Talk:Massively multiplayer online role-playing game/Archive 7

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Center for Disease Control / World of Warcraft

"In World of Warcraft, a programming glitch attracted the attention of psychologists and epidemiologists across North America, when the "Corrupted Blood" ability of a monster began to spread unintentionally into the wider game world. The Center for Disease Control used the incident as a research model to chart both the progression of a disease, and the potential human response to large-scale epidemic infection."

Much as this would have been amusing the article does not actually state that any research took place, it says that the CDC wanted to research it and Blizzard said no. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.3.122.176 (talk) 09:29, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Adding a link, and or mention of MMOABC.com in the External Links section

Hi I would like to add a link to MMOABC.com, as it is a free MMORPG social community website that allows MMORPG gamers to connect with each other and share gaming experiences. MMOABC.com also has free MMORPG game portal services and guild hosting services as well. The URL is http://www.mmoabc.com thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.47.192 (talk) 05:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Adding a link, and or mention of MMORPG Maker in the indie section

I'd like to add a link to MMORPG Maker, and or mention this site in the indie section of the discussion. MMORPG Maker is the most active site on the net for indie MMORPG developers. It has topics on modeling, scripting, hosting, using MMORPG making software, and a list of all current MMORPG development programs (many of which aren't mentioned in the indie section), as well as discussion sections for the most popular MMORPG development software. MMORPG Maker is hosted by the Vault Network, and has a large and active membership.

http://www.mmorpgmaker.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gillvane (talk • contribs) 19:24, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

This would require a reliable source saying how it was the most active indie developer site, rather than your word, and even then it should be a contextual reference in the "Non-corporate development" section rather than an external link. But without a source, it's just an ad, which is against WP:EL. --McGeddon 08:21, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Add an external link and/or mention regarding Massively

There is a new MMOG game news, review and discussion site called Massively. This site is part of the Weblogs, Inc. network that includes Joystiq and Engadget. It's similar to WoW Insider but is dedicated to coverage of all MMOG games rather than a specific one. The URL is http://www.massively.com.

Strider88 19:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

My COMM/INFO 320: New Media & Society team at Cornell University has created (and is currently developing) a wiki dedicated to studying social interactions in MMORPGs. Check it out... we want as much help as possible. Thus, if you have any comments, please leave them in the discussion section, or if you have anything to add (or any edits), feel free to help us out on the main page!

http://cornell.collegewikis.com/index.php?title=Sleepless_in_the_World_of_Warcraft

Subscriptions

which one has the most (so basicly the best) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.218.18.181 (talk) 22:43, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, but their is a fallacy in your comment. Having the most subscriptions only means that the particular game is currently the most popular. The most popular game may not even be the favorite of its users, but simply the most commonly played. --Habap 13:06, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Adding a section on Free MMORPGs and adding Onrpg.com to the external links

I believe we should add a section describing the phenomenon of Free MMORPGs that is going on the net including runescape, maple story and many others. As well, I think we should add Onrpg.com as the place to get free mmorpgs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gabez123 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Evemarketscreen.png

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BetacommandBot 20:26, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

unexplained removal of cited text by anon

Several days ago, 131.111.8.97 (talk · contribs) removed some cited text from the article. I wasn't sure if the edits were vandalism, so I reverted them. However, 131.111.8.104 (talk · contribs) (likely to be the same person as 131.111.8.97) removed the text again. I'm a bit reluctant to make another revert, as some of this user's other edits appear to be legitimate. Despite having been blocked several times, 131.111.8.97 and 131.111.8.97 do not seem to be pure vandals.

Can another editor please check if this user's edits were appropriate?

Thanks. --Ixfd64 (talk) 20:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Just revert it again. If he was serious, he'd question you. If this escalates to edit war then report him(/her). _{WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDEN}^{we need to talk.}• 20:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

WoW Image

Considering it is the most popular MMORPG in the Western World, probably the whole world, I thought it only fitting to add an image depicting the game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NLUT (talk • contribs) 06:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Sandbox/Linear Distinction

I think that this should be somewhere on the main MMO page, seeing as they are very different game-types. I may put this up if nobody is opposed, but I won't be able to manage it for a while. Otherwise, anybody want to handle this? 66.30.107.67 (talk) 03:36, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Gender-bait

Hi. Over at the Gender-bait article, we're wondering if there is a more common term for this behavior (somewhere it could be merged or renamed to), or if Gibson's coinage has achieved common recognition (particularly in reliable sources). Any comments would be welcome at the talkpage over there. Also, perhaps that article could be usefully linked to from the section here on Psychology. Thanks :) -- Quiddity (talk) 21:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Adding a link, and or mention of MMORPG-CENTER.com in the External Links/Resources section

Hello, i would like to add our mmorpg portal to mmorpg wiki resources. We have tons of content, unique and shared. News, MMORPG Lists, from Free to P2P, articles, events and other goodies. The url is http://www.mmorpg-center.com Thanks! --Mmorpgcenter (talk) 20:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

More Information

Could someone reply to my post at the bottom of Talk:Dofus#More Information & explain how a MMORPG is done in Flash? Erudecorp ? * 00:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

The Case of RuneScape

There was previously an extremely detailed and poorly written section in the Economics section about the MMORPG RuneScape. I have recently made many changes in the section, to delete useless information and make it legible. I'm still not toally happy with it - being a player of that game myself, I am not a totally unbiased source.

I would appreciate if someone else would look through that article and see if it is even relevant to the topic, or if some of the details it mentions are unnecessary.

Dirt Tyrant (talk) 02:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

10 million active MMO players worldwide?

Um, that doesnt make sense. World of Warcraft alone has over 9 million active subscribers. According to the statement on the opening page, "MMORPGs are very popular throughout the world, with combined global memberships in subscription and non-subscription games exceeding 10 million as of 2008". That would mean, that with all the popular MMOS out there (runescape, guildwars, everquest etc. etc. etc.) they all have a combined total of 1 million active subscribers... I'm pretty sure that number isn't even close to how high the real number is. So, I have deleted that comment, as I don't see how it could possibly be true.71.207.138.63 (talk) 18:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Reversed some Vandalism

User "JuJube" edited the page to say the following:

"GUILD WARS BABY BEST GAME EVER MADE YOU SHOULD ALL BY AND MAKE AN ACCOUNT IT IS THE BEST MMORPG AND RPG GAME EVER IT IS JUST LIKE WOW BUT WITH NO MONTHLY PAYMENT yeaaa!!!!! BUY IT =))))))"

I reverted it to an older (and better) looking format. Guse (talk) 00:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the revert! in the future, I recommend warning him on his talk page using the warnings at WP:UTM. I have now warned him with {{uw-vand1}}. Greeves ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:42, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Addiction

I notice that there is no section on the addictive qualities of these games and players who become addicted and the impact it has on their social lives, etc. I'm planning on adding a section on that, not sure if any information on that phenomena has been ever introduced.Mysteryquest (talk) 07:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia already has an article on video game addiction, so little if anything needs to be added about the subject here - although short comment of a sentence or two mentioning the other article may be appropriate here. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:22, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Adding link (external links) or mention to massivemultiplayer.com

Massivemultiplayer's content provides a structured fingerprint of dozens mmorpg online communities, news portals and fanpages. The site has been updated regulary for over 3 years and is visited by many regular visitors who look for uncommon informational sources. Link: http://www.massivemultiplayer.com 87.162.66.249 (talk) 16:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC) drakewl

"massively"?

Shouldn't the word be "massive" ? Dexter_prog (talk • contribs • count) @ 23:06, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it should. How do you change the title of an article and is there an easy way to change all the strings 'Massively Multiplayer' into 'Massive Multiplayer'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by OVRKLL (talk • contribs) 15:20, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Massive is grammatically correct, however Massively is the more common usage. The article title should remain as-is. - MrOllie (talk) 16:00, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Wow, I was wondering about "massively" too. It's gramatically incorrect as "massively" is an adverb which means it modifies a verb but MMPORG is a noun and not a verb so the first M should be "massive" and not "massively". Poor hacker command of Engish grammar? Perhaps.71.146.7.143 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

"Massively" is not the common usage. Massive is. It should be changed back. http://runescape.com/ Behold, one of the most popular MMORPG website... Look at the heading, "Runescape, the massive online adventure game by Jagex ltd." --Ghost109 (talk) 17:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

And World of Warcraft, the most popular MMO uses "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game". Example 1Example 2. As far as common usage goes, Google shows 801,000 hits for "Massively" and 403,000 hits for "Massive". And if we look at it grammatically, "massively" is indeed an adverb, one that modifies the adjective "multiplayer". Wyatt Riot (talk) 18:10, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

World of Warcraft is not the most popular; while it does have the most subscribers to their game Runescape has more players due to the F2P option. And in response to the google search... Here's some AOL search results: [1] 186,000 results for massive compared to the [2] 170,000 for massively. And as the anonymous user a few replies above said: "It's gramatically incorrect as "massively" is an adverb which means it modifies a verb but MMPORG is a noun and not a verb so the first M should be "massive" and not "massively"." Ghost109 (talk) 23:29, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Even MrOllie up there who believes it should be "massively" said that "massive" was gramatically correct. That's 1-0 in favor of "massive," the question is which is used more often? I believe it's "massive." Ghost109 (talk) 23:31, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, MrOllie is incorrect. In this instance, "massively" is modifying the word "multiplayer", not "game" or "role-playing game" or "online role-playing game". Adverbs do not only modify verbs, but other adjectives as well. Trust me, I have a degree in English. Wyatt Riot (talk) 00:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Isn't "multiplayer" an absolute adjective? Why would you modify an adjective that has no degree? That's like saying "very complete," or "very dead." There's also one thing, the links you listed to prove "massively" correct do just the opposite. While the first indeed shows about 800,000 hits for "massively" the seconds shows over 1,000,000 hits for "massive." Ghost109 (talk) 01:22, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

"Multiplayer" can indeed be modified; for example, consider "minutely multiplayer" (more than 1 but less than a dozen, depending on your definition of "minute") or even "infinitely multiplayer" (no limit). (Notice the "-ly" forms in these adverbs as well.) And something funny is going on with the links. Google is now showing me 893,000 results for "massively" and 430,000 for "massive" while AOL (which you linked) shows me 184,000 for "massively" and 168,000 for "massive". Unusual because we're getting different results and (at least in my case) the results are changing from search to search. Wyatt Riot (talk) 02:42, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

"Minutely multiplayer?" Honestly I've never heard of that before. But "massive/ly" refers to the size of something, not the number of something. And yeah, seems like Google is messing up. The same search that produced 1,300,000 sometimes only produces 1,100,000. 24.184.206.83 (talk) 19:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC) (forgot to log in) Ghost109 (talk) 19:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey! I realized what you did! In the two results you showed me, you purposely used quotation marks in the google search for "massive," to make it look like "massively" returned more results. Without the quotes, Massive Online role-playing game returns over 2.3 million results, compared to the 980,000 results for "Massively." Should I believe you or the 1 million+ people that disagree? Result for "massive" Results for "massively" Ghost109 (talk) 23:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I put quotes around the entire phrase in both searches so that it looks for that entire string of words and not, say, an article about role-playing games that happens to contain the words "massively" or "massive" and "online". I tried removing the quotes and I still get 3,020,000 results for "massively" and 1,160,000 results for "massive". Clearly something is awry in Search World if we're getting such drastically different results. Wyatt Riot (talk) 01:30, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, so the problem you're having here is that you don't actually know where the term "massive" or "massively" came from. Very few people do, in fact, but luckily for you I'm one of them. Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't Richard Garriott's idea; rather, it was Clement Chambers'. Here's the story. So, Clement Chambers ran a company called "on-line" which was the UK operator of a number of online games including Air Warrior. He was talking to the EA marketing people about one of these games (I think it was Air Warrior II, but I could be mistaken), and at the end of the call they asked him if he had a good way of describing the kind of game that UO was going to be. They figured it was a multi-player game, but so were games like Doom. Was there a better way of describing UO that differentiated it from other multi-player games? What kind of multi-player game was it? Clem, who has something of a gift for marketing, described it as a "massively multi-player" game. UO liked it and used it. Somehow along the line it became attached to Richard Garriott. The reason I know this is because Clem used the phrase on me about 3 weeks later and I said I liked it; he then described where it came from. Other people in his office, who had heard the phone call, confirmed the story without prompting. Everyone thought it was a good turn of phrase. So the answer is that it's "massively" multi-player, not "massive" mutliplayer, because it's an adverb applying to the way in which the games are multi-player, not an adjective describing their size. RichardBartle (talk) 23:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

"Massively multiplayer" does not sound right. Is Runescape a Massively Multiplayer online role-playing game, or a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game? Which one sounds better? Is a MORPG massive or massively? Massive MORPG, or massively MORPG. Runescape starts out with two users, it is a MORPG. Then Runescape gets 100000 users in some time, it becomes bigger, it becomes massive, it is not a Regular MORPG, it is a Massive MORPG. Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Androo123 (talk) 03:07, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Sounding right really has nothing to do with it. Plenty of sentences sound strange yet are grammatically correct. Wyatt Riot (talk) 11:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to point out that when you say "massively MORPG", you're thinking that the word "massively" applies to "game". That's not the case.

Case 1: Massively

"Massively" is an adverb (modifier) for "multiplayer", making it a (Massively-Multiplayer)+(Online)+(Role-Playing) Game, where "massively multiplayer" is considered a two-word adjective with an adverb in it, "online" and "role playing" are another two adjectives, and these THREE are individual adjectives for "game". We can remove any bracketed set of word(s) and still have a meaningful phrase, eg, if I removed the first bracket I would have (Online)+(Role-Playing) Game. The MM in MMORPG has to be taken as a "compound term", they're stuck together and together, they describe "game". They cannot be separated because "massively" by itself is NOT a modifier for "game", it's a modifier for "multiplayer".

Case 2: Massive

Here, MMORPG is broken down into (Massive)+(Multiplayer)+(Online)+(Role-Playing) Game, and we have FOUR adjectives for "game".

In my opinion, both make perfect sense and are grammatically correct. The question is which is the official, or most commonly used one. We should not base our arguments on which one doesn't make sense/is grammatically wrong/sounds funny/etc because both are correct.

And has any of you google stats fanatics heard of the heisenberg uncertainty principle? I think it has something to do with "the more you try to ascertain something, the more elusive the data gets". --Secretss (talk) 18:11, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard it as "massively", that sounds wrong coming from common usage since it's too much to type. Source it or change it back please.169.237.214.145 (talk) 16:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Refs?

There are many places in the article where references have not been added, some of which have not even been tagged with ^{[citation needed]} as needed. I have begun to tag them, and have added a reference, and plan to add more. The rest need to be fixed. --Shruti14 ^{t c s} 17:09, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

also, this ref 'Indystar on game addiction' (number 9) no longer points to a webpage Lovefist233 (talk) 07:25, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Private Servers

This page should have a section about private servers. Many games have given out their source code or haven it stolen, and now many illegal and legal private instances of the game exist. Some player use private servers to escape paying for the game or to to experience "higher rates" (better experience points, more money etc.)

--Backslash35 (talk) 14:35, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Media Section

Should this page have a media section to reflect the mainstream coverage mmos now get such as Age of Conan?

Is there a wiki resource for external mmo sites such as mmorpg.com, thirteen1.com, etc etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gamernut (talk • contribs) 20:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Adding a link, and or mention of MMORPG-X.COM in the External Links section

Dear Editors,

May I mention to put www.mmorpg-x.com link to the external links category, since it is one of the most informative mmorpg news portal, community and free mmorpgs toplist.

Thanks, Admin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggot (talk • contribs) 13:26, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

MMORPG's in Popular culture?

Should we include this section? I can at least think of one - NCIS episode The Immortals —Preceding unsigned comment added by Munchman (talk • contribs) 16:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

absolutely. very good idea. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Added section. It needs expanding though. munchman | talk; 16:37, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems to have been deleted. munchman | talk; 12:19, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Player-created content

I'd like to see more content and discussion on Player-created content (buildings, landscape, etc) and Crafting (Items, etc) for MMORPGs such as ATITD, Eve, Asheron's Call, Ultima Online and others.

Part of it is discussed under: /Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game#Trends_as_of_2008

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.223.6.93 (talk) 22:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Unfair lack of runescape

It's smaller, but not so much smaller that others can be said (and linked so often, isn't there supposed to be a link on the first one only?

And at one point, it mentions Runescape RWT (gone btw), and a further bit of that has been removed. 86.150.226.157 (talk) 13:54, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The article isn't intended as an exhaustive list of MMORPGs, but a summary of what an MMORPG is. I'm not against bringing up Runescape in the article, but what in particular do you think is missing? Tarinth (talk) 16:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Currently active MMORPG lists?

Any thoughts of adding a list of currently active MMORPG to this article that have been running for at least 5 years since the public release? 71.163.118.65 (talk) 23:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Add Link to article on MMORPG and Web 2.0

I'd like ot suggest adding an external link to

http://dougist.com/index.php?p=25

Which is a long(ish) paper exploring the interconection between MMORPGs and Web 2.0 98.14.210.216 (talk) 13:09, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

This link appears to be a review of Journler. Also, you seem to be posting Douglas Barone's blog entries to a number of articles - please be aware of WP:SPAM and WP:COI. --McGeddon (talk) 13:18, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect info on "crowd control" combat role

"Crowd control" characters generally do not actually control NPCs or monsters, and the sentence which talks about them is rather confusing. They use AoE (Area of Effect) spells and skills to mitigate the destructive effects of a large number of monsters attacking the party. Someone who isn't going to be immediately reverted, please fix that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.157.69.169 (talk) 03:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Conflicting information

On the Meridian 59 article, it states "Prior to its release, the term "massively multiplayer" and the acronym "MMORPG" emerged in meetings within 3DO (beating out other monikers such as "large-n game"), as did the now-ubiquitous monthly subscription model." Yet on the UO article it says that the term was first coined by Richard Garriot in 1997. Meridian 59 vastly predates UO. So which is it? There's no citation for the statement on Meridian 59's article's claim, though that doesn't mean it's not true. 24.252.142.184 (talk) 03:46, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

RuneScape as example of non-corporate development

I personally think that RuneScape is a good example of a successful game which started out as a non-corporate development. RuneScape ("the world's most popular free MMORPG") was created as a hobby by Andrew Gower. In the early days it was free, with him getting nearly enough money to keep it running with advertising revenue. It wasn't until several months in that he set up Jagex as a proper company to take over its running and turn it into a commercial venture.--RS Ren (talk) 01:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Adding a link, and or mention of www.TheBurialGrounds.com in the External Links section

For your consideration, I would like to suggest the MMORPG Character Monuments (www.theburialgrounds.com) to the External link section. This is a site dedicated to MMORPG players transitioning from one game to another. The site allows players to erect monuments to their past and present MMORPG characters. Expressing their accomplishments and triumphs in a way that is more robust than a character image showing their acquired equipment. It is also a way to place contact info as well as say what game they are now playing.
Here is one character as an example. Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)

As a part of this project I constructed The MMORPG Finder (www.theburialgrounds.com/Finder.shtml) which you may also wish to separately list. This is a unique code I wrote to aid players searching for a new MMORPG. You can select specific features you want in a game like cost, genre , etc. Then you can rank by gameplay aspects that are important to you, Such as PVE or PvP gameplay, population, performance and support, etc. The code is not meant to automatically find the right game for every player, but to give them good solid leads. As with all MMORPGs, its constantly being balanced and updated.

Thanks for your time and effort.

FrankEsper@hotmail.com

Unfortunately, this site does not meet our external links policy. Wyatt Riot (talk) 22:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Merger/redirect proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

I am going to redirect CCORPG to MMORPG. I am not merging anything as there is nothing verifiable to merge. If anything verifiable comes up, it can either be added to the MMORPG article, or if there is enough for an independent article, the redirect reverted. MuZemike (talk) 02:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

---

I propose that Cooprative-Competitive Online Role Playing Game be merged into Massively multiplayer online role-playing game on the grounds that the former lacks context and notability to stand as an independent article, but can serve to complement the latter if merged. Please discuss below on what should be done. MuZemike (talk) 01:54, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Worlds.com v. NCsoft

Worlds.com recently sued NCsoft for patent infringement regarding many of NCsoft's games. According to Stephen F. Roth, World.com's leading attorney, the patent was originally filed on November 13, 1995. It's patent, 7,181,690, has the title: "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space". How could this patent affect MMORPGs?

Worlds.com v. NCsoft Update
Link to Patent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.155.216.59 (talk) 07:07, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

The patent in question is very broad, basically describing every 3-dimensional MMO in the market. If upheld in court Worlds.com seems to think it will allow them to demand royalties from all MMO developers (and I've yet to find a source saying otherwise). I think it needs to be mentioned to some degree in this article. Frohike14 (talk) 17:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Devious2.png

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City building and player-created content

The Player-created content section is missing information about city building in such games as Shadowbane and Age of Conan. I would add it, but I'm only familiar with Shadowbane a while ago and know almost nothing about Age of Conan. --Intentionally unsigned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.175.18.130 (talk) 00:57, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Siege weapons and sieging

Definitely a big hole in the Trends as of 2008 section is the use of siege weapons and sieging (besieging?). You can see this in (again) Shadowbane and newer games like Age of Conan and Warhammer Online. I think even World of Warcraft is adding this in the Wintergrasp zone of Northrend as part of the Wrath of the Lich King expansion.[3] --Intentionally unsigned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.175.18.130 (talk) 01:12, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Trends as of 2008 should mention fantasy

In the Trends as of 2008 section they should add fantasy mmorpgs as a trend because a very high percentage of mmorpgs are fantasy based. It should also be mentioned that some of the most popular mmorpgs are fantasy based. MA79OZ (talk) 00:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I think this site should be added to the MMORPG page

This site is very popular and suits the page's description. Have a look at the website and go over the Wikipedia MMORPG description please. The site is:

• Gang Minds

 (www.gangminds.com)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.74.79.162 (talk) 03:11, 12 February 2009 (UTC) 

Looks like a login page to me. Wyatt Riot (talk) 03:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

CRPGs

CRPGs is an incorrect term, one must spell out Computer then put RPGs, its early in the article if someone is willing to change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.177.37.202 (talk) 01:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I just erased it. Done.

7h3 0N3 7h3 \/4Nl)4L5 Pl-l34R ( _t / _c ) 21:50, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Mafia MMORPG

The following wall of text was at the above titled article, along with a linkfarm.

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Mafia MMORPGs are massively multiplayer online roleplaying games games in the Mafia genre. Players role play as mafiosi and work together in families or crews in order to attain high net worth, high rank and skills, and/or the respect of (or fear from) their peers. Mafia MMORPGs are browser based games that use either a real-time or turn-based system to permit players to interact with the game. In turn-based systems, turns are awarded at regular intervals, and players may expend these turns in order to perform actions. Turns are typically limited to help ensure that occasional players are not at a significant disadvantage against those who wish to play more often, though there is often a cap on the maximum number of turns that can be accrued in order to prevent a player from returning after a long period of inactivity and instantly having the ability to acquire great wealth or power with little effort. Turns can also sometimes be earned (by achieving certain goals) or purchased (directly, or through account upgrades). However, most Mafia MMORPGs are real-time, and do not have the same sort of turn limitations. Often, certain actions are limited by a throttle that only permits the action once per an interval of time. Players can perform the action as many times as they wish, time-permitting. This system rewards players who spend more time online, but generally give enough opportunities for occasional players to advance that this advantage is offset.

The simplicity of the technical gameplay allows all type of players to create social networks in the games. It is within this social interaction that the strategy of these games truly exists. Diplomacy and team work, alliances and enemies are all determined by the relationship players have with each other. Truly, the programming and the websites are the catalyst for mind games and social microcosms with all the complexities of real world competitions.

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Minus the non compliant linkfarm, this article being an unreferenced orphan establishing no notability, it was a target for likely deletion, but instead I'm bringing it here in case there is anything worth mergeing into this article.

MickMacNee (talk) 03:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

section on instances

Umm, it seems this section is more an advertisment for several games, instead of trying to inform the reader. Further, it has completely bogus information, such as FFIX "pioneering" instancing. I'd say Anarchy online was the first MMORPG to have a robust instance function/system, and the realm, though a bit crude, was the first to use them at all66.190.29.150 (talk) 16:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Needs work

This article needs an update:

• The Player-created content section is pretty weak and is missing several good examples, such as Shadowbane and Age of Conan.
• There is nothing about siege weapons and or PvP.
• The system architecture section should mention ability to transfer players from server to server.
• No mention of unique customer support and technical support issues.
• Mention of how MMORPGs can encourage and spread keyloggers and viruses.
• Spam created for MMORPGs in and out of the game (usually for virtual goods advertising).
• ...

Needs work.

Don't ask me to work on it until Wikipedia either gets rid of stupid articles like List of minor characters in Peanuts or at least begins to treat topics and genres more equally (feh to exclusionists). --Intentionally unsigned 63.175.18.142 (talk) 00:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

how to say MMORPG

Please could people note that you say MMORPG as "meh-morfog" (not meh-morpog). Benjabby 18:45 3 june 2009 (UCT) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.221.246 (talk) 17:45, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Why would one pronounce it with an "F" sound? Better yet, why would anyone try pronouncing it at all? I just "emm emm oh arr pee gee" or "emm emm oh" if I'm feeling terse. Powers ^T 13:56, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

It's worth noting that most people pronounce it "emm emm oh are pee jee", so this discussion is fairly redundant.— Preceding unsigned comment added by AtomicDog1471 (talk • contribs)

Social interactions and Teamwork

I've removed most of the content from these two headings, and merged them into one. The main parts of the chapters dealt with how much the author(s) thought the standard design sucked, and how MMO's were "exploiting the social skills" of players. The sources were a dead blog link and a link to a blog article called "World of Warcraft. MMORPG* Suckage. And Other Stories".

I haven't found any sources for the new article. I'll look around, but I figured that no sources was better than dead or horribly biased citations for the time being. Xect (talk) 20:38, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

New meaning for MMORPG

After searching the internet and from reliable sources, I have discovered another meaning of MMORPG meaning Many Men Online Really Playing Girls, and I place this before discussion to determine if this is reliable enough to be placed under the article. --143.215.104.173 (talk) 18:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

wp:AGF but this sounds very dubious. You haven't given any sources.- sinneed (talk) 19:05, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

That's called a "humorous backronym". It has no place here. Powers ^T 12:24, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Very much addition of non-notable and unsourced game content.

Saga of Ryzom - this is a repeatedly-failed game with very weak notability, a very weakly sourced article. We do not need this unsourced advertisement for the game added to this article, IMO. wp:UNDUE, wp:ADVERT, needs wp:RS. I am going to wait for the editor to finish this as I keep getting edit conflicts trying even to flag it or correct the grammar. I expect I will simply cut most of it. This work would be far better done on the game article, sourced, then any bits that are applicable here copied in, I should think.- sinneed (talk) 17:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Wyatt Riot.- sinneed (talk) 18:55, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Oldest console MMORPG

Wouldn't Phantasy Star Online be the oldest console MMO? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.94.169.225 (talk) 14:41, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

There seems to be some disagreement about whether it's actually massively multiplayer. Powers ^T 16:18, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Popularity

MMORPG are soooooo popular! I just love them and so does everyone else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crank dat Quan Cosby (talk • contribs) 23:45, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Site for the Page

This site is all about MMORPG http://www.mmorpg.com/, I do believe this will be a good contribution to wiki users.

For Non corporate development it might be notable to include Project Darkstar from Sun Microsystems. A framework in which both thread management and persistence handling are abstracted away from the developer.
Other information relating to mmo software development.

Lua is the generally the accepted scripting language of choice.
Most other games use a custom scripting language.
Stackless Python achieves a similiar effect to above mentioned thread management by adding thread wrapable functions.

All mmo games are fundamentally contrained by population density. As the number of viewable clients n within a given volume of space increases the number of interactions that have to be processed by the server and the network goes up by O(n)^2. Think of the clients forming a mesh network. Even 500 clients within an arbitrary sized viewable region equate to 250,000 iteractions processed for every few frames( ie in real time). The problem has characteristics identical to simluated physics.

Companies like CCP who make eve online helped to mitigate this effect by abstracting away full control of an avatar and introducing a diffrential engine to handle the objects on a grid. Aggregated movement commands let the engine determine the future state of the overall simulation. A real time simulation scalable into the thousands persists until all viewable clients have left the volume.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Emccrckn (talk • contribs) 07:03, 23 March 2010

Dropped new addition of spam. See also wp:talk, this is for discussion of the article, not the subject.- Sinneed 13:24, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

References

Origin and popularization of MMORPG

Richard Garriott

"The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott,[citation needed] the creator of Ultima Online, the game credited with popularizing the genre in 1997."

This seems completely unnecessary to me. Firstly, I'm pretty sure the EQ team coined the term. Secondly, this paragraph about Ultima Online and Garriott is superfluous for the introduction. UO is detailed further down the page in the history section. - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.23.232.42 (talk • contribs) 09:37, 25 September 2009

"I'm pretty sure" - source please.- Sinneed 12:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

"UO is detailed..." - not about UO, about MMORPG.- Sinneed 12:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

To Sinneed re moving the new cited version of this to history section: yeah, I support that. —chaos5023 (talk) 21:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

This conflicts with the unsourced bits at teh main article on history, probably bears repeating there... - Sinneed 21:26, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Integrated it there. Thanks for the heads-up. —chaos5023 (talk) 21:36, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Origin and popularization of MMORPG

While I don't find the arguments above compelling, I did fact-check the statement against the references and I don't see support for that content. Cutting the line here for discussion, possible inclusion and possible rework.

The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott, the creator of Ultima Online, the game credited with popularizing the genre in 1997.

The sources are:

• "Game Entertainment Europe". Ge-eu.com. Retrieved 2009-08-13.
• Butts, Steve. "IGN: Ultima Online: Kingdom Reborn Preview". Pc.ign.com. Retrieved 2009-08-13.

- Sinneed 15:56, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

References

Themes: obscure genres?

In the Themes section... Just wondering if anyone else finds it odd that comic books are listed as an obscure genre... In my experience, the fantasy genre is equally as obscure when discussing it with people who are not already players. I guess my point here is that comic books are no more obscure a topic in video gaming than fantasy elements are. N432138 (talk) 13:16, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Conversion to in-reflist cite details

I'm interested in possibly converting the article's citations to the in-reflist citation details format seen in RuneScape and MUD. It does a lot to de-clutter the article source text, making it more readable and editable. Any thoughts? —chaos5023 (talk) 13:45, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Guild Wars instances OR?

Is it really OR that Guild Wars uses instances for nearly everything? I mean, that's pretty verifiable, even if the editor isn't providing a source. (The inclusion criterion being verifiable, not verified.) —chaos5023 (talk) 09:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Ideally, we should be referencing everything, but in practice this isn't always possible (or practical). I was more concerned with the vague statements "Some games" and "Most games", plus the POV use of "take this to the extreme" and the idea that Guild Wars is more notable than other games in this respect. Wyatt Riot (talk) 19:14, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Ah, okay, fair enough; that is indeed some rather musteloid verbiage. —chaos5023 (talk) 20:14, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Monster Player Kill

The article Monster Player Kill has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A search for reference found a single published (gBooks) WP:RS mention in Geektionary: From Anime to Zettabyte, an A to Z Guide to All Things Geek, Adams Media, 2011 . Given the 2011 publication date it could well be sourced from this long unreferenced article. Fails WP:N and WP:V

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jeepday (talk) 23:48, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Open source MMORPG

I would like to add [Ryzom] as an example here - but due to the warning, I'm discussing it first. It is (since 2010) entirely AGPL (source code) and CC-BY-SA (graphics and artistic work - possibly not music?). It's in operation (has been since 2004 or so, but more stably since 2008), is free-to-pay up to a certain level, and has a paid subscription model after that.

So, can I add it, or what?

Ketil (talk) 12:31, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Do reliable, independent sources consider it an extraordinary or important MMORPG in any way? For example, have any sources touted it as a prime example of an open source MMO? Wyatt Riot (talk) 13:15, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Name

The first M used to stand for Massive, instead of Massively, which also sounds easier. Where does the decision come from to here and now call it Massively? Robin.lemstra (talk) 14:03, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

From the sources that call it "Massively" - which (yes OR) was the 1st usage I read. If you have a wp:RS that says it once meant "Massive", that would be interesting.- Sinneed 14:22, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

It is also grammatically correct, "massively" being an adverb that modifies "multiplayer". Wyatt Riot (talk) 21:59, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

How so? If you turn it around it would make Minily, that doesn't sound right.

I believe the manual for Phantasy Star Online describes it as Massive. Robin.lemstra193.172.253.23 (talk) 11:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC):::

The opposite of "massively" would probably be "minimally", depending on context. And as far as Phantasy Star Online goes, please find a reference and then we'll discuss it. From the article on Phantasy Star Online, the "Blue Burst" version (which isn't even an MMO as we define it here) was released in 2004, after Final Fantasy XI. Wyatt Riot (talk) 19:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I'll look for the manual.

But the wording still doesn't sound right, if you change Multiplayer by Driver, it becomes Massively Driver. "He is a Massively Driver" "They are a Massively Driver". Robin.lemstra193.172.253.22 (talk) 15:37, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

The reference of a gaming manual is not what we are looking for, anon. Wikipedia uses published and generally wp:reliable sources. Like papers, magazines, books, widely-respected web sites. A game manual would be a self-published source, and usable only as wp:SELFPUB... not helpful in this case. The driver thing does indeed make no sense, and is not notably similar usage.

Massively multiplayer online game. These are games. They are online "games": online modifies "games". They are multiplayer "online games": adjective multiplayer modifies "online games". They are massively "multiplayer" online games: adverb massively modifies adjective "multiplayer". All this is informal popular usage.- Sinneed 16:05, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

It is not grammatically correct. Although adverbs often modify verbs they can modify adjectives as well. But is massively really modifying multiplayer, or is it doing what every other adjective is doing and modifying game? Hence, the game is a multiplayer game. The game is an online game. The game is a role-playing game. Hence the game is a massive game.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.222.230.9 (talk • contribs) 18:04, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Both can be grammatically correct, but "massively multiplayer" is both the more descriptive term and, more importantly, the term which is supported by references. Wyatt Riot (talk) 05:46, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I just wanted to say this. According to Dictionary.com (link: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Multiplayer ) Multiplayer is a noun. Massively is an adverb. Therefore, Massively Multiplayer is incorrect. I don't want to cause anymore trouble, I just felt like I should do some research myself and report what I found. Ratkinzluver33 (talk) 20:20, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

It can be used as a noun, sure, just as many adjectives can. If you look around--in this article, and in multiplayer video game, for example--you'll find that it's used primarily as an adjective. I'm honestly surprised that dictionary.com only lists it as a noun, but then again I probably shouldn't be: dictionaries can be quite terrible at adding new words. Cheers! Wyatt Riot (talk) 21:05, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I'd say the word massive, like the others, is referring to Game. It's a combination of Massive game; Multiplayer (Game,) Online Game, and Role Playing Game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.196.119.174 (talk) 12:50, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Except that it doesn't. If you read the article, you'll see that "massively" is clearly referring to the number of players involved, not to the size or scope of the game itself. This is what differentiates an MMORPG from a MUD, which is purely "multiplayer". Wyatt Riot (talk) 15:50, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Character Roles

A few days ago, User:EliteShnipes392 added a section titled "Character Roles"; you can see it in this diff. I removed it because it not only appeared to be unsourced original research, the editor basically admitted as much with the edit summary, "I added extremely useful information gathered from experience. I have not taken away any content added by other users." My opinion is, this doesn't belong in the article. Extensive discussion has occurred at my talk page--see User Talk:Qwyrxian#RE: Original Research--none of which has changed my opinion, as I still don't see any [[WP:V|verification]. However, one could argue that this falls under the "common knowledge" exception of WP:V (although, if it does, it certainly needs to be rephrased and likely shortened). Can I get the input of some other editors, please? Qwyrxian (talk) 21:25, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I feel that it's an unnecessary and unwanted section for several reasons. First, WP:SOURCES asks that we "[b]ase articles on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". Obviously, a few primary sources aren't going to spell disaster for the project, but it begins to skew the article away from what reliable sources consider important and towards what companies say about their own products, and we're not here to advertise. That leads me to my second beef with the section, WP:UNDUE: are tank/healer/dps roles really a defining factor of MMORPGs? I'll admit that I play World of Warcraft, and they can be an important factor depending on what you're doing in the game, but they don't have to be. And, of course, just because these roles may be important in one (or a few, or even most) games, is it a defining factor of the genre? I'm sure that all (or nearly all) MMORPGs let you choose your name, but do we care about that? I sure don't. The Common features section is already deficient on reliable, independent sources, and these are the things we should be writing the article around, not writing the article first and hunting for references to support our POV. Of course, that's just my $0.02. Wyatt Riot (talk) 05:01, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Wyatt Riot and extend the reasons for not wanting the character information in Wikipedia. Roles of cleric ("healer") and fighter ("tank") are simply among the oldest that were defined by the formal D&D rules. It's an unwieldy simplification now, because now, for example in DDO, these simply describe attributes of any number of characters -- or even what the person playing a character is willing to do. For example in DDO, when advertising for a party, one asks for a "healer" not necessarily because one wants a particular character, but because the party needs someone who can heal AND is willing to take responsibility for healing others. (That could be two stock characters, and any number of customized ones.) There can even be an expectation set that every player in a party must be able to heal themself (BYOH = Bring Your Own Heals). It might be appropriate to discuss the role characters play in helping others -- that they intend to heal, rather than directly attack monsters, but even this is slippery, as shown in the initialism "DPS" (Damage Per Second): There are characters that cannot heal others. Unsurprisingly, when players compare these "direct attack" characters, a primary criterion is how much damage they do with each blow. But the appropriateness of this is based on particular attack strategies (e.g., "zerging"), where, say, the goal is finish a battle as quickly as possible. Those DPS players could well adopt another strategy -- such as letting stealthy players go ahead of them and do sneak attacks. (That wouldn't necessarily slow the overall game play so much as distance the DPS from the vanguard, and reduce the amount of activity they enjoy, which is hitting lots of things in a frenzy.) Again, being a healer, or a tank or emphasizing DPS has come to mean not just a character, but also an attitude toward a style of play. ELNO Checking (talk) 16:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

You both get to the heart of my objections. I don't actually play MMORPGS, so I wasn't sure, but what I've read seems to imply that these roles aren't universal, or even necessarily common. As I told the editor on my talk page, if xe had a reliable source that said, "It is common for players in most games to design their characters to fulfill certain roles, which are often called etc. etc." then it might be okay to include. But without such a source, i'm not convinced that this borderline OR belongs in this article. EliteShnipes392, please do let us know if you come across such a source, then we can figure out whether that information can go in. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:34, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

MMO Addiction

A sub-article needs to be written up re: addiction to MMOs. Addiction to these sorts of games is pervasive and destructive to families. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arkathman (talk • contribs) 20:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

We basically already have that article, at Internet addiction disorder. It's highly unlikely that the medical community would distinguish between general internet addiction and MMO addiction, so any relevant, sourced info should be added there. If someone wanted, though, it would be reasonable to add a paragraph summary to this article with a {{Main}} link. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

WoW = Most popular game?

"The most popular MMORPG, World of Warcraft, has had over 11 million paying subscribers as of 2009."

Hrm, im sure theres some asian one somewhere like maplestory that has more Gsp8181 14:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Asian subscriber numbers don't compare well with North American numbers, because of a plethora of gaming cafes and whatnot in Asia, as well as Asian MMORPGs often having different subscription models. World of Warcraft is doubtlessly the most popular MMORPG in the North American market. Powers ^T 16:09, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Maple Story has over 100 million users according to Wikipedia's own article, so yes it much larger than WOW. Not sure why WOW is quoted here either, makes no sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.57.51 (talk) 15:36, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Why is this in the lead? I propose to remove it. It has its own article... surely a "See Also" would be enough?- sinneed (talk) 14:06, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

It's in the lead because it's the ur-example of an MMORPG. It's the one best known in the English-speaking world and its subscriber base provides a point of reference for the genre's popularity. (Much as it pains me to advocate retention of a WoW mention.) Powers ^T 14:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

That was the only reason I could think to leave it in the article... but I am a bit dubious of having it in the lead alone. I have to wonder how much of WoW's continued growth is due to free advertising because it is the biggest MMOG in the West, and EVERYONE talks about it.- sinneed (talk) 14:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, a fair bit. (Of course, since it is the biggest, it's had a lot of paid advertising, too.) But we can't censor ourselves just so WoW doesn't get free publicity. I agree that it's possible it doesn't need to go in the lead. Powers ^T 15:52, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I saw your changes -- I think removing the mention of it being the "most popular" makes it more odd to mention WoW in the lead, not less. Powers ^T 12:32, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't disagree. We could just restore it and its flag but... I am looking at the lead at the WoW article for ideas, but fact-checking carefully, some of the stuff there is iffy. Ideas?- sinneed (talk) 16:44, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Agreed that those sources are questionable at best, although the Guinness book may suffice. For wording, I think we're fine if we put the emphasis on providing a sense of scale; instead of "World of Warcraft has 11 million subscribers and is the most popular MMORPG", we could say "The most popular MMORPG, with 11 million subscribers, is World of Warcraft" The difference is subtle but I think it puts the focus in the right place. Powers ^T 17:10, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

• "The most popular MMORPG..." is problematic. The citation for that does not say so as far as I could see. It may be that it should cite the book rather than the web page?- sinneed (talk) 17:24, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Yes, sorry, it's the MMORPG with the highest number of North American users, and it's also the most popular among MMORPGs with a traditional subscription model. It's hard to be both precise and concise. Still, even Guinness just boils it down to "the most popular MMORPG in the world", even though the Korean RPGs have more users by some counts. Powers ^T 12:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

• Probably, that would be the way to say it, by quoting them.- sinneed (talk) 13:31, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

RUNESCAPE IS #1 NOW! RUNESCAPE FTW! Brian Zhao 01:40, 15 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by YOPbottle (talk • contribs) First of all i think WoW gets the Notice due to GBR (guiness book of records) said that it is, secondly asian MMORPGs are often Jam-packed with accounts that are "dead" in comparison to at least "semiactive" accounts which make up the majority of WoW. Not to mention that a action side-scroller would hardly even be considered a "mainstream" RPG since there is minimal customization involved, a key part of all good RPGS multiplayer or not.(Undeadplatypus (talk) 05:34, 29 October 2011 (UTC))

Hotkey MMO?

I was just looking on wp to find some stuff about hotkey based mmos like "what's the origin", "what's the trend", etc. Sadly, I couldn't find anything. The term itself seems to be pretty common, and since more and more MMOS try to leave the hotkey based combat system behind, I thought it might be noteworthy enough to get an own entry or section. Anyway, I wanted to put this on discussion before I take any steps in that direction (or let anyone else do it, since I don't know very much about it). Roman3 (talk) 12:54, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

The important thing to ask is: can this information be found in reliable, third-party published sources? I tried a quick Google search and couldn't find much at all, only forums, blogs, and unreliable link referral sites. I have a feeling that this may be like some niche music genres: it could very well become the Next Big Thing, but it's still under the radar of legitimate game journalism. In any case, if you can find the sources, it's worth including. Wyatt Riot (talk) 13:20, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

WTF?!

THEY THINK WORLD OF WARCRAFT IS THE #1 MMORPG!? RUNESCAPE IS!!!!!! IT HAS OVER 156 PEOPLE PLAYING! WHAT IS THE PROBLEM TO WHOEVER SAID THAT WOW IS #1!? RUNESCAPE FTW! Brian Zhao 01:38, 15 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by YOPbottle (talk • contribs)

Please, no SHOUTING. Second, if you really seriously think the article should change, you need to provide reliable sources. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:20, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

I guess you are right. srry about the shouting. Brian Zhao 22:58, 21 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by YOPbottle (talk • contribs) permision to delete this since obivously this is a pyscho fan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Undeadplatypus (talk • contribs) 05:36, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, World of Warcraft dropped by over 1 million subscribers with their Panda Update, most of them being from China apparently. I have no "Reliable" sources, but I heard it on MMOHut forums. 71.87.114.59 (talk) 13:20, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

WIKI is a MMORPG

Definitely. PumpkinSky talk 02:04, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

... and? Powers ^T 15:08, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm probably not the first to suggest this, but...

Shouldn't this page be called MMORPG since (a) nobody uses the full title except when explaining what the acronym stands for, and (b) for conisitency with titles such as Social interaction via MMORPGs? MMORPG would appear to be the WP:COMMONNAME, and hence, since there is no ambiguity in the acronym, the preferred title, even if it is less formal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.6.96.22 (talk) 18:14, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

The Chicago Manual of Style says that 'The use of less familiar abbreviations should be limited to those terms that occur frequently enough to warrant abbreviation—roughly five times or more within an article or chapter—and the terms must be spelled out on their first occurrence.' If we're going to use a standard, I feel that we should stick with one that's published and accepted academically. Frednotbob (talk) 10:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

We have our own Manual of Style. Woodroar (talk) 12:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Spam issues

MMORPG Games are common but, they are doing annoying advert campains such as:

• Pop-ups (which are annoying)
• And large ad banners

I hope you understand. -Lucas — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.149.99.17 (talk) 10:21, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not include people's personal opinions in articles. Qwyrxian (talk) 14:01, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

No, we don't. Xerxes1337 (talk) 02:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

List of MMORPG Publishers?

I see a "Comparison of free to play MMORPGs," and etc. but no "List of MMORPG Publishers." 71.87.114.59 (talk) 13:18, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I could see a list of prominent MMORPG publishers (CCP, Blizzard, ArenaNet, Cryptic), but a general list of published games (which, by necessity, would have to include dozens of smaller companies in overseas markets) would be huge, not to mention difficult to maintain as companies come and go. Frednotbob (talk) 13:28, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Why not use the Category Tree, instead of a list? They handle really well & you can link directly to categories as shown here: Category:Massively multiplayer online role-playing games

@Frednotbob: - I am told repeatedly by the active members of the wiki gaming project, the size of something is not a factor. If you're really worried about the work, put the ones you feel and let other's do the rest.— Preceding unsigned comment added by IamM1rv (talk • contribs) 11:54, 24 April 2015‎ (UTC)

Wording nit-pick: "common features"

I would change the section heading "common features" to "typical features". It's a list of features that are typically present, not a list of features that all MMORPGs have in common. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.117.15.117 (talk) 03:48, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

"Critical Theory" edit

I'm not sure what we can do with this edit. It's a whole lot of words that really don't say much. (No offense to the editor who added it.) One says a source is about MMORPGS, among other things, influencing work in different says. And another source is about real and virtual worlds connecting via gold selling. And more sources saying what theorists are writing about, but nothing concrete about their actual findings. General summaries of sources are for bibliographies, not us. What we need are the actual findings. If anything, I could see moving these into a Further reading section, but the current paragraphs are rather unencyclopedic and UNDUE. Of course, just my $0.02. (Pinging User:Mc184.) Woodroar (talk) 02:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I removed the paragraphs and added the articles only to a new Further reading section. The only exception was the article from 1967, which can only tangentially be related to MMORPGs. Woodroar (talk) 02:41, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Jargon

This article contains substantial jargon and some unnecessary abbreviations. I've made some changes but I don't understand a lot of what the author is saying, so I've tagged it. Please consider defining terms or using more plain English Chrismorey (talk) 01:21, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Could you point out some of the more problematic terms? Many of the long term gamers who maintain these articles may not essentially pick them out without a non-gamer to point the way. -- ferret (talk) 01:28, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Character

Character's clothes, face features, and even colors are what represents its owner.

Users often create characters that are opposite of their gender. For example, large percentage of female users create male characters. Users tend to create characters that are their ideal type. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1525:5F:EC2E:D88:84BD:715 (talk) 08:24, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

History

When reading over the article, I felt like the history should be explained more thoroughly. Right now, it sounds complete as trying give the reader information about the past, although, it does feel to brief, the small detail is that there is no fluid transition between points in time. The history doesn't give much information about how it changed over the years, a more explained beginning and maybe some details of pros and/or cons that show in history from this movement of MMORPGs.Hutchidd (talk) 00:19, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

After looking at the article again, I see there is the link to MMORPG history page. So, is it still necessary to have the history topic in this page if you can link the source to the end. If it is then its fine to me. It just feels out of place.Hutchidd (talk) 18:45, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Update on New MMORPGs

There should be an update on how MMORPGs have changed with the increase of video games. Especially games like Destiny if you consider that an MMORPG. There could be more but that's the one that comes to mind.Hutchidd (talk) 18:55, 8 October 2018 (UTC)