably one of those "differents" that each side will prefer the one he or she is most used to, which is why I would never want to do it myself. Plus, like you said, you have to get out of your car to do it... even in the cold, rain, snow, heat of summer, wind, .... //MrD9 05:26, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

So what's the problem with having some islands self-serve and some full-service? That's what many stations do in many states. -- Sholom 14:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

It's just the way things have been for a long time, and there's no big push to change it. NJ has some of the lowest gas prices around anyway, so although the idea is occasionally mentioned, there aren't people clamoring in the streets for self serve. —chair lunch dinner™ (talk) 16:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, just wondering, but, fellow New Jerseyians, is it just me, or is it (no self-serve gas) almost something that we're proud of as a state? Sort of like, ironically, it seems many people are proud that, as a state, we have the highest auto insurance rates in the nation... I mean, if you're going to be up there, why not be the best? (It's not like they're going to go down, either, so...) //MrD9 23:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

It's a matter of emphasis. You could be from out-of-state and declare in shocked tones, "What! You mean you're not allowed to pump your own gas in New Jersey?" Or you can put a better face of it and say, "You don't have to pump your own gas to get it for a reasonable price in New Jersey!" TCC (talk) (contribs) 23:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I lived in PA for a while and got used to pumping my own gas. It's really not such a big deal, but if it's really cold or really hot, or raining/snowing/etc., I longed to be in NJ and have someone else deal with it. Also you have to be careful not to need gas if you're dressed up to go somewhere - a lot of places are really nice and clean but sometimes they can be a little dirty. There are full-service places in PA but they're harder to find, I've heard the service isn't reliable, and I think you may pay more for it. NJ manages some of the best prices around and I've almost never had to wait for service. I really hope they don't allow self-serve here, just because we'd probably lose most of the full service. --Laura S 18:28, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I heard on the news maybe a couple of days ago that Gov. Corzine is considering self-serve to help combat high gas prices. IMHO, that's kind of rediculous as we already have the lowest gas prices in the area (one reason to be thankful for the smell in Elizabeth....). I had no problem having my gas served to me on a silver platter until I went to college in Pennsylvania: sadly, the girl whom I'd been trying to impress had to teach me how to pump gas. (Shakes head in disdain....) -- MusicMaker5376 18:52, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Do you have to tip the guy pumping gas? That would sure add a lot to the cost. 162.84.151.101 23:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

No. You didn't even have to tip them back in the good old days when they'd wash your windshield and check your oil. TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

It is actually illegal to tip the person who pumps your gas (well, illegal for them to accept anyway). And about Corzine's attempt to take away our privilege during the 2006 budget crisis, he received more letters from people in support of the gas law than on any other issue. That is how strongly New Jersians feel about not pumping our own gas (myself included). Aufs klo 20:00, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Princeton, Middlesex

1. Princeton is not a city. Legally, it's two municipalities: one a borough and the other a township. (The Princeton post office actually goes considerably beyond Princeton Borough and Princeton Township, encompassing parts of Somerset and Middlesex counties, as well as more of Mercer County.) More importantly, niether its total population nor the character of its downtown are such that the term "city" applies. It is known locally as a "town", as are most municipalites (especially those with downtowns) that are too small to be considered cities.
2. Middlesex County usually provides among the largest pluralities for Democratic candidates in the state. I don't know on what basis MrD9 considers that bad or nonsensical, but I'm changing the article back to reflect these facts. Dvd Avins 08:58, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

• I partially reverted your edit about Middlesex County. First off, by changing it to: Princeton, Middleex County, Essex County, and Hudson County, the state's two most urban counties, you're stating that Middlesex County is one of the two most urban counties, which it is not. Besides, by moving it there it looks like Princeton is part of Middlesex County. However, Middlesex County is towards the northern area of the state, so Middlesex County fits nicely in the sentence More suburban northern counties in the orbit of New York, such as Union and Middlesex, also trend Democratic. AndyZ 15:48, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, the mention of Princeton (along with that of Trenton) is subordinate to "Mercer County" in the paragrpah. I didn't write that. It's not parallel to the way other counties are mentioned, and I've been wondering why it's written that way. I think the author meant that only parts of Mercer County are Democratic (Princeton and Trenton are not near each other, if you're considering the sacle of the county.) Perhaps the mentions of Princeton and Trenton should just be deleted. (Edit: I see now that it's approximately parallel to the way Newark and Jersey City are mentioned. Dvd Avins 17:47, 11 March 2006 (UTC))

Both Mercer and Middlesex are generally considered Central Jersey, though that's somewhat subjective. Most people in New Jersey think they live in Central Jesrsy and that whatever's 10 miles south of them is South Jersey. People in Wildwood think Camden is Central Jersey. Still, the Mercer-Middlesex border more or less forms part of the New York-Phildelphia media market boorder, so if you're going to divide the state into three (rather than two) lateral strata, I think they're both "Central".

Lastly, talking about Princeton Township and not Princeton Borough when discusiing Democratic strongholds nis just wrong. The Township is less Republican than it used to be, but it's the borough (the central, built up area, which has its own municipality) that is a traditional Democratic strength.

Huh? Princeton Township has had a Democratic majority for years. Septentrionalis 01:39, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't want to get in an edit war; I'm not committed to my own wording. But if, as I think I remember, Middlessex generally provides the second largest (behind Essex) Democratic pluralities, it should be listed in the top part of the paragraph, not in the 'also' part. Dvd Avins 16:17, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I made a couple of minor changes to the paragraph; can you take a look again? AndyZ 19:43, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

It was not your content that I had meant to revert, but it was your wording. The way in which you had written your statements did not seem to make sense. Additionally, although many people use "town" or "city" generically even for places that are neither towns nor cities, distinguishing between them ("the city of Trenton and the town of Princeton") makes it appear like one is one and other other is the other (if you had said "cities of"/"towns of," it would be much more obvious that you had been using colloquial terms, but by using a different one for each, it implies that each one is the word you used before it. However, while this did make up part of the reason for my revert, the other main reasons were that someone totally messed up something with city per capita incomes and changed the first part of the article to make no sense whatsoever (including putting half of it in an "Intro" section--real professional. Sorry if my intentions were misinterpreted, but because of the town/city thing and the lack of a clear parallel structure, I thought it would be better to delete than to keep (since I wasn't sure how to reword it "accurately"). //MrD9 23:28, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Most liberal?

I don't see how "Socially Jersey is considered one of the most liberal states, if not the most liberal state in the country after Massachusetts." is supported by the citation given. For one, the cite relates to a single specific issue (abortion); secondly, NJ is ranked 11th. The other cite relates to another single issue (gay rights), and doesn't compare NJ to other states. Thoughts, anyone? -- Sholom 05:35, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed 100%. I read the changes, checked the links and also came to the conclusion that the statement was unsupported by the facts, even the potentially biased ones provided. I toned the statement down "one of the more liberal in the nation..." and eliminated the Massachussetts reference. See my edit for the details. Alansohn 06:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Oreo?

Removing "Oreo Cookie" as having been invented in New Jersey (from "Miscellaneous information" section). The Oreo was invented at what is now Chelsea Market in Manhattan. Nabisco might have been headquartered in New Jersey, but Chelsea is the "birthplace" of the Oreo, according to Archie Mack, Senior Category Business Director for Oreo[11]. --Chancemichaels 15:12, 23 March 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

American Flag?

Can anyone support the notion that the American Flag is a "New Jersey creation"? Betsy Ross was a resident of Philadelphia. If it refers to Francis Hopkinson, while there is a possibility that he may have designed it, why do we think he did so in New Jersey? Hopkinson worked in New Jersey for a time, and represented the state in Congress, but was a native of Pennsylvania and lived in that state while he was a delegate to the Congress. He was later a judge in PA. I'm removing the reference. If someone can provide a valid claim, we can add it back. --Chancemichaels 18:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

What do you want from us New Jerseyites? (or is it New Jerseyans? Who knows?) First it's the Oreo Cookie, now it's the American Flag. Will the next thing you'll tell us be that our distinctive aroma isn't even our own? Please let us wallow in our delusions about cookies and decorative national banners and just leave us alone. On a more serious note, Hopkinson is credited as being the flag's creator. The first Flag Act, passed on June 14, 1777, was enacted while Hopkinson was an NJ delegate to Congress. Seems like there's some connection, but there should be a more definitive source provided. I would suggest marking it as requiring a source, rather than removing the claim. see USFlag.org for a rather equivocal source that could support an NJ connection. Alansohn 19:27, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I only want accuracy. We know for a fact that the Oreo wasn't created in New Jersey, and it seems highly doubtful that the American flag was a "New Jersey" creation as well. Although Hopkinson was a delegate from New Jersey, and took a job in New Jersey for a time, there's no evidence that if he designed the flag he did so in New Jersey.

Following your link, the only place referenced for Hopkinson is Philadelphia, where as a delegate to Congress he would have been spending much of his time anyway. He's a curious figure in the state's history, since he was a Pennsylvanian who didn't spend much time in NJ before returning to PA as a Congressman who then took a job as a judge in PA. Again, it's only about creating an accurate encyclopedia. Asserting that the flag was designed somewhere is a positive claim, must be defensible and in the absence of any supporting evidence should not be included. --Chancemichaels 20:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

First Submarine?

While adding Joe Piscopo, I noticed that someone has already tagged the claim "first submarine" with the notation that the submarine article disagrees. Is this whole section erroneous? I'm starting to think that it should be researched item by item for accuracy. --Chancemichaels 15:27, 14 April 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

• I say we just trash the trivia section and integrate any important facts into the rest of the article. Many objections on WP:FAC include the inclusion of a trivia section (which is trivial). AndyZ _t 16:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I would tend to agree. Some of these items have been flat-out inaccurate, and most belong elsewhere (in the Culture section, for example). Who wants to help clean it up? --Chancemichaels 17:12, 14 April 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

• • The statement now made is correct; it was neither designed nor built in NJ, but it was used (unsuccessfully) in Jersey waters; see David Bushnell. We should also include Solomon Andrews of Perth Amboy and his flying machine[12].....Septentrionalis 16:34, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Constitution of 1844

Did not deprive women and blacks of the right to vote. The 1776 "constitution" was an act of the legislature, and it was reinterpreted by legislative action in 1807. Better to discuss its making the counties senatorial districts, and the resulting alteration of county boundaries. Septentrionalis 03:11, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Contradict-other

Unless someone like Llosoc can explain why this template is here, I'll be removing it in short order. TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:19, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

It's really hard to say whether or not there is a contradiction. I would assume that the author of the other article placed this tag on all fifty state pages, as the breakdown of demographics tends to contradict some of the race issues raised in the article. However, the extent to which and the norms at hand would reduce the conflict to a minimality. -- MusicMaker5376 02:31, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Except that racial data is drawn from the census, where respondents self-identify when they report race. "One-drop" theories and other such nonsense have nothing to do with it. TCC (talk) (contribs) 02:35, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

It should be reverted. To place such a template, without an edit summary or note on the talk page, isn't helpful. The user should come to the talk page and suggest how to improve the article and discuss the issue. -Aude (talk | contribs) 02:38, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Few large cities

"For its overall population and nation-leading density, New Jersey has a relative paucity of classic large cities. As of the United States 2000 Census, only four municipalities had populations in excess of 100,000. With the 2004 Census estimate, Woodbridge has surpassed Edison in population, as both joined the 100,000 club."

This is true, but Jersey City and Newark are the two smallest (by land area) cities of the seventy-five most populated cities. If Newark, Kearny and Jersey City were one incorporated city for example, it would be less than a square mile larger than Boston and have a similar population to Boston (29,108 less according to the 2004 census information). Or if the Gold Coast were one city it would have a population 17,080 more than Boston and be 11.5 square miles smaller. I think it is worth mentioning the cities' land area because that has an effect on the dearth of large cities.

Agreed. I've had to explain this phenomenon to non-New Jerseyans many times.Armandtanzarian 17:55, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Local foods

A recent off-the-wall geographical observation that was inserted into the article (which I reverted) got me thinking there ought to be a section on characteristic New Jersey delicacies. The only ones I can think of offhand are Taylor Ham and the corn rye from the Pride Bakery in Bayonne. (AKA "Pride bread" or "Bayonne rye". It was very well-known years ago; I don't know if that's still true.) Any others? TCC (talk) (contribs) 03:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

How about salt water taffy? User:Zoe|^(talk) 23:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

That's right, it was invented in Atlantic City. TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

While Pride Bakery still makes corn rye, it is no longer owned by the original family. The last I heard, it was owned by the Alessi family (Bayonne Durable Construction, South Side Commons Mall).

Petridis hot dogs are also a very well-known Bayonne delicacy, along with Pompeii pizza.

Panzarottis, anyone? Jersey John 01:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Stoner Status?

This may seem dumb, but should there be mention of New Jersey's Stoner status in America?

Until I read this article, my impression alone was New Jersey was the large bastard child of New York City.

Im not alone, juust ask most Americans and they may respond something like "oh yeah, these guys from Jersey"

Its mainly due to bad publicity by movies like Jay and Silent Bob Strike back, but I'd bet most people would never know New Jersey had a good financial situtation (the per capita income) until they read this article.

Should there be mention of this "Stoner Status?"—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.151.56.35 (talk • contribs)

You know, you're right. That did seem dumb. —  MusicMaker 06:42, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Resorts and so forth

There is alot of famous resorts there like the new york Giants Stadium—Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.11.152.191 (talk • contribs)

Giants Stadium is not a resort. It's a stadium. --tonsofpcs _(Talk) 04:31, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

However, yon troll may have a point beneath his trollery. It might be worthwhile to have a section on resort and recreational areas in the state. (The shore is magnificent, something that cannot be fully appreciated until you move to someplace like California. All that beach stuff you see on TV and in the movies? Propaganda!) TCC (talk) (contribs) 05:01, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Hackensack River

I added the Hackensack as one of the state's major rivers under Geography. It forms part of a county border, crosses a state line, played a key role in the industrial revolution and waters the eponymous Hackensack Meadowlands, known to most as simply "The Meadowlands."Armandtanzarian 18:20, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Newark City Subway

The sentence: "The Newark City Subway is the only subway system in the state." is not quite accurate. The PATH is definitely a subway for all of it's run east of Journal Square. In fact, according to some, as a heavy-rail line it's more of a subway than the NCS, a light-rail line. Anyway, should it be changed to "wholly in the state." Or should we remove the sentence and get on with describing the NCS.Armandtanzarian 18:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd describe the NCS as the only single-city subway, and then mention the PATH. Dvd Avins 22:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

outdated and misrepresented income statistic

The economic section says that the median income in New Jersey is $55,146. First of all that is the median household income and second of all that statistic is from 1999. Also the statistic's source should be quoted. I believe that that statistic was pulled from the US Census Bureau's 2000 American Community Survey: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts?_event=Search&_state=04000US34&_lang=en&_sse=on

The actual median income - per person, not per household - is $35,134 for 2004; [13]

The actual number is a lot lower than what is represented on the main page.

Budget crisis

Is it possible that you guys create 2006 New Jersey budget crisis similar to the 2006 Puerto Rico budget crisis article? I know nothing about New Jersey and would like to see this event explained in detail. —Drowne | Talk 15:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

2006 New Jersey State Government Shutdown, is the article I have finally found. As of this writing, it's not even linked to the New Jersey page. Signed, JJJJust 01:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

PATCO

Why no mention Port Authority Transit Corporation in the rail section? J.reed 19:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Recent edit by User:208.46.144.131

[14] I suspect a copyvio on grounds of style and the fact that sources are cited that are not actually given in the references, as if they were simply retyped verbatim. Google yields nothing. Anyone recognize this? TCC (talk) (contribs) 21:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

corruption

I was surprised to find no mention of New Jersey's long history of corruption. It has to be one of the most corrupt US states, if not the most. This article has a decent overview of NJ's corruption - [15]--Paraphelion 10:00, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

And I am surprised that texas does not mention its horrible literacy rate. Want to delve into the problem further? I am sure you will find things missing from all of the articles.

However you are not surprised enough to mention it on the entry for Texas.--24.215.203.46 21:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Current event tag

The article has the tag, that it "documents a current event". What current event? New Jersey itself is not a current event. That tag should be removed, in my opinion, unless someone can support the argument on what's current about "New Jersey". Wjhonson 23:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

The tag was added after this edit. The article currently states this issue was resolved 6 July, so I will remove the tag as I do some other editing. Gimmetrow 01:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

New_Jersey#Climate

The New_Jersey#Climate section has been in the text a while, but it makes little sense. The table of temperatures seems artificial (even numbers, goes up and down by 10s) and no source or reference is provided. I think it should be cut unless refs are provided. Gimmetrow 20:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Women's income - clarify

This sentence bears investigation: "Women in New Jersey earn the highest per capita income as stated in a 2002 article in the Newark Star-Ledger." Highest over... other women? Men? In general? State to state? I'd appreciate a context. Thanks. --Spesek 20:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Photographs of our cities in towns in New Jersey

Hello, everyone. I am new to Wikipedia but I am responsible for the photographs in the Elizabeth, New Jersey page. If anyone would like me to photograph their town and post here, please by all means, let me know. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dagrecco1982 (talk • contribs)

That's very nice work on the Elizabeth page. You obviously went to a lot of trouble, and your photography is technically very good.

I'm sure that any photos you care to contribute would be most welcome, but what I'd like to see is a representative sample of what various areas of NJ are like. I grew up near places like South Branch (in Hillsborough Township, New Jersey and Neshanic Station (in Branchburg Township, New Jersey and a bit more of a village there than Neshanic itself) which are very different from the cities near NY and Philadelphia. We certainly should see the larger cities mind you: Newark, Jersey City, Camden, Trenton, Elizabeth, etc., but since that's all most people think of when they think of NJ there ought to be more. Some pictures of the shore would be nice, especially Island Beach; there are the Pine Barrens, Cape May, the woods and mountains in the NW part of the state, and smaller towns all over the place. Imagine contrasting, say, downtown Lambertville with downtown Newark. TCC (talk) (contribs) 22:23, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

VERY nice work there. The photos on the current page do VERY little to represent the diverse areas of NJ.. this section could definitely use some work there.

Demographics

With this edit, the demographics section changed from listing "white non-hispanic" to "white". Most states seem to list the "white non-hispanic" percentages, eg New York and Virginia. Pennsylvania appears to be having an edit war over this at the moment, but also originally had "white non-hispanic". Shouldn't this section be consistent among US State articles? If so, it seems the established form was to cite the "white non-hispanic" percentage. Gimmetrow 02:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Since this section references the U.S. Census, we should follow that form. [16] It lists:

• White persons
• Black persons
• American Indian and Alaska Native persons
• Asian persons
• Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander
• Persons reporting two or more races
• Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin
• White persons, not Hispanic

Hopefully we can avoid politics that way. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 03:05, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, most if not all US State articles list the "white non-hispanic" percentage, as did this state article until the recent change. I've not noticed any prior discussion of this change. Gimmetrow 03:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The U.S. Census data indicates that both should be listed. I favor that option. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 03:23, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that would be ideal. However, I would also like to see consistency in all the state articles. At most a handful, and possibly none, of the state articles list all these percentages. Is there a general "US States" project? Gimmetrow 03:35, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

"White non-hispanic" is not a race any more than "White non-jewish" is. It would be reasonable to list both the white percentage, and the white non-hispanic percentage if one also listed the black and the black non-hispanic, the Amerind percentage and the amerind non-hispanic percentage. I'm given to understand that the reason there's a "white non-hispanic" number is because of a congressional mandate, not because the demographers at the Census bureau thought it important, although I admit I can't find a cite for that.

Yes, there's both a WikiProject United States and a WikiProject U.S. States. ClairSamoht 04:24, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

An editor recently changed the demographics listings from "White, not Hispanic" to simply "White". The editor has also changed this in a couple other states that I know of. Since most US States articles currently list the "White, not Hispanic" percentages, I have initiated a discussion about this change at WP:STATE. I would ask that the demographics section not be changed in this and other articles until the discussion has reached consensus. Gimmetrow 13:06, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the line about the film ["School of Rock" primarily being filmed in NJ although it was "supposedly set in NY"] as it was primarily filmed and staged (most major parts) in Staten Island, NYC. Jack blacks "house" was a building on the North Shore of Staten island (an old theatre) and the "academy" he taught at was Wagner College on Grymes Hill.

Size

Holy moly...this article is 99 kb. It's huge! How can this be reduced? Metros232 21:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

One of the things I think should be examined first is the list of cities. We could probably just reduce that to only the cities above 100,000 or a list of notable cities (reducing it to 100,000+ would knock out Camden and Trenton which might seem odd). Maybe just the top ten cities by size? Metros232 23:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, are the music and television/film sections really that necessary? There are a ton of bands from Jersey, a ton of movies filmed in Jersey, lots set in Jersey...do we really need to list them all? Especially if none of them are referenced. Metros232 23:42, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The entire section Prominent cities and towns is redundant with the referenced list articles. If there are no objections, this section should be deleted. The photos can go somewhere else, as appropriate. --Ishu 15:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I've been thinking about how to reduce that for some time now and have no objection to removing it, Metros232 15:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, now the article is tagged as over 100 kB. So this discussion becomes more important, and it's time to consider splitting some things off. I agree that many of these lists are redundant.

• We can eliminate the Prominent cities and towns lists that are duplicated in List of municipalities in New Jersey (by population). Maybe we keep the "top 10" list?
• We can eliminate the list of Colleges and universities that is duplicated in Post-secondary education in New Jersey.
• We can eliminate (or move) anything on the Music list over to the article Music of New Jersey.

Any objections?--Dalmatian Mommy 16:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

It's been a week since I posted this question. I've begun this task by removing the list of universities which is completely documented in the main article: Post-secondary education in New Jersey. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dalmatian Mommy (talk • contribs) 15:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

As long as the topics are all categorized and linked to from the top, why get rid of information, unless totally irrelevant? Having information that other places don't have is Wikipedia's strength...

Article Disputed

Under the title "Twentieth Century" the following is mentioned: "The 1960s race riots in Freehold are mentioned in the Bruce Springsteen song "My Hometown"." There weren't any race riots in Freehold. Nor are riots mentioned in Bruce Springsteens song. It mentions racial tension and a racially motivated incident. This item should be removed for its gross exaggeration of the events. 71.48.99.115 02:54, 24 October 2006 (UTC)AJK

Here are the lyrics in question (2nd verse):

In `65 tension was running high at my high school,

There was a lot of fights between the black and white, There was nothing you could do, Two cars at a light on a saturday night in the back seat there was a gun, Words were passed in a shotgun blast, Troubled times had come to my hometown,

My hometown, my hometown, my hometown

I don't know if riots is the right word here but it would fit the general events of NJ at the time. Even though Springsteen is from Freehold the exact town is given in the song. Michael Greiner 04:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

No, "riots" isn't the right word at all. TCC (talk) (contribs) 04:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I think at the very least the beginning of that sentence should say, "The racial tensions of the time are mentioned...." That will eliminated the incorrect statement but preserve the reference to the Springsteen song.71.48.99.115 01:13, 26 October 2006 (UTC)AJK

Sorry to Beat the Horse - Colts Neck and Rumson

Hiya - as a Central Jersey resident (it does exist), I though perhaps Colts Neck and Rumson would be listed under small towns, as several prominent entertainers and sports stars live there...

Also, doesn't NJ have the highest property taxes in the nation? I don't think I saw that mentioned.

Dave Van Ronk's "Garden State Stomp"

For those of you unfamiliar with it, this is a song by Dave Van Ronk, the lyrics consisting solely of the names of places in New Jersey. See here: [17] This should be mentioned somewhere in the article, but where it should go is not immediately apparent. Hi There 04:20, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

the opening line says something about lee hotti.. that really annoys me can someone edit that out.

New Template

I want to switch to these collapsible navboxes, anyone have thoughts? The open ones for the United States and individual States and Counties are making clutter. Template:New Jersey temp Template:New Jersey temp Template:New Jersey temp

Interesting, but I don't think its necesary in this case. There are 2 navboxes and they are at the end of the page. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 15:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Added

Clementon Amusement park to the Theme Park list as it is a popular amusment park in South NJ. Also clementon is a notable town as it gets thousands of tourists each year to go to clementon amusement park.

External Link Request

I would like to see NJville.com added to the external links as a New Jersey Resource. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.242.249 (talk) 03:11, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

• Its also a commercial site considered as spam, so I don't think so. Michael Greiner 22:17, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Majority vote

Anon has edited now, several times, to expand the lack of Republican victories to all state-wide elections, and not just presidential. As Michael Greiner noted, Christie Whitman did win an election during that time - but I suppose it should be noted that it was a plurality/simple majority, not a full majority. I'm finding the issue troublesome, though, since I'm not sure what intention the original author had, or if there were any other, more minor state-wide elections that might be relevant. --Xanzzibar 04:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Although the statement "no Republican has won a majority of the statewide vote since 1985" (with the exception of GHWB's 1988 victory) is entirely accurate, the version mentioning the same and including Whitman's plurality victories is acceptable, though redundant, because it was mentioned that Republicans had won a statewide contest in 1997. Also, there are no "minor" statewide elections in New Jersey. The only statewide contests are U.S. Senate and Governor.

Lists, lists, lists

There are several lists that comprises most of their sections. For example, the lists of colleges and universities takes up 80% of the Education section, while the Prominent cities and towns section is almost entirely redundant with List of Municipalities in New Jersey (by population). Can we eliminate lists in cases where other articles reproduce them? --Ishu 07:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

In addition to eliminations, many lists here could also be shortened. Show the top five or ten of something, not the top 50. AlexiusHoratius 13:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

And also that there is 21 countys it is the 4th smallest state in America!

Rutgers Photo

For a University with several campuses and colleges, is that really the best photo to represent the "different architectural styles" of the school?

Highest percentage of Jews in the country?

Under Demographics, it states that New Jersey has the highest percentage of Jews of any state in the U.S. However, when you look at religion, it states that 4% of the state's residents are Jewish. When you look at the New York article, it states that 5% of the New York population is Jewish. Obviously, New York has more.

One of the main problems I've noticed with articles about U.S. states is that they don't collaborate with each other. They often contradict each other and have outdated info. This is just my observation as someone who has been to an article for every state.

68.49.1.207 17:23, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Whoever the article sheriff is that decided to revert my change and not even bother to respond to this question is; congrats to you, you have brought back false information.

Unless my eyes deceive me, someone even edited the comment I made when I wasn't a registered user yet.

If my eyes or computer do deceive me, tell me how I can fix it. It's almost as if everything is exactly the same as before, hmm...

7FlushSetzer 03:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, because you simply removed any reference to the Jewish population instead of fixing the one that was there, your edit was taken for vandalism. There are people who would do such a thing out of pure anti-Semitism and not for any good reason. As it happens, NJ still has the second-highest percentage of Jews among its population, and as this is on par with the other ethnic groups mentioned it's still significant enough to mention. I corrected it and added a reference. TCC (talk) (contribs) 06:21, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that then. Thanks for solving the problem :)

7FlushSetzer 17:15, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

"State number"

Okay. It took me a minute. I thought it might have been vandalism, but I was wondering why we would have an official state number. I wouldn't put it past the legislature to spend a month debating it. ("I think it should be seven!" "I think it should be pi!" "NO IRRATIONAL NUMBERS, DAMMIT! The people want an INTEGER!") Maybe that heading should be changed to something like "Order of Admittance into the Union", rather than make it sound like something that was chosen like the State Animal or Vegetable? I really can't be the only moron who was lucky that the talk page took awhile to load.... —  MusicMaker 06:00, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I just went ahead and removed it. I'm pretty sure we don't have an official state number, and our order of admission is irrelevant in the context of that box. --Xanzzibar 06:06, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Garden State?

Why New Jersey's nickname is "Garden State"?

All I was able to find is this, or this one. --Shmaltz 01:32, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

It is because, especially in the 1800s, New Jersey did have a lot of "specialized horticulture", for example fruit tree orchards and smaller fruit and vegetable farms. Some of it continues today. Some examples are cranberry and blueberry production. New Jersey is now 2nd or 3rd in the US for cranberries. There are some big cranberry bogs in the south, I think more in the Pine Barrens. Tomatoes grown in NJ are marketed as "Jersey Fresh", at least in NJ... Spettro9 22:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I live in Cumberland County, and it wasn't until I was in high school that I realized why people might think that "Garden State" is a misnomer. Everything around me is farmland. EVERYTHING. The farm a mile from me is the largest producer of mint in the Western world, Hammonton, just a few miles north, is drowning in blueberries, corn fields, eggplant, cabbage, and, of course, tomatoes. I can't even eat a tomato before July; those orange things grown in California aren't tomatoes. I don't know what they are, but I won't touch them. Maybe I should go around and take some pictures to add to the article. —  MusicMaker5376 13:32, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm the same way. I grew up on one of those farms MusicMaker speaks of (well, in Pedricktown, but still the same area), and I still don't understand why people have such a negative image of the state. I guess if people's only perception of the state is Newark International and the Turnpike, I could see it, but speaking from experience, it's not like that at all. In fact, my family farmed 600+ acres (owned 200 of it) with everything you could think of: strawberries, cucumbers, peppers, squash, eggplant, corn, tomatoes, watermelons, blueberries, pumpkins, and much more. So, the nickname still applies to this day, despite some people's preconceived notions from Hollywood. EaglesFanInTampa 14:32, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe a section on "The Garden State" is warranted -- I'm thinking between the History and the Demographics. I'll try to take a couple of pictures this weekend. —  MusicMaker5376 21:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

References

Is there any way possible to fix the references in this article? Miranda 07:24, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

"Fix" in what way? -- Alucard (Dr.) | Talk 11:46, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Like on refs 34 and 35, they don't have when the article was first accessed, per WP:CITE. Miranda 17:04, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Climate

The facts about the climate of New Jersey is so bad, to compare with the Swedish Wikipedia and some others site. Write down more about the climate and more specific. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.53.180 (talk) 04:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• I agree. The climate table is quite confusing. am I getting it right? first number is temperature in Fahrenheit, while the second (in baces) is in Celsius(metric system)? --84.60.5.123 (talk) 11:10, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

For my edit, I meant decidious forests. Press olive, win oil (talk) 14:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Music- Ben Vaughn

avant-Folk musician Ben Vaughn, who often comments on NPR, is from the town of Collingswood, and should be included in the music section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.230.27 (talk) 02:27, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

This may only be important to me but I think the song "Jersey Girl" should definitely be listed under Bruce Springsteens songs.Grace08863 (talk) 05:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Size

I know this was discussed before, but at 105K, this article is an ogre. I'm going to tread lightly at first, cutting only material that is obviously too detailed for this article, such as the personal backgrounds of each of New Jersey's Declaration of Independence signers. Please keep in mind that there are daughter articles for a reason. AlexiusHoratius (talk) 14:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Demographics

I was hoping we could change this:New Jersey is one of the most religiously and ethnically diverse states in the country. It has the second largest Jewish population by percentage after New York[15]; the second largest Muslim population by percent (after Michigan); the third highest Asian population by percent, the third highest Italian-American population by percent of any state according to the 2000 Census; and a large percentage of the population is Black, White American, Hispanic American, Arab American, and Asian American. It has the second highest Indian American population of any state by absolute numbers.[16][17][18][19], to something correct, as Arabs are White, according to the US Census definition, and while Indian Americans are technically White, the US Census defines them as being Asian, and Hispanics may be of any race. Thanks Iamanadam (talk) 01:14, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Do you want to propose something to change it to? The article as is, is just repeating what the references say. --Michael Greiner 02:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Please don't take that tone with me, I was just putting out a factual inacuracy, maybe there should be some different references Iamanadam (talk) 21:39, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Politics

Seems rather POV, the part about "then began the decade-long conspiracy". I don't think it's POV to say that new parties have it tough to get a foothold in NJ, but calling it a conspiracy is jumping to certain conclusions which are not evident. 213.84.174.46 (talk) 21:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The current listed pronunciation, /njuːˈdʒɝzi/, has the "New" pronounced as "Nyoo," which is a regional pronunciation ironically absent in New Jersey. Most New Jerseyans pronounce the "New" as "Noo," which (with my limited linguistics skills) should be written [nu:], right? I have lived in New Jersey all of my life, but can anyone back me up on this? Beta.s2ph (talk) 06:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

• I've never heard the "nyoo" pronounced with a "y" that way in all my years in the Garden State. We pronounce Bogota, New Jersey as "Buh-GO-ta" and Buena, New Jersey as "BYOO-na". It should come as little surprise that we "mispronounce" the name of our own state. Alansohn (talk) 06:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I think a similar issue was going on over at the New York article. Someone would change the IPA pronunciation, and then someone would change it back. I'm not completely clear what the standard for accents is - nor what the IPA pronunciation specifically signifies. Does anyone know an editor who is really experienced with IPA? Perhaps they could shed some more light on this. AlexiusHoratius (talk) 08:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I undid a recent edit because it replaced a correct pronunciation, one that corresponded with IPA notation as reflected on the help page, with one that did not. The issues here are: 1. How is the phrase "New Jersey" pronounced? and 2. How is that pronunciation best represented in IPA notation? The "new" in "New Jersey" may be pronounced "noo" or "nyoo," but "jersey" is always "jer zee," with the accent on the first sylable. Is there a better way to capture that in IPA style?Thefactis (talk) 20:39, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Editing avg. income

The new statistics for average household income linked to in the chart on the side contains a different number than is currently in the chart itself. The 2006 list puts NJ at $66,752, which is 1st in America. 67.85.195.225 (talk) 09:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

19th Century

This section should include a mention of Walt Whitman, who in the annuls of American literature is perhaps one of the most recognize, he spent years in Camden writing and revising Leaves of Grass, and creating some of his most memorable works. His home is a historic site, and his tomb is in Camden as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.248.159.92 (talk) 13:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedian Meetup across the Hudson

New York City Meetup Next: Sunday March 16th, Columbia University area Last: 1/13/2008

In the afternoon, we will hold a session dedicated to meta:Wikimedia New York City activities, and have salon-style group discussions on Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects (see the last meeting's minutes).

In the evening, we'll share dinner and chat at a local restaurant, and (weather permitting) hold a late-night astronomy event at Columbia's telescopes.

You can add or remove your name from the New York City Meetups invite list at Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Invite list..--Pharos (talk) 23:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Products

There isn't any mention about NJ's products & I'm doing a report about it so i really need it...

Eyrie88 (talk) 16:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

We are not here to do your homework for you. Go do the research, and add your findings to the article, just like everyone else has done with what is currently in the article. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Climate

Much of New Jersey has NOT humid subtropical climate, it has humid continental. Except in south that has humid subtropical. Please change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.127.126.229 (talk) 00:57, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

New Jersey Economy addition

It states in this article that New Jersey has a GDP of $434 billion, which, according to the *List of countries by GDP (nominal), (per capita), New Jersey would have about the 17th or 18th largest economy in the world. Does anyone think that this information should be included in this article?

Shanem201 (talk) 23:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Demonyms

I've lived my entire life in New Jersey and never once have I heard the terms "New Jerseyite" or "Jerseyite." I'm sure someone, somewhere uses those terms, and that there's some source that corroborates their usage, but glancing at this article today is the first I've seen or heard them. Does anyone know more about their usage? Mjj237 (talk) 11:21, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I also grew up in NJ and have never heard the -ite ending used. It's always "(New) Jerseyan". The only time I ever see the -ite ending is from the people who have never lived in NJ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.243.122 (talk) 03:05, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Dirty Jerseyan here, never heard of the term "jerseyite".