Talk:Mary F. Hoyt

Mary F. Hoyt was one of the History good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
February 26, 2022	Good article nominee	Listed
February 26, 2023	Good article reassessment	Delisted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on March 8, 2016.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that President Eisenhower praised Mary F. Hoyt, the first woman appointed to the US federal civil service in 1883, as a leader for the hundreds of thousands of women who followed her?

Current status: Delisted good article

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mary F. Hoyt/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kavyansh.Singh (talk · contribs) 09:40, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator: Doug Coldwell (talk · contribs) at 22:01, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments[edit]

Missing a short description
Done

"which was followed by hundreds of thousands of women filling these government positions" — Did Hoyt's appointment to federal civil service the main cause for 'hundreds of thousands of women filling these government positions', or is this just a trivia? Can we rephrase?
Done

"She was a centenarian." — For the lead, can we say that "She died in 1958, at the age of 100", with 'at the age of 100' piped to centenarian?
Done

"Hoyt was born in" — Full name should be mentioned on the first instance in the prose.
Done

"She is a niece of" — should be 'was a'
Done

"Her first job was a favorable position for a young lady" — I don't think this is too important to mention that it was a 'favorable position'
Done

"is a federal law established in 1883 which decided that" — we switch from present to past tense
Done

"US president Chester A. Arthur" — I guess it should be clear by the context the Arthur is American president. Remove US. And my reading of MOS:JOBTITLE is that 'p' in 'President' should be capitalized.
Done

"in the spring of 1883" — MOS:SEASON discourages the use of seasons to refer to a particular part of the year.
Done

"Hoyt produced the highest score" — is 'produced' the most appropriate word? How about received?
Done

"at an annual pay of US$900" — suggesting to use {{Inflation}}
Done

"A letter from President Dwight D. Eisenhower was delivered to Hoyt by the chairman of the United States Civil Service Commission, Harris Ellsworth." — which year?
Done

"Eisenhower's letter explained that a door had been opened for women's opportunities in civil service, and that she was the leader for these opportunities" — we should be either directly quoting his letter, or paraphrasing it. But I am not sure whether we should be saying "a door had been opened" or "she was the leader for these opportunities" or "Hundreds of thousand of women" in Wikipedia's voice
Done

"one fourth" — shouldn't this be "one-fourth"?
Done

"while working at the US Census Office" — was she at "US Census Office" or "Census Bureau"?
Done

"She took a hiatus" — might be worth explaining in the text what this is
Done

"Roger (b. 9/12/1889), Truman (b. 11/4/1893), Alan (b. 10/9/1894), and Elinor (b. 2/15/1896)" — Do we really need to mention the date of birth?
Done

File:US Treasury Department 19th century.jpg — If the author is "Government employee of 19th century", shouldn't it be {{PD-USGov}}?
Done

References[edit]

This version

Suggesting to be consistent whether you use plain citations or specific citation templates.
Done

Ref#1 — Title of the news article?
Done

Ref#2 — Norwalk Hour should be The Norwalk Hour
Done

Ref#3 — missing title
Done

Ref#6 — Plain link; and why is Geni.com reliable to use? WP:RS/P#Geni.com states it is unreliable.
Done

Ref#12 — New York Times should really be The New York Times
Done

Ref#15 — Don't use all caps in reference titles
Done

Putting on hold – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 10:20, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for review. Will get started in resolving the issues.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:48, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kavyansh.Singh: All issues have been addressed. Can you take another look. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:15, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, will take another look soon. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:26, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looking much better; Promoting! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 10:52, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article possibly rests largely on a falsehood?[edit]

This 1965 federal government report on women in federal employment notes the Eisenhower letter but says a Mrs. Brice Moss actually preceded Hoyt in professional civil service employment. There does not seem to be much scholarship on this issue, sadly. I kind of question whether this was really a good subject to write an article about considering the scantness and vagueness of some of the source material. -Indy beetle (talk) 23:06, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Indy beetle: I believe you are misreading the source in question. It says "The first woman appointed to a civil service position was the late Mrs. Brice Moses. As Mary Frances Hoyt from Connecticut, ..., she ..." I think that the only possible meaning for this phrasing is that Mary Frances Hoyt and Mrs. Brice Moses are two names for the same person. She was employed under her unmarried name, Mary Frances Hoyt, and later married someone named Brice Moses, taking the name "Mrs. Brice Moses" as a consequence. (It was common at that time for married women to be known as Mrs. Husband's Name.) —David Eppstein (talk) 20:45, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

- @David Eppstein: Oh dear, WP:TROUT for me. I can't believe I forgot she was married to a Brice Moses. I had read that and I guess it blew past my mind. -Indy beetle (talk) 20:48, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright contributor investigation and Good article reassessment[edit]

This article is part of Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/20210315 and the Good article (GA) drive to reassess and potentially delist over 200 GAs that might contain copyright and other problems. An AN discussion closed with consensus to delist this group of articles en masse, unless a reviewer opens an independent review and can vouch for/verify content of all sources. Please review Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/February 2023 for further information about the GA status of this article, the timeline and process for delisting, and suggestions for improvements. Questions or comments can be made at the project talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:36, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]