Talk:Nelson Diversity Surveys

Proposed deletion

Can you explain further why this page should be deleted? Having an easily accessible place to find reputable and verifiable university DEI information has been very useful. True, the data set is named after the professor in STEM who performed the research--which has been cited many places. Can Wikipedia explain further why this should be taken down?

By the way I am a faculty member who has run an official wikipedia class so am somewhat familiar with the platform although I would never call myself an expert.

Thank you. Zamboni54 (talk) 13:51, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Greetings. I am adding some citations to this page but have forgotten how to fix the end of the citations. Assistance would be welcome. Thank you. Zamboni54 (talk) 02:29, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello Zamboni54. The reason I proposed the article for deletion was explained in the PROD template. Specifically, I cannot find a substantial quantity of reliable and independent reference material that covers this subject in reasonable depth. I took a look, and all I can find are brief mentions of it. To demonstrate notability, it is necessary that there be a substantial quantity of reliable, independent reference material available about a given subject. I see you added some (and I fixed the issues in the reference templates), but they seem to be similar—for example, the statement Because the NDS were complete populations, which disaggregated faculty by race, by rank, by gender, and by discipline, URM faculty had the documentation to support their concerns is supported by [1], but the reference does not verify the statement it's used on (it verifies the disaggregation, but not the latter portion of that sentence), and is just a brief blurb. You also added [2], which was written by the study's author and is an opinion piece, so is not reliable or independent, and [3]. While Nature is certainly a highly credible reference, it is again just a mention in passing of this subject, not substantially about it. You also cited a book, which is also found on MIT's site here ([4]), but the word "Nelson" does not even appear in it at all. Do you know of any reference material which is reliable, independent, and covers this subject in depth? Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 03:25, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for this detailed reply. As I said I'm a novice editor-wise and have tried to assist improving this entry. As a humanist I'm not the best help here, so I'll direct folks to the talk page, with your explanation. The material Dr. Nelson collected is very important to the 21st century academy so an edited version should stay up. Best Zamboni54 (talk) 13:43, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Well, you clearly object to deletion, and the proposed deletion process is meant only for uncontested cases, so I've ended that. (In the case of proposed deletion specifically, you can remove that template and stop the process yourself too if you object, but it's clear you do so I've already done so here.) I'll check a bit more to see if a full discussion on potential deletion is needed; if you do happen to run across some references with more depth about this subject, please do note them here; I can help with the process of adding them to the article if you need that. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 20:22, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello again Seraphimblade. As I noted I'm a humanist but asked a friend in STEM about this and they returned the following--https://everything.explained.today/Nelson_Diversity_Surveys/--which has many citations. I will try to put a couple in now and hopefully someone else will follow suit. Many thanks. Zamboni54 (talk) 01:48, 30 September 2021 (UTC) Again, thank you--I added a citation or two and some new language which I hope helps. Zamboni54 (talk) 02:16, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Zamboni54, that site is just a mirror of an old version of this Wikipedia article, with all its problems. All that's really needed to demonstrate notability is a handful of sources that are independent of the surveys and discuss them in some depth. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:18, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Good to know. I am appreciative of this community as I try to improve this article without making things more complicated. I did find a couple of citations myself and added those in. Thx Zamboni54 (talk) 16:22, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for trying, Zamboni54. However, I don't see how the source you added here supports the sentence, which states "As the NDS were complete populations, which disaggregated faculty by race, by rank, by gender, and by discipline, along with other data sets and research available through the NSF, URM faculty had the documentation to support their concerns". The source is just a list of resources and doesn't say anything about the NDS "being complete populations", about faculty having documentation to support concerns, etc. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:35, 30 September 2021 (UTC)