Talk:Miguel Cotto/Archive 1

Unnamed thread

Why did you remove this section? [1] BoriquaStar 21:00, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

There is no need to have a summary of every fight, he will have numerous more fights and all of this is taking space if you see Felix Trinidad you will notice how a boxing page should be estructured. Wikipedia's founder Jimbo Wales said it himself "Wikias are for detail, Wikipedia is for overview", there might be a little pov on the edit too, the low blows didn't affect the outcome or Judah they happened by the begining of the fight and he was wearing a cup, now he did use them as a cheap excuse for getting his ass powned but they are irrelevant, boxing article should only include the result of the fight. {unsigned|24.138.193.20}}

obviously i'm a cotto fan, but it was an important aspect of the fight, like when tyson bit evanders ear off.. [2] or the zab judah mayweather brawl.. these are all detailed about controvesy that occurred. [3] or the Gulotta fight which had many low blows [4] overview is great, but something like that is important to many readers. BoriquaStar 01:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It's not really notable, the low blows didn't influenced the outcome of the fight since the final outcome was a knockout it's irrelevant if he had one point deducted or not, these sections only bring controversy and edit warring see how biased the section of the fight on Zab Judah's page is, adding this might be give a wrong impresion of the fight and Cotto, the fight was widely dominated by Cotto and posting this might give the reader the notion that he cheated his way to victory.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.193.20 (talk • contribs)

there was no cheating but it is what happenned. It was widely documented that there were 2 low blows. The only thing controversial is the headbutt. The Diego Corrales - Castillo fight was one in which Corrales one via a knockout, after he spit out the mouth piece. This is factual information and that is what encyclopedia's are for. BoriquaStar 01:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why this is included in the article as well "Cotto's Welterweight reign began successfully on March 3, 2007 when he retained his belt with a technical knock out victory in the eleventh round over Oktay Urkal, when Urkal's corner threw in the towel, since he was apparently clearly down in the fight, and had just had a second point deducted for a head butt, leading to his corner's belief that the referee was unfair" IF the low blow aren't. BoriquaStar 01:35, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It probably shouldn't be here but that influenced the outcome of the fight since it was the outcome of the fight. {unsigned|24.138.193.20}

Why do you not want to have details in fights? The Golota fight was won by Bowe and there were many low blows there. Same thing with Trinidad vs Vargas. [5] . Past that are you following me around in articles? BoriquaStar 01:59, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

GA review comments

Here are my review comments:

• A bit of WP:MOS-work needs to be applied, primarily,
  • Wikilinking whole dates (e.g. his birthdate in the lead) and consistent wikilinking of dates (so April 8, 2004 should have the year wikilinked as well.
  • No over-capitalisation of section headings (e.g. "Early Years and Amateur Career" should be "Early years and amateur career")
• Wife/children not really needed in the lead, you mention them later (although "...procreated..." is hardly the phrase I'd use, whilst being technically correct, it's very clinical)
• Wikilink specific Olympic Games in lead.
• "aganist"? "droped"? Spell check required.
• "Protection Order" or "protection order" (I think the latter) - be consistent.
• "...taken as a little kid ..." - this isn't encyclopaedic - try something like "As a child, Cotto was taken to..."
• The list in the "Early Years and Amateur Career" section needs to be written in prose.
• Presumably "PTS" means "on points" but this isn't clear, particularly to the non-expert reader.
• Professional career section consists of a number of very short paragraphs, flow them together to improve the prose.
• "...one day..." presumably we know which day? No reference refering to the exact date has appeared so far
• "mishap filled" probably should be hyphenated if you mean the week was filled with mishap. Changed to "eventful" it seems to fit better
• "...their car skid off the road..." grammar. Entire section was removed since it seemed redundant
• "...the driver or the passengers..." we know who they all were, so you could say something like "Cotto and his family escaped injury". Same as above
• The "Winning and Defending The WBO Title" section is a bunch of single-sentence paragraphs.
• "On June 11, 2005 he faced the last man to beat him as an amateur. Olympic gold medalist Mohamed Abdulaev from Uzbekistan. " - why is this two sentences?
• Similarly, why is "During that fight Abdulaev's right eye was swollen shut, after he complained to the referee of not being able to see, the ringside doctor examined his eye and the fight was halted in the ninth round, this way Cotto retained his WBO Junior Welterweight title." one sentence?
• "6th" = "sixth".

The general grammar and WP:MOS issues mean this has to currently fail the GA criteria. Let me know if you'd like this re-reviewed sometime in the future. The Rambling Man 16:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok I have attended all of the points presented in the previous GAC as well as doing some other fixes, my next step will be to renominate the page in the GAC page, cheers. -- Caribbean~H.Q. 00:02, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment: I've moved all eligible images to the Wikimedia Commons. --Boricuaeddie 01:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

GA review

This seems like a pretty solid article, just a couple things I want checked:

1. The first sentence of personal life doesn't flow right and doesn't make sense to me.
2. There's a few one of two-sentece paragraphs, those should be combined.

I'll look and see if there's anything else. Wizardman 19:09, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing, I fused a few two sentence paragraphs and rewrote the first line of the "Personal life" section, if more fixes to it are needed please let me know. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, the only thing I can find still wrong is that some copyediting could be used, such as making sure the voice is good (using "Cotto would fight..." isn't the right style. I'd like to see that fixed up before i promote it. Wizardman 01:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

What do you suggest I use to replace this? - Caribbean~H.Q. 23:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

For stuff like that (that may be the only time it was a problem in this article, but for future reference), voices need to be more active, so instead of "Cotto would fight" it should be "Cotto fought". Wizardman 04:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually I just browsed the page and I believe it was the only time that particular phrase was used, however I changed a line that said "faced" to fought just to be more precise. - Caribbean~H.Q. 04:24, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, the prose still needs a bit of work and it could use some more copyediting (people are still finding spelling errors apparently), but since that's the only problem and it's a relatively minor one, I'll go ahead and pass this. Wizardman 12:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, my copy edit skills aren't really the best but lucky for me Michael Devore drops by from time to time and does some great cleanup. - Caribbean~H.Q. 13:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Removed content

I've removed the bit about his illegitimate daughter - between the non-English sources (which are difficult to verify) and the somewhat tabloidy nature of the section, it seemed to be a WP:BLP violation waiting to happen. If I'm wrong and this is somewhat more important to the subject than I thought, please go ahead and reinsert, but in that case a better explanation of its notability is probably desireable in the article. Phil Sandifer 20:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Listen this was perfectly sourced, and it has been a big issue in the Puerto Rican media, the protection you placed in the page was extremely improper, you don't protect a page because you are having a content disagreement with another user especially if there is not a edit war going on, never. This is a clear misuse of admin tools, and can be interpreted as a violation of WP:POINT. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Coverage does not equate to encclopedic notability. Note that WP:BLP says "it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives." Note that it also allows for protection to prevent BLP-violating material from being re-added. That newspapers are covering this is immaterial - Wikipedia is not a newspaper. How is his affair of encyclopedic relevance? He's a wrestler, best known for his wrestling. Salacious material unrelated to that does not belong in the article. Phil Sandifer 21:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

So if I was a non-admin you would have protected the page just because you feel this is a BLP violation? this is not a clear BLP violation, protecting just because you had a disagreement is the worst example of sysop misuse I have seen lately, I can easily see you locking a non admin out of a stable page because you disagree with that user, improper especially in this case where this can be seriously debated a child out of wedlock (not illegitimate) is as relevant to his personal life as any other of his childs thus its relevant to this page. - Caribbean~H.Q. 22:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see how someone's private life is relevant to an encyclopedia to begin with. Phil Sandifer 22:06, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok lets put it like this, can you find a Featured Article that doesn't cover the subject's personal life? if you do then personal information in a biography its irrelevant. - Caribbean~H.Q. 22:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Lee Smith (baseball). Bobby Robson. Gilberto Silva. And, more to the point, I cannot quickly find a featured article on a living person that covers salacious scandal unrelated to their notability, which is unsurprising since it explicitly violates policy to include it. Phil Sandifer 22:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

If the source is a interview directly with Cotto himself how does that violate BLP? its material that is stated by the article's subject himself not a example of Wikipedia being used as a "primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives", no more reliable that information coming out of the subject himself. - Caribbean~H.Q. 22:49, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Note that the information is relevant not just to him - it also names and reveals personal details about non-notable people - a big no-no. Phil Sandifer 22:53, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Now you are just making excuses, the only thing that can be interpreted as personal information about a non-notable person is the mention of his affair and subsecuent protection order all of wich is directly related to him. - Caribbean~H.Q. —Preceding comment was added at 22:56, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

No - this names the woman he had an affair with, despite her being a non-notable person, and discusses legal action against her. None of this is relevant either to him or to her. Phil Sandifer 23:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

She might not be notable enought to have her own Wikipedia entry but she is well known on the island, including a very controversial appearance at one of the coutry's most widespread shows,[6] she is to a certain extent a public figure in the island her name has been featured on national television several time since this situation began. - Caribbean~H.Q. 23:27, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

(Going left again). But infamy does not equate to notability. Everything about this sounds like a tabloid scandal, not like a notable event. Phil Sandifer 00:01, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

It was not only covered by the newspapers alone, this was actually on WKAQ's news this is one of the three main channels in the island and they are broadcasted in the entire country, a scandal that receives attention nationally in several types of media (including the "serious" media) its more than a tabloid scandal. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I was speaking more in tone - not everything that makes the news goes in the article. You've still given no reason why this is germaine to his notability. Phil Sandifer 04:00, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Boxing Record

I'd recommend restoring the Boxing record & then collapsing it. GoodDay (talk) 20:42, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Statistics

Under nicknames add: The Pride of Puerto Rico. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wildwilly3232 (talk • contribs) 21:29, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

His only nickname is "Junito". "The Pride of Puerto Rico" has been used to describe several sucessful champions, Trinidad, Juanma, Calderón and even the amateur world champion, McWilliams Arroyo. - Caribbean~H.Q. 22:22, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

True, true; it seems the name is applied to whomever is the current PR big name boxer. Just as well to leave it off then, thanks. --Wild Willy 19:43, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Nationality

Since Puerto Rico is a United States Commonwealth and all people born there are United States citizens, shouldn't his nationality be listed as "USA?" I'm pretty sure that "nationality" refers to a persons citizenship. If and when Puerto Rico becomes independant and starts issueing Purto Rican passports, then maybe there will be Puerto Rican nationals, but not until then. He may be ethnically Puerto Rican but his nationality is American. It's not any different than someone being born in Pennsylvania having their nationality listed Pennsylvanian.202.131.186.227 (talk) 22:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Ahem, Puerto Rican citizenship. - Caribbean~H.Q. 07:13, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm.... a non-sovereign entity issuing certificates that are not valid for travel but will allow an individual to vote in local elections. It seems like a pretty loose interpretation of citizenship and seems more like a voter registration card. I wonder if the residents of Guam, Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands are also non-Americans.202.131.186.227 (talk) 07:41, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Regardless of the travel limitation, its still dual citizenship as certified by a legal entity, and we use the one favored by the subject, which is obvious in this case. But that kind of things happen when a nation randomly invades a place that has already received some degree of autonomy and is using diplomatic methods to receive more, while intending just to keep it as a colony for the next hundred years. - Caribbean~H.Q. 07:51, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Huh, learn something new every day. I didn't realize Puerto Rico was a colony, I thought money flowed from the colony to the mother country, not the other way around. Didn't the Colony of Purrto Rico hold an open and free referendum a little while back?202.88.81.126 (talk) 09:35, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

OK. But was he born in Rhode Island or in New York? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.35.50 (talk) 14:05, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Headings for fights

I think it looks more cluttered wihtout the headings, it is much easier to find the information you want when the information is organized under appropriate headings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ollie87 (talk • contribs) 20:58, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Restoring the Professional Boxing Record

I feel the article would be a lot stronger with the Professional Boxing Record restored. If length is a problem we can always hide the chart. Also I noticed that the article passed WP:GA with the record chart intact. Valoem ^talk 20:30, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

• If there is no objections I will restore the boxing record today.Valoem ^talk 17:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Miguel Cotto Was NOT Born in Puerto Rico.

He was born in Providence Rhode Island and moved to PR when he was 2. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.230.130.107 (talk) 21:25, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Boxrec says otherwise. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 22:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

doesn't matter what his dam boxrec says, what matters is what HE says and cotto himself says he was born in rhode island dumbasses stop changing it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.202.123.27 (talk) 02:54, 12 October 2012 (UTC) Miguel Cotto said it himself that he was born October 29, 1980 in Rhode Island on an exclusive interview with Ring Life HBO and that before turning 2 yrs old he moved with his family to caguas, puerto rico. Here is where I got my info http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAdjybGu1DM User:Telldatruf —Preceding undated comment added 03:12, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Why people are trying to lie in what is suppose to be a professional encyclopedia Miguel Cotto was born in Rhode Island HE SAID IT HIMSELF IT'S A FACT you can go check out the Ring Life HBO special interview with Miguel Cotto himself saying he was born in RHODE ISLAND AND THEN MOVED TO PUERTO RICO WHEN HE WAS 2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Telldatruf (talk • contribs) 23:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit requests on 6 May 2012

It was Heavy bleeding from Mayweather's nose.

96.255.36.18 (talk) 07:05, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 15:00, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Cotto vs. Mayweather On May 5, 2012, Floyd Mayweather, Jr. faced Miguel Cotto for the WBA Junior Middleweight/Super Welterweight belt at 154 pounds. Mayweather came in at 151. Cotto had Mayweather against the ropes many times resulting in some damage and a lot of bleeding from Mayweather's nose. Mayweather won via unanimous decision, when they hugged at the end, Mayweather told Cotto, "You are a hell of a champion — the toughest guy I fought." Professional boxing record Alexanderiv99 (talk) 17:32, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 14:57, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

From the Mayweather - Cotto article it states: Cotto had Mayweather against the ropes many times resulting in some damage and a lot of bleeding from Cotto's nose.

This should be "resulting in som damage and a lot of bleeding from Mayweather's nose." It was Mayweather that had the major nose bleed.

142.167.167.173 (talk) 18:53, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 14:55, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 May 2012

In the paragraph section of Cotto's last fight vs. Flyod Mayweather it mentions that Cotto was bleeding from his nose. This is incorrect it was Mayweather who was bleeding from his nose, not Cotto, nor did Cotto every bleed from his nose at any point in the bout. Please edit to reflect the acuracy, thanks!

199.91.200.98 (talk) 16:07, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 14:53, 20 May 2012 (UTC)