Talk:Myfanwy

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Songs

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I have corrected the following line

"A boed i rosyn gwridog ienctid"

To

"A boed i rosyn gwridog iechyd"

This is an extremely common error and nearly all the versions on the internet have the wrong version. This is probably as a result of people just copying the words from one site to another. The incorrect version has even appeared in a book of traditional song lyrics. So that may be another source. I used to sing with one of Wales' most prominent male choirs and this was the song that was always requested as an encore if we did not sing it duing the concert. Consequently I know the words off by heart. I have also double checked this with a recording made by Bryn Terfel and I can speak Welsh.Neilj 15:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can confirm that the 1931 reprint of the song uses "iechyd" and not "ienctid". Peterwlane (talk) 14:42, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For some reason I have now spotted another error. There are 96 copies of the error visible in google so it seems quite common. It may be the same source that has caused the problem. Someone needs to check these words properly against a printed copy that doesn't get them from Wikipedia! I replaced the phrase "Dan heulwen disglair" with "Dan heulwen ddisglair". This changes the pronounciation. I know it is wrong because I carry this language and the song in my head, but I think that grammatatically the word should change to a dd at the beginning because heulwen (sunshine), which it is describing is a feminine singular noun. I have double checked this with several recordings. So as with the previous change please don't change it back just because you have seen a different copy somewhere. Lots of the copies around the net are incorrect. The phrase roughly translates as "under gleaming sunshine" Neilj (talk) 21:17, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that heulwen ddisglair is the grammatically correct version, and it also appears in a 1966 book of traditional song lyrics (Auld Lang Syne: Words to Songs You Used to Know by Karen Dolby, shown on Google Books), as also does iechyd instead of ienctid. That said, the 1966 book should not be relied on in its entirety, as it also contains gallon instead of galon, which is plainly wrong. I am also slightly suspicious of the fu'n denu'n nghalon (which attracted my heart) because 'n or 'm meaning my do not cause mutation (unlike fy) so I would expect denu'n calon (compare: pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad). However, denu'n nghalon appears in the 1966 book, so if this is a corruption then at least it is an early one. It would be good to find the genuine original. --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 13:18, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have a copy of the 1931 reprint of the original song. I think it was unchanged from the 1875 original, but I have yet to track down a copy of that. The 1931 version has heulwen ddysglaer" -- with the mutation, but of an older form of the word "disglair". It also has "Fu'n denu nghalon", so is using the common trick of omitting the "fy" before "nghalon", because it is only "fy" that could sensibly cause the nasal mutation of "calon". Peterwlane (talk) 14:41, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

browsing internet for renditions of Myfanwy[edit]

Understood. However, i am not convinced that a Wikipedia Talk page is an appropriate place for a general collection of renditions of a given song or suchlike. See also Talk page guidelines, What Wikipedia is not.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 22:47, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source of translation?[edit]

The article already has a tag indicating a need for sources, but what especially needs a source is the English translation so we know it isn't a copyvio. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 08:50, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The current "translation" introduces various amendments to the meaning of the original Welsh words, and looks to be an attempt to 'pretty up' the English text rather than just convey the original meaning. I propose to provide a more precise translation shortly. Peterwlane (talk) 14:44, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source for Welsh lyrics[edit]

In agreement with the earlier section regarding this version's accuracy, we really do need a verified source/version for this page. I can confirm that at least some details of the previous version - the version which is still found in Wikisource and the song's Welsh wiki page, and which is found very widely online - do not match the pronunciation used by many famous choirs when singing this song. This leaves some uncertainty as to which version is to be considered correct, and what we really need is an 'original' or official source for the song. As it stands there are at least three versions, all of which are used by at least some performers. Whether these differences represent unintentional variation/changes over time, intentional alterations or simple error is also unclear. -- Taohinton (talk) 02:17, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have a copy of the 1931 reprint of the song, and will check that against the published book in the Bangor Uni Library, which has a copy. I haven't found a copy of the 1875 publication yet. I will update the article with a ref to the 1931 reprint. Peterwlane (talk) 14:46, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Origin of lyrics, English and Welsh[edit]

Related to the above topic, it should be stated that there are at least two 'original' versions of this song - in Welsh as written by 'Mynyddog', and in English as written by 'Cuhelyn', known as "Arabella". In addition, pages such as this state that "Sources differ as to whether Dr Parry composed the music for an existing poem by Mynyddog (the common belief) or whether Mynyddog wrote the words to Parry's melody following its use with an English lyric by Cuhelyn called Arabella." while this page states that "What is not commonly known to most people the original words accompanying the music were written in English by "Cuhelyn" and titled “Arabella”".

As it stands this page doesn't even mention "Arabella", and states unambiguously that the melody was written "to lyrics written by Richard Davies". However, we currently have no references or sources for this assertion. -- Taohinton (talk) 14:14, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I intend to add references that discuss this issue, though, as you say, there is doubt about which version came first. Certainly, the 1875 and 1931 publications of the song had both versions of the words, with "Arabella" in brackets after the title "Myfanwy", and the Welsh words above the English -- not surprising as both publications were in Wales. Peterwlane (talk) 14:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arabella[edit]

Arabella
Why shoots wrath's lightning, Arabella,

From those jet eyes? What clouds thy brow?
Those cheeks that once with love blush'd on me,
Why are they pale and bloodless now?
Why bite those lips that bore my kisses?
Where lurks the smile that won my heart?
Why now be mute, oh Arabella;
Speak love, once more before we part.

What have I done, oh, cruel fair one
To merit e'en a frown from thee?
Am I too fond, or art thou fickle,
Or play'st thou but to humble me?
Thou art my own by word and honour,
And wilt thou not thy word fulfil?
Thou need'st not frown, oh, Arabella,
I would not have thee 'gainst thy will.

Full be thy heart with joy for ever,
May time ne'er cypher on thy brow;
Through life may beauty's rose and lily
Dance on thy healthy cheeks, as now;
Forget thy broken vows and never
Let thy wakeful conscience tell
That thou did'st e'er mislead or wrong me;
Oh, Arabella fare thee well.

English words by the late Cubelyn to the tune 'Myfanwy' by Joseph Parry

Welsh into English was translated by John H. Price (Dowlais)

Myfanwy

Myfanwy why does wrath's dark shadow So fill those jet black eyes of thine Why do your tender cheeks Myfanwy No longer with loves blushes shine Where is the smile that once ignited? The fire of love within my breast Where lurks that tone thy voice delighted? My heart to flee to thee for rest

How did I wrong thee Oh Myfanwy? To earn that frown of bitter scorn Were thou but playing Oh Myfanwy? Whilst golden chords of love were born Thou art mine own by word of honour Will thou not keep that pledge of thine? I do not seek thy hand Myfanwy Unless thine heart is also mine

May all your lifetime Oh Myfanwy Neath brightest sunshine ever stay And may good health like blushing roses Bring beauty to thy cheek each day Forget those idly broken pledges That o’er my heart did cast their spell Stretch forth thy hand my dear Myfanwy

That I might say one word .......Farewell

This Poem was added to the Myfanwy article in it's entirety, despite the main body of text having just one unsourced mention of the poem as a possible influence. While there may be a good argument to discuss the poem's link to Myfanwy, it is still not good practice to include this Text Box in any article that is not specifically about the poem itself (either in terms of encyclopaedic writing or for the sake of brevity!)

Although I cannot think of a reason to include this in the article, it seems a shame to just delete it. So I've moved it here, in case other users can find a reason to add this or if someone wants to use it elsewhere. Cymrogogoch (talk) 01:05, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the words of the song 'Arabella' should not appear in this article, but its existence should be mentioned. Someone can write a separate article about the 'Arabella' if they think it important enough. Peterwlane (talk) 14:51, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant material[edit]

The mention of the pterodactyl's name in Torchwood, and of the character in the book Rook, is irrelevant to the song: maybe they could be added to an article on the name Myfanwy, but I'll not attempt that. I will delete these sections from this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peterwlane (talk • contribs) 23:22, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Revamp[edit]

I've now amended the lyrics to match the 1931 publication, with some modernization of language noted, and changed the translation to be literal. I've added some refs and brought other general refs in to the main list. Finally, I've added the melody using Lilypond code. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peterwlane (talk • contribs) 18:58, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]