Talk:Nanjing Massacre/Archive 11

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Archive 11

Semi-protected edit request on 15 July 2023

I request for Category:World War II crimes to be removed from the External Links and replaced with Category:Second Sino-Japanese War crimes instead, given the fact that the Nanking Massacre took place in the Second Sino-Japanese War and not World War II. 95.151.194.20 (talk) 21:25, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

 Partly done: Added Category:Second Sino-Japanese War crimes.

Did not remove Category:World War II because per World_War_II#Start_and_end_dates: Dates for the beginning of the Pacific War include the start of the Second Sino-Japanese War on 7 July 1937,[3][4] or the earlier Japanese invasion of Manchuria, on 19 September 1931.[5][6] Others follow the British historian A. J. P. Taylor, who held that the Sino-Japanese War and war in Europe and its colonies occurred simultaneously, and the two wars became World War II in 1941.[7]

Xan747 (talk) 22:08, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Citation not reliable

I request the removal of citation John Rabe Archived 2013-07-22 at the Wayback Machine, moreorless.

The statements in that article are not cited and the author of that blog (Bruce Harris) does not have credibility as a known historian or otherwise trustworthy source. In fact, in the about page the author writes:

Although every care has been taken to provide links to suitable material from this site, the nature of the internet prevents any guarantee of the suitability, completeness or accuracy of any of the material that this site may be linked to.

Consequently, this site can accept no responsibility for unsuitable or inaccurate material that may be encountered. Also, there is no guarantee that any of the sites listed will be available at any particular time.

All of the material published on this site is for global distribution. However, the site cannot guarantee that the material is complete or correct. The site therefore takes no responsibility for outcomes that may arise from the use, quotation or reference to the facts, comments and opinions contained within..

— Bruce Harris, Archived 2013-07-15

2600:1700:590:10C0:BC03:EAAD:26F0:6770 (talk) 23:43, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2023

I request for the Category:Genocidal massacres to be added to the External Links, since I do think the Nanjing Massacre fits the definition of a Genocidal massacre. 186.96.212.124 (talk) 11:05, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. M.Bitton (talk) 11:12, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

info in lede

In the lede, readers will find "The massacre has remained a wedge issue between modern China and Japan. Historical revisionists and nationalists in Japan have been accused of minimizing or denying the massacre." and "This accusation has even been made towards the Japanese version of this Wikipedia article (南京事件), which has for several years been described as lacking pictures and expressing skepticism in the first paragraph of the introduction."

WP:GOODLEDE - doesn't satisfy "Broad in its coverage". Is info about activities on japanese wikipedia really neccesary, as readers can find more infomation about revisionists and denialist behavior from different people in the body of the article, including activities on japanese wikipedia? unlike the first sentence, info is very specific instead of being broad. info can be found here under the header "Denials of the massacre in Japan". the same user posted the info in the body (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nanjing_Massacre&diff=prev&oldid=1167999774) and then in the lede (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nanjing_Massacre&diff=prev&oldid=1168340073)

"This accusation has even been made towards the Japanese version of this Wikipedia article (南京事件), which has for several years been described as lacking pictures and expressing skepticism in the first paragraph of the introduction." should be removed from the lede, as info is not broad and can be found in body. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LilAhok (talk • contribs) 21:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2023

I request for Category:Human rights abuses in Japan to be removed and replaced with Category:Terrorist incidents in China in the External Links, since the event took place in China and not Japan. Also I request for the Category:Genocidal massacres to be added to the External Links. 186.96.212.9 (talk) 17:51, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done Replaced Category:Human rights abuses in Japan with Category:Human rights abuses in China, since "terrorist incidents" didn't seem appropriate. Added other requested category. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 22:38, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

"one Japanese textbook"

The seventh paragraph in the Nanjing Massacre#Japan section contains a translated excerpt from a Japanese textbook describing the event. However, it lacks identification of the specific textbook being quoted (both in the paragraph and in the source), and there is an identical paragraph in the cited The Straits Times article, suggesting that it's a direct copy-paste without much effort put into it. The quoted account of the event itself is reasonably neutral/accurate, not particularly controversial, and the paragraph seems to have little encyclopedic value to merit inclusion here. First Comet (talk) 10:11, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

In addition, the fourth and fifth paragraphs of the section ("According to a brief reference" ... "do not mention sexual assaults") are also plagiarism of the same Straits Times article, and the context is completely lost because an irrelevant sixth paragraph discussing Nanjing Massacre conspiracy theories (which is itself entirely WP:OR) is inserted in the middle, making it all the more obvious that the editor did not put much effort into revising the section. First Comet (talk) 10:24, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

The four paragraphs removed for text plagiarism/WP:OR. First Comet (talk) 13:43, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2023

I request for the Category:World War II crimes to be removed because the massacre happened two years before World War II started and also the Category:Second Sino-Japanese War is now under the Category:World War II crimes. 95.147.63.116 (talk) 18:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 09:48, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 October 2023

There is an instance of 'Kuomanting' that should be changed to 'Kuomintang' under Massacre->Causes. Blityc (talk) 12:14, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done Hyphenation Expert (talk) 07:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Dear Japanese speakers

For native or near speakers of Japanese, who well understand Japan's situation on this topic. I am making suggestions for improving notorious Japanese Wikipedia, so I would like your cooperation in the discussion at ja:ノート:南京事件. If you could, I would like you to have a calm discussion instead of getting angry and labeling them as historical revisionism. --Xefon (talk) 18:19, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2023

Under "Debate in Japan", hyperlink the wikipedia article for Akira Suzuki (writer) when he is mentioned to avoid confusion with the famous chemist Akira Suzuki. Spungebubby (talk) 00:50, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done voorts (talk/contributions) 03:16, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2023

I request for Port Arthur massacre (China) to be added to the See Also section. 95.151.245.1 (talk) 18:26, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Liu1126 (talk) 19:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2023 (2)

I request for Changjiao massacre and Panjiayu Massacre to be added to the See Also section. 95.151.245.1 (talk) 19:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Maproom (talk) 18:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2023

I request for the World War II template in the External Links to be removed and replaced with a Second Sino-Japanese War template because World War II started in 1939 and the Nanjing Massacre happened in 1937. 95.151.245.1 (talk) 17:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 01:15, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2024

I request for the Category:Prisoner of war massacres to be added to External Links. 31.124.97.149 (talk) 22:39, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done:. Because first, we never add categories to external links, as WP:LINKSTOAVOID says. And second, next time, please post only one edit request with all your changes. The 🏎 Corvette 🏍 ZR1^{(The Garage)} 13:31, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 January 2024

I request for where it says "The perpetrators also committed other war crimes such as mass rape, looting, and arson" to be changed to "The perpetrators also committed other war crimes such as mass rape, torture, looting, and arson". Also I request for in the section of the infobox called Attack type where it says "Mass murder, wartime rape, looting, arson" to be changed to "Mass murder, wartime rape, torture, looting, arson". 31.124.97.149 (talk) 21:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —Sirdog (talk) 07:22, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Second paragraph

P2, "The speed of the army's advance was likely due to commanders allowing looting and rape along the way." imho requires either a citation or removal. The event itself is truly horrific, but I don't know how a link could be established between rape and the speed of a military's advance.

Looting is perhaps a different story as a reasonable link can be made between that and not needing a supply chain. But still a reference is preferable to a bald assertion. Born-in-nude (talk) 17:30, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I've removed it. Traumnovelle (talk) 02:11, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Japanese Wikipedia

The Japanese Wikipedia version of this article is undergoing a significant upheaval right now. It has leaned (according to non Japanese scholars) fringe and excessively denialist for around 10+ years now. A few weeks ago, a few users managed to make a significant rewrite more in line with the international consensus that managed to stay up for a week or two. It's since been reverted and they've been defending their version ever since, but they're a minority.

I encourage you to keep watching how they change the article in future. This has been one of the most significant pushes ever to fix the article. It'd be a shame if it doesn't stick. toobigtokale (talk) 12:36, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Good news: it appears they've successfully defended their revision. However, we'll need to be consistently vigilant. Very plausible that the article will creep back to revisionism. toobigtokale (talk) 22:07, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

It's down to one person opposing the change now; they've been desperately trying to push back against it. They just tagged everyone who edited the article since 2020 to stir up discontent lol... toobigtokale (talk) 13:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Now they tagged everyone all the way back to the beginning of the article. This yielded one more commenter in support of reverting the article. toobigtokale (talk) 08:22, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

It's been a week or so and nothing. I think we're good. Finally the Japanese version of this article is no longer revisionist. Millions of people have read the previous version of the article and probably believed a chunk of it; no more. Now I can sleep better at night. toobigtokale (talk) 09:22, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Relocation of the capital to where?

The article says the capital was relocated several times, but not to where. Elcalebo (talk) 23:02, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

The Nationalist government moved to Chungking. Traumnovelle (talk) 09:30, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2024

In the section called 'Matsui's reaction to the massacre', I request for where it says "On December 1937, as General Iwane Matsui began to comprehend the full extent of the rape, murder, and looting in the city, he grew increasingly dismayed" to "On December 1937, as General Iwane Matsui began to comprehend the full extent of the rape, torture, murder, and looting in the city, he grew increasingly dismayed" please. 95.147.145.134 (talk) 13:44, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk|contribs) 14:14, 8 April 2024 (UTC)