Talk:List of opera festivals

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Opera

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Does the George Enescu Festival really qualify for inclusion in this List??[edit]

Clearly, a worthy article, but I raise the question since, at a quick glance, the programme seems to offer only 1 performance each of two operas. The majority of the music is non-operatic.

This might better fit into another classcial music list, such as List of Music Festivals (if one exists.

Viva-Verdi 16:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Added by and responded to by Viva-Verdi, as originally posted on Talk page of Enescu article:

I decided to add the Opera category because of this following quote from List of opera festivals: "music festivals that have opera productions". The GEF has, from what I can quickly see from the program page, operas such as Bizet`s Carmen, Verdi`s La Traviata, Domenico Scarlatti`s Narciso and Puccini's Tosca. Of course, it`s not an opera festival per se. It a "cultural event" rather than only a "classical music festival" or an "opera festival". It also has a ballet spectacle by the Béjart Ballet group, for example [1], and, as you saw in the article, a classical music contest. - Theavex
So it depends on what do you understand by "music festivals that have opera productions". Must it have only operas? Me, I don`t know... Feel free to remove the cat. and the link from the List of opera festivals if you think it has to. - Theavex

Well, thanks for the comment. If you look at the list as produced, I think that you will find that the vast majority of entries (don't know about the existing red links ones) are organizations which run a festival comprised primarily of operas or have an opera component which is extensive or significant.

For example Edinburgh International Festival, while covering music and dance extensively, is running 6 operas in 2007,a couple of which have several performances of each work. So, I do feel it to be inappropriate for this festival to remain there, but let's leave it alone for now and see if anyone else contributes. Viva-Verdi 20:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Enescu Festival does belong - Romania doesn't really have a top tier opera house, so they put their resources in the festival, attract international names, etc. Same with the Budapest Spring Festival. In contract, Prague, which has a thriving opera scene, has a festival which is far more modest and local in scope.

Edinburgh may do some operatic-type "stuff", but doesn't really put on opera productions, as far as I know. Vitellia (talk) 20:56, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(I also took out Les Azuriales Opera Festival, because they are just piano accompanied - even the country house operas are orchestrated and staged.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vitellia (talk • contribs) 21:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also removing apprentice-oriented summer programs. Vitellia (talk) 23:26, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Version with a column of countries each with a national flag[edit]

I've just reverted a version of this list decorated with flags and country names as - in my opinion - they just clutter the page up unnecessarily. If anyone disagrees and can see a use for the flags, please say so. Thanks. --Klein zach 09:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If we have flags on this article, we'll have to have them everywhere! I see little value in having them, and support previous editor. Viva-Verdi (talk) 21:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New comments[edit]

Viva-Verdi: [2] - I know that an ancient Roman ball court is different from a Roman amphitheater, however that is the genre of the Macerata Festival. [3] - Actually I took the title from Operabase. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vitellia (talk • contribs) 22:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If it is what Operabase calls it, I'll agree to its use here. Viva-Verdi (talk) 17:17, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've reverted to the previous Viva-Verdi version, because of the number of changes. Can we discuss these here? Thanks. --Klein zach 00:50, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One of the problems with summer festivals is that there are hundreds of them - i.e. let's invite the touring arm of the Lithuanian National Opera to put on a show for us. And they are more mutable than Opera Companies, falling in and out of popularity.

Also some companies don't have the market for a full opera season, so they have a summer festival season instead - and I doubt this list should be a catch-all for companies that don't meet the List of opera companies criteria. i.e. Fort Worth and Saint Louis. I'm not sure Saint Louis has done anything notable in recent years. (Santa Fe, on the other hand, is a very notable festival.)

I was also removing the summer apprentice programs for lack of intrinsic notability - perhaps another list could be made for operatic apprenticeship programs.

Spoleti/Due Monde, although started with a splash by GianCarlo Menotti, has long lost both it's caché and any focus on opera.

I had left the Country House Operas in, although I'm not sure all of them should be.

(I haven't gotten to Germany yet.)

Vitellia (talk) 14:55, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the above comments. Here are my responses:

The criteria for including many of these festivals some years ago were different from the List of opera companies, which we defined rather more restrictvely. See article's header.

Opera Theatre of Saint Louis is a well-established festival with two directors having come from (and back to) Santa Fe. As the article notes, 12 world premieres were given. Colin Graham was long-time artistic director. I think it needs to stay.

In comparison, Fort Worth's festival is relatively new and may not warrant inclusion, but this should be discussed.

Country house opera fests are varied, I agree, but some, to my knowledge, include rarities such as Verdi's King for a Day.

Our criteria are sufficiently broad to include festivals which include more than just opera (Spoletto USA may be more innovative than its Italian version).

I think that we should see what other comments we receive. Viva-Verdi (talk) 17:17, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Adressing individual cases:

Saint Louis did some high profile things when it was started, but this hasn't been happening for some while now, and "Santa Fe lite" wouldn't really be a criteria for inclusion.
I don't really have any opinion on the Country House Operas, because I'm not up on them, other than Glyndebourne belongs.
It's easy enough for organizers of festivals focused on things other than opera, to hire a traveling company or a local conservatory, and have a opera. ie. the Spoletos, tourist festivals. A quick test is to see if there are any "Names" involved. Getting Names takes (in addition to funding) the planning ahead of knowledgeable organizers.
Likewise strictly conservatory programs shouldn't be included (like Wolftrap, Chautauqua).
Lake George Opera, Opera Barga Festival, and Fort Worth Opera = 'A' for effort, but not notable.

Vitellia (talk) 23:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Discussing individual festivals may be confusing the issue here. The introduction to the article says: "This is an inclusive list of opera festivals and summer seasons, and music festivals which have opera productions." The operative word is 'inclusive', rather than 'selected', 'notable', 'famous' or whatever. Of course the list could be made more restrictive, in which case that might be discusssed rather than individual names. --Klein zach 00:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Kleinzach because, as I have already noted, this list was never intended to be restrictive nor based upon some of the criteria mentioned.

I see it as an all-inclusive list and have no problems with Wolf Trap, etc. British country house operas, again as I noted, have/do include some rare operas and should not be removed either. Saint Louis may be "Santa Fe lite" (founded by the man who had worked in SFe and then took it over in 2000), but it stages some unusual operas and has launched some notable singers. Viva-Verdi (talk) 22:22, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have no trouble with the inclusiveness of the list or the current items in it. I also corrected one entry:

The venue for the Sferisterio Opera Festival is not a Roman arena. It is a neoclassical arena built in the 1820's as a stadium for handball. Voceditenore (talk) 12:51, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Theme?[edit]

I just noticed that "Theme" is not used consistently. I would take it to mean a theme (if any) relating to the programming, eg. rare works, baroque operas, Puccini etc., not a characteristic of the venue. Yet the following festivals have their "themes" are listed as:

Arena di Verona Festival - Roman arena

Chorégies d'Orange - Roman arena

Bregenz Festival - Large-stage

I'm not sure "Country house opera" really belongs in the theme column either as this does not relate to their programming, which can vary considerably in such festivals. Better perhaps to put it (if at all) in parentheses in the venue column? e.g.

Name of Opera Festival	Theme	Principal Venue	Location
Garsington Opera		Garsington Manor (Country house opera)	United Kingdom: Garsington

But I'd be inclined to leave it out. Country house opera is already in the See also list. Voceditenore (talk) 13:22, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I just checked the Operabase page on which this list is based. It categorizes by "type". This WP list confusingly conflates several different sub-types from Operabase - i.e. "Contemporary Works", "Themed festivals" "Large stage spectaculars" (plus some other sub-types not used by Operabase) all under the column "Theme". Is that a good idea? Perhaps "Type" would be a better name for that column.Voceditenore (talk) 13:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What about abolishing the "Theme" column and inserting a new column on the RH side entitled "Notes" or something like that. Then statements such as "Country House Opera venue" or "Takes place in Roman amphitheatre" or "Specialises in neglected repertory" would all fit. --GuillaumeTell 22:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think GuillaumeTell's solution is very good and solves a lot of the current problems.Voceditenore (talk) 22:15, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, this will solve the problem and I support the idea. Unfortunately, I'm traveling in California and so shall not be able to work on it until next week. Viva-Verdi (talk) 16:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've done it. Scarabocchio (talk) 12:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Adding website links?[edit]

I've just added a couple of festivals (Bayreuth Barock, and Wels). Neither has a WP page, so we get the redlink. Yes, I realise that I could create a stub (but I'm new here, so I'd like to leave that for a day or two, if you don't mind!). What does the team think of appending a link to the website of the festival (a) if it has no WP page, or (b) in all cases? Something like this ...

Name of Opera Festival	Theme	Principal Venue	Location
Wagner Festival Wels [4]	Richard Wagner	Theater im Greif	Austria: Wels

Scarabocchio (talk) 15:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

New structure[edit]

There are that many new festivals emerging that IMHO this list should be divided into continents at least, maybe even split up into countries, and a lot of new festivals should be added (i.e. from Austria at least Mörbisch, St. Margarethen, Klosterneuburg and Gars am Kamp). Any objections?--Meister und Margarita (talk) 01:23, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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