Talk:List of video games considered the best/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 → Archive 5

Verifiable criteria for this list

So, as a heads up... the good news is, this kind of list is fine, and several recent AFDs attempting to delete such kinds of lists have failed. The bad news is that this article WILL be nominated for deletion if it's unsourced, which is correct, and right now all that's listed is the GamesRadar top 100 list. And the list here doesn't even perfectly follow the sole source it's using! (Which is understandable, this isn't "List of games GamesRadar thinks are the best ever...")

Anyway, the only way to save this list from becoming random fanboys wandering past and adding "Halo was the best game evar!!" is to use objective criteria. Take a look at List of important operas, a Featured List, for an example, or Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States for something with a lot of good literature. I think the only comparable source we have are magazine top 25 / top 100 / etc. lists to really use here, which is unfortunate as they inherently want to generate some churn & linkbait rather than develop a staid "canon" list. Still, when used in aggregate, I think it's fine, and it's certainly better than contemporary reviews, which often do not reflect the long-term consensus of quality (and are famously erratic / swayable by company pressure). I would tentatively propose a scoring system along the lines of 5 points for being in a top 5, 4 points for top 6-15, 3 points for 16-25, and 2 points for 26-100 (if the list even includes such). Then we strictly take the "highest scoring" games (possibly adjusting a bit by decade - e.g. the 1980s have their own separate cutoff) and that's that, it's objective, the only subjective part will be choosing which lists to include. It'd ideally be nice to include some older lists as well, to reflect the consensus at the time, but this is tricky when few physical magazines have uploaded scans of their archives. Anyone want to volunteer toward digging some of these up? There's also something to be said for including some platform-specific lists, especially for PC Gaming (which covers many different eras), so long as the lists-per-platform is fairly balanced (e.g. 1 PC games list, 1 PlayStation 2 list, and so on).

Another note, and I don't think this is really fixable, is that the GamesRadar list explicitly notes that it only gives one game in a "series" a nod, and many other lists probably do this implicitly - which is good from a readership perspective, and really bad from an "objective" perspective, because what if both Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 are all top 10 quality? They could end up underepresented because three different magazines picked a different series standby to represent the entire series. Oh well, we'll worry about that when we get to it.

Anyway, I'll take a look and see if some usable top X lists can be found. SnowFire (talk) 00:30, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

I suppose I'm talking to myself here, but I did indeed compile a giant spreadsheet o' rankings. I suppose this can be used for "objective" criteria on subjective critic opinions... which will mean including a few odd ones (is Red Dead Redemption really best-of-all-time caliber?) and leaving off a few unfortuante candidates (Silent Hill 2 apparently was forgotten). I'll see if I can add it to the list. SnowFire (talk) 09:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi SnowFire, much thanks to your added content to this article. I had originally intended to include more sources from other websites than just GamesRadar, but you listed them perfectly. There is still room for polishing, of course. I was thinking about scratching the table system and instead dedicate one short text for each games which describes why and how it is considered a great game. Images could also be attached if necessarily. /Jonipoon (talk) 20:31, 20 November 2013 (CET)
Hrmm. That'd be good for a magazine piece, but it's tricky on Wikipedia. It does get done, but then ideally each little blurb is referenced as well. List of video games notable for negative reception uses the blurb style and has an "original research" complaint on it, for example. If you want to try it, go ahead, but let's keep the table as well for now.
Also, there's another advantage of the table: it's harder to edit, so it's somewhat less likely that people will stop in and just drop off "here's my favorite game ever!" (Which is an understandable urge, there's definitely some games I think are underrepresented here and the critical consensus shows a huge and obvious bias for AAA big budget games, but I'm sure everyone's list of games that should be here is slightly different, so that way lies madness.) SnowFire (talk) 05:33, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
The other obvious point to be nervous about blurbs, of course, is that if someone isn't familiar with the game, they can just click the link and see a full article, which will presumably include a "Reception" setting that covers why people thought the game was good in detail. If we did do blurbs, I'd want some kind of "spin" or value-add that showed why a game was particularly good in this context, which is really hard to find good sources on. Why exactly is Tetris one of the best games ever? This is a hard question! SnowFire (talk) 05:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

The Last Of Us / GTA V

Just two critically acclaimed totals that revolutionized their respective systems. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeitergeist1997 (talk • contribs) 22:26, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

As the Methodology section notes: "Very recent games are not usually represented either." Games released within the past 2 years can't possibly show up on lots of these lists, because they were published before then, and that's okay - some games end up as passing fads anyway. That said, GTA5 at least was on a few of the very recent ones, so we'll see. SnowFire (talk) 06:09, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Variants??

Why is there Tetris, Street Fighter II, and Counter-Strike listed here? Each port and versions of these games make them different games. It is also bias/unfair to combine awards from all ports/versions to reach the threshold to be on the list.

If the game is considered the best, the version released at that time should have all the awards. So all three should be removed.--Vaypertrail (talk) 22:25, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

I've removed "and variants", but the claim they should be removed is silly - World of WarCraft & Team Fortress 2 has changed greatly since it first came out, StarCraft having enduring popularity surely includes the Brood War expansion pack, etc. Tetris is Tetris, even it happens to have an unusually fraught history of its early releases on various systems. I just checked, and both the references mentioning SF2 don't talk about the expansions, so it seems safe to remove the disclaimer - that's just another game that happens to have an unusually large number of subtle variants. SnowFire (talk) 02:15, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Future additions

Figured I should set aside a section for this for when people inevitably want to add to this list.

It's important that, to be objective, it's not specific games that get added, but rather specific sources. In other words, if there's a good top X list out there (especially a Japanese / South Korean one!), I can totally add it to the spreadsheet o' doom and recalculate to see which games cross the threshold for inclusion. But doing it on a per-game basis is obviously biased; there are enough top X sources out there that if we simply said a game needed 3 references to be included, the list could explode to 300 entries. Picking the lists is tricky, too. Some of the better recent Top lists were specifically of the PS3/360/Wii generation, so to counteract that some from that generation being "overcounted", I used, say, the IGN list written in 2006 rather than a more recent one. Also, console-specific lists are tricky, because there's no guarantee that any games from that platform really qualify. So the broadest Top X lists, or Top X across a time period or generation, are definitely the best to include.

For the record, the current standings are as such. I didn't include the "score" in the article because it's obviously arbitrary, but it used the formula mentioned above: 5 for 1-5, 4 for 6-15, 3 for 16-25, 2 for 26-100. Cutoff point was 10 points, that basically guaranteed at least 3 references that gave a reasonably high ranking. 9 points is the bubble; I included the older games at 9 points, because older sources are underrepresented in the sources and continuing to make modern lists is more of an achievement for them, but didn't include the modern games at 9 points, since we'll see if they can stick around and get into future lists or not.

  • 24 : BioShock
  • 23 : Half-Life 2
  • 21 : Portal, World of WarCraft
  • 19 : Mass Effect 2, Tetris, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
  • 18 : Team Fortress 2
  • 17 : Super Metroid, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
  • 16 : Chrono Trigger, Red Dead Redemption
  • 15 : Grand Theft Auto IV, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4, Super Mario Bros.
  • 14 : Counter-Strike, Half-Life, Halo, SoulCalibur, Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario Galaxy 2
  • 13 : Deus Ex, Golden Eye 007
  • 12 : Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Super Mario 64, Uncharted 2
  • 11 : Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Grand Theft Auto 3, Metal Gear Solid, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, XCOM: UFO Defense
  • 10 : Civilization IV, Diablo 2, Fallout 3, Final Fantasy 6, Left 4 Dead, Super Mario Galaxy, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, The Legend of Zelda

-- Bubble starts here --

  • 9 : Braid, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Doom, Dragon Age: Origins, Grim Fandango, Mega Man 2, Metroid, Perfect Dark, Star Wars: TIE Fighter, StarCraft, StarCraft 2, Street Fighter II, Street Fighter IV

-- Cutoff point!--

  • 8 : Batman: Arkham City, Dark Souls, Donkey Kong, Minecraft, Rome: Total War
  • 7 : Assassin's Creed II, Baldur's Gate II, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Contra, Final Fantasy 7, Gran Turismo, Halo 2, Mass Effect, Metal Gear Solid 3, Portal 2, Super Mario Kart, System Shock 2, The Elder Scrolls IIi: Morrowind, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3

2014 Update

The above list is obsolete now that I stuck the Empire 2014 list in (it'd be nice if someone could find a good list published around 2000-2004, too, to get more perspective on games of the 90s - we're overrepresented in the 2000s at the moment). Not going to republish everything, but the short version is that w/ Empire, the following games crossed the threshold: Dark Souls, Arkham City, Final Fantasy 7, Call of Duty 4, Super Mario Kart, Dragon Age, & The Last of Us. Also should be noted that some of these lists are sneakily updating in the background rather than "versioning" their list - my spreadsheet of GamesRadar's list doesn't quite correspond to what they have up now, as they snuck in The Last Of Us and the like into their current list that I'm pretty sure wasn't in the 2013 version. Anyway, here's the bubble, which is the important part:

(Last of Us is at 15!)

  • 13: Fallout 3, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
  • 12: Batman: Arkham City, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Dark Souls, Diablo 2, Final Fantasy 7, Left 4 Dead,
  • 11: Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Doom, Dragon Age: Origins, Grand Theft Auto 3, Grim Fandango, StarCraft, Street Fighter II, XCOM: UFO Defense

-- Bubble starts here--

  • 10: Civilization IV, Final Fantasy 6, Super Mario Kart, The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario Galaxy
  • 9: Assassin's Creed II, Baldur's Gate II, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Braid, Grand Theft Auto 5, Journey, Mass Effect, Mega Man 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Metroid, Perfect Dark, Portal 2, Star Wars: TIE Fighter, StarCraft 2, Street Fighter IV, System Shock 2, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

-- Nope --

  • 8: Donkey Kong, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, League of Legends, Metal Gear Solid 2, Minecraft, Pokemon Red / Blue, Rome: Total War, Super Smash Bros. Brawl
  • 7: Contra, Gran Turismo, Halo 2, Planescape: Torment, Shadow of the Colossus, Super Mario World, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, Warcraft III

Per before, "old" games at 9 were included (= pre 1995 or so), "new" games with recentism bias weren't. SnowFire (talk) 03:03, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Recent edits to this page by User:Mammothphones

See the edits here: they appear to contain some vandalism, but they haven't been reverted yet. Jarble (talk) 19:35, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

This page has been hugely edited by IPs in the past few weeks. I was the one who made the original list with at least a semi-objective method... I should probably take some of the new sources added since and incorporate them in, but I don't want to commit WP:OWNership violation. On the other hand, if this list becomes "games Wikipedia editors like a lot" then that's trouble. The problem is that *any* well reviewed game can probably find a few sources of people calling it the best ever; a 3000 game long list isn't very useful, IMHO. I personally am on the side of keeping the list short and punchy; leave off the games that don't significantly appear in a *lot* of lists, with perhaps some leeway for pre-2000 games as sources for that era are harder to find.
Anyway, if any of the IP addresses editing this page see this, I'd love to chat about the methodology you're using to add games... you can see the one I used above. SnowFire (talk) 18:40, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
I've added a criteria of at least five sources for post-2000 games and four sources for pre-2000 games. That should hopefully prevent the list from becoming too bloated. 86.179.202.49 (talk) 22:26, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Who added the metacritic and gamerankings lists?

I am not objecting to them being there, just wondering who put them there. Also, I think games with a metacritic/gameranking score of 95+ should be there. If the list seems shortsighted for that, then we shoul add games with 90+. but let's start with 95+. Osh33m (talk) 22:12, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I think Rayman Legends deserves a spot. Featuring excellent graphics, fun co-op play and engaging missions, it was critically acclaimed. It received a Metascore of 92. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Easportsforever (talk • contribs) 15:21, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Countries section lacking sources

What exactly is up with the Countries-section? Though it makes sense to also list what video game is considered the best from many countries (I am indeed quite curious what the "best" Chilean video games are), the sources used in this section are horrendous:

  • "China: FTL: Faster Than Light is the 11th best PC video game ever according to PCGamer" sounds rather silly and doesn't even make clear the game is made in China.
  • "Chile: Rock of Ages is the best Chilean video game according to server PanamericanWorld.com." What even is this website? I have never heard of it, it doesn't seem to be an "expert" on the field of video games and again, it lists the best Latin American games, and Chile's game is on number three. Which brings me to:
  • "Argentina: Preguntados is the best video game from Latin America according to server PanamericanWorld.com." This game actually has an American release titled Trivia Crack.
  • "Finland: Max Payne is the most popular Finnish game." Most popular doesn't indicate quality, and this section doesn't explain at all how the book got to this conclusion.
  • "Japan ..." There are so many Japanese games already on the list itself, with The Ocarina of Time already being on top according to number of lists it appears on. All of the games listed in this section are already on the list, most of them very high up. It looks more like some people wanted to point out a little bit extra that they really like this game, for no real reason. A Japan section could work if we would only base it on games Japanese sources site as the best (so we can contrast these results with the international sources used in the main list), but right now, this section is just useless, and I would vote for it specifically to be removed.
  • "Kenya ... Nigeria" These two countries are based on a top 10 by IT News Africa, perhaps not a particularly reliable source to be used to define the best game from a specific country. The games themselves do not even seem to have their own articles. Again, the lack of back-up here makes it impossible to take serious.

I am all for trying to figure out what the best games are from countries that don't get as much credit in English speaking media. Most of the sources we're using come from the United States and they have a great bias for games published within their borders. However, unless we can find at least a few sources agreeing on a title, we really can't include it in this article. Does anyone have an idea on how to fix this issue?

It might be a good idea to list sources covering the "greatest games of all times" in non-US/Japan countries on the talk page and only add information to the list itself when we have enough to base such an inclusion on. ~Mable (chat) 09:58, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Tekken release years

Say, @Osh33m:, I can't help but notice some minor edit warring going on. What exactly is the problem with the release years for Tekken here? Do you know why it keeps being changed? ~Mable (chat) 05:16, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@TheTimesAreAChanging:, could we please discuss this before it gets changed again? Which version of the games are we really talking about? The original arcade version, or the console version(s)? ~Mable (chat) 06:00, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
Since they're basically the same, I would assume we should use the earlier year, as we do for all of the other arcade games in the list.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 06:07, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
No. Using the arcade years do not make sense because clearly, the sources are describing the playstation versions, which are 1996 and 1998 respectively. If you don't believe that, why don't you think about why tekken 3 on the gamesranking list is 1998 and not 1997? There you go. If you have it listed as 1998 there and 1997 on the conglomerated list then it is inconsistent. Osh33m (talk) 14:11, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
@TheTimesAreAChanging:, the arcade versions and playstation versions of the tekken games are NOT the same at all, whatsoever - the arcade versions are just that, the arcade mode gameplay which is included in the playstation version, along with the rest of the full, packaged, retail game...Osh33m (talk) 14:13, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
I haven't played either version, so I have no idea how different they are, but I would assume that there's a good chance most, if not all the sources, are praising the console version. If they really are notably different, I'd think the retail release years should be listed. That being said, TimesAreAChanging, you say that there are other games on this list where we specifically give the release date of the arcade version rather than the console port? I'd like to know what games they are, so we can compare them with this case. I'd say a game like Pac-Man, for example, would have the release date of its arcade version listed here, as that version is the one most people are talking about. ~Mable (chat) 16:11, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
The arcade & PS1 versions of Tekken 2 & 3 are almost identical, since the System 11 & 12 are based on the PS1. The only differences are that the PS1 versions add several additional modes, while at the same time cutting some graphics from T3 (because PS1 is weaker than System 12). Either way, one of the Tekken 3 sources is a 1997 EGM list which specifically lists the arcade version, so it would be inconsistent to list its release date as 1998 when one of its sources is from 1997. And finally, the column heading is "original release year", which means the date it first released, regardless of platform or popularity. That's why, for example, Tetris is listed as 1984, despite the 1984 version never being released outside the USSR. I don't see why Tekken should be any different. RetroGameFan (talk) 18:56, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
That is one source while the vast majority of the sources listed are talking about the playstation versions. You say that the only differences are the modes when really, they make it a very big difference since there's much more to the retail version than the arcade version. You want to talk about inconsistency? Again, the gamesranking list has tekken 3 as 1998. I am the one who originally added the tekken games to these lists, and I'm reverting the dates again Osh33m (talk) 02:23, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
The majority of Tetris sources talk about the Game Boy version, so does that mean Tetris should be changed from 1984 to 1989? And what about all the other games with multiple versions? The column heading specifically says "original release year", clearly referring to the first version that released, so it doesn't matter which version is most popular. As for Tekken 3, the PS1 version adds extra modes, but it also cut out some graphics, like the background in Ogre's stage. As for GameRankings, it doesn't cover arcade games, so why would it list the arcade date? Besides, it's completely separate from the main table, so there's no inconsistency there, compared to having a glaring contradiction within the main table itself, where it'd appear a 1997 source is awarding a 1998 game. And finally, if you were the one who originally added it, WP:Ownership. RetroGameFan (talk) 06:09, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Guys, if you don't stop edit warring, I'll request a temporary lock -_- Reach consensus and then change the article. There is no deadline. ~Mable (chat) 08:03, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

My point when I said I was the one who added it originally was that those games might've not been on the list like they were supposed to if I hadn't added tekken 3 in the first place. As for tetris, if the majority of the awards are for the gameboy version then I would say yes, the year should be changed, but my fight here is for the tekken games, not tetris. now you've begun listing some of the reasons why tekken 3 the home version is much more than what the arcade version was aside from the setbacks. if gamerankings doesn't cover arcade games, that should tell you something about all the awards that are listed on the main list - that they are being attributed to the home version. Osh33m (talk) 16:49, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Does this mean we should try to figure out the exact version that is most critically acclaimed of each game on this list? How different are the original Tetris, the well-known Tetris on the GameBoy and, let's say, Tengen Tetris? Perhaps it's the most important to really understand what function the years serve in this list. ~Mable (chat) 17:35, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
That's up for you to decide. Like I said, my fight here is for the tekken games. Before tekken 6, the routine for these games were arcade releases and a year later, playstation releases. that's straight forward. and the playstation releases were the full, retail game home releases. most of the awards pertain to the home releases and with that logic in mind, the retail releases are what should be on the list. Osh33m (talk) 18:54, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
The only thing that really matters to me here is consistency: I don't mind if we list games according to their very first release or to their popular releases, but we should understand why we pick the dates the way we do. This topic is much bigger than just Tekken though - for example, Street Fighter II was released in arcades a year prior to its first retail release as well. I don't see how Tekken would be in any way different to that game. ~Mable (chat) 19:37, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

MGS: The Phantom Pain

Surely Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain deserves a spot in this list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Easportsforever (talk • contribs) 09:35, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

You realize how new the game is, right? :p No sources could have probably covered it yet. We wait for that to happen - might take a few years. No hurry, this is an all-time list :) ~Mable (chat) 10:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Metacritic and Gamerankings

Since all-time best scores from Metacritic and Gamerankings are already taken into consideration on the main list, why are there lists for Metacritic and Gamerankings as "other criteria"? These lists, in my opinion, should be removed from the article. It would be okay to have them displayed if they had not been used in the main list, but as it is now, it serves no purpose. -- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 03:19, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Similar project

There is a website which has not been updated since 2012 that follows a line of thought very similar to the one used when creating this article. There are a few more lists not included here that could be useful for the ranking. The website is http://www.jjmccullough.com/games.htm

Some links to the lists are dead, but can be accessed through http://web.archive.org

I hope this can be useful. -- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 17:53, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Color reversion

In this edit I reverted ThiagoSimoes well-meaning coloration changes to the "Video games by the number of 'best games ever" lists' table. The table is sortable, so I don't see a real benefit being provided by adding colors. Aesthetically, the colors do overwhelm the table and the page, IMO. Beyond that, we should be sure that changes like these still provide for a high contrast ratio between text and background colors per WP:COLOR. While most of the backgrounds I tested seem to work okay with black text, the default link color on some browsers (Chrome for example) is #0000EE, which, on a background of #FFA07A doesn't fully conform to WCAG 2.0 AAA. (Useful tool is here). Technical drivel aside, if the community decides that colors are what the table needs, we need to make sure that the data is still accessible to the visually impaired. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:37, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm fond of colors, but I didn't feel like the way Thiago added them really added much to the list. I have to agree that the article is better off without the color coding. I am open to other ideas for how to use color coding, though. A way to make it easier on the eye might be to only color code one column of the table, instead of the entire table. ~Mable (chat) 08:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Might be reasonable. Though I think Thiago linked the colors to the Original platform column. All "Arcade" entries were colored yellow, all "PC"s were colored salmon-ish, and so on. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 09:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Cyphoidbomb is right. I tried to sort the colors by platform, but I have to say the final result is not exactly what I expected. I decided to leave it that way and add a note that the changes could be reverted with no loss to the content of the article, so the other users and editors could decide what best suits the article. I think the revert is for the best, actually. -- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 13:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Yobot removing spaces between citations

The Yobot automatically removed all the spaces between the references, which messes up the table. How could this be fixed? ~Mable (chat) 10:05, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Not your problem, it's up to bot owners to write well-behaved bots. Go to [[1]] and request the page be blacklisted from Yobot or the issue otherwise fixed. SnowFire (talk) 22:45, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Project page

I created a project page you may be interested in. There is also pwnrank which is similar. SharkD  Talk  23:18, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Very useful ^_^ ~Mable (chat) 09:38, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Five Nights at Freddy's

Five Nights at Freddy's was been prased from the Critics and gamers alike which the ratings is 85% (PC) 80% (iOS) from GameRankings, 78 outta 100 from Metacritic, 4 and a Half outta Five Stars in Game Revolution and 80 outta 100 PC Gamer US which it become as the best point and click survival horror game ever maded in 2014. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coolcpend (talk • contribs) 09:15, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

If Undertale gets a spot on this list (even thought it's a) too young to deserve a spot and b) a really mediocre game, then Five Night's at Freddy's deserves a spot.

I'm surprise Undertale got so many listing within just a few months to get added to the list as well. Are the listings added all according to the established rules of the given methodology? Furthermore, could any other games be added now more sources are used? I have a hard time imagining eight new sources equaling only one new game. ~Mable (chat) 21:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

199.193.147.190

So, I didn't know "best video games" meant "blatant Zelda bias." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.193.147.190 (talk • contribs)

Talk pages should be used to discuss improvements to articles, not for random complaints. If you have specific suggestions for how to improve the article, feel free to continue the discussion. Alternatively, since this is a volunteer project, you could volunteer your time and make the improvements yourself. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:41, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria (and recent edit warring)

There are individuals changing/reverting back and forth now, definitely to the point of edit warring. As someone who is relatively new to this article, I'm wondering what criteria should be used here? Is this list referring to the "best of all time"? If so, games appearing on a list of "best games of 2015" or any other year, should certainly not be sufficient criteria for inclusion. If it isn't, and just appearing on a single year's best of list, albeit multiple lists is sufficient, this list will probably get out of control. Caidh (talk) 05:26, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

The edit warring is starting to get really bad... ~Mable (chat) 11:41, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

MGSV and The Witcher

How come The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt is in the list of video games considered the best, when the sources given are dated before the release of the game? I might have looked past it, but it was kinda odd. Both Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain and Wild Hunt won at least five Game of the Year awards so I figured that either both games could be on here or neither could be on here. Lacon432 (talk) 01:54, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Good catch Lacon, it appeared someone (intentionally or unintentionally) copied/pasted old references to the Witcher 3 listing, which definitely predate the original game. There didn't appear to be a *single* reference actually about Witcher 3. I wonder how many other references on this list are broken/invalid. Regardless, since the references are all invalid I've removed the game from the list. If there are significant valid references (in my opinion, they should be references specifically referring to the game as one of the best ever, not just best of 2015, then it can be removed. Caidh (talk) 05:25, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Issue in references column

It seems like not everyone sees the same issue that I do, and since I find it difficult to explain it, I took a screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/5a6Uwgy.png

I do think the best way to solve this issue is by placing spaces between each ref, but these spaces keep getting removed. Opinions? ~Mable (chat) 21:59, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I can't tell what the issue is, I think that's how it's supposed to look. Adding spaces between the refs would attract the bot that fixes spaces between refs, because that's against one of the manuals of style. What is the issue? Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 22:28, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
The issue is that the references column is needlessly wide. This is the only Wikipedia article that makes a second scrollbar appear for my browser. Surely, this is not an intended effect? The table definitely looked more attractive in this version, don't you agree? I don't believe the manual of style rule applies in this case, as we're not dealing with inline citations (I suppose possibly covered by WP:IAR) ~Mable (chat) 09:52, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

New source: The latest PC Gamer list

The PC Gamer list was updated last autumn. You can find it here. -Makkool (talk) 10:03, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Ocarina of Time Omission?

Maybe I'm not schooled to the methodology of this chart on the page, but Ocarina of Time is nowhere to be found, even though every list I've ever seen includes it somewhere. There are 5 other Zelda games on this chart, and only LTTP is as frequent in my findings. I know that sounds like original research or whatever, but I'm certain if one cross referenced these lists they'd find OoT AT LEAST more than 5 times. Or is there some other factor that I'm missing out on? 2601:3C7:8200:D757:D57F:7EBA:F016:BCC1 (talk) 01:54, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

The missing factor is vandalism.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 02:45, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

List inclusion criteria

I see that this has been brought up as an issue before, and I don't think that the solution is a proper one. This list seems to have invented a definition of what it is to be a "game considered the best". It's a reasonable definition, but if there aren't any reliable sources we can cite which have published this definition, then Wikipedia is inventing it. If that's the case, then the whole list is WP:SYNTHESIS. That would make this a deletable article, I think, but before going that route I wanted to see if the definition can be refined or reliably sourced. Thoughts? Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 22:33, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

I think the intro definition is fine, myself; it's as if the full title of the article is "List of video games considered the best by video game journalists", similar to how List of important operas could be phrased more fully as "List of important operas according to opera experts." If the article was "List of the best video games [according to Wikipedia editors]" it'd be more problematic. I agree there *are* OR problems as far as source selection, but I don't really follow about "invented a definition." Do you want a source that says games are considered the best when they're listed as the best? Not really sure what exactly you're looking for... I think we're reflecting the content of the articles pretty exactly as is, so not sure where I see the potential-OR "invention," unless you think these lists really meant something else (what?). SnowFire (talk) 03:26, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
I think these "considered best/worst" lists are weird (because it's almost like Wikipedia is endorsing best/worst labels) and crufty to begin with, but if they must exist, either the leads or the article titles should be clear as to intention. Some of the pitches above are okay. Maybe "List of video games that have made critics' 'best game' lists"? Wordy. I deliberately used plurals so that the base standard is that the game has made multiple lists. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:16, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
But that's the problem. We've given these games a quality ranking based on the number of times they've appeared in "best of" lists. The definition that we've created here is that a game is considered better (more "the best") if it has appeared on more lists; we spelled it out pretty clearly in the "methodology" section. This list should be stripped down, really: if a game is "considered the best" it should be in this list, but it is not encyclopedic to rank a game higher in the list based on the number of lists it appears in. That's the part that's original research. Our list clearly states that The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is definitively better than Chrono Trigger because it has appeared in three more "best of" lists. I don't think you can source that. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 14:31, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
Okay. I've not dispute that if it appears on a single best list it can be added. I agree that putting them in order of how many best lists they've appeared on, is problematic. Alphabetical seems a reasonable solution. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:18, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
I understand how someone could come to the conclusion that this list is saying that Ocarina of Time is better than Chrono Trigger, but such conclusion would be the result of synthesis from the material presented here. The article actually only says that more critics have listed one game than another (not that the number of lists actually "makes it better"), which is true, and is certainly something that the sources can and do support. To have a game that's appeared on 32 lists and one that appears on only 11 listed side by side without any distinction between the two seems like it would be a lot more misleading. Now, if we were to change the default presentation of the table to say the year of release instead, then I don't see any problem with that, since readers can then sort the table by whichever criteria they want. However, I do feel that including the number of lists that a game appears on someone in table is something that is necessary in order to get an accurate picture of the information being presented. Vorpal76 (talk) 19:54, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Games I'm surprised aren't here

Baldur's Gate II Team Fortress 2 Pokemon Gold and Silver Braid The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt System Shock 2 Rome: Total War Undertale Shovel Knight Minecraft Batman: Arkham Asylum Civilisation IV Civilisation V XCOM: UFO Defense Dragon Age: Origins Starcraft 2 Mass Effect Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 Assassin's Creed II Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag Warcraft III Planescape Torment

Keep in mind this isn't bias, I haven't played all of these, it's just that these get referred to as some of the greatest, and they aren't here. Especially Baldur's Gate II, Braid, TF2, MGSV, Witcher 3, and Pro Skater 2.

Wedcvujnmugyoj7ygnokmitf (talk) 08:50, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Whether they're listed or not purely depends on whether they appear on enough of the lists on the table. Search through the lists and, if you find the requisite number of sources for a title, then it should indeed be included. For the newer titles, (i.e. The Witcher 3, etc.) my guess would be that they probably haven't appeared on enough all times lists yet (which isn't to say that might not change in a year or two) but for the older titles, I'm sure you're right, some of them probably have appeared on enough lists to warrant inclusion. It's just a matter of collecting the sources.
Vorpal76 (talk) 07:42, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Some of the sources don't actually have lists which come up. How do I know what these lists have?
Keiran'sawanker (talk) 17:34, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
I haven't come across any that have dead links, or that don't link to what they claim to, so I believe all of the lists should be verifiable in some form. There are, of course, a number that come from print publications. In some cases, there are scans from these available online, other times you have to just reference the physical copy.
Vorpal76 (talk) 03:13, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

May 16, 2016 updates

I have followed this page for a while now, mostly contributing to the format of the list. I've worked on two updates for the list today. The first one fixes the issue with the way the references are displayed. A minor nuisance is that when sorting the table through other methods, games with 21 or more references are apparently duplicated. While not perfect, this is possibly the best workaround to the serious display issue that was plaguing the list before.

The second update is a lot more drastic. I've double checked every entry and corrected the reference count for each entry. Other fixes include eliminating links where they did not belong, and adding the correct original platform for some games. There was a lot of work put into all of this. I am aware, though, that one final change might be controversial: I decided to streamline the criteria for inclusion and now games must be mentioned on 10 different lists to make it to the article. Seventy-four different lists were selected and analysed, and I strongly believe ten is an appropriate number for minimum inclusion. This list is supposed to be a list of the absolute best games ever, and usually the lists that have been consulted elect 100 games. As of now, 96 games made it to this article, and while it might be a subjective matter to decide when something is too big or too much, I believe this is a more than adequate number of games for the scope of what this article tries to convey.

If there is not enough consensus on this number, please do NOT undo this update. Instead, copy part of the source code from an earlier revision listing only the games which received five to nine mentions on the lists, and paste this fraction of the code to the current article. There are major fixes for games which have received ten or more mentions, and undoing my update would render these fixes useless.

-- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 17:45, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

I have no issue with 10, but I might suggest that earlier games will have lesser opportunity to have been included on more lists (which would cause WP:RECENTISM).

However, the "fix for how the references" was displayed was a bad solution (or perhaps splitting these references into two rows was a problem prior). The correct solution for that is to have all references in a single cell. Breaking them for display can be accomplished by the use of <br/> rather than separate cells. --Izno (talk) 17:59, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

You are right! It does work! I tried this a few months ago and the results were different. I'm glad it works now. Thank you for coming up with an excellent solution.

Now, when it comes to older games not being fairly represented, it is a good idea to take a look at what games are, indeed, represented now. So far, we have: 1 game from the 1970s, 18 games from the 1980s, 38 games from the 1990s, 32 games from the 2000s, and 7 games from the 2010s. Out of 96 games, 57 games were released from 1978 to 1999, and 39 games were released from 2000 to 2013. I believe representation is fair, but it is important to reach consensus about this issue. -- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 22:20, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Move request

The article's title currently says "List of video games considered the best" based on dozens of video game journalists' top 10 or 100 lists; however, the journalists, as the person who tagged the entire article as original research suggested, are not necessarily calling these games the best, but rather the greatest, so I propose that the article be moved to "List of video games considered the greatest". Gamingforfun365 (talk) 23:02, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Minecraft should be listed

There are 11 lists that refer to Minecraft as one of the greatest games ever, so it should be added to the article, and the lists that refer to the game as such are here:

  • List 13
  • List 36
  • List 41
  • List 46
  • List 63
  • List 66
  • List 71
  • List 73
  • List 79
  • List 82
  • List 89

Gamingforfun365 (talk) 00:58, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

I have already added the game to see what happens. Gamingforfun365 (talk) 01:55, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Question

Isn't this article a massive violator of WP:OVERCITE? There has to be a better way to keep the sources, but not directly show 20+ of them per game, right? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:51, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Sonic The Hedgehog CD

A 10/10 from a Sega-16, A 88.57% average on GameRankings,. Where is it on this list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheJoebro64 (talk • contribs) 21:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

A perfect score for a Sega fansite really isn't all that noteworthy. While an 88% at GR is good, looking at the sort of sourcing shown in the article, you must realize that a stronger argument than this would be required to put it on the list, right? Sergecross73 msg me 16:25, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
Just found another link: http://www.gamesradar.com/why-sonic-cd-one-greatest-games-all-time/ (TheJoebro64 (talk) 00:11, 20 February 2017 (UTC))

Number of sources

I strongly believe that in order to avoid confusion we should limit the games being displayed to at least eight different sources. There are currently 100 games that fit this criteria, and this is more than enough, in my opinion, to offer a broad view on what games are considered all-time best games. I also recommend that we keep a topic on this talk page listing the games that were nominated in 5, 6 or 7 sources, so they could be added to the list in the future if an eighth source mentions them. -- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 02:42, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Normally I'd express some skepticism here since this would make it even tougher for "recent" games to show up, but checking the list, everything <8 isn't very recent anyway, so I'd agree that they should be moved off to a subpage. (Okay, there's 1 recent entry, but it's got a measly 3 sources and is probably too recent anyway in The Witcher 3?! That should definitely go.) SnowFire (talk) 06:57, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
I agree. Getting rid of everything with 8 sources or less is a pretty good idea to shorten the list. (Farewell, Earthbound :c ) ~Mable (chat) 09:07, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
I would agree with this in theory, but I think it could prove problematic because, as I've combed through these lists, many of these titles actually appear on more lists than they're currently given credit for. EarthBound is a great example, a few days ago it was credited as appearing on only 7 lists (hence would have been subject to deletion with the increased count), but after checking through may of the lists on the table, I've found that it appears on at least 14 of them, and I'm sure that I'm probably missing some (or in other words, it clearly fits the criteria even with the increased requirement). Other games such as Phantasy Star Online weren't on the list, I've found it listed on 7 so far so I included it, but I'm sure that it appears on others that I've missed. So, if all of my work from the last couple of days proves anything, I hope that it's if a game appears on at least 5 lists, than there's a very good chance that it actually appears on more than that. It's just a matter of doing the research and being thorough. If we increased the limit to 8, then I think most of the titles that would be deleted in the process would technically still belong on here, it's just that their sources lists aren't complete. If and when the required number is increased, I think that anything higher than that would feel excessive. Eight sources listing a game as an "All Time Best" is a pretty strong consensus, strong enough that I feel they certainly achieve "notable" status and should be mentioned here. Vorpal76 (talk) 19:44, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
If not for this, then something else should be done. Isn't there a template that collects all the references and places them in some sort of tool-tip for readability? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

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Question about sources

Greetings, everyone!

I added Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn to the list, after managing to scrape together 10 sources. I've noticed that other games use lists from the same publication in their citations; for example, IGN's Top 100 Games, for 2005, for 2007, for 2010, and so on. And, doing this, their source count is increased. Shouldn't those lists count as a single reference, since they are often the same list merely updated every few years? I could do the same for Shadows of Amn, since I think it is listed a few times, for example, on the different IGN lists; but something tells me that it is not right. GeoffreyA (talk) 08:29, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

  • I agree, or else people would just try and overcite to prove that a game belongs here. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 08:22, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

I have a serious issues with the number of Nintendo only sources here. Yes, they are the longest continual producer of games and have an incredible back catalogue, but surely including publications such as Nintendo Power skews this entire ranking towards them. Either include other dedicated manufacturer publications or (more likely) remove them! 107.208.228.155 (talk) 16:59, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

  • But we can't just ignore them either. We really should have a readjustment of the qualifications here; maybe make it mandatory to include 3 or 4 third-party publications to fix that. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 17:03, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Internet Era Bias

So this article bases its claim that the best games are rated the highest by lists created by critics. But this leaves out many games from the 1970's and 1980's. This was before the commercial internet! Reviews were published in (a very few) magazines. Most of the lists cited didn't even exist!

There are no text based games on the list. Where is Zork? Also, many early arcade games seem to be missing. Pac-man? Centipede? Donkey Kong? Joust? And the adventure games of Sierra were hugely popular. Where is Kings Quest? Space Quest?

This list seems to exclude entire eras and genres of games. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.248.45 (talk) 03:49, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

No Amiga - Atari ST - 16bit era games

As an addition to the first remark about Internet era bias, which I suppose points towards the lack of 8bit computer games (Commodore 64, Sinclair Spectrum, Amstrad CPC - only Elite on BBC Micro is mentioned). I consider the article untrustworthy because there cannot be a list of best video games with no 16 bit era games in it; especially on the Amiga computer. A great collection of fantastic, original games is excluded.

  • Well in all fairness I don't think its an Internet bias so much as an American bias. Many of the sites and publications that have put out "best of" lists are American, so they naturally gravitate towards platforms popular in that country. The Spectrum, BBC Micro, and Amstrad CPC were not widespread in North America, and many of the Commodore 64, Atari ST, and Amiga games that enthralled European audiences either failed to make it to the United States or failed to have much impact there. This article is bound by what games reliable sources have listed, so that is going to naturally omit much of the European scene. Indrian (talk) 20:39, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
This isn't about which games are fantastic. This is about which games have reliable sources that they're considered the best, especially in contrast with other games. While I agree that computer games sometimes require computer-specific sources and wholeheartedly agree with trying to include as many computer-game sources as possible, demanding per platform or per time period games to appear or else "be biased" is the wrong approach. Maybe there wasn't anything good on the Spectrum as far as later reviewers were concerned, or it all faded away too quickly. For example, if there was a list somewhere of the "best 20 games from the Atari Jaguar" or some other forgotten console, it's not a very useful source. What would be useful are sources that are overviews of computer games in general that happen to think Commodore 64 games are worthy of inclusion. It is entirely possible that these sources do not actually exist, and in that case, it doesn't mean the games were any less fantastic, merely that game journalists ignore them - which is stated right at the start of the article. Basically I'm saying that I don't think the globalize tag is helpful, so should be removed. If you can find good sources, add them, though. SnowFire (talk) 07:19, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

The Witcher 3 should be on this list

I know it was released only two years ago, but a totally critically acclaimed game and the players as well, in addition to having won over 250 goty awards and being often referred to as the best 8th generation console game, I think it should Join this list. An excellent game like The Witcher 3 should not be left out of this list, since it has The Last of Us and GTA V included.(Sorry for some grammar error.) 21:11, 28 August 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:7F0:A090:B43C:6554:5DFD:621C:B50A (talk)

I agree that this list is a mess and needs a complete remake and review for what sources we use. The problem is that we need a group of editors to be involved to help speed up the process and make sure any new/updated sources are all agreed upon to be reliable. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:47, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

This article is a mess

Sorry, but there are just too many problems here. The sources are arbitrary and there is absolutely no way to justify the main list. Metacritic and Gamerankings (is the latter even notable, though?) can be used to compare games. How many sources one can scrounge up to support their favourite game can not. There's a comment not far up in which one user admits to having found enough sources to include their favourite game. It seems he was far from the only one to do this. What establishes the notability of a gaming media source? Why are many of them from the same source, and simply from different years or publications? Many of them are also quite specific; I see titles like "Top 100 Arcade Games" or "Games of the generation" or "Top PC games", even one "Top console games". Then there are much more specific ones such as "Best of their time", "Best console games of the 80's" and national picks. Some are actual blog polls. Honestly, this article can only be saved by changing the title to something like "highest-rated on Metacritic" or whatever and then only doing that. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 13:21, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

While I 100% agree that the use of sources is a mess, I disagree that Metacritic is the answer. That's measuring something different than what this article was, at least originally. Metacritic shows reviews made at time of release, while this article focuses on historical retrospectives. By analogy with movies, we're looking for games that stood the test of time, not merely games that got a lot of hype on release, or that have publishers who pressure the reviewers to hand out high scores. There's much less fear of bias in retrospectives, as nobody is getting paid for hyping older games.
I also disagree that using "specific" lists is a problem; see the complaint above, which is basically the reverse of this - that there aren't ENOUGH "specific" lists being used. No journalist has played every game ever, so narrowing the field a bit is a perfectly respectable thing to do. While TOO specific a list is problematic - "Best XBox 360 games" or the like - something like "Best PC games of the 90s" suggests that subject-matter experts of that field are writing the article, which is actually a good sign of reliability, not a bad one. SnowFire (talk) 07:25, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Are you saying we shouldn't use Metacritic at all? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:46, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
I think it's fine as a single source among many. I wouldn't want it to overwhelm the other sources cited, though. SnowFire (talk) 23:27, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Agreed then. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:30, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi. I added a new column giving the number of lists that a game topped. I think this approach would bring this article more in line with List of films considered the best, which only takes into account the top-ranking film of each list. 86.177.75.175 (talk) 03:12, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
Sorry to be a grump, but... I disagree. (I've disagreed with a lot of where this table has gone - I'd remove all the genre bloat columns too, so don't take me too seriously, I don't want to be overbearing and could be wrong.) #1 is very swingy. Is there much difference between #1 and #2? I doubt it. It makes different list criteria much swingier as well, as #1 on a "best games of all time" list is more impressive than "best games of a more specific criteria". As another comment, tables shouldn't spread out endlessly horizontally if they want to be mobile-friendly on low resolutions - there's already too many columns. What I *do* agree with is somehow baking in place-in-the-list into figuring out what deserves hype, but not do something as dramatic as #1 vs. everything else - maybe something more like you get 5 points for #1-10, 4 points for #11-25, and 3 points for #26-100 (I did something like that above in one of the earlier versions of this article). Of course, this can't really be directly stuck in the article as being a bit arbitrary, but it could be used to quietly create the criteria for inclusion. SnowFire (talk) 04:05, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
If this is kept, we should at the very least massively shorten the column header so there isn't tons of wasted space. If you want to keep the data you researched, we could also potentially move it into its own table. SnowFire (talk) 04:08, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
I agree with SnowFire on this, and thus reverted back to the last good version until this can be discussed more first. This entire article needs major cleanup, if not a complete rewrite. Perhaps we can enlist the help of WP:VG and make it a large community project? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 05:10, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
I was thinking the article should be more along the lines of List of films considered the best, which exclusively lists only the #1 ranked film on each list, not anything below that (unless if it's for individual countries or genres). I think it would make sense to do the same here. But if you guys don't agree with altering the main table, then I'm quite happy with SnowFire's suggestion of having the data for #1 ranked games moved to a separate table. 86.177.75.175 (talk) 05:53, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
I went ahead and moved the #1 ranked data to a separate table, as suggested by SnowFire above. If you guys feel there is any issue with it, then feel free to mention it here or edit the article. 86.177.75.175 (talk) 16:58, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
Belated, but I think the "games by top appearances" list could use some sort of a minimum threshold - the entries that topped only 1 list for sure, and maybe the entries that only topped two lists as well. These lists are useful in so far as they aggregate various lists, and appearing on a single list isn't an aggregation. (That said, it's good you compiled it, which makes it easy to see if a new list means that a game crosses the threshold to enough entries to merit mention...) SnowFire (talk) 22:51, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
I've lowered the threshold to 2 lists. With a threshold of 3 lists, only 18 games make the cut, which wouldn't be enough for a top 20. Whereas with a threshold of 2 lists, 33 games make the cut, which is more ideal. 86.146.6.48 (talk) 23:39, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

(de-indent) That's looking at it the wrong way. It's not "how many entries do we want", it's "what makes a good list." With certain very, very good sources, maybe we trust them solo, but we have a lot of crappy lists in there as well. Take Galaga; it cites the "All-Time" 2012 Time list as one of the ones it appears on, but the real link is mostly dead and the archive version is wacky and doesn't seem to indicate an order at all. The other list it includes, the 1997 EGM Developer's picks, isn't on the big compiled list of lists as best I can see and seems like a bit of a sketchy list anyway, like a side list to the real list? Not sure, no online source! This isn't to rag on Galaga specifically, but more to make an overall point. When there's a lot of crappy sources, you expect a fair amount of "noise" from bad lists or typos or mistakes, but it averages out over time - one misfiled list isn't going to change much if you need 10 lists to appear. When a single entry is the difference between appearing and not appearing, you should only want to use extremely high quality sources if you can trust that level of "precision." I don't trust the current level of precision, so we should correct for that by requiring a lot of sources. If that means the list is short, so be it. SnowFire (talk) 06:24, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

In that case, it would be better to make sure the lists themselves are of higher quality, rather than increasing the threshold. Looking at the sources, the Time source probably shouldn't be used, since it doesn't have an order. As for the EGM developers' picks, that one has several developers giving their own separate top 10 lists. I think it's worth including the number 1 picks of each of the developers, one of which is Galaga. But the Time source should probably be removed from the ranking list. Generally, it's more difficult for a game to top two lists than it is for it to merely appear on ten lists, hence why I think the two-list criteria is best. But your point about the quality of the sources themselves is also important. By the way, thanks for this link. Looks very useful. 86.146.6.48 (talk) 08:27, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
After removing the Time source, the top-rank list has been cut from 33 games down to 26 games. And after trimming other un-ordered lists, it's been further cut down to 23 games. 86.146.6.48 (talk) 08:54, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
Well, the point wasn't to rag on any one source specifically, it was to suggest that the problem was in general. There are other sources that have just as many problems as the TIME one most likely. While fixing them all is hard, using a high threshold means that it's unlikely ALL of the sources used are bogus.
Also, the "we'll show it if it is #2 on enough lists" criteria feels very arbitrary. I'd be in favor of just keeping it simple if we include it at all and have only 3+ lists and up. Anyone want to step in with a third opinion on this?
While I'm someone who thinks that Wikipedia is too harsh on Fair use, there's no way that OOT screenshot qualifies as fair use here. The fair use police don't really like it when these show up on "list" articles, and if it does, it needs to either be a logo, or else have some sort of artistic commentary. That isn't what's being done here (maybe for "best graphics ever?"), so I don't think it's gonna fly. SnowFire (talk) 07:51, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
After removing the Time list, I also removed a number of other lists found to be un-ranked, which cut down the table even further. Now only 20 games top 2 or more lists, out of which only 10 games top 3 or more lists. If there are any other sources with similar issues, then feel free to point them out. I don't mind a two-list criteria, but I think a three-list criteria is too strict. It's significantly more difficult for games to top two lists, or even get #2 on two lists, than it is to appear in the top 25/50/100 on ten lists. I think the criteria for the top-rank table is already fairly strict as it is, unlikely to suffer from table bloat. As for the image, I looked at the List of films considered the best article and found it uses images of several films such as Citizen Kane, so thought it might be a good idea to do the same for Ocarina of Time here. I'm not entirely sure about the rules on images though, so I'll leave that to the discretion of other users to decide whether it should stay, be removed, or be replaced. 86.146.6.48 (talk) 08:55, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
After cutting down two more unranked lists, now only 17 games top 2 or more lists (less than the 18 games previously listed as topping 3 or more lists). 86.146.6.48 (talk) 09:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
As a compromise, I've increased the criteria to three or more lists for games that ranked #1 and #2, and two or more lists for games that ranked #1. As a result, the table has now been reduced down to 23 games in total. 86.146.6.48 (talk) 10:56, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Wait, why would unranked lists be removed? It's relatively easy to pick out the entries on this list that are (1) user-generated (readers respond), (2) unreliable sources (just compare most against the list at WP:VG/RS), and (3) company-specific (Nintendo Power's list of "all time" bests is not working from the same pool as Time). Ranking shouldn't matter, to be honest. The point of this list is that games magazines from time immemorial have made "best of all time" declarations, and this is an accounting of the most routine mentions in those lists. I'd consider the act of counting the #1s or the most mentions to be futile as well as not the point of the list. Remember that each list is going to have its own relatively arbitrary cut-off and that many magazines use the feature as clickbait/churnalism (see discussion re: the Time piece at WT:VG). Let's not make inclusion any more holy than it need be. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 06:41, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Methodology section

@Phediuk:, re this edit: First of all, usual asterisk that it's great that you're tackling the issue. That said, while it should be rewritten for the current standard, I incredibly disagree that removing the "Methodology" section somehow helps. All lists of this sort have a methodology; some just don't tell you what it is. (See List_of_important_operas#Lists_consulted or Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States#Notable_scholar_surveys or the like.) Additionally, I think discussing the problems and provisos of this method helps deal with complaints of bias or OR; Wikipedia can fairly say that it is mirroring sources X, Y, and Z, but X / Y / Z maybe cover this time period less, or this region's games less, etc. If anything I'd think it's one of the most important sections to keep, so that the list doesn't devolve into "let me add my favorite game," which really would be WP:OR. A statement that firmly says what the rules are helps deal with this. (Even if these rules were largely thrown out the window for the past 3 years or so.) SnowFire (talk) 02:54, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Here is the baseline "methodology" for the purposes of this cleanup/gutting: the article is from a RS, and is explicitly about "best games ever" or "best games of all time" or what have you. Anything beyond that can be determined via consensus and added back in once all the rotten entrails have been removed. Phediuk (talk) 03:12, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Sure, and that's good work, but after it's done, I think the Methodology section or some equivalent that talks about, well, what the hell this list is and where it came from, should come back. Maybe it will be short and sweet, who knows. SnowFire (talk) 03:22, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

@Phediuk: Also, I said it before over in the VG project, but I would be very much against removing all of the PC-specific sources, which you seem to be getting with the PCGamer removals. The result is going to be a heavily console-biased list I suspect if so, because the publications that covered console games & the publications that covered computer games were historically separate, but for better or for worse, Wikipedia treats "video games" as encompassing both. I suspect that even if some of those lists CLAIM to cover games in general, they're really covering just consoles. On the other side, I also don't agree with removing EGM 2006, which is one of the absolute best sources - made by editors, etc. "their time" vs. "all time" is a silly and meaningless distinction if that's the complaint; it's clearly a general "best of" list. It is console-specific, but that's okay as long as it's counterbalanced with some PC-specific lists. SnowFire (talk) 03:39, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Maybe this is off topic, but how do we handle games that gets called the best of its genre? Divinity: Original Sin 2 has multiple sources (I count at least five) that claim it to be either the best RPG ever made, or among the best of them. Or better yet, should reviews themselves be used as sources, in addition to retrospective list rankings? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:29, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
  • That's not useful. Well, if somebody wants to make a "best RPG ever" list, I guess it might be relevant for that, but that would be a different list, IMO. Otherwise, you get into "best retro game", "best sports game", etc. type issues as well. SnowFire (talk) 20:43, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Also, more generally. This list - at least currently - is based off of retrospectives on games, which is an important distinction IMO. So "reviews" are less interesting, because there are tons of games that get fantastic reviews that are immediately forgotten about, and occasional games that are considered classics that got mixed reviews at the time of release. Additionally, talk is cheap in reviews; I can claim in every single review I write in a year that a game is the best ever. If I'm forced to write up the top 100 games, I literally can't get everything; I have to pick and choose. So historical lists are much, much better than reviews IMO. To the extent reviews are taken into account, Metacritic can handle that for contemporary thoughts by critics. SnowFire (talk) 20:54, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
  • That's basically what I thought too, I just wanted to see if others were in agreement, thanks. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:01, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Page criteria

I'm willing to create a page criteria, if anyone wants me to. The only problem is that it might completely change the direction of this article. Any thoughts? JOEBRO64 22:48, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

  • The list needs a new direction, so I say go for it. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 23:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
  • If you are curious. The original criteria was "this is a list of random Wikipedia editor's favorite games." I thought that sucked, so I tried to do a somewhat objective version that threw lists into a spreadsheet, then generated "scores" based off their rank, which rewarded higher finishes over lower finishes. The key idea behind that version of the list was that editors weren't supposed to just add individual games because they found random sources that said so (like, uh, the utterly terrible source that were added by IP addresses that Phediuk caught... GameFAQs, Ranker lists, random webpages.). Rather, you could recommend a new source be added, and then the entire list would be recalculated based on that source, which would possibly promote some games and demote others. The number of sources would be small but exhaustive. (You can see some of the results at Talk:List_of_video_games_considered_the_best/Archive_1#Future_additions .) I still think that this approach has merit: pick a limited number of high quality sources, and generate results from this.
  • The problem with this approach is that it requires absolutely locking down changes and ruthlessly reverting anybody who tries to change it, since by definition the only thing that can/should be done is the addition or removal of sources. This gets tiring. (Maybe permanent semi-protection would help for this shot at the list?) SnowFire (talk) 21:47, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
  • A permanent semi-protection could be viable, as every future new entry to this list should be something agreed upon by more than one person before adding. The list was previously curated by whomever with no real oversight as to what got added (just look at the mass of unrelaible sources that were used). ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:01, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

A new criteria

As there are many games considered "good" or "better than average", we need to make sure we're truly focusing on the greatest games of all-time. For this reason, a criteria has been created to ensure that this list doesn't overflow with POV and other problems. Games are eligible for inclusion on this list if they have demonstrated notability (e.g. they have their own page), and have been called the best by numerous sources considered reliable for the coverage of video games. (The rest will be here soon.)

JOEBRO64 20:13, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

  • This is a bit too meta/Wikicentric to be in the article, if you ask me, as is. Not saying that any part of it is wrong however, just it reads more like a talk page post than anything encyclopedic. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:27, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
  • This isn't meant to be in the article; just on the top of the talk page. JOEBRO64 22:33, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Every game listed in every source on the page

Given that sources were added to this article in quite a non-transparent way--i.e., it's difficult to verify that it's actually a complete representation of what's on the lists themselves--I have decided to look at every source and compile their contents here.

EDIT: Done.

Empire2009

1. Super Mario World 2. Final Fantasy VII 3. World of Warcraft 4. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 5. Civilization 6. Street Fighter II (SNES) 7. Doom 8. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 9. Super Mario 64 10. Goldeneye 007 11. Planescape: Torment 12. Command & Conquer 13. Elite 14. Halo 15. Half-Life 2 16. Grand Theft Auto IV 17. Super Mario Kart 18. Gears of War 19. Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn 20. Metal Gear Solid 21. System Shock 2 22. Grand Theft Auto III 23. Halo 3 24. Super Mario Galaxy 25. Resident Evil 26. Bioshock 27. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 28. Tetris 29. Half-Life 30. Resident Evil 4 31. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 32. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots 33. Unreal Tournament 34. Resident Evil 2 35. Shadow of the Colossus 36. Sonic the Hedgehog 37. God of War 38. The Sims 39. Tomb Raider 40. Deus Ex 41. Eternal Darkness: Sanity'a Requiem 42. Shenmue 43. Sensible Soccer 44. Silent Hill 2 45. Gran Turismo 46. Ico 47. Metroid Prime 48. Portal 49. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 50. Virtua Fighter 4 51. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 52. Starcraft 53. Star Wars: TIE Fighter 54. Silent Hill 55. Call of Duty 56. LittleBigPlanet 57. Devil May Cry 58. Championship Manager (the series, collectively) 59. Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings 60. Grim Fandango 61. Gauntlet 62. Tekken 2 63. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 64. Pro Evolution Soccer (the series, collectively) 65. FIFA (the series, collectively) 66. Left 4 Dead 67. Chrono Trigger 68. Super Metroid 69. The Secret of Monkey Island 70. Guitar Hero 71. Quake 72. Diablo II 73. Final Fantasy VIII 74. Freespace 2 75. Rome: Total War 76. Donkey Kong Country 77. Day of the Tentacle 78. Company of Heroes 79. Aliens vs. Predator II 80. Super Smash Bros. Brawl 81. Simcity 2000 82. Black & White 83. Homeworld 84. Super C 85. Dungeon Keeper 2 86. IK+ 87. Lemmings 88. Thief II: The Metal Age 89. Counter-Strike 90. Daytona USA 91. Another World 92. Wipeout 2097 (Wipeout XL) 93. Dungeon Master 94. Bomberman (NES) 95. Alone in the Dark (1992) 96. Okami 97. Double Dragon (arcade) 98. Worms 2 99. Super Castlevania IV 100. Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe

G4

1. Super Mario Bros. 2. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 3. Bioshock 4. Asteroids 5. Tetris 6. The Legend of Zelda 7. Super Mario Bros. 3 8. Goldeneye 9. Shadow of the Colossus 10. World of Warcraft 11. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 12. Doom II 13. Portal 14. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 15. Donkey Kong 16. Half-Life 17. Starcraft 18. Ms. Pac-Man 19. Diablo II 20. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 21. Resident Evil 4 22. Panzer Dragoon Saga 23. Halo 3 24. Madden NFL 2005 25. Grand Theft Auto III 26. Ico 27. Chrono Trigger 28. Super Mario Kart 29. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 30. Super Street Fighter II Turbo 31. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 32. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! 33. Final Fantasy VII 34. Counter-Strike 35. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 36. Batman: Arkham City 37. Halo 38. Super Metroid 39. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 40. Space Invaders 41. Super Mario 64 42. Ghosts 'n Goblins 43. Quake III: Arena 44. Grand Theft Auto IV 45. Metal Gear Solid 46. Red Dead Redemption 47. Myst 48. Tecmo Bowl 49. Angry Birds 50. Sonic The Hedgehog 51. Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando 52. Rock Band 3 53. Deus Ex 54. Gauntlet 55. Kingdom Hearts 56. Super Street Fighter IV 57. Pokemon Red and Blue 58. Ultimata Online 59. Day of the Tentacle 60. Contra 61. God Of War III 62. Civilization II 63. Wolfenstein 3D 64. NBA Jam 65. Unreal Tournament 66. Assassin's Creed II 67. Minecraft 68. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 69. Double Dragon 70. Star Wars (arcade) 71. Wing Commander II 72. Mortal Kombat 73. Mega Man 2 74. Star Fox 64 75. Fallout 3 76. Blades Of Steel 77. Excitebike 78. Spy Hunter 79. Psychonauts 80. Gears Of War 3 81. Resident Evil 82. Super Smash Bros. Melee 83. Ninja Gaiden 84. Wii Sports 85. Silent Hill 2 86. Outrun 87. Mass Effect 2 88. Double Dribble 89. Left 4 Dead 90. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn 91. The Sims 92. Galaga 93. Star Wars: TIE Fighter 94. Braid 95. Burgertime 96. Guitar Hero II 97. NBA 2K11 98. Pitfall! 99. Words with Friends 100. Pong

GamingBolt

1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 2. Super Mario Bros. 3 3. Pong 4. Super Mario Bros. 5. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 6. Half-Life 7. Pitfall! 8. Prince of Persia (1989) 9. Pac-Man 10. Doom 11. Half-Life 2 12. Chrono Trigger 13. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 14. Ultima I 15. Contra 16. Donkey Kong 17. Wolfenstein 3D 18. Grim Fandango 19. System Shock 2 20. Quake 21. Earthbound 22. Double Dragon (arcade) 23. Secret of Mana 24. Mega Man (classiv series, collectively) 25. Street Fighter II 26. Soul Calibur 27. Mario Kart 64 28. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island 29. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 30. Simcity (the series, collectively) 31. Diablo II 32. Starcraft 33. Age of Empires 34. Metal Gear Solid 35. Mega Man X 36. Ms. Pac-Man 37. Tomb Raider (1996) 38. Resident Evil 2 39. Grand Theft Auto (1997) 40. Final Fantasy VII 41. Thief: The Dark Project 42. Portal 2 43. Resident Evil 4 44. Star Wars: X-Wing 45. Halo 46. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn 47. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 48. Icewind Dale 49. Planescape: Torment 50. Star Fox 64 51. Counter-Strike 52. X-COM: UFO Defense 53. Civilization II 54. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 55. Silent Hill 2 56. Dreamfall: The Longest Journey 57. Fallout 58. Goldeneye (1997) 59. Shadow of the Colossus 60. Super Mario 64 61. The Secret of Monkey Island 62. Batman: Arkham City 63. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 64. God of War II 65. Mass Effect 2 66. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 67. Tekken 3 68. Bioshock 69. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 70. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 71. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 72. God of War 73. Call of Duty 2 74. Gears of War 75. Resident Evil Code: Veronica 76. Clive Barker's Undying 77. Sanitarium 78. Halo: Reach 79. Braid 80. Star Wars: Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight 81. Skies of Arcadia 82. Assassin's Creed II 83. Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2 84. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory 85. Mass Effect 3 86. Star Wars: Battlefront II 87. Metroid Prime 88. Red Dead Redemption 89. Batman: Arkham Asylum 90. The Walking Dead (2012) 91. Dragon Age: Origins 92. Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven 93. Tomb Raider (2013) 94. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 95. Dishonored 96. Hitman 2: Silent Assassin 97. Far Cry 3 98. Saints Row the Third 99. Grandia II 100. Devil My Cry 3: Dante's Awakening

GI2009

1. The Legend of Zelda 2. Super Mario Bros. 3. Tetris 4. Grand Theft Auto III 5. Half-Life 2 6. Doom 7. Metroid 8. Final Fantasy VI 9. Super Mario Bros. 3 10. Ms. Pac-Man 11. World of Warcraft 12. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 13. Super Mario 64 14. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 15. Final Fantasy VII 16. Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out!! 17. Chrono Trigger 18. Resident Evil 4 19. Metal Gear Solid 20. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 21. Super Metroid 22. Contra (NES) 23. Galaga 24. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 25. Street Fighter II 26. God of War 27. BioShock 28. Diablo II 29. Half-Life 30. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 31. Tecmo Super Bowl 32. Goldeneye 33. Super Mario Kart 34. Sonic the Hedgehog 35. Starcraft 36. Civilization 37. Simcity 38. Mega Man 2 39. Halo 40. Gran Turismo 41. Resident Evil 2 42. Pokemon Red and Blue 43. Final Fantasy X 44. Everquest 45. Final Fantasy Tactics 46. Grand Theft Auto IV 47. Super Mario World 48. Deus Ex 49. Guitar Hero 50. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 51. Super Mario Galaxy 52. Pac-Man 53. Battlefield 2 54. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 55. Ico 56. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 57. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 2 58. Mass Effect 59. Adventure (Atari 2600) 60. Arkanoid 61. The Legend of Zelda: Link’s Awakening 62. Star Wars: X-Wing 63. The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask 64. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 65. Fallout 3 66. Zork 67. Soul Calibur 68. Double Dragon (arcade) 69. Dr. Mario 70. The Sims 71. Age of Empires 72. Mortal Kombat II 73. Rock Band 2 74. Tomb Raider 75. Super Bomberman 76. Mario’s Picross 77. Ninja Gaiden (NES) 78. Command & Conquer 79. Kingdom Hearts 80. Final Fantasy IV 81. Super Mario Bros. 2 (1988) 82. Left 4 Dead 83. Okami 84. Shadow of the Colossus 85. Metroid Prime 86. Super Smash Bros. Melee 87. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 88. Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn 89. God of War II 90. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 91. Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal 92. Medal of Honor: Allied Assault 93. Skies of Arcadia 94. The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker 95. Silent Hill 2 96. Counter-Strike 97. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 98. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 99. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 100. Portal 101. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind 102. Heroes of Might & Magic III 103. Donkey Kong 104. Batman: Arkham Asylum 105. System Shock 2 106. Resident Evil 107. Gears of War 108. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots 109. Crash Bandicoot: Warped 110. Halo 2 111. Tetris Attack 112. Final Fantasy XII 113. Earthbound 114. Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri 115. Command & Conquer: Red Alert 116. Advance Wars 117. Fallout 118. Team Fortress 2 119. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory 120. Mega Man X 121. Lemmings 122. Panzer Dragoon Saga 123. NHL ’94 124. Warlords 125. Shadowrun (SNES) 126. Twisted Metal 2 127. Oddworld: Abe’s Oddysee 128. Metroid Fusion 129. Homeworld 130. Kingdom Hearts II 131. Pilotwings 132. Quake II 133. Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II 134. Borderlands 135. Final Fight 136. Star Fox 137. Madden NFL ’99 138. Call of Duty 2 139. Wolfenstein 3D 140. Diablo 141. Civilization IV 142. Day of the Tentacle 143. Assassin’s Creed 144. Burnout 3: Takedown 145. Unreal Tournament 2004 146. Power Stone 2 147. Super Castlevania IV 148. Super Mario RPG 149. Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos 150. Actraiser 151. Fable 152. Xenosaga Episode I: Der Wille zur Macht 153. Asteroids 154. LittleBigPlanet 155. Crackdown 156. Gauntlet 157. Devil May Cry 158. Pong 159. Battlefield 1942 160. Thief: The Dark Project 161. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 162. Far Cry 163. Robotron 164. X-COM: UFO Defense 165. Peggle 166. King’s Quest VI 167. Doom II 168. Tempest 2000 169. Braid 170. Ridge Racer 171. Bully 172. Ikaruga 173. Lode Runner 174. Gunstar Heroes 175. Dig Dug 176. Castlevania 177. Tekken 3 178. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney 179. NBA Jam: Tournament Edition 180. Max Payne 181. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 182. Samurai Shodown 183. NFL 2K5 184. Vagrant Story 185. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island 186. Marble Madness 187. Infamous 188. Planescape: Torment 189. Kid Icarus 190. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay 191. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 192. Eternal Darkness: Sanity’s Requiem 193. Jak 3 194. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 195. Ultima I 196. Call of Duty 197. NHL 09 198. Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow 199. Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together 200. Beyond Good and Evil

IGN 2003

1. Super Mario Bros. 2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3. Super Metroid 4. Tetris 5. Super Mario 64 6. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 7. Starcraft 8. X-COM: UFO Defense 9. Final Fantasy IV 10. Street Fighter II 11. Star Wars: TIE Fighter 12. Chrono Trigger 13. Ms. Pac-Man 14. Super Mario Kart 15. Civilization II 16. NHL '94 17. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 18. Grand Theft Auto III 19. Goldeneye 20. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 21. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 22. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! 23. Metroid Prime 24. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island 25. Prince of Persia 26. Tecmo Bowl 27. Sid Meier's Pirates! 28. Super Mario World 29. Star Wars (arcade) 30. Metal Gear Solid 31. Gauntlet 32. Half-Life 33. Wave Race 64 34. Dune II 35. Thief II: The Metal Age 36. Super Smash Bros. Melee 37. Madden NFL '96 38. Soul Calibur 39. Halo 40. Deus Ex 41. Battlefield 1942 42. NBA Jam 43. Final Fantasy VI 44. Doom 45. Alone in the Dark 46. Conker's Bad Fur Day 47. Simcity 2000 48. Command & Conquer: Red Alert 49. Track & Field 50. Archon 51. Contra 52. Ultima VII: The Black Gate 53. Star Control II 54. Gunstar Heroes 55. Bionic Commando (NES) 56. Return Fire 57. Star Fox 58. Resident Evil 2 59. Advance Wars 60. Mechwarrior 2 61. Tobal 2 62. Herzog Zwei 63. Baldur's Gate 64. Shining Force II 65. Crimson Skies 66. Master of Magic 67. Sam & Max Hit the Road 68. Virtua Fighter 2 69. Ghosts 'n Goblins 70. System Shock 2 71. NCAA Football 2003 72. Pokemon Red and Blue 73. Galaga 74. Pilotwings 75. Saturn Bomberman 76. Rayman 2: The Great Escape 77. Baseball Stars 78. Secret of Mana 79. Homeworld 80. Excitebike 81. Discs of Tron 82. Battlezone (1980) 83. Counter-Strike 84. Kid Icarus 85. Final Fantasy X 86. Tomb Raider 87. Wing Commander II 88. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 89. Virtua Tennis 90. Sonic the Hedgehog 91. F-Zero 92. Aces of the Pacific 93. Simcity 94. Wolfenstein 3D 95. Adventure (Atari 2600) 96. Golden Axe 97. Phantasy Star II 98. Master of Orion 99. Ultima Underworld 100. Pitfall!

IGN 2005

1. Super Mario Bros. 2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3. Tetris 4. Civilization II 5. Super Mario 64 6. Sid Meier's Pirates! (1987) 7. Starcraft 8. Street Fighter II 9. Star Wars: TIE Fighter 10. Super Metroid 11. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 12. X-COM: UFO Defense 13. Chrono Trigger 14. Rome: Total War 15. Super Mario Kart 16. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 17. Star Control 2 18. Ico 19. Metal Gear Solid 20. Ms. Pac-Man 21. Deus Ex 22. Half-Life 23. Super Mario Bros. 3 24. Tecmo Super Bowl 25. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn 26. Final Fantasy IV 27. Burnout 3: Takedown 28. Half-Life 2 29. Goldeneye 30. Halo 31. Simcity 2000 32. Resident Evil 4 33. God of War 34. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 35. Dune II 36. Command & Conquer: Red Alert 37. Wave Race 64 38. Madden NFL 2004 39. Doom 40. Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution 41. System Shock 2 42. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 43. Soul Calibur 44. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island 45. Battlefield 1942 46. Super Mario World 47. NHL '94 48. Secret of Mana 49. Grim Fandango 50. Wing Commander II 51. Grand Theft Auto III 52. Metroid Prime 53. Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings 54. Panzer Dragoon Saga 55. Fallout 56. Final Fantasy VI 57. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! 58. Super Smash Bros. Melee 59. Bionic Commando (NES) 60. Day of the Tentacle 61. Sam & Max Hit the Road 62. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 63. Sonic the Hedgehog 64. Advance Wars 65. Mechwarrior 2 66. Homeworld 67. Rayman 2: The Great Escape 68. Starsiege: Tribes 69. Lakers vs. Celtics and the NBA Playoffs 70. Pokemon Red and Blue 71. Counter-Strike 72. Galaga 73. Return Fire 74. Syndicate 75. Crimson Skies 76. Tetris Attack 77. Archon 78. Star Wars (arcade) 79. Shining Force II 80. Baseball Stars 81. Freedom Force 82. Gunstar Heroes 83. Contra (NES) 84. Ultima VII: The Black Gate 85. Prince of Persia 86. Final Fantasy X 87. Thief II: The Metal Age 88. Final Fantasy VII 89. Alone in the Dark 90. Master of Orion 91. Virtua Tennis 92. Dragon Warrior 93. Quake II 94. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 95. Herzog Zwei 96. Mafia: City of Lost Heaven 97. F-Zero 98. Battletoads 99. Ultima Underworld 100. River City Ransom

IGN 2007

1. Super Mario Bros. 2. Tetris 3. Civilization II 4. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 5. Super Mario 64 6. Half-Life 2 7. Super Metroid 8. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 9. Final Fantasy VI 10. Resident Evil 4 11. Starcraft 12. Star Wars: TIE Fighter 13. Ms. Pac-Man 14. Sid Meier's Pirates! (1987) 15. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 16. Shadow of the Colossus 17. Super Mario World 18. Chrono Trigger 19. Doom 20. Metal Gear Solid 21. X-COM: UFO Defense 22. System Shock 2 23. Super Mario Kart 24. Street Fighter II: The World Warrior 25. Simcity 2000 26. Half-Life 27. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 28. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 29. Dragon Warrior 30. Metroid Prime 31. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 32. Halo 33. Fallout 34. Deus Ex 35. Grand Theft Auto III 36. Grim Fandango 37. Pokemon Red and Blue 38. Final Fantasy Tactics 39. Super Mario Bros. 3 40. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 41. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island 42. The Legend of Zelda 43. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn 44. Panzer Dragoon Saga 45. Battlefield 1942 46. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 47. God of War 48. Shining Force II 49. Guitar Hero II 50. Super Smash Bros. 51. Sonic the Hedgehog 52. Dune II 53. Rome: Total War 54. Contra 55. Final Fantasy IV 56. NHL '94 57. Ico 58. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! 59. Command & Conquer: Red Alert 60. Prince of Persia 61. Phantasy Star IV 62. Wolfenstein 3D 63. Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution 64. Total Annihilation 65. Thief II: The Metal Age 66. Burnout 3: Takedown 67. Mega Man 2 68. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 69. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 70. Tecmo Bowl 71. Planescape: Torment 72. Mechwarrior 2 73. Resident Evil (1996) 74. Sam & Max Hit the Road 75. Goldeneye 76. Final Fantasy VII 77. Star Fox 78. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening 79. Secret of Mana 80. Ninja Gaiden Black 81. Space Invaders 82. Syndicate 83. World of Warcraft 84. Day of the Tentacle 85. Mafia: City of Lost Heaven 86. Perfect Dark 87. Advance Wars 88. Star Wars (arcade) 89. Alone in the Dark 90. Okami 91. Pilotwings 92. Wipeout 3 93. Ultima VII: The Black Gate 94. Nights into Dreams... 95. Bionic Commando (NES) 96. Wave Race 64 97. Silent Hill 2 98. Quake II 99. Rayman 2: The Great Escape 100. Archon

Stuff.tv

1. The Last of Us 2. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt 3. Half-Life 2 4. Super Mario 64 5. Tetris 6. Portal 2 7. Doom (1993) 8. Grand Theft Auto V 9. Minecraft 10. Inside 11. Super Mario World 12. Final Fantasy VII 13. Red Dead Redemption 14. Mass Effect 2 15. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 16. Bioshock 17. Halo 18. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 19. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 20. Pro Evolution Soccer 5 21. Tomb Raider (1996) 22. Super Mario Kart 23. Life is Strange 24. NBA Jame 25. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 26. Burnout 3: Takedown 27. The Secret of Monkey Island 28. Resident Evil 4 29. Bloodborne 30. Fallout 3 31. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 32. Ico 33. Goldeneye (1997) 34. Sensible World of Soccer 35. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 36. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 37. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 38. Metroid Prime 39. Super Mario Galaxy 2 40. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 41. Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings 42. Sonic the Hedgehog 43. Silent Hill 2 44. Pokemon Red and Blue 45. Metal Gear Solid 46. Super Smash Bros. Melee 47. Deus Ex 48. Civilization II 49. Wipeout 50. The Sims

TimeTop50

1. Tetris 2. Super Mario 64 3. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 4. Doom 5. Ms. Pac-Man 6. Minecraft 7. The Legend of Zelda 8. Super Mario Bros. 9. The Oregon Trail 10. World of Warcraft 11. Civilization IV 12. Final Fantasy VI 13. Simcity 2000 14. Quake 15. Counter-Strike 16. Grand Theft Auto III 17. Half-Life 2 18. Rise of the Tomb Raider 19. Space Invaders 20. Zork 21. Diablo II 22. Goldeneye (1997) 23. Microsoft Flight Simulator X 24. Final Fantasy VII 25. Halo 26. Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty 27. Mortal Kombat (1992) 28. Donkey Kong 29. Myst 30. Pokemon Red and Blue 31. The Sims 32. Wolfenstein 3D 33. Super Mario Kart 34. Red Dead Redemption 35. Galaga 36. Fallout 3 37. Braid 38. Portal 2 39. Castlevania 40. Pong 41. ESPN NFL 2K5 42. Bioshock 43. Call of Duty 2 44. Super Smash Bros. 45. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 46. Resident Evil 4 47. Guitar Hero 48. Angry Birds 49. Dota 2 50. King's Quest III

HG101

(No particular order) Joust Mappy Bubble Bobble Geometry Wars 3 Pac-Man Championship Edition DX TxK Super Mario Bros. 3 Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze Sonic CD Klonoa: Door to Phantomile Super Meat Boy Shinobi (arcade) Strider (arcade) Ninja Gaiden (NES) Bionic Commando Rearmed Gimmick! Castlevania: Rondo of Blood Demon's Crest Mega Man X Volgarr the Viking Shovel Knight Prince of Persia Another World Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap Super Metroid Castlevania: Symphony of the Night Cave Story Rogue Legacy Dust: An Elysian Tail Legacy of the Wizard The Guardian Legend Zelda II: The Adventure of Link The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening Terranigma Seiken Densetsu 3 The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask Ys: The Oath in Felghana Mega Man Legends Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver Okami Shadow of the Collosus Nier Bloodborne Shenmue II Yakuza 4 Red Dead Redemption Contra: Shattered Soldier Turrican II Gunstar Heroes Shock Troopers Metal Slug 3 Hotline Miami Fantasy Zone IIDX Gradius Gaiden Sexy Parodius MUSHA R-Type Delta Batsugun Battle Garegga Ikaruga Mushihime-sama Futari Space Harrier Sin & Punishment: Star Successor Vampire Savior Street Fighter Alpha 3 Street Fighter III: Third Strike The Last Blade 2 Garou: Mark of the Wolves The King of Fighters 2002 Ultimate Match Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus R Super Smash Bros. Melee Soul Calibur II Virtua Fighter 5 Streets of Rage 2 Violent Storm Alien vs. Predator (arcade) Double Dragon Advance Guardian Heroes Nights into Dreams... Crash Bandicoot 3 Psychonauts Super Mario Galaxy 2 Ninja Gaiden Black Otogi 2: Immortal Warriors God Hand Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance Bayonetta 2 A Mind Forever Voyaging Monkey Island II: LeChuck's Revenge Day of the Tentacle Grim Fandango Space Quest IV: Roger Wilco and the Time Rippers Quest for Glory IV Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars The Last Express Dreamfall: The Longest Journey Cosmology of Kyoto Snatcher Ghost Trick Steins;Gate 999: Nine Persons, Nine Hours, Nine Doors Danganronpa 2 Silent Hill Amnesia: The Dark Descent Ultima VII: The Black Gate Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant Realms of Arkania 2: Star Trail Diablo II Fallout 2 Planescape: Torment Arcanum Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords The Witcher III: Wild Hunt Legend of Grimrock II Star Control 2 X-COM: UFO Defense Jagged Alliance 2 Final Fantasy V Final Fantasy VI Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride Chrono Trigger Earthbound Suikoden II Phantasy Star IV Panzer Dragoon Saga Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne Persona 4 Golden Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter The World Ends With You Xenoblade Chronicles Etrian Odyssey III Barkley Shut Up and Jam Gaiden Final Fantasy Tactics Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance Advance Wars: Days of Ruin Front Mission 5 Valkyria Chronicles Dragon Force Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2 Starcraft Total Annihilation Homeworld Company of Heroes Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings Rome: Total War Heroes of Might & Magic III Crusader Kings II Civilization IV Alpha Centauri Sid Meier's Pirates! (1987) SimCity 4 Doom Blood Star Wars: Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight No One Lives Forever Perfect Dark Half-Life 2 FEAR SWAT 4 Crysis Bulletstorm System Shock 2 Deus Ex Thief II: The Metal Age Metroid Prime The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl Max Payne 2 Resident Evil 4 Killer7 Freedom Fighters The Last of Us Mirror's Edge Portal 2 Star Wars: TIE Fighter Freespace 2 Metal Gear Solid 3 Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory Hitman: Blood Money Burnout 3: Takedown OutRun 2006 Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed F-Zero X Punch-Out!! SSX3 Jet Set Radio Saturn Bomberman Worms Armageddon Puyo Puyo 2 Twinkle Star Sprites Windjammers Lemmings Elite Beat Agents Space Channel 5 Part 2 Devil's Crush Typing of the Dead

NextGen1999

1. The Legend of Zelda (the series, collectively) 2. Tetris 3. Mario (the series, collectively) 4. Civilization (1 and 2, joint entry) 5. Quake II 6. Metroid (the series, collectively) 7. Super Mario Kart 8. Virtua Fighter (the series, collectively) 9. Street Fighter II (all versions, collectively0 10. Goldeneye 11. Ridge Racer (the series, collectively) 12. Tekken (the series, collectively) 13. Resident Evil (the series, collectively) 14. Half-Life 15. Gran Turismo 16. Final Fantasy (the series, collectively) 17. Galaga 18. Ultima (the series, collectively) 19. Sega Rally 20. Wave Race 64 21. Robotron 22. Tomb Raider 23. Defender 24. Star Wars (arcade) 25. Doom (the series, collectively) 26. Grim Fandango 27. Metal Gear Solid 28. Star Wars: Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight 29. Asteroids 30. Super Bomberman 2 31. Heroes of Might & Magic (the series, collectively) 32. Warcraft/Starcraft (joint entry; Warcraft also covers both 1 and 2) 33. NFL Blitz '99 34. Pong 35. The Lurking Horror 36. Parappa the Rapper 37. X-COM: UFO Defense 38. Battlezone (1998) 39. Herzog Zwei 40. NHL 99 41. Ms. Pac-Man 42. Sonic the Hedgehog (1, 2, and 3, collectively) 43. NFL Gameday (the series, collectively) 44. Populous 45. Sam & Max Hit the Road 46. Star Control 2 47. Grand Prix Legends 48. Zork (the series, collectively) 49. Total Annihilation 50. International Superstar Soccer '98

NextGen1996

1. Super Mario 64 2. Tetris 3. Super Bomberman 2 4. Civilization (the series, collectively) 5. Mario (the series, collectively) 6. Virtua Fighter 2 7. Street Fighter II (all versions, collectively) 8. Lemmings 9. Quake 10. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 11. Virtua Racing 12. Ms. Pac-Man 13. Defender 14. Elite 15. Marble Madness 16. Populous (the series, collectively) 17. Final Fantasy (the series, collectively) 18. Micro Machines 19. Doom (the series, collectively) 20. Sonic the Hedgehog (the series, collectively) 21. Daytona USA 22. Tekken 2 23. Star Wars: X-Wing / Star Wars: TIE Fighter (joint entry) 24. The Lurking Horror 25. Nights into Dreams... 26. X-COM: UFO Defense 27. Sam & Max Hit the Road 28. NFL Gameday 29. Syndicate 30. Madden NFL (the series, collectively) 31. Herzog Zwei 32. Wipeout 2097 (Wipeout XL) 33. Simcity 2000 34. Nobunaga's Ambition (the series, collecively) 35. Duke Nukem 3D 36. Rescue Raiders 37. Super Mario Kart 38. Zork (the series, collectively) 39. Asteroids 40. NHL Powerplay 41. "Snake Game" (all variations on Snake, collectively) 42. EF2000 43. Rolling Thunder 44. Spectre VR 45. Outrun 46. Formula One Grand Prix 2 47. Worldwide Soccer 2 48. World Series Baseball 49. Command & Conquer 50. Donkey Kong 51. Panzer General 52. Spaceward Ho! 53. The Sentinel 54. Mechwarrior 2 55. Ultima (the series, collectively) 56. Dragon Warrior (the series, collectively) 57. Sega Rally 58. Star Wars (arcade) 59. Super Sprint 60. Wizardry (the series, collectively) 61. Ikari Warriors 62. The Bard's Tale (the series, collectively) 63. Robotron 64. The Legend of Zelda (the series, collectively) 65. Bump 'n' Jump 66. A Mind Forever Voyaging 67. F/A-18 Hornet 2.0 68. Pong 69. Links 70. Metroid (the series, collectively) 71. FIFA Soccer (1994) 72. Phantasy Star (the series, collectively) 73. AH64-D Longbow 74. Tempest 75. Balance of Power 76. NBA Live '96 77. Shining Force (the series, collectively) 78. Track & Field (the series, collectively) 79. King's Quest (the series, collectively) 80. Falcon Gold 81. River Raid 82. Virtua Cop (the series, collectively) 83. Joust 84. Centipede 85. Leisure Suit Larry 86. Jumping Flash! 87. Discs of Tron 88. Knight Lore 89. Summer Games, Winter Games, and California Games (collectively) 90. Xevious 91. Resident Evil 92. Hard Hat Mack 93. Burning Force 94. Rave Racer 95. Strike (the series, collectively) 96. Galaga 97. Space Invaders 98. R-Type 99. NBA Jam (the series, collectively) 100. Trinity

Time

(Chronological order)

The Oregon Trail Hunt the Wumpus Pong Breakout Space Invaders Adventure (Atari 2600) Asteroids Battlezone (1980) Defender Pac-Man Zork Castle Wolfenstein Centipede Donkey Kong Frogger Galaga Tempest Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord Joust Pitfall! King's Quest Lode Runner M.U.L.E. Paperboy Tetris Super Mario Bros Ultima IV Castlevania The Legend of Zelda Metroid Outrun Contra Leisure Suit Larry Mega Man Nethack Punch-Out!! Tecmo Bowl Prince of Persia (1989) Solitaire (Windows) Wing Commander Civilization Sonic the Hedgehog Street Fighter II Dune II Mortal Kombat (1992) Doom Myst NBA Jam Madden NFL 95 Marathon Simcity 2000 Chrono Trigger Quake Resident Evil (1996) Super Mario 64 Tomb Raider Final Fantasy VII Goldeneye (1997) Myth: The Fallen Lords Ultima Online Final Fantasy Tactics Grim Fandango Metal Gear Solid Starcraft Thief: The Dark Project Everquest Silent Hill Diablo II Deus Ex The Sims Animal Crossing Grand Theft Auto III Halo: Combat Evolved Ico Rez Counter-Strike Splinter Cell Metroid Prime Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Cave Story Half-Life 2 Katamari Damacy World of Warcraft Guitar Hero Shadow of the Colossus The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Gears of War Okami Wii Sports Bioshock Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Desktop Tower Defense Portal Rock Band Braid Angry Birds Demon's Souls Flower Batman: Arkham City Mass Effect 3

IGN2015

01. Super Mario Bros. 3 02. The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past 03. Doom 04. Super Mario Bros. 05. Portal 2 06. Half-Life 2 07. Super Metroid 08. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 09. Halo 2 10. Tetris 11. Super Mario 64 12. Sid Meier's Pirates! (1987) 13. Chrono Trigger 14. Super Mario World 15. Minecraft 16. Grand Theft Auto V 17. Portal 18. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn 19. Deus Ex 20. Street Fighter II 21. Super Mario Galaxy 22. Halo 23. Star Wars: TIE Fighter 24. Civilization IV 25. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 26. Half-Life 27. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 28. Final Fantasy VI 29. Red Dead Redemption 30. The Legend of Zelda 31. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 32. Rock Band 33. Battlefield 1942 34. Shadow of the Colossus 35. World of Warcraft 36. Bioshock 37. Silent Hill 2 38. Mass Effect 39. Journey 40. Dark Souls 41. Metal Gear Solid 42. Counter-Strike 43. Resident Evil 4 44. Banjo-Kazooie 45. Diablo II 46. Metroid Prime 47. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 48. The Last of Us 49. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 50. Dota 2 51. Mass Effect 2 52. Pokemon Yellow 53. Ms. Pac-Man 54. Thief II: The Metal Age 55. Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast 56. StarCraft 57. Mechwarrior 2 58. Team Fortress 2 59. Persona 4 Golden 60. Donkey Kong 61. Grim Fandango 62. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge 63. Super Smash Bros. Melee 64. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 65. Burnout 3: Takedown 66. Goldeneye (1997) 67. Final Fantasy Tactics 68. Suikoden 2 69. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 70. Mega Man 2 71. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield 72. Spelunky 73. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 74. League of Legends 75. EarthBound 76. Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening 77. Zork 78. Fallout 3 79. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 80. Final Fantasy VII 81. The Secret of Monkey Island 82. Resident Evil 2 83. Fallout 2 84. Contra 85. X-COM: UFO Defense 86. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! 87. SimCity 2000 88. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 89. The Oregon Trail 90. System Shock 2 91. Batman: Arkham Asylum 92. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island 93. Ico 94. Donkey Kong (Game Boy) 95. Super Mario Galaxy 2 96. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 97. Galaga 98. Perfect Dark 99. Advance Wars 100. The Walking Dead (2012)

GamesRadar

1. Dark Souls 2. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 3. Resident Evil 4 4. Super Mario Galaxy 2 5. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 6. Red Dead Redemption 7. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 8. Half-Life 2 9. Grand Theft Auto V 10. Shadow of the Colossus 11. Metroid Prime 12. Halo: Combat Evolved 13. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 14. The Last of Us 15. Mass Effect 2 16. Bioshock 17. Super Mario World 18. Mario Kart 7 19. The Legend of Zelda; A Link to the Past 20. Journey 21. Silent Hill 2 22. Final Fantasy X 23. Tetris 24. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 25. Minecraft 26. Final Fantasy VI 27. Street Fighter IV 28. Super Metroid 29. Deus Ex 30. Bayonetta 31. Portal 2 32. Chrono Trigger 33. The Walking Dead (2012) 34. Batman: Arkham Asylum 35. Pokemon X and Y 36. Fallout 3 37. Okami 38. Animal Crossing: New Leaf 39. Ico 40. Xenoblade Chronicles 41. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island 42. FIFA 15 43. Destiny 44. The Secret of Monkey Island 45. Secret of Mana 46. Fire Emblem: Awakening 47. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 48. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U 49. Ghost Trick 50. World of Warcraft 51. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 52. Day of the Tentacle 53. Persona 4 54. Braid 55. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney 56. Left 4 Dead 57. Guild Wars 2 58. Banjo-Kazooie 59. Tekken 3 60. Grim Fandango 61. Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons 62. Spelunky 63. F-Zero GX 64. Towerfall 65. SSX3 66. To the Moon 67. Thief II: The Metal Age 68. Worms Armageddon 69. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag 70. XCOM: Enemy Within 71. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 72. Fable II 73. Ikaruga 74. Earthbound 75. Civilization V 76. Dead Space 77. Super Monkey Ball 78. Dragon Age: Inquisition 79. Tomb Raider (2013) 80. Hearthstone 81. Quake III: Arena 82. Max Payne 83. Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast 84. Hotline Miami 85. Rock Band 3 86. Nidhogg 87. Star Wars: Knights of the Old republic 88. Limbo 89. Plants vs. Zombies 90. Team Fortress 2 91. The Sims 2 92. Unreal Tournament 93. Dragon Quest IX 94. Timesplitters 2 95. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2 96. Hitman: Blood Money 97. Battlefield 3 98. Heavy Rain 99. Crazy Taxi 100. Alien Isolation

Yahoo

1. Tetris 2. Super Mario 64 3. Pokemon Red and Blue 4. Pro Evolution Soccer 4 5. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 6. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge 7. Super Mario Kart 8. Street Fighter II 9. Goldeneye 10. Elite 11. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 12. Super Mario World 13. Super Mario All-Stars 14. Warioware 15. The Sims 16. Doom 17. Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution 18. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 19. Grand Theft Auto III 20. Metal Gear Solid 21. Samba de Amigo 22. Football Manager (2004) 23. Ridge Racer 24. Samurai Shodown II 25. Pac-Man 26. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 27. Ultima Online 28. Deus Ex 29. Bust-a-Move 30. Super Castlevania IV 31. Everquest 32. Final Fantasy VII 33. World of Warcraft 34. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 35. Beatmania 36. Phantasy Star Online 37. Resident Evil 38. Wave Race 64 39. Half-Life 40. Gran Turismo 4 41. Halo 42. Madden NFL 2005 43. International Track & Field 44. Pilotwings 45. Pilotwings 64 46. Medal of Honor 47. Soul Calibur 48. 1080 Snowboarding 49. Dance Dance Revolution 50. Afterburner 51. Lemmings 52. Daytona USA 53. NBA Jam 54. Populous 55. Mortal Kombat II 56. Quake II 57. Simcity 58. Diablo 59. Tekken Tag Tournament 60. Super Tennis 61. Shenmue 62. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 63. Virtua Cop 64. Shinobi (arcade) 65. Tempest 2000 66. Wipeout 67. R-Type 68. Outrun 69. Sensible World of Soccer 70. Tomb Raider 71. Bubble Bobble 72. Virtua Racing 73. FIFA Soccer (1995) 74. Super Metroid 75. Burnout 2 76. Micro Machines 77. Rainbow Islands 78. Super Smash Bros. 79. Bomberman / Dynablaster (1991) 80. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! 81. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003 82. Time Crisis 83. Smash TV 84. Commando 85. The Hobbit (1982) 86. Donkey Kong 87. Gradius III 88. Colossal Cave Adventure 89. Defender 90. Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe 91. Double Dragon (arcade) 92. Pole Position 93. Galaxian 94. Asteroids 95. Frogger 96. Bomb Jack 97. Missile Command 98. Space Invaders 99. Pong 100. Hard Drivin'

PM2014

1. Bioshock 2. Super Mario World 3. Portal 2 4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 5. Halo 6. Street Fighter II 7. Mass Effect 2 8. Final Fantasy VII 9. Half-Life 2 10. Space Invaders 11. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 12. Doom 13. Metal Gear Solid 14. Super Mario Bros. 3 15. Resident Evil 4 16. Batman: Arkham City 17. Starcraft 18. Ms. Pac-Man 19. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 20. Sonic the Hedgehog 21. Civilization II 22. Goldeneye (1997) 23. Red Dead Redemption 24. Assassin's Creed II 25. The Last of Us 26. Chrono Trigger 27. Pokemon Red and Blue 28. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 29. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 30. World of Warcraft 31. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 32. Super Mario Kart 33. Tetris 34. Final Fantasy VI 35. Grand Theft Auto IV 36. Super Mario 64 37. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 38. Super Metroid 39. Shadow of the Colossus 40. Tekken 3 41. Mega Man 2 42. Silent Hill 2 43. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 44. Resident Evil 2 45. The Sims 3 46. Tecmo Super Bowl 47. Fallout 3 48. Left 4 Dead 2 49. Mortal Kombat II 50. X-COM: UFO Defense 51. NBA Jam 52. Star Fox 64 53. Dead Space 54. Super Mario RPG 55. Rock Band 3 56. Simcity 2000 57. Secret of Mana 58. Final Fantasy Tactics 59. Ghosts 'n Goblins 60. Minecraft 61. Grim Fandango 62. Xenogears 63. God of War 64. Super Smash Bros. Melee 65. Soul Calibur II 66. Persona 4 67. Donkey Kong Country 68. Journey 69. Gauntlet 70. Tomb Raider (1996) 71. Final Fantasy X 72. Galaga 73. Dark Souls 74. Earthworm Jim 75. System Shock 2 76. Spy Hunter 77. Star Wars: TIE Fighter 78. Double Dragon (arcade) 79. Dungeon Master 80. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! 81. Team Fortress 2 82. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 83. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 84. Zork 85. Limbo 86. Heavy Rain 87. Braid 88. Fire Emblem: Awakening 89. Shenmue II 90. Donkey Kong 91. Wii Sports 92. Forza Motorsport 4 93. Myst 94. Guitar Hero II 95. EVE Online 96. Super Meat Boy 97. Tempest 98. Gone Home 99. Towerfall 100. Hotline Miami

Slant2014

1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 2. Chrono Trigger 3. Super Metroid 4. Red Dead Redemption 5. Shadow of the Colossus 6. Half-Life 2 7. Portal 2 8. Braid 9. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 10. Bioshock 11. Goldeneye (1997) 12. Okami 13. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 14. Mass Effect 2 15. Silent Hill 2 16. Final Fantasy VII 17. Super Mario World 18. Portal 19. Super Mario RPG 20. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 21. Earthbound 22. Soul Calibur 23. Final Fantasy X 24. Ico 25. Resident Evil 4 26. Super Mario Bros. 27. Metroid Prime 28. Rez 29. Pokemon Red and Blue 30. The Walking Dead (2012) 31. Tetris 32. Batman: Arkham City 33. Super Smash Bros. Melee 34. Dance Dance Revolution 35. Power Stone 2 36. Rock Band 3 37. Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem 38. Banjo-Kazooie 39. Final Fantasy VI 40. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 41. Psychonauts 42. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 43. Super Mario 64 44. Katamari damacy 45. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island 46. Final Fantasy IX 47. Max Payne 48. Journey 49. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 50. Bayonetta 51. The World Ends with You 52. Chrono Cross 53. Final Fantasy Tactics 54. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots 55. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 56. Mass Effect 3 57. Xenogears 58. Conker's Bad Fur Day 59. Hotline Miami 60. Deus Ex: Human Revolution 61. You Don't Know Jack 62. Star Fox 64 63. Silent Hill 64. Donkey Kong Country 65. Vagrant Story 66. Beyond Good & Evil 67. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 68. Street Fighter II: Champion Edition 69. Amplitude 70. Grand Theft Auto V 71. Shenmue 72. Grand Theft Auto IV 73. Jet Set Radio 74. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 75. Grim Fandango 76. Viewtiful Joe 77. Myst 78. Kingdom Hearts II 79. Dragon Quest VIII 80. Snatcher 81. Rayman Legends 82. Halo 3 83. The Beatles: Rock Band 84. Grandia II 85. Child of Eden 86. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 87. God of War III 88. Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening 89. Valkyrie Profile 90. Saints Row the Third 91. Halo 92. Fallout 3 93. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time 94. Advance Wars: Dual Strike 95. Dead Space 96. Pokemon Gold and Silver 97. Wild Arms 98. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney 99. Phantasy Star IV 100. Worms Armageddon

FHM

1. The Legend of Zelda; Ocarina of Time 2. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 3. Super Mario 64 4. Fallout 3 5. Super Mario Kart 6. Goldeneye 7. Super Mario Galaxy 8. Star Wars: TIE Fighter 9. Splinter Cell 10. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening 11. Half-Life 2 12. Super Mario World 13. Portal 14. Guitar Hero 15. The Secret of Monkey Island 16. Wii Sports 17. Gears of War 18. Super Mario Bros. 3 19. Bioshock 20. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 21. Tetris 22. World of Warcraft 23. GRID 24. Sensible World of Soccer 25. Sam & Max Hit the Road 26. Streets of Rage 27. Project Gotham Racing 3 28. Pokemon Red and Blue 29. Pro Evolution Soccer 3 30. Simcity 2000 31. Shenmue 32. The Sims 33. Perfect Dark 34. Quake 35. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 36. Worms 37. Grand Theft Auto IV 38. Mortal Kombat 39. Jet Set Radio 40. Boom Blox 41. Theme Park 42. NBA Jam: Tournament Edition 43. Duke Nukem 3D 44. Lemmings 45. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 46. Super Mario Sunshine 47. Diddy Kong Racing 48. Mega Bomberman 49. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 50. Elite 51. Championship Manager 2 52. LittleBigPlanet 53. Road Rash II 54. Donkey Kong Country 55. Halo 56. Resident Evil 4 57. Team Fortress 2 58. Grand Prix 2 59. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 60. Donkey Kong 61. Counter-Strike 62. Earthworm Jim 2 63. Final Fantasy VII 64. Tony Hawk's Project 8 65. Sega Rally 66. Command & Conquer: Red Alert 67. God of War II 68. Okami 69. R-Type 70. Thief: The Dark Project 71. Mario Kart Wii 72. EVE Online 73. Sonic the Hedgehog 74. Gran Turismo 4 75. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2009 76. Super Metroid 77. Pac-Man 78. Burnout Revenge 79. Henry Hatsworth in the Puzzling Adventure 80. Jimmy White's Whirlwind Snooker 81. James Pond 2: Codename Robocod 82. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 83. Star Fox 64 84. Advance Wars 85. California Games 86. Wipeout 87. Alex Kidd in Miracle World 88. Fantasy World Dizzy 89. Viewtiful Joe 90. Golden Axe 91. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 92. Arkanoid 93. Turbo Outrun 94. Zool 95. Brian Lara International Cricket 2005 96. Unreal Tournament 2004 97. Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe 98. Shadow of the Colossus 99. Gauntlet 100. Pitfall!

Edge2017

1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 2. Dark Souls 3. Grand Theft Auto V 4. The Last of Us 5. Bloodborne 6. Half-Life 2 7. Tetris 8. Super Mario Galaxy 2 9. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 10. Resident Evil 4 11. Minecraft 12. Bayonetta 2 13. Portal 14. Super Mario 64 15. Red Dead Redemption 16. Super Mario World 17. Uncharted 4: A Thief's End 18. Rez Infinite 19. Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain 20. Ultra Street Fighter IV 21. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe 22. The Witness 23. Advance Wars 24. Horizon: Zero Dawn 25. Demon's Souls 26. Super Metroid 27. Ico 28. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 29. The Last Guardian 30. Rock Band 3 31. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 32. Splatoon 33. Dishonored 34. Kerbal Space Program 35. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 36. Destiny 37. Spelunky 38. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 39. Halo 3 40. Shadow of the Colossus 41. Inside 42. Fire Emblem Fates 43. Super Mario Maker 44. Vanquish 45. Dota 2 46. Dead Space 47. Journey 48. Super Mario 3D World 49. Overwatch 50. Fez 51. Nidhogg 52. Trials Fusion 53. Doom (2016) 54. Titanfall 2 55. Far Cry 4 56. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt 57. Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate 58. XCOM: Enemy Unknown 59. The Stanley Parable 60. Okami 61. Mass Effect 2 62. Persona 4 Golden 63. FTL: Advanced Edition 64. Puyo Puyo 65. Transistor 66. Batman: Arkham Knight 67. Earthbound 68. Towerfall: Ascension 69. Limbo 70. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 71. Hearthstone 72. Metroid Prime 73. Battlefield 4 74. Civilization IV 75. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive 76. Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast 77. Xenoblade Chronicles 78. Super Meat Boy 79. League of Legends 80. Tearaway 81. Puzzle & Dragons 82. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 83. Bioshock 84. Pac-Man Championship Edition 85. Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty 86. Bomberman 87. Elite: Dangerous 88. R-Type Final 89. The Sims 3 90. F-Zero GX 91. Bust-a-Move 92. Resogun 93. Animal Crossing: New Leaf 94. Katamari Damacy 95. Hyper Light Drifter 96. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 97. Final Fantasy XII 98. Super Monkey Ball 99. Her Story 100. Super Hexagon

Edge2015

1. Dark Souls 2. Grand Theft Auto V 3. The Last of Us 4. Bloodborne 5. Half-Life 2 6. Tetris 7. Super Mario Galaxy 2 8. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 9. Resident Evil 4 10. Minecraft 11. Bayonetta 2 12. Portal 13. Super Mario 64 14. Red Dead Redemption 15. Super Mario World 16. Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain 17. Ultra Street Fighter IV 18. Mario Kart 8 19. Advance Wars 20. Demon's Souls 21. Super Metroid 22. Ico 23. Uncharted 2 24. Drop7 25. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 26. Rock Band 3 27. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 28. Splatoon 29. Dishonored 30. Kerbal Space Program 31. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 32. Destiny 33. Spelunky 34. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 35. Halo 3 36. Shadow of the Colossus 37. Super Mario Maker 38. Vanquish 39. Dota 2 40. Dead Space 41. Fire Emblem: Awakening 42. Journey 43. Super Mario 3D World 44. Fez 45. Nidhogg 46. Trials Fusion 47. LittleBigPlanet 3 48. Far Cry 4 49. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt 50. Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate 51. XCOM: Enemy Unknown 52. The Stanley Parable 53. Okami 54. Mass Effect 2 55. Persona 4 Golden 56. FTL: Advanced Edition 57. Puyo Puyo 58. Transistor 59. Batman: Arkham Knight 60. Earthbound 61. Towerfall: Acension 62. Limbo 63. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 64. Hearthstone 65. Metroid Prime 66. Battlefield 4 67. Rez 68. Civilization IV 69. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive 70. Left 4 Dead 2 71. Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast 72. Titanfall 73. Xenoblade Chronicles 74. Super Meat Boy 75. League of Legends 76. Tearaway 77. Puzzle & Dragons 78. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 79. Bioshock 80. Pac-Man Championship Edition 81. Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty 82. Bomberman 83. Elite: Dangerous 84. R-Type Final 85. The Sims 3 86. F-Zero GX 87. Bust-a-Move 88. Resogun 89. Animal Crossing: New Leaf 90. Katamari Damacy 91. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 92. Final Fantasy XII 93. Super Monkey Ball 94. Her Story 95. Super Hexagon 96. Braid 97. Driveclub 98. Papers, Please 99. Spec Ops: The Line 100. Warioware

Phediuk (talk) 23:44, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Once these lists are complete, it will be pretty easy to drop them into Excel and run a pivot table which can provide the details of where each game appears. I can do this if no one else can. TarkusABtalk 00:11, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
The main potentially tripping point will be making sure that games have consistent names - e.g. Civilization V vs. Civilization 5 or StarCraft vs. StarCraft: Brood War. SnowFire (talk) 02:28, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes. That can be resolved by sorting the games in alphabetical order first and scanning for variations like that and typos. TarkusABtalk 02:33, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
Another concern. Are we all settled that these sources are all reliable and should be used in this list? For example, I think Popular Mechanics is a publication focused on automobiles and airplanes and rarely covers video games, FHM is a men's lifestyle mag. These aren't professional video game critics. TarkusABtalk 02:39, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
If they are generally considered a reliable source, then they should be usable for game stuff as well. As for unreliable sources, we shouldn't be using Nintendo Everything, which I've had to remove twice now. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:01, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
Alright, @TarkusAB:, I'm done. Phediuk (talk) 16:34, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
Roger that, I'll work some Excel magic... TarkusABtalk 16:50, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
Suggestion: can you try either using a Google Sheets doc, or else importing the Excel file to Google Sheets afterward, so it can easily be shared? (You can set it on View-only mode for others, of course, so that they can't overwrite your work, but it's still easy to clone that way.) SnowFire (talk) 17:45, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
The spreadsheet is viewable here: [2]
  • I am wondering how to file a few entires, and am requesting input from others. You can filter the blanks out on column H to see the questions I have.
  • You can filter to 'YES' on column I to see the entries whose name I changed to file under the same game.
  • There is a second sheet with a pivot table at the bottom. Entries for series games are not included on the pivot table.
  • There are some hidden columns if you are so inclined to see the programming on how I pulled the names.
TarkusABtalk 19:03, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
These have 3 or more inclusions and are missing from the list:
Missing as of: 01:25, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Alone in the Dark (1992) Angry Birds Animal Crossing: New Leaf Archon Battlefield 1942 Bayonetta 2 Bionic Commando (NES) Bomberman Bust-a-Move Demon's Souls Destiny Dishonored Dune II F-Zero GX Final Fantasy IV Final Fantasy XII Guitar Hero II Hearthstone Herzog Zwei League of Legends Mafia: City of Lost Heaven Mass Effect 3 Mechwarrior 2 NHL '94 Nidhogg Rayman 2: The Great Escape Robotron Sega Rally Shining Force II Sid Meier's Pirates! (1987) Star Fox Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty Super Monkey Ball Syndicate The Oregon Trail The Sims 3 Ultima VII: The Black Gate Wing Commander II

TarkusABtalk 01:25, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
I have deliberately excluded games that are not cited by at least 3 different publications; i.e., they can't just appear on three versions of IGN's list. Phediuk (talk) 01:35, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
Oh I see OK TarkusABtalk 01:36, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Did anyone look at the list towards the top of this page? Searching on archive.org, I found this edge list from 2007 https://web.archive.org/web/20150213002856/http://www.edge-online.com/features/edges-top-100-games-all-time/ TarkusABtalk 01:59, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

That list is based on reader votes and thus excluded. Phediuk (talk) 02:25, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

The list looks infinitely better and cleaner now. Fantastic work.

I will say as a nitpick: can we exclude ranks 101-200 from the GI2009 list? (I see it got used for a few of them, like TF2.) Including those is basically just giving that one list double weight compared to most of the lists. Also, would there be any complaints about left-aligning the text rather than center-aligning it? I dunno, I just prefer it that way, but it's wholly an aesthetic preference. SnowFire (talk) 17:29, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

    • I agree with the GI2009 list, neutral on the text alignment location (would have to see an example first). ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:45, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

2014 and 2016

I've looked at the list of video games that are considered the best and saw that there are no games from the years 2014 and 2016 that are on the list. Is there any reason why? Neverrainy (talk) 18:43, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Because none qualified?
More seriously, recent games are at an obvious disadvantage, in that older lists by definition can't possibly include them. So a 2016 game needs to run the table on the most recent sources to possibly be included. SnowFire (talk) 18:48, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
2014 was an awful year for games, so apparently none of them were included in any recent lists. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:02, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
2014 wasn't an awful year for games, but it sure was underwhelming. These are some of the sources that I've found that were the best games of 2014 - (The Guardian, IGN, Metacritic, The Telegraph, Forbes, The Verge, Time, USA Today
2016 on the other hand was a great year for games and these were the best of 2016 from the sources - Metacritic, The Telegraph, The Guardian, Forbes, GamesRadar, Time, Vulture, The Verge, The Independent, IGN, Kotaku, USA Today
Hope this helps. Neverrainy (talk) 01:13, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Best game of a certain year doesn't mean of all time, which is the issue here. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:19, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
From 2014, might add Mario Kart 8 or Dragon Age: Inquisition and I think that from 2016 the only ones I would add would be Overwatch and Uncharted 4. Now if I may, I wanted to take advantage of this theme and ask when you will going add Zelda: BotW and Super Mario Odyssey in the list, need to have more links from lists containing them or already has at least zelda in any list already added?? MalakoiExpert (talk) 19:05, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Do guys understand this is about having three different publications explicitly calling it one of the best games of all times? Reviews and GOTY awards don't count, as they suffer from a recentist bias. Odyssey was literally just released yesterday, so unless you can find three new "best of all time" lists written since then, it shouldn't be included. And there are seven Zelda games included on the list, not sure what you mean. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:20, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

TheWrap list

Here's another list I found, in my scouring of Google, that fills all of the aforementioned criteria, as long as TheWrap is a RS, which it is, if its extensive WP citations are any indication; also, Phil Owen has been cited on numerous other video game articles.

Contents:

TheWrap

1. Gods Will Be Watching 2. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt 3. Call of Duty: Black Ops II 4. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords 5. Mass Effect 3 6. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 7. Half-Life 2 8. Star Wars: TIE Fighter 9. Burnout Paradise 10. Red Dead Redemption 11. Portal 2 12. Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc 13. The Dig 14. Splinter Cell: Double Agent 15. Counter-Strike 16. Deus Ex: Invisible War 17. Max Payne 2 18. World in Conflict 19. Far Cry 2 20. Alpha Protocol 21. FTL: Faster than Light 22. Prison Architect 23. Super Mario RPG 24. Full Throttle 25. Command & Conquer: Red ALert 2 26. Simcity 2000 27. Zork 28. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 29. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay 30. Rollercoaster Tycoon 3

Red Alert 2 is the only game that will be added to the article as a result of this list. Phediuk (talk) 01:25, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

WhatCulture list

WhatCulture's 2017 list appears to have been lost in the shuffle here, despite fulfilling all requirements for inclusion: RS, single list, editor-chosen (i.e. not a reader poll, not machine-generated), explicitly about "best"/"greatest" games (not merely "great" or "influential" or "important" and not framed as merely "favorite" games), no platform/genre/era restrictions (i.e., not "best console games", not "best games of the 90s", etc.) Therefore, I'll start incorporating it into the list. Contents below:

WhatCulture

1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 2. Final Fantasy IX 3. Super Metroid 4. Rocket League 5. Metal Gear Solid 6. Red Dead Redemption 7. Dark Souls 8. Half-Life 2 9. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 10. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 11. Super Mario World 12. Overwatch 13. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 14. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 15. Mass Effect 2 16. Super Mario Galaxy 2 17. The Last of Us 18. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt 19. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 20. Bioshock 21. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 22. Super Mario 64 23. World of Warcraft 24. Tekken 3 25. Halo 3 26. Fallout 3 27. Puyo Puyo Tetris 28. Mario Kart 8 29. Titanfall 2 30. Batman: Arkham Asylum

Phediuk (talk) 21:49, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Never seen them used for gaming articles, are they usually considered reliable? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:50, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
    • A quick Google search turns up quite a few citations for WhatCulture in gaming articles, and it appears to be RS for other stuff, so it should be good. Phediuk (talk) 00:44, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
      • That's what I was wondering, thanks. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 07:50, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

UFO: Enemy Unknown

The game's article says Strategy and Turn-based tactics. Shouldn't we us that in the list too? SharkD  Talk  05:58, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

  • To avoid bloat, we don't need to mention every single genre the game could happen to fall in. Primary genres only. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 07:51, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Metacritic List

Two things on this:

  1. Do we really need this list? It's more or less a copy of the list on their website. We could just link it in External links. Also, Metacritic doesn't aggregate games made before the late 90s so the list is skewed.
  2. If we keep the list, do we keep it in order of how the games are listed on the site, or in alphabetical order? What I mean is, for example, do we order the games scored 97 in alphabetical order or in the same order as Metacritic? They don't order in alphabetical order, not sure if they are using more exact scores underneath the hood to decide the order.

TarkusABtalk 14:12, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

  • I personally don't see the list as necessary, as it seems that it's simply duplicating content from MC; we could simply link to it at the bottom of the article. And it's also true that MC does cover only a limited subset of games. Also, articles on the cite tend to use phrases like "best-reviewed" rather than "best", meaning that this list cannot necessarily be taken as Metacritic's official view of "best" games. Phediuk (talk) 14:22, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
  • I'd be in favor of just making it an external list. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:58, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
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