Talk:NUTS statistical regions of Portugal

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Template:Regions of Portugal: statistical (NUTS3) subregions and intercommunal entities are confused; they are not the same in all regions, and should be sublisted separately in each region: intermunicipal entities are sometimes larger and split by subregions (e.g. the Metropolitan Area of Lisbon has two subregions), some intercommunal entities are containing only parts of subregions. All subregions should be listed explicitly and not assume they are only intermunicipal entities (which accessorily are not statistic subdivisions but real administrative entities, so they should be listed below, probably using a smaller font: we can safely eliminate the subgrouping by type of intermunicipal entity from this box).

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Portugal's NUTS2 and NUTS3[edit]

The list and map of Portugal's NUTS2 and NUTS3 is wrong. Although it quotes a recent (2023) document from the EU (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=OJ:L:2023:087:FULL&from=EN), that EU document is wrong since at least 2011. The correct list of NUTS (and their codes) can be found in an older document, from 2013 (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/345175/7451602/nuts-map-PT.pdf). The map is not 100% up-to-date because a few municipalities changed from one NUTS3 to another in early 2024, but the names of NUTS3 and their grouping as NUTS3 remain the same. The updated maps are https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MunicipalityGroupings_NUTS2%263_Portugal_2024.svg and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NUTS3_Portugal_(2024)_legendado.svg Reference for NUTS as of 2021 can be found in that year's Census; reference for more recent changes can be found here: https://files.diariodarepublica.pt/2s/2024/01/010000000/0025800272.pdf Gazilion (talk) 11:51, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gazilion, I believe that you're the one that got it wrong. The 2023 EU document is in accordance with https://files.diariodarepublica.pt/1s/2022/12/24601/0000200010.pdf. And this is from the CCDR-LVT official page: https://www.ccdr-lvt.pt/2024/01/a-nova-configuracao-das-nuts-2024-na-regiao-de-lisboa-e-vale-do-tejo/. Petnog (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, you are wrong: you provide good reference (thank you!), but that reference proves I am the one who is right (and the SVG map I linked): the 2023 EU document I mentioned earlier includes "Grande Lisboa" and "Península de Setúbal" as two NUTS2 & NUTS3, but the document from Diário da República shows that officially there is no such NUTS's, but rather a single NUTS2/NUTS3 called "Área Metropolitana de Lisboa".

Also, note that CCDR's and NUTS2's do not coincide: CCDR's are internal administration units, while NUTS2's are EU statistical units. Because of how EU funding works, and because Lisbon's Metro Area is much richer than the rest:

NUTS2 "Área Metropolitana de Lisboa" coincides with NUTS3 "Área Metropolitana de Lisboa";
NUTS3 "Lezíria do Tejo" is part of NUTS2 "Alentejo";
and NUTS3 "Oeste" and "Médio Tejo" are part of NUTS2 "Centro".

But for internal administration (e.g. health services, agriculture services, etc.):

CCDR "Alentejo" = NUTS2 "Alentejo" minus NUTS3 "Lezíria do Tejo";
CCDR "Centro" = NUTS2 "Centro" minus NUTS3 "Oeste" and "Médio Tejo";
there is no CCDR "Área Metropolitana de Lisboa";
and instead we have a bigger CCDR "Lisboa e Vale do Tejo" (not "Oeste e Vale do Tejo", as presented in that mistake-ridden EU document) that includes NUTS3 "Área Metropolitana de Lisboa" (divided for practical purposes in two subareas, each on their side of the Tagus river), "Oeste", "Médio Tejo", and "Lezíria do Tejo".

But since this is an article about NUTS's and not about CCDR's, it should reflect NUTS groupings, not CCDR groupings... I say?

Furthermore, as even that CCDR page shows (in accordance with Diário da República), NUTS3 "Médio Tejo" now does not include the municipalities of Sertã and Vila de Rei, which were transferred to NUTS3 "Beira Baixa". That fact is reflected in the SVG map I linked (and that I had included in the article), but not in the mistake-ridden PNG map that was restored back to the article (replacing the correct SVG map).

(You may not know where Sertã and Vila de Rei are, but just compare the outline of "Médio Tejo" in the CCDR site with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUTS_statistical_regions_of_Portugal#/media/File:NUTS3_Portugal.png and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NUTS3_Portugal_(2024)_legendado.svg — you will conclude that the SVG map is up-to-date while the PNG map is not. Also, in the SVG map "Médio Tejo" has 11 municipalities and "Beira Baixa" has 8, in accordance with Diário da República.)

I say that PNG map is mistake-ridden because some of its supposed NUTS3 never even existed with the names shown there:

there was never a NUTS3 called "Trás-os-Montes" (there was a bigger "Alto Trás-os-Montes", now there is a smaller "Terras de Trás-os-Montes");
there was never a NUTS3 called "Beira Alta - Serra da Estrela" (the correct name is "Beiras e Serra da Estrela")

And while there was indeed a NUTS3 called "Dão - Lafões", that has been renamed "Viseu Dão Lafões" since 2013 (if I'm not mistaken).

So, yeah — my version of the article and my SVG map are correct (Diário da Repúblic dixit); the current version of the article and the PNG map (and the EU page) are wrong. As the reference you provided (the authoritative Diário da República) proves.

Gazilion (talk) 22:10, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I feel like we're reading two different documents. The Diário da República I referenced clearly mentions Grande Lisboa and Península de Setúbal (the Lisbon Metropolitan Area still exists, but is no longer part of NUTS). And I didn't link the CCDR-LVT website to talk about the CCDR-LVT. I linked it, because they specify the NUTS of their region. Finally, I'm not saying there haven't been changes or that the old maps don't have mistakes (I agree they do!). I'm just trying to show you that there's now a NUTS II named Península de Setúbal and another named Oeste e Vale do Tejo, as you can see on this image I created a couple days ago: File:NUTS PT 2024.png. Petnog (talk) 05:56, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]