Talk:Missa Cellensis in honorem Beatissimae Virginis Mariae

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"formerly known"[edit]

This statement

formerly known under the spurious title Cäcilienmesse[2],

is both a misunderstanding and a distortion of what is meant in the review cited. Look up any recording of this work made since the article cited was published in 1992 and you will see that usage of the title "Cäcilienmesse" is alive and well, spurious or not so. Often you will find the "correct" title given in small print beneath the "Cäcilienmesse" in large type, because that is how most people know it. It is not going away just because some scholar wills it so. --Pinikadia (talk) 17:04, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I do not insist on the adjective "spurious", but it should be observed that "Cäcilienmesse" is not Haydn's original title. --FordPrefect42 (talk) 22:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If I have to sing in it I would much rather speak of "the rehearsals for the Cecilian Mass" than "the rehearsals for the Missa Cellensis in honorem Beatissimae Virginis Mariae" or even "the rehearsals for the H. B. V. M. Mass."

Still, it would be nice to know whether Haydn was really thinking about St. Cecilia when he wrote it. James470 (talk) 00:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is no evidence that he did. Before the autograph has been rediscovered, the mass was thought to have been commissioned by the Cecilian Congregation of Vienna, so there was never a direct connection to St. Cecilia as person (as far as I understand). My personal opinion is, that "Missa Sta. Caeciliae" was simply a mistranslation or misinterpretation from "Missa Cellensis", but that is speculation. On recent CD recordings (e.g. here), the mass is sometimes referred to as "Missa Cellensis" for short, but for the needs of wikipedia I think we should better stick to the full title, in order to differentiate the piece from Haydn's second Missa Cellensis Hob. XXII:8 (de, nl) from 1782. --FordPrefect42 (talk) 06:53, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good points, Ford. Also thanks for changing Template:Haydn masses as well. James470 (talk) 00:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]