Talk:Love the Way You Lie/Archive 1

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NOTE

Why isnt this page being written. It is confirmed as the next single. 124.123.250.36 (talk) 16:03, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

It will be written when the song comes out on iTunes most likely. STAT -Verse 19:20, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
The song was released in Ireland on June 18, 2010 and is currently number 2 on iTunes in the country. Iluvrihanna24 (talk) 01:45, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
source? STAT -Verse 02:06, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Article??

Last week, the song debuted on the UK Singles Chart at number seven! If that doesn't require an article I don't know what does! Iluvrihanna24 (talk) 13:37, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

It also debuts at #1 on the U.S. digital songs chart next week: [1]. This will most certainly guarantee a high debut on the Hot 100 as well. I think its safe to say this is notable enough for an article at this point. - eo (talk) 16:15, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved, per WP:CAPS. jonkerz♠ 22:46, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Love The Way You Lie → Love the Way You Lie — "the" is to be in small cap. --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 21:09, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it should be moved per naming conventions. Not sure why it was not moved before. I don't think a long, drawn-out discussion is needed, WP:CAPS is enough here. - eo (talk) 10:29, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Genre

--German radio refers to the song as "one of the best collaborations of the year, combining pop and rap in a brilliant and effortless way." I'm changing the genre. It's certainly more than 'just' HipHop.-- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.75.201.39 (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Since nobody allows you to edit the genre (or anything, for that matter) without discussion, I guess I'll put it here.

The song features an acoustic guitar in the background, and possible electric guitar chords in the chorus; I consider this song to be alternative hip hop. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 15:52, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

i think its more like R&B or R&B/Hip-Hop Crossover.. --74.46.26.120 (talk) 18:28, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
thats what hip hop is when there's an R&B singer in it. But why can't it also be alternative hip hop? --Zzguitar14 (talk) 07:28, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

cause whats alternitve about it? its hip-hop with R&B Influences! Hip-Hop doesnt have acoustic guitars! But not to make a big arguement, just put it with whatever fits the song best —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.44.84.12 (talk) 22:19, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Ideally this discussion would include links to some reliable sources where someone other than WP editors made knowledgable statements about the genres. Personally, I think it sounds like anarcho-country beat music, with some now-cliché pseudo-Thai folksong in the bridge section, but my opinion doesn't count for much. It's purely OR. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 06:34, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

EDIT REQUEST

is there any need to add that this song is no.1 on the ITUNES chart despite being 2nd on the billboard chart to Kate Perry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.112.112 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

No. And BTW, please sign your posts, adding four tildes (~~~~) at the end. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 06:34, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

STOP!

I'm fed up of people deleting my sentence about Australia in the Chart Performance section! All i write is that it reached number one in Australia and New Zealand and people keep deleting it! I don't need a reference because there is a reference in the Charts section for it reaching number 1! Iluvrihanna24 (talk) 13:52, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Release date

I think the date should be August 9, 2010 because that is the official date release! The other was just a promo single and did not even have a proper cover, the one on Amazon is the official CD Single. Plus in the United States it is released on August 17, 2010 not June 21, 2010. Iluvrihanna24 (talk) 09:29, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Lyrics

I'm not really a Wikipedia cognoscente, but I'm a bit surprised to come to this page and find no exposition of the lyrics of this song, which are pretty strikingly reflective of the modern American social landscape. This has always struck me as part of Eminem's genius. Is it a policy of Wikipedia not to provide discussion of lyrics? Minogaade (talk) 22:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Not at all; go look at e.g. Bohemian Rhapsody. Of course there's a difference between these two songs; one's had over 30 years to be analyzed and discussed and is known around the world, while the other just came out a few weeks ago. Have you seen some worthy discussions of the "Love the Way You Lie" lyrics in notable publications? — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 23:20, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Vevo

Did Eminem tell Vevo that they couldn't censor him in the music video, and if so, is that worth mentioning? 24.255.39.205 (talk) 18:47, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

EDIT REQUEST - YOUTUBE RECORD

Eminem's video love the way you lie has broken a youtube record? SOURCE: http://www.omgmusic.com/news/eminem-and-rihanna-break-youtube-record

(CAN ANYONE LOOK INTO THIS IN MORE DETAIL?, also supply a more 'reliable' source or is this ok?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.121.220 (talk) 21:26, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Releases

I just looked on the US amazon site and it says it is the UK import so it is not being released there. Also, I am confused, on the amazon reference for the uk it says it was released on august 9 but on hmv it says august 30. There are 2 different covers too! I think if the us was an import it must have been released on the ninth to be imported! 82.24.227.215 (talk) 15:16, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Only American and UK chart history : (

Why has somebody deleted that I wrote that the song debuted at #18 in Germany? It is important, so why do you only write every little thing about the USA and UK and just say nothing about Germany? Next to the USA, the UK and Japan it's the most important music industry there and so there should also be said something about the chart history of that song. I noticed this also in other album and single threads and I ain't very pleased with the way it's handled. --79.216.217.31 (talk) 14:17, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

What did the edit summaries say where "your" material was removed? Was it because of a lack of references? Was it deemd too trivial? Were the sources you provided not seen as reliable?
If you have reliable sources for notable chart positions or trajectories from non-Anglo places like Germany (or France, or Russia, or Brazil, etc.) and you provide references when you add the material, then it would probably stay. If it doesn't, find out why (check the summaries) and talk with the deleting editor (maybe it was me!) or bring it here. Oh! you have. In any case, I don't think there's an intentional bias against German results. It's more a case of EN editors/fans trawling through the many Billboard articles and adding every tidbit they see. It's hard for French/German/Swedish/Italian news to keep up. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 16:24, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

OK, if that's how it is, I'm gonna add it again. The one who deleted it, was Iluvrihanna24, but without a reason! Well, I'll write this: "Though it hasn't been released as a CD single in Germany yet, the song managed to debut at #18 there, the second-best new entry, due to digital downloads. In its second week, it reached #7, it's peak position source"

OK or should I change something? --79.216.150.199 (talk) 22:42, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

What's that "the second-best new entry" bit? I don't see that information (whatever you mean by it, exactly) in the source page you point to.
You can leave off the last three words ("it's" is spelled wrong anyway), since it's obvious from the sentence which is the highest (higher) number, and we don't know yet if it's the peak. Best to just leave it out (for now). Also, the Manual of Style says not to use the number sign ("#"), but text as either "number" or "No." See WP:HASH. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 23:18, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, the source that says that the song was the second-best-entry was this, but of course it isn't written there anymore, because now it's showing the charts of THIS week. "Though it hasn't been released as a CD single in Germany yet, the song managed to debut at #18 there, the second-best new entry, due to digital downloads. In its second week, it reached No.7. source 2. source" --79.216.173.48 (talk) 13:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Then I'm afraid we'll have to leave the "second-best" part out. If you can find a(nother) reliable source that says that, you can add it back in later. I would guess that the text you saw might still be somewhere on the MTV.de Website, if you can only find it. I won't be of much help there, since when I try to visit MTV.de I get "helpfully" redirected to to my national version of MTV's site. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 02:22, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Plaintive cries for reason

WHY do you wikipedia keep reverting my edits?!! i am putting the number ones that the song reached on the chart performance section and you keep delting it! it did also go number one in norway and sweden so whats wrong with those countries. and i added they went number one on the uk r&b chart and 3 other us charts! STOP REVERTING THEM!!! 82.24.227.215 (talk) 10:42, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay wikipedia you are really annoying me now!

1) You revert back that it has been number one in Ireland for 2 non consecutive weeks - its 3!!! 2) It IS number one in Sweden and Norway but you refuse to put them in the article 3) I internal link the 'US' but you keep reverting that too!

I SWEAR YOU'RE JUST DOING THIS TO ANNOY ME!! Iluvrihanna24 (talk) 13:24, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I'll make a deal with you: I'll tell you WHY I deleted them if you tell me WHY you added them. Oh! but that's not fair; I've already told you why I did it: here and here and in the edit summary of every edit, and certainly every reversion I make. But it shouldn't be a surprise; you habitually fail to provide references. And in case you've missed it, Wikipedia articles aren't reliable sources for Wikipedia articles. Now I'm waiting for you to hold up your end of the deal. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 13:36, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
So you're saying that the song wasn't number one for 3 WEEKS in Ireland then and it didn't get number one in Sweden and Norway? And whats wrong with making 'US' an internal link??? Iluvrihanna24 (talk) 15:23, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
No, I'm not saying that at all. In fact, I have no freaking idea if it was number one in Ireland for 3 weeks. I don't know it because you didn't provide any reliable source that supports your statement.
What I am saying is that your claims in those cases were unsourced. Specifically, you did not provide a reference to reliable third-party sources which supported what you added. The Digital Spy ref doesn't say anything about the 3rd week at #1, it just says it "returned to the top spot". The references for Norway and Sweden merely pointed to Wikipedia pages, useless for providing verifiability. And I have no idea what internal linking of "US" you're talking about; I can't find a place where I changed that. Do you have a diff? — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 17:18, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Cover art Change?

The cover used now is only being used in certain parts of the world for the Cd Single only. This Cover is being used worldwide. I think the worldwide one should be used, as international covers come second.--Apeaboutsims (talk) 04:32, 22 August 2010 (UTC)


Fanmade Album Cover

The cover of Love The Way You Lie is fanmade by coverlandia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.202.91 (talk) 17:49, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes but multiple websites are confirming the album cover as official. This one for example: http://www.forum.trshady.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=95346&start=0

UK release date

Hi, I don't know what to do. On amazon it says the song is released in the uk on aug 9 but on hmv it says aug 30. And now I have just seen on here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11053572

that the single release is a week away. So what should we do? 82.24.227.215 (talk) 19:14, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Song trivia/reputation or in popular culture

New section for reputation in popular culture:

http://www.hollywoodnews.com/2010/08/30/kim-kardashian-inspired-by-eminems-love-the-way-you-lie/

just an example.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.115.243 (talk) 02:37, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

3 million digital sales EDIT REQUEST

Love they way you lie has reached 3 million digital sales:

http://top40.about.com/b/2010/09/10/rihanna-is-first-artist-with-five-three-million-selling-digital-singles.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.231.27 (talk) 14:03, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

#1 in Spain: References? Or just wishful thinking?

I've been through this situation many times before, but I'll put it in writing here, too.

Some editors have changed the peak for Spain from 2 to 1 in the last few days, without providing any new reference citation or hint about their sources. In fact, none of the editors bothered to provide even the slightest edit summary. The reference cited by the singlechart points quite correctly and steadfastly to spanishcharts.com, which steadfastly (at least at this writing) shows a peak of 2. Consequently I have felt obligated to revert the apparently erroneous changes to #1.

However, the sheer number of repetitive edits from different users suggests that the #1 might be correct. So what I'm asking for here is some reference citation for the source of these edits. Why do you think it's number one in Spain? Do you have some reliable source for these edits, or is it just wishful thinking? If I believe it's correct I might well stop reverting while we wait for spanishcharts.com to catch up. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 20:38, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

And now spanishcharts.com shows it at #1. That only took seven edits (over three days), none of them with edit summaries, six reverts by me waiting for a supporting ref, and this unanswered thread. Gosh, it's great collaborating with you guys. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 03:54, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Music video

How is this true? < Monaghan was cast in the video first, and suggested Fox for the role of the girlfriend. ref "Megan Fox, a los besos con un actor" (in Spanish). Infobae. 2010-07-29. Retrieved 2010-08-18. /ref > ???
Go read the reference: it doesn't say anything about this. I propose that this is deleted, as well as the reference (that adds nothing to this page). 156.111.7.89 (talk) 22:40, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

singlechart

A lot of the singlechart macros for the Billboard charts link to Usher not Eminem. Must have been a copy and paste error. Chart positions should probably be double-checked. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 01:42, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit Request -- Sales

Sold an additional 621,000 copies in the last week (digital sales) in the US.--mikomango (talk) 05:04, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Grammys

Should be added in the Sequel section that Rihanna and Eminem performed the song at the Grammys this year, i know it wasn't in full but either way...calvin999 (talk) 00:08, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Protection

This page is vandalized a lot. I think it should at least be temporarily protected to just registered users. —WIKIPEDIAN Penguin (♫♫) 12:15, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Done. WIKIPEDIAN Penguin (♫♫) 00:02, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Sales

It has now sold 4,926,000[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schane Dogg (talk • contribs) 21:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Skylar Grey Version

I was somewhat surprised to find that there were three versions of this song, though I'm not sure why. I think it should be added that Skylar Grey released a demo version of solely her vocals, especially since she did write the song. PatrickFury (talk) 22:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

She Also released her version on her EP The Buried Sessions Of Skylar Grey. Pug6666 (talk) 01:00, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Added with ref. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 19:15, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

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Queries about accuracy and clarity of prose

I just happened across this article as a reader. I haven't read the whole thing in detail, but a few things are confusing me.

  • "Domestic violence plays a major theme in "Love the Way You Lie" and inspires people who have experienced abuse." - apart from the fact this is grammatically incorrect (I don't expect you're trying to say that domestic violence inspires people who have experienced abuse), it's a bit vague and doesn't appear to be expanded on or sourced in the rest of the article. How does the song inspire these people, and according to whom? All people who have experienced abuse, or just some how have written or been interviewed about it? I don't see anything else on this outside the lead. I did find a comment that the president of the National Organization for Women said that Rihanna was glorifying domestic violence. Other than that, most of the criticism seems to be from journalists.
  • "heavy and explicit use of domestic violence sparked controversy" - so, there was actual domestic violence used in the video? I haven't seen the video, but that suggests to me that there is footage of real violence used, or something like that.
  • Speculation initially arose from fans and critics that the video sought influence..." - how can a video seek influence?
  • "Sady Doyle from The Atlantic magazine focused on the song lyrically..." (her review was lyrical?) I don't see in the cited source where she calls it one of his most inspirational songs. Although a song could easily be both affecting and inspirational; the words aren't exactly synonymous.

--BelovedFreak 14:11, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the comments. The prose needs much work and I have attempted to address your comments.
  • Have re-written a poorly paraphrased sentence. This is sourced in the Writing and recording section: "According to her, the song's theme, domestic violence, is one that few people are conscious of, making it effective."
  • Changed to imagery that suggests domestic violence.
  • Changed to "based on".
  • Again, a poor paraphrase of the quote. Changed to: "Sady Doyle of The Atlantic magazine noted the song to be among Eminem's most 'affecting' tracks".
—WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 14:35, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Comments by Jivesh

Infobox/ Lead

  • Only CD single? I doubt that.
  • What is the (vocals) doing there?
  • its theme domestic violence is one that few people are conscious of, making it effective. Since when are only a few people conscious about domestic violence?
  • Should be midtempo. See how critics normally write the word.
  • Does Kimberly Scott have a page on WP?
  • for Eminem's lyrics > Really?
  • I see 25 charts worldwide ... five million. Make up your mind. What are you going to use? Since this is a music article, i recommend WP:NUMBERS.
  • United States > US ... consistency
  • including Teen Choice Awards, People's Choice Awards and Billboard Music Awards >>> Did he win these? The sentence structure is confusing (at least to me).
  • In July 2010 > This is only a lead. No need for theses details.
  • , respectively > Why that comma?
  • has been performed on eight occasions > What makes this a necessary addition in the lead?

Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:19, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Responses:
  • I have checked archives and R&R. No radio adds. Never heard it myself on radio.
  • Strange but i believe you. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
  • She only produced the vocals per liner notes.
  • It does not matter. Just remove that. It is absolutely normal that someone will produce, this, the other one will do another thing, and so on. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Done. :-)
  • Do you want to say "not many"? I have done so.
  • No. I mean Rihanna has no degree in social studies and her statement is very false. People are well aware of that. I don't believe she was targeting Africa while saying that. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
  • That is what she said. I think she is correct. Your statement is inaccurate. Most people don't even know about the phrase itself. She has raised an excellent point.
  • Corrected, but not linked.
  • No, Scott does not have page.
  • Changed to "its". The focus was on Eminem's lyrics however, not so much Rihanna's.
  • I suggest you read through the MOS again because it is acceptable (and reccomended) that millions, billions, etc are written in words as long as the number of millions is less than 9.
  • What about consistency then? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
  • It is consistent. And if it's the MOS, then it was what should be done. That is consistency. See the chart performance section; you will find exceptions to the rule throughout that section.
  • On the first occurrence, I use Untied States. And I abbreviate in following occurrences.
  • Yes, he did. He was also nominated for them.
  • Read the sentence loud. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Re-worded for clarity.
  • I have a pretty giant section on the making of the LTWYL music video, so I think that detail is fine.
  • It remains unnecessary. The date it premiered is more important that that. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I understand this isn't GAN or whatever, but Calvin999 asked in the review to provide the filming date, so I did. The release date I consider too minor of a detail for inclusion here and development info is much more interesting.
  • Removed comma.
  • Because I haven't listed every event he performed in in the lead.
  • Nevertheless, why specify the number of times? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Eight isn't that great of a number. I don't think it is an issue. I addressed your concern anyway.
(unsigned comments by me) Overall, for an article of this size, I am using a fairly short lead compared to other song articles. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 18:37, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
I will get to this later. I am very busy with "Single Ladies". Jivesh1205 (Talk) 09:43, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Writing and production

  • Link loops and other necessary musical terms.
  • Penguin, I am not a native speaker of English, so that's why I am asking instead of stating directly. Is this sentence correct? guitar sounds to be a main feature
  • "Love the Way You Lie" track - why that word? We know it is a song.
  • he had purchased from Argos - What makes this a necessary addition? Does the location of where a musical instrument is bought add anything significant to help the reader understand the text?
  • when she lived in Bandon, Oregon - same
  • Don't you think you are over-using the word track in the section?
  • Grey told Billboard magazine that Eminem is a "really cool guy" for his sense of humor and that she was pleased to collaborate with someone who, according to her, is "a true artist. Grey said that Eminem's lyricism impressed her, as she is "blown away constantly by him. - What makes this a necessary addition? This should go in Eminem's bio page, absolutely NOT here.
'Note I hope you know what happened in "Single Ladies" FAC? At least, the quote box in "Single Ladies" was discussing about its cultural impact but the one here is simply too fancrufty. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:26, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Responses:
  • Linked.
  • He wants to make guitar a prominent part of hip hop music.
  • Re-worded.
  • During production, it was not a song. It was merely a track in the making.
  • Can you explain the difference? Now I am understanding why I was once told not to use the word track.
  • Well, whoever told you that is wrong. Producers and mixers tend to refer to their recordings as "tracks" when they work it out on editing software. A song is a finished product.
  • And that's why I said the one who told me that was right. I used to think songs and tracks are the same things. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  • It all depends on the context: saying "The track debuted at number two on the Hot 100" is strange isn't it? The word refers to something that is part of a compilation (album, etc.) or a recording under production. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 13:12, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Replaced with "using a the first guitar he had ever purchased". This detail is also in the source and it is important.
  • Everything ion a source is not important. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:48, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  • She didn't always live in Oregon. This is an important songwriting detail.
  • I am sure reviewers will ask about this in the FAC. Try to clarify further in the text if possible. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:48, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Isn't it okay to have some background information? You don't want readers to leave wondering.
  • That's why I asked to clarify it further. See Penguin, we often think what we have written is correct but you know those reviewers. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Echo what I said above.
  • The last two are supposed to describe how Grey and Alex da Kid felt working with Eminem. I trimmed them anyway. These quotes are directly from people who worked on the song, making them insightful.
  • Look at something that was added about BTINH a few days ago. I had to remove it. To tell you frankly, theses details are important but reviewers who do not write music articles will not even try to understand that sentence. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:48, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Have you seen how I re-worded them? It's not that I don't want to remove them, but it's just that it does add insight from the perspective from the artists. It adds what one editor once said, the "human touch".
(unsigned comments by me) Thank you for all your help.—WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:39, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Collaborating and recording

  • Why did you link Paris?
  • considered the request when she accepted - The usage of the word request is a bit too near here. I would suggest considered the proposal as she approved
  • And, of course, I was like, 'OK, if I love it, I'll definitely do it, because I love Eminem.' And I love the song - Completely unnecessary and fancrufty.
  • n the song, Eminem raps about a girl whom he loves despite not earning her respect.[14] Access Hollywood asked if such a topic had any influence on Rihanna's decision to work with him, after her violently ending relationship with American recording artist Chris Brown.[15] Eminem sent Rihanna the track and inspired her, as she used the words "deep", "beautiful" and "intense" to describe the song. Rihanna stated that "Love the Way You Lie"'s topic is one she is able to reflect on and thus would be successful. - I am lost and confused.
    • I have addressed all these helpful points. You're right, that quotation was crufty. I clarified the interview information. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 13:30, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I will continue tomorrow. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:18, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I have just realized or should I say begun realizing there there is a lot of work to be done here on the prose. And there may be much more than I highlight (Remember that I am not a native speaker of English. When I read, my dictionary is next to me but sometimes, the thing in the dictionary may not fit the context here. My point is (after all this blabla) that I may not be able to point all the little flaws in the prose but I am still willing to do what I can :)) Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate the changes. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 09:26, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Recording sessions

 Doing... Jivesh1205 (Talk) 09:26, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

  • He was absent when the recording sessions took place. Is this necessary? I f yes, relate it to everything that comes before it.
  • vocal track, but either you remove the comma or add it everywhere for similar consistency
  • on this one - what is one here? Shouldn't you use that since the sentence is in the past tense? Not sure.
  • "brighter" I was told at SL's FAC that single words (unless they are extravagant) better not be in quotations
  • On most songs that Eminem writes, Detroit musician Luis Resto adds additional keyboard music and arrangement. - So does this mean Eminem always works Resto?
  • "complete" - Again
  • Alex da Kid described everyone at Effigy Studios as "down-to-earth. ... Everyone makes jokes about each other. It's really funny. - Is this even needed after that quote box ("Em[inem] reminds me of one of my friends from back home. It was just so natural. ... He knows what he's doing) which sounds like total fancruft to me?
  • the vocal balence were unnecessary - Who said this? and what is balence? Lolzz.

Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:01, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm lazy, so I'll just post a diff. I parahrased the song and reread the source and wrote something more relevant. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:57, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Lol. Very very very nice. :D Really. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:59, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Changed my mind. Orane brought it up as well, so I'm rm-ing it. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 13:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Composition

  • Link midtempo
  • 4:23 (4 minutes, 23 seconds) - Why not choose the one in brackets only?
  • Link key
  • Link vocal range
  • The vocal range spans from the low note of B♭3 to the high note of D5 as the song follows the chord progression Gm–E♭(add2)–B♭–F/A. - Reword or break the sentence
    • That gets choppy and awkward. I'm sure you don't want it to read like a list do you? How about: "The song has a vocal range spanning from the low note of B♭3 to the high note of D5 and follows the chord progression Gm–E♭(add2)–B♭–F/A. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 04:13, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Replacing an "s" with "nd" did wonders. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • the track as a ballad - track?
  • previous albums, but finds - comma?
  • a sober and more mature Eminem. - Lol, this badly needs an attribution. :D :D :))))))))))
  • Link hook
    • Linked.
  • According to The New York Times's David Brownie, her voice shows grief and regret but lacks vibrato. Move it to critical reception but leave a small note in composition as well, like the grief and regret stuffs.
    • I fixed this one as per Orane's comment instead of moving it. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 04:13, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Link verses
    • Common term vis a vis key. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 04:13, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • If you say so but you know, we do have a page for that for embellishment purposes. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Its MTV News, not MTV only
  • "from apologetic to accepting the end." - WP:LQ
  • Are you sure? You took only part of the sentence, not the whole. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I thought it didn't matter what portion of a sentence you used, as long as there is a period/full stop at the end of the sentence in the source as well. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:37, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I think you should have a look at the examples given on that page again. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:48, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • He elaborated on Eminem's vocal performance, which "builds and becomes flush with a mix of fondness and angered regret from his failed relationship." - Don't get me wrong but too much emphasis is being laid on the vocals. Really too much.
    • I don't understand what you want me to do. This is a rap song. You're not going to find critical analysis on musical elements. It's about the raw lyrics and vocals. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 04:13, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I don't want critical analysis but compositional analysis which I believe you can get from reviews. That's from where I get mine. I mean, can't you have information about what Eminem raps in the first verse, second one, and so on? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Not sure what you mean in the first sentence but I get what you mean, sorta. I don't want to recycle magazine articles for the Release and response section as well though: it seems pretty clumsy and POV issues may arise in the Composition. I've tried my best to give an idea of what Eminem sings about. The BBC review however does have some lyrical analysis information. I'll give it a shot. 12:37, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Sorry for the typos. I think I have never said this on Wikipedia but my keyboard sucks. Its epicness is unbeatable. Do give it a shot. And don't worry, it's easy to deal with those issues at the FAC. What I can advise you is not to diverge too much from what the reviewers have written. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:48, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • ex-wife Kimberly Scott, although they do - Per the style you told me you are applying, a comma is not needed.
    • Comma is needed. The style guideline I am following does not apply here, or in the word "but".
  • Oops, I did not know. This style is way too confusing. That's why I use what I have seen other editors using since 2009. Even copy-editors (when you request them) use the other style. Anyway, it's up to you, Choose the one which will cause you less trouble a the FAC. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I don't think they would want to argue with the Chicago Manual of Style. :) —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 13:19, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
  • single's similarities to a love song. - Please elaborate. This sentence seems dry (at least to me).
  • The Atlantic is supposed to be in italics.
  • A general comment: I don't have much of a liking for this section. It reads very well, yes very well but sounds incomplete for a song like LTWYL. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:19, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Come on, isn't key one of themost common terms in music? Does that have to be linked in a music article? The Atlantic Wire is a web site. ;-) —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:04, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Oops sorry. And please link it. I did not know what a key (music) was before i came on Wikipedia, or should I say before I came on a page on Wikipedia, where the word key was wikified. For me, key was only the thing used to lock or unlock a door or a term used to illustrate how enzymes specifically work. Keep in mind that someone interested in aircrafts, food nutrients, or simply articles related to sex (on Wikipedia), can also read or review this article. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:19, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Just for the sex part, I'll link it. Haha. Oh and about the opening sentence, it is based of a model I used--"Mothers of the Disappeared". —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Too funny. LMAO. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:02, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Release and response

  • On May 27, 2011, Eminem revealed "Love the Way You Lie" as one of the 16 then-known songs on the track listing of Recovery - This sentence is kind of confusing.
  • later that month - Better mention the date(s).

I am very tired. I will take a look later but tell me something, why is there a table for the awards? Don't you think you should convert it to prose? There are not like many many many awards to keep it there as a table. And since it did not win most of them, I believe it will be easier for you to convert it into prose. I am surprised at five nominations for the Grammy Awards but none won. :P Jivesh1205 (Talk) 16:07, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Responses
  • "Eminem revealed "Love the Way You Lie" on the track listing of Recovery alongside 15 other songs."
  • I didn't specify dates because the information would be repeated in the table at the bottom of the page.
  • The reason I have a table for the awards is because converting it into prose would read awfully bad and would read like a boring list with bad flow. The table imo is perfect and fixes this. I am surprised too that it didn't win Grammys. Damn you Jay-Z and Alicia Keys.
—WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 16:14, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
I am satisfied with all your replies. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 16:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Release and response

 Doing... Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:02, 8 January 2012 (UTC)  Not done Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:18, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

References

I will proceed by bunches of 10 references. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:24, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

1 to 100

1 to 10
  • 7. Los Angeles Times is more than enough and please use {{cite news}} [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:27, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
11 to 20
  • 17. For consistency, remove location. Better remove them than add them, an advice Nikki gave me. [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:32, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
  • 18. Author is Michael Menachem (It is missing) [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:32, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
21 to 30
  • 22. Link Digital Spy and company. Too lazy to write that. Lol. [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
  • 25. is BBC Online [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
  • 26. Link The New York Times Company [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
  • 27. Link Time [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
31 to 40
  • 31. Unlick Time [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
  • 32. NPR is owned by National Public Radio, Inc [Done but without the "Inc". —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
  • 39. Unlink everything [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
  • 40. Unlink Atlantic Media Company [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
41 to 50
  • 44. Unlink Complex [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:46, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
  • 46. OT Is there any Beyonce on on that huge list? - I don't know. "Telephone" maybe, but it's unlikely anything else made it onto the list. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:46, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
51 to 60
  • 55. Remove location [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:46, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
  • 60. Unlink Prometheus Global Media
61 to 70
  • 62. Link The Official Charts Company
  • 64, 65 & 66. Unlink everything
  • 69. Unlink Prometheus Global Media
Now with the Billboard and UK Chart refs, they are the result of {{Singlechart}}. I have spoken to two editors, who said this will not be an issue. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:46, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
71 to 80
  • 79. Yahoo! Music. Yahoo! is correct [Done —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:49, 8 January 2012 (UTC)]
81 to 90
91 to 100
  • 91 & 95. For consistency, use Daily Mail and General Trust
  • 98. Unlink everything.
I will continue later. My mom is calling me. I may not take long but when I return, I will look at some of the articles on which I am working, then I will get back to this. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Done all possible. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 13:12, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

101 to 200

101 to 110
111 to 120
  • 118. For consistency, use The L Magazine LLC
    • Not done. That would be repetitive. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 18:45, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
121 to 130
131 to 140
141 to 150
  • 141. Use BBC Online
  • 143. So you are using Inc. here?
    • Changed to different publisher. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 18:45, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
  • 147. From where did you get the publisher?
  • 149. Simply BBC Online
  • 150. Use Richard Desmond
    • Not done. I prefer using actual companies for publishers, unless sites publish themselves (IBTimes, L Mag, etc.) —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 18:45, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
151 to 160
161 to 170
  • 166. Is the magazine available as a physical copy?
  • 169. Link Grammy.com
171 to 180
181 to 190
191 to 200
  • 192. Unlink The Official Charts Company
201 to 210
  • 201. Same as 186
211 to 226

Done all expect those with replies. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 18:45, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Music video

Background
  • which Kathy Angstadt and Maryann Tanedo of HSI Productions produced. - I suggest you use passive so that readers do not have to read productions produced as it sounds awkward though it is grammatically correct.
    • Done.
  • "Love the Way You Lie" became the third video Kahn directed for Eminem, having shot "Without Me" in 2002 and "We Made You" in 2009 - not sure about the structure of this sentence.
    • Reworded to "'Love the Way You Lie' was the third Eminem video directed by Kahn, who had filmed 'Without Me' in 2002 and 'We Made You' in 2009."
  • He would later direct the video for Eminem's single "Space Bound", which also depicts a plot that involves violence, where the girl cheats on her boyfriend. - necessary?
  • "The only reason I did it [was] because the song was so amazing, and the album is so great, and Eminem is in such a great moment, and it was such an important topic to do." needs an attribution
    • I actually removed that sentence. Crufty. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 14:05, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Since you wrote American director, why don't you mention the nationalities of the co-stars as well?
The first para looks amazing. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Vibe added that - Are you the magazine did that? :P
  • Fox and Monaghan's part was shot - Singular? Just asking in case ...
  • During the project, he recalled directing American pop singer Britney Spears's 2008 video for "Womanizer"; Kahn had planned to stop directing videos for pop music, but changed his mind to work on "Love the Way You Lie" - Should this be moved in the first para without the During the project, he recalled? I mean where he said why he accepted to direct the video for LTWYL.
The rest in background looks good but don't you think it is over-detailed? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Probably so. Done all your points. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 14:05, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I will continue most probably at night because of the cyclone. It raining heavily here. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 14:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Synopsis
  • IMPRESSIVE Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:28, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Pretty long for a plot though, lol. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Reception and analysis
  • Since you link YouTube, link Vevo as well.
    • Already linked in the Background though? —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Mariel Concepcion of Billboard - For consistency, add magazine
    • I did that the first time, does it have to be done here again? —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "combustible behavior the tune is hellbent on describing." - Apply WP:LQ
    • Per source, that's where the full stop/period is. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
  • The director however understood why viewers may think so. - Necessary? If yes, present it in a better way... Link it with another sentence.
    • Linked it to the first sentence about the topic: "Although Kahn understood why viewers may think the video was influenced by Eminem's and Rihanna's relationships, he told MTV News that it is fictional and is not based on their personal lives."
  • Mikey Fresh of Vibe - Add magazine
  • claiming that Fox and Monaghan look "gorgeous"' - claiming?
    • Changed to "adding". :-) —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
  • She concluded jokingly that the moral of the video is to avoid stealing vodka from a liquor store. - Not sure about his? It may work for a GA but ...
    • You'll think I'm insane, but I think it's good to have some humor in a Wikipedia article to make stuff interesting. I can still remove it if needed. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "left to decide if it's a good thing or a bad thing that the pair always end up reconciling." - WP:LQ
  • "hypnotized ... when filmed in sepia tones, in front of burning houses." - Again.
    • LQ says that "place all punctuation marks inside the quotation marks if they are part of the quoted material and outside if they are not." That's what I did. Are you sure it only applies to full sentences? —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Very nice job. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:28, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
You are welcome my Penguin. :P Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:03, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Comments by Orane/Journalist

I know you didn't ask me, but I just have a few comments from scanning the article. And I can be more in depth if you want. But here are some of the things that jump out at me:

  • "According to her, its theme domestic violence is one that not many people are conscious of, making it effective." Sentence is awkward. And, are you missing a word between "theme" and "domestic"—an "of", maybe.
  • "Eminem and his manager considered Rihanna after listening to a track Alex da Kid produced, noting her to be ideal". Awkward. And was the track Rihanna's?
  • "it is narrated mostly from the female perspective, unlike the original." This may be nitpicking, but "unlike the original" is not needed. I think that the mere fact that you pointed out that the song is from the female perspective is enough. Actually, I think this is apparent from the first paragraph.
  • "Eminem has received six awards from 30 nominations worldwide for "Love the Way You Lie". A little bit definitive (conclusive?), don't you think? Have you tracked down every award this song has ever won? Ever? Also, awards table towards the article's end lists 7 wins.
  • "Initially fans and critics speculated that the video is based on the relationships of Eminem and Rihanna with Scott and Chris Brown respectively. "Love the Way You Lie" has been performed at events such as Electronic Entertainment Expo 2010, the MTV Video Music Awards and Lollapalloza."—a very jarring shift.
  • "Rihanna responded that the subject matter is one she is able to reflect on and thus would be successful". Will it be successful because she is able to reflect on it?
  • "Alex da Kid's tracks were well-recorded and required little work." "well-" as an adverb in this sentence is a bit awkward.
  • "Strange's brother Joe worked with Spike Lindsey for the audio engineering and the sessions were completed in two days". I was trying to think of a way that you can phrase this without being repetitive, but it's unacceptable to use first name only in formal (encyclopedic) writing, unless it's a one name celebrity. So, "Madonna" and "Cher" or "Rihanna" is fine. But if it's "Joe Strange", then it's either "Joe Strange" or "Strange", but never "Joe".
  • "her voice shows grief and regret but lacks vibrato."— the use of "but" here is awkward, as it suggests that vibrato is needed to show grief or regret.
  • "In a June 2011 interview for Los Angeles Times Magazine, she explained her view of the music industry as her abusive relationship, which had become the source of her songwriting inspiration." It's kinda unclear what you are trying to say here.
  • "According to him, "It was simply a matter of trying to match and then to improve on the demo [Alex da Kid had] sent us."[2] Alex da Kid described everyone at Effigy Studios as "down-to-earth. ... Everyone makes jokes about each other. It's really funny."[9]" Second sentence is non-sequitar and adds nothing to the paragraph or article.
  • "Baltimore-born songwriter Makeba Riddick". May be nitpicking, but I just can't see the importance of the songwriter's hometown in this sentence.
  • "complete modifications on her seven stereo vocal tracks and the vocal balence were unnecessary" typo, I assume ("balence"). Also, sentence is a bit technical: do producers/mixers etc usually do complete modifications on a singer's seven stereo vocal tracks? If it's something that is not always done, then the decision of the producers/mixers to not do it does not need to be explicitly mentioned.
  • "MTV's Jayson Rodriguez found emotion and power in Eminem's verses, the last of which he noticed to range "from apologetic to accepting the end." "he noticed to range" is awkward.

You can implement or disregard suggestions at will =) And good job on the article. If you want me to take a good look at it, then you know where I am! Orane (talk) 11:44, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

That is so kind of you! I'm loving the feedback from you and Jivesh. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Alright, I've made most changes. Some responses:
  • I re-worded the sentence to "According to her, many people are not aware of its theme of domestic violence, a topic that makes the song effective."
  • I've changed "considered" to "asked Rihanna to collaborate with him". The track was not Rihanna's though. See what you think.
  • I decided to go with the general but vague word "many". I think I was able to hunt down every award he had won though. Lol.
  • The jarring shift is what I am stuck at. MOS restricts me to only four paragraphs and it's hard to use simple transitions without the paragraph reading awkward. Do you have suggestions? I am desperate.
  • Cut "thus".
  • How about "almost perfectly"? I did a quick reading of the magazine article.
  • I'm stuck at the brotherly part (heh). Would the MoS be mad if I said "Mike's brother Joe Strange"? It's almost the same, but WP:LASTNAME doesn't go into a lot of detail on this.
  • That was a bad conjunction. How about "but has no vibrato" as "lacks" is a somewhat POVish word.
  • I added a quotation to clear things up. I reads "I love it so much, and I give it all that I have, yet it beats me down." That's her comparison of the music industry and an abusive relationship.
  • Seeing how both you and Jivesh have raised this. I am one against two. :-) Rm-ed.
  • Changed "Baltimore-born" to "American".
  • Typo fixed as noted by Jivesh.
  • Do you think major modifications would work? The magazine article does not go into such detail.
  • Changed to "the last of which he said".
No, please do nitpick. If FAC reviewers would do it, I don't see why you can't. :) Thanks a lot. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 12:55, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

More comments from Orane

  • "Record label Interscope-Geffen-A&M released it on August 9, 2010, as the second single from the album." This is me nit-picking. It's a minor issue, and you can fully disregard this. But my personal preference has always been to write in the passive voice for these few early sentences in the lead, because it places more emphasis on the subject/receiver than on the agent/giver, if that makes sense. So, instead of saying "Record label Interscope-Geffen-A&M released it on August 9, 2010, as the second single from the album.", I'd personally go with "It was released by Interscope-Geffen on August 9, 2010 as the second single". The focus of the sentence should be the song and not the label.
  • "It features vocals from Barbadian recording artist Rihanna, who said that its effect is attributed to its theme of domestic violence, a topic many people are not aware of." Not crazy about this sentence for two reasons—1. It's ambiguous what the second "it" is referring to (the song or Rihanna's vocals). 2. Sentence ends in a preposition. I've never been strict about using a prep. to end sentences, but here it sounds a bit awkward.
  • "A multitude of recording artists have covered or remixed the song". A multitude sounds (dare I say...) a little bit pretentious lol
  • "Publications listed the song among the best of 2010 and Eminem's work." Would I be mistaken in suggesting another "of" before "Eminem's work"?
  • "Dominic Monaghan and Megan Fox start together in a love–hate relationship while Eminem and Rihanna perform in front of a burning house"-Do you mean "star together"?
  • "If you do decide to trim the lead (it's up to you)", I'd suggest the sentence about the cover versions and mention of the year-end charts.

Overall, the lead is a great read, although it's a bit dense. Once you fine tune it and possibly edit out a few sentences, it should be perfect.

  • "The writing came naturally when she lyricized the chorus, as if she was writing a song for herself." Is it me, or does the comma impede the meaning of the sentence? And it should be "as if she were", (past subjunctive of "to be")
  • "In early 2010 Alex da Kid offered the Shady Records Senior Director Rigo "Riggs" Morales a selection of backing tracks, including "Love the Way You Lie".[9] Morales enjoyed the tracks and sent them to Eminem, who wanted to try something different for his seventh studio album Recovery.[9] The rapper first listened to the song "Airplanes" by B.o.B and Hayley Williams, liked it and collaborated with the artists on a sequel.[9] When asked if Alex da Kid had other tracks, he presented Eminem with "Love the Way You Lie". " For the last sentence, Eminem did the asking, right? But who did he ask, da Kid or Morales? Also, the first/second sentences said that Morals gave Eminem all the tracks, including "LTWYL", but then the last sentence said that Eminem asked if there was any more, and he was then presented with "LTWYL". This section is confusing.
  • "She added that Eminem is a "really cool guy" for his sense of humor and that she was pleased to collaborate with him.[10] Grey was apparently certain that he would be perfect for Alex da Kid's track.[8]" If the article is supposed to be in summary style, I think the mention that Eminem is a cool guy etc adds nothing to the article.
  • I'd say this section could use a better flow, esp the last paragraph. Go through it and give it a copy edit. Also, there are instances where I think you can give the prose a little flair, just to make it more compelling. In stead of "he wanted to try something different for his album", try something like "he aimed for a different musical approach" etc etc (that's probably a bad example. But you get what I mean, right? The tone is very staid, and it could be lighter). But on the plus side, its a great read and very comprehensive.
  • Also, is it ever ok to just say "da Kid" or must we say "Alex da Kid" every time? I'm not sure about Wiki convention. It just sounds like a first name-last name thing which gets a bit repetitive.
  • "The lyrics are sung over a piano and an electric guitar,[1][20] the latter of which was provided by J. Brow.[16] Awkward.
  • "The vocal range spans from the low note of B♭3 to the high note of D5 in the song,[19] which Gil Kaufman of MTV News and Mayer Nissem of Digital Spy regarded as a ballad". I think that the fact that the song is classified as a ballad is a notable point, and shouldn't be placed as a parenthetical expression at the end of this sentence. I'd say that deserves mention as a stand alone, with maybe a sentence expanding on this.
    • Do we really need to Wiki-link introduction (in Composition section)?
  • ""I can't tell you what it really is/ I can only tell you what it feels like." The Rihanna lyrics made sense. But I'm not sure why the Eminem lyric is there. I don't oppose to its mere inclusion, but if you're going to include it, use a quotation that is meaningful or supports a point you're writing about. Don't include it just to show that this is what he says when he starts rapping.
  • "laying hands on" is an idiomatic expression, and as such, the meaning varies across certain cultures. In mine, it means to hit someone. On answers.com, it means "to grasp" or "to find or obtain"
  • ""Love the Way You Lie" spent four weeks at number one in New Zealand and lasted from June 28 to November 22, 2010, with a re-appearance on December 6, 2010" Lasted at #1? Lasted in the chart's top 50? top 100?

An overall great job. I think that you should read it aloud and try to listen to its tempo and flow, and try to see if anything can be improved. It's well-researched, organized and satisfy most of the FA criteria. Just needs some tweaks here and there. Will review Music Video onwards in a day or so. Orane (talk) 18:13, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks Orane. You have raised excellent points, with all of which I agree. I'll have a look at your queries. As for the last name boundaries, as far as I know, they are not applied to stage names. "Da Kid" sounds somewhat like a gossip-blog style of writing in which the journalist is just lazy to write out the stage name. I think there are exceptions though, like "Gaga". I don't know though, because even that is being disputed. I see I have made some typos ("start together", etc.). I'll amend those asap. Thanks very much. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 18:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
You're welcome. And you're right: Da Kid sounds weird. Orane (talk) 19:28, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

One last point: This sentence is unclear to me "British hip hop producer Alex da Kid wrote and produced "Love the Way You Lie" mostly on his laptop,[1] composing the melody of the chorus.[2" Did you mean "... mostly on his laptop, including the melody of the chorus"? It's the second clause that's throwing me off, because in a nutshell, it says "He wrote it mostly on his lap top, writing the melody of the chorus", which isn't very lucid. Orane (talk) 20:32, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I want to just get the point across, that he was the one who composed the hook's melody. If I put it anywhere, it doesn't seem to belong. But it's an important point. Do you have ideas? Thanks. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I'll mull it over and get back to you on that. And the review for the other sections, if you still want it lol, is coming soon. BTW, loving the new edits so far! Orane (talk) 19:58, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
You can review the other sections a bit later if you want. I could take some time to focus on the ones you've already reviewed. So glad I was able to get a full Entertainment Weekly article discussing comparisons of "LTWYL" and Adele's "SLY". Lol what edits did you "love"? —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:11, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Small point. You probably hate me by now lol, but I have one other small concern. And as usual, you can choose to ignore it if you want. It was a concern that was brought up at other FAs in the past, and I thought I'd raise it here. If I've never said it before, I'll say that I have a very strong distaste for "Live performances" sections in album and song articles. I feel that they add nothing. If I'm coming to read an article about a song, I couldn't care less if the artist performed it in Belgium on November 31 on a burning stage. I just don't see the point of the section, unless it's fully contextualized regarding the song's/album's promotion (by contextualized, I mean something like this. Not that the 21 article is any class act--not by a long shot--but you get the point, I hope). But that's my opinion, and by no means whatsoever are you expected to follow it. The small issue that I see with the live section in this particular article is that it does not use summary style at all. Obviously if a performance is notable, if the song shot up the charts after a show etc, then I'd expect a description of the performance. But can you tell me what the following quotations/descriptions add to the article as a whole? "Los Angeles! What the fuck is up? Make some motherfucking noise!", or "Eminem performed in a black jacket, hoodie and white T-shirt, while Rihanna wore a white tutu and black combat boots", or "Eminem's clothing consisted of a black Bad Meets Evil T-shirt and camouflage shorts". Does a non-fan reading an encyclopedia article really want to know what shoes or shorts he was wearing at the time? Were they notable in the performance? Did they receive any sort of extensive media coverage? Do these things add to the article's slant or purpose? For you, as a writer, would you say that these points contribute to whatever it is you're trying to say? Because, in my opinion, these are very mundane observations in an already lengthy article. And I'm only bringing it up because it was brought up in an FAC not too long ago. Orane (talk) 06:04, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
No, no, that's an excellent point. I'll trim that section and try and keep it focused. It was actually one of the sections I wanted to have you read. I do however think that describing the performers' apparel helps describe the synopses of the performances. I'll see. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 10:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Me again (music video)

  • "According to Kahn, Fox allowed the video to have a stronger impact"-- I get what you mean, but would you rewrite it? She didn't allow (i.e. give permission to) the video to have a stronger impact. Maybe her presence gave it added impact ... or some other variation.
  • Changed to "According to Kahn, Fox's participation increased the video's impact." —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • During the project, he recalled directing American pop singer Britney Spears's 2008 video for "Womanizer".[88] What's the significance of this? The paparazzi or something else?
  • Temporarily hidden. I'm not quite sure what you mean. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "She then attempts to leave him, only to be brought back to start fighting again" awkward.
  • Changed to "She then attempts to leave him, but starts to fight again after she is brought back." —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • " Before the chorus, the man slams his girlfriend onto the wall and goes to punch her, " "go to punch her" is awkward.
  • How about "proceeds to punch her"? That's what I have now. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "The video returns to the current events of the plot as the boyfriend goes to apologize to his girlfriend with a teddy bear" The video returns to the present... or something.
  • Changed to "The video shifts back to the present ...".
  • Have you come upon any sources that explores the fire motif throughout the video? Fire usually symbolizes danger, the volatile (combustible) nature of the relationship; in her hands it could mean that she's "playing with fire", so to speak. Of course these are my interpretations, but I'm assuming the fire symbolizes something.
  • It's highly likely there's some analysis of the imagery. I'll search thoroughly. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "...Eminem joins Rihanna in front of the burning house and raps the final verse. The woman starts to walk away from his boyfriend after they resolve their conflict while the man follows behind her." read out loud and spot the error.
  • I have a feeling that there's a really obvious issue that I cannot see, so I've rewritten: "After the couple is reconciled again, the woman walks away from his boyfriend, who follows her." Wait, it's s/v agreement isn't it? Or maybe the "behind" is redundant? —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm about to go out now, so I'll respond to the rest when I come back. But you keep saying "walk away from his boyfriend". I think you mean her boyfriend. :P Orane (talk) 21:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Overall, description of the video plot could be tightened.
  • You're right. I've given it a shot. See what you think. Pretty complex plot actually. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "Speculation arose from comparisons of the video with Eminem's and Rihanna's past relationships with Scott and Brown, respectively"-- I know what you're trying to say, but the sentence is confusing ("speculation arose from comparisons of the video...").
  • Rewrote in simple English: "Critics speculated that video was influenced by Eminem's and Rihanna's past relationships with Scott and Brown."
  • "believed that its effect is enhanced owing to Eminem's violent-themed songs, his relationship with Scott and Brown's 2009 assault on Rihanna.[104]" Sentence is a bit convoluted. "Enhanced owing", and the entire structure in general.
  • Re-worded to "She praised the clip for accurate depiction of patterns in an abusive relationship and said that it is potent due to Eminem's background for singing violent-themed songs and Rihanna's background for Brown's 2009 assault on her." The last part is a bit awkward, I'm working on that. :-) —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 13:14, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
  • If I can be completely honest, the reception section is a bit long. It could just be me, but 4 paragraphs about the response to the song itself, and then another 4 paragraphs about the response to the video. Thats 8 full paragraphs about critical reception to "Love the Way You Lie".
  • I'm actually quite reluctant to remove any information, but I will give it all to tighten the flow. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 13:14, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "He greeted his audience as he said, "London, UK. What the fuck is this, y'all? What the fuck is you on?" It honestly just seem that its in there because it can be in there. There's no commentary about it from the critics, no significance to the performance, just some random words. But can I ask you personally, why do you feel that this is needed in there.
  • I'm just jumping around, but the "Writing and production" section seems a bit repetitive towards the last 2 paragraphs. It's mention in two successive paragraphs that Eminem said he wanted to work with Rihanna. Rihanna is described in the last two paragraphs as describing the song/theme as "Beautiful".
  • Trimmed. Looks good? —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:25, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "Access Hollywood asked if the subject matter, that of an abusive relationship, influenced Rihanna's decision to ..." The response that is written ("Rihanna replied that the topic is one"...) does not directly answer this question, and the two sentences don't flow well. Also, having read the source, I'm not aware of any explicit dialogue between the artist and Access Hollywood. Ie. contrary to the prose, they didn't necessarily ask her "did your relationship influence this". She simply volunteered the information.
  • "He performed with Rihanna at the 2010 MTV Video Music Awards and was voted the best performer of the ceremony, earning 34 percent of votes" who did the poll?
  • "Eminem performed 24 other songs, including "No Love", "Fast Lane", "Lighters" and his usual encore song, "Lose Yourself".[134][135]" loose details
  • Removed all such information. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 21:09, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Great job on the article. Just a few tweaks here and there and you should be ready for FA soon. Orane (talk) 04:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm tired of thanking you. I owe you much more help with 21. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 18:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
All your changes and suggestions greatly improves on the article. And no need to thank me. You have done the same for me with 21 (btw, planning to take it to FAC by the Grammys (Feb 13th)! lol). Orane (talk) 22:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Comments

I have been asked to comment on the prose, but I am saddened to say that the writing needs more work. There are quite a few problems, but I don't have the time to list them all. But here are some examples:

  • This sounds very odd, "The lyrics she wrote are sung by Barbadian recording artist Rihanna". Try something like, Barbadian recording artist Rihanna sings the chorus, which she also wrote the lyrics for.
  • This too sounds strange, "which describe Eminem's regret from an abusive failed relationship".
  • This phrase "reference the rapper's ex-wife Kimberly Scott" are a reference to.
  • I think "scenes of" would be better than "imagery suggesting " here, "imagery suggesting domestic violence caused an uproar.
  • In this sentence, "Beginning production, he created his own loops for a few hours and produced a drum pattern with electronic tools and digital software, then adding real instrumentation." The participle opening does not work, try a simple "At the start of production" or "He began by creating". Why write "his own", what are "electronic tools", and does analogue software exist? If not why write "digital"?
  • It is not clear what arranged means here, "The drum sounds had been arranged from live recordings he had saved in past years." Does it mean "sampled"?
  • This too is poor, "She opened an email and listened to Alex da Kid's track, then considered a theme of abusive relationships." It lacks logical flow and "opened an email" is far to colloquial to use here.

These are all in the first 26 or so lines of text. There are other problems further down such as, "The video shifts back to the present as the man apologizes to his girlfriend with a teddy bear and later drinks a glass of liquor." "A gift of a teddy bear" perhaps, and why link it? Everybody know what a teddy bear is. Sorry to sound a bit harsh, but if this were a FAC, it would be shot to pieces. Graham Colm (talk) 20:44, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Graham and thank you for voicing your opinion. I can understand what you mean. I'll take further consideration in improving the prose. Your criticism is appreciated. This was just what I needed to get an idea of how far along I was and I knew I had a feeling this article was just not ready. I'll have a look at your examples and more. Once again, thanks. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 22:26, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Awkward sentences

Just for reference, the following sentences will need rewording. I feel that these sentences can be written much more professionally, but do not know how.

  • "Singer Skylar Grey was inspired to write and record the demo with Alex da Kid when she felt she was in an abusive romantic relationship with the music industry."
  • "Scott had attempted suicide in 2000 and had later sued Eminem for defamation."
  • "Recording took two days, while Strange's brother Joe engineered the track."
  • "The lyrics describe a couple's refusal to separate despite their abusive relationship."
  • "He becomes more frustrated,[23] rapping that two personalities can clash and devastate:"
  • "It showed Caramanica that Eminem can assess issues from the perspectives of both sexes"
  • "On April 26, 2011, Gabriel Alvarez of Complex magazine ranked it at number 100 on their '100 Best Eminem Songs' list, writing that it is a love song in which Rihanna sings beautifully."
  • "In October 2011, it became the 109th song to reach 1 million sales there."
  • "With sales of 4,245,000 copies, 'Love the Way You Lie' was the seventh-best-selling single of 2010 in the US."
  • "This was an opportunity for him to direct a video for Eminem without the comedic themes of their previous collaborations"
  • For the video, Kahn considered English actor Dominic Monaghan as a co-star for his versatility, which he thought would help him play an antagonist.
  • "Kahn cast American actress Megan Fox, which he had presumed would be almost impossible owing to her popularity with directors."
  • "He said Fox's involvement increased the video's impact,[76] commenting for Vibe:"
  • "He said the difficult topic resulted in a powerful video owing to Rihanna, Fox and Monaghan"
  • "The video opens as Rihanna sings in front of a burning house and an interspersing scene shows fire on a woman's (Fox) palms."
  • (repetitive) "He tries to kiss her, but is spat on the face. She then attempts to leave him, but is brought back."
  • "The clip shifts back to the present, as the man apologizes and later drinks liquor."
  • "Flames engulf Eminem and the couple,[87] who then appear in front of the burning house."
  • "Mariel Concepcion of Billboard said it focuses on the risks of domestic violence, which she thought should be avoided before it is late." (a little odd)
  • "Writing for Rolling Stone magazine, Daniel Kreps called it "especially striking", noting her relationship with Brown." (two participles)
  • "James Hendicott from State wrote that the rapper's personality 'fill[ed] the stage' as his vocals were sharp and packed 'plenty of punch'." (use of "as")
  • "Rihanna had told fans she would not perform, but appeared anyway."
  • "'Love the Way You Lie' was performed without Rihanna at the 2011 Bonnaroo Music Festival for almost 80,000 people."
  • (odd contrast): "While Chicago Sun-Times considered the track an unnecessary sequel,[142] BBC reviewer James Skinner wrote, '"Love the Way You Lie (Part II)"' even bests the original, Eminem's verse exuding the kind of volatile, simmering menace that got everyone so excited about him in the first place. But it is Rihanna's vocal—at once commanding, soulful and vulnerable—that anchors the song'."

All readers and co-contributors are free to add to this list as they please. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 17:12, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

"With sales of 4,245,000 copies, 'Love the Way You Lie' was the seventh-best-selling single of 2010 in the US." → I thought Billboard's year-end charts were a product of sales and airplay. Till 22:49, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh no, I'm citing a Nielsen sales report, not a music chart. The confusion may have been due to an error in the text—it's third-best, not seventh-best, although it is number 7 on the 2010 Billboard chart. I fixed quickly fixed that. Thanks for bringing this up. But you're right—both sales and spins are taken by Billboard into account when ranking singles. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 23:05, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

"In February 2009, American singer Chris Brown had assaulted Rihanna and their relationship had subsequently ended." — The use of 'had' twice is somewhat repetitious here Till 09:01, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll add that to my to-do. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:43, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome :) Btw, in the second paragraph of the lead you have written 'critics suggested it...' twice, one for the reception of the song and another for the reception of the video. Suggest you use another word or rephase one of the sentences somehow as that's also repetitious. As for 'Rihanna told fans she would not perform, but appeared anyway', the source doesn't say that she "told fans", and you are missing the author for the source (Brad Wete) Till 06:09, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
I've fixed these I think. Your suggestions are hugely appreciated. Link to changes made. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 22:30, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Love the way you lie

About 3 or 4 years ago, I could've sworn that I was listening to the chorus of Eminem's song, "Love the way you lie" (sung by Rhianna) When it came time for Eminem's part of the song, I heard totally different lyrics- sung by Rhianna. I figured that it was like when I 1st heard the song "Thank You" by Dido & thought that it was Eminem's song, "Stan"... However, I haven't heard the Rhianna version ever again- I can't even find proof of its existence!?! Does anyone know anything about the song by JUST Rhianna??? Ms.Cheif.420 (talk) 07:29, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

@Ms.Cheif.420: Talk pages are used to discuss improvements to the article. It's not the place to find answer to general questions regarding the subject. You could try asking your question on Reference desk instead. -- Chamith (talk) 08:23, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

kk

Good Kwasi Afum (talk) 13:49, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

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Who Really Wrote the Song "Love the Way You Lie"

People are crediting everyone but the right people, the songwriters: Klaus Meine, Hermann Erbel (Herman Rarebell), Rudolf Schenker Not sure if they actually wrote the lyrics but I would bet for sure they wrote the music. On second thought I am going to venture a guess and say that they wrote both the lyrics and the music. For those who may not know, the 3 gentlemen are 3/5 of the German Rock band, The Scorpions. More specifically the singer, drummer and rhythm guitarist. Herman Rarebell, the drummer, is actually credited with writing lyrics to some of the Scorpions biggest hits. [2] [3]Guitargear01 (talk) 05:41, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/chart_watch/74386/chart-watch-extra-eminem-makes-digital-history/;_ylt=AsRs9TZC9FQerDB9OI6qrssPwiUv
  2. ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py60E_EvlcY
  3. ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uelHwf8o7_U
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