Talk:List of nu metal bands/Archive 3

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Puddle of Mud

Really? they sound nothing like nu metal. I get the feeling they're only on this list because they came about in the late 90s — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 02:22, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Reliably sourced though, and further sources can easily be found; a Google Books search reveals Michael Hann (of The Guardian) in his 'Guardian Book of Rock and Roll stating, fairly definitively, that "nu-metal has moved away from rap crossover into the post-grunge balladeering of Staind and Puddle of Mudd", putting the lie to the claim that all nu metal has to contain rap elements. Clearly this is not the case. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 06:53, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, Baz. I knew that was the case just from my own experience, but at last a definitive source.--¿3family6 contribs 11:08, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

WTF!!!

--4.255.204.214 (talk) 01:10, 28 February 2013 (UTC) About one third of the bands on this page aren't Nu Metal!!! Fix it please because you miss lead people.  :(--4.255.204.214 (talk) 01:10, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Clarification

We have a long-standing consensus, agreed upon long ago, that we don't include comments like "early" in metal list articles. This is precisely why the lede states "have been described as nu metal at some point in their career in a reliable journalistic source". Otherwise, we get into *even more* WP:NPOV debates and edit wars (remember that this list is like a magnet for them anyway). That is what the stylistics styles on the band articles are for. I have been pointed towards the list of glam metal bands... apparently this needs dealing with (it's one of the few metal lists I didn't source and copy-edit from scratch, so will go and have a look when I get a spare minute. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:58, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Ugh, just had a look. It's horrendous. The first thing that needs to go is the distinction between bands from pre-1993 and "revival bands". Massive, massive POV-error. Just horrible. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 20:00, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Marilyn Manson

I removed Marilyn Manson because they aren't a nu metal group. Having taken a look at the sources, I came across the conclusion that they were either inaccurate or misinterpreted. As such they were removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.26.253 (talk) 23:46, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Both sources are reliable and clearly state nu metal. MusicMight (aka Rock Detector) lists them as nu metal, and the allmusic source states they were one of the key bands in the whole movement. I call the big one bitey (talk) 15:32, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

ICP and Twiztid

these two rap groups are not nu metal and you are an idiot if you think so or rely on some other idiots review on them, they are not nu metal and you need to remove them and stop insulting nu metal... just because a group or band cam out with an album or gained popularity in the mid 90's and use a little bit of heavy guitar DOES NOT NOT MAKE THEM NU METAL.... Listen to the groups yourself before you make that choice!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.32.40.24 (talk) 18:57, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Linkin Park?

Why is Linkin Park on this list? That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Anyone who says that has obviously never listened to Linkin Park. You might as well say they are classical or country. --199.189.125.10 (talk) 22:53, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Seems reliably sourced.. Яehevkor ✉ 23:21, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Plus they were one of the leading bands of the "second wave" (late 90s-early 00s).--¿3family6 contribs 00:08, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Their first two albums are most definitely nu metal, although their more recent music is probably more on the alternative/pop side of things. I call the big one bitey (talk) 23:22, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Metallica

I added Metallica since St.Anger is nu metal and i have a reliable source proving it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 10:24, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Molotov

I'm pretty sure this grammy award winning Mexican rap metal group is nu metal — Preceding unsigned comment added by TyRezac1997 (talk • contribs) 03:37, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

SOAD

Synthwave.94 has removed System of a Down from the list, asserting that a consensus has been reached that System of a Down is not nu metal, per this talk discussion. I have reverted this because no less than 6 reliable sources are cited (there are a few more citations, but those could potentially be disputed, and one actually is disputed) are given in the list. I looked at the talk page link that Synthwave provided, which is an old one that I have viewed before, and the discussion there very clearly is against listing "nu metal" on the SOAD infobox. HOWEVER, there was no consensus to remove nu metal from the "music" section of the article, and that style is currently listed among a host of others. So I see no reason for the band to be removed from this list. Currently the criteria for the list, which arose out of numerous hot-blooded discussions, reads "bands that have been described as members of the genre by professional journalists at some stage in their career." SOAD would certainly fall under this listing. Stylus Magazine even called SOAD one of the top 10 bands of nu metal. And we have Ian Christe in Sound of the Beast, AllMusic's Eduardo Rivadavia, and other highly reliable books and online sources. This band passes in flying colors. Note: First, the IP address that also reverted Synthwave's edits is not mine. I have no wish to get in an edit war, and especially no wish to get embroiled in a sock investigation. Second, as can be seen in a discussion above, I am not for including every band just because it gets a passing label of nu metal at some point in its career. I removed Living Sacrifice, which I had added a year or two earlier, because the reference was weak. Thirdly, Synthwave.94 has been removing other band listings, calling solidly reliable sources unreliable.--¿3family6 contribs 15:08, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree with what user 3family6 said it is not my intention to troll but I see no reason why System of a Down should be removed from this list when it so clearly meets the criteria for it. Numerous sources have been provided and I am sure many more could be added as well if need be. 90.200.76.142 (talk) 15:37, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

As I said in my edit summaries, consistency between articles matters. That's how Wikipedia works and lists are not an exception to this rule. Even if several references call System of a Down a "nu metal" band it does not mean it should be included in the list. Other sources clearly say this band is not a nu metal (see here).
Also several sources used in this list are not reliable, and I really don't see what makes this first source, this second source or this third source (a clearly Googled search which doesn't even say the band 311 is a nu metal band) reliable. This list really needs some clean up anyway. Synthwave.94 (talk) 19:33, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
Rockfreaks.net has been determined as reliable on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums, though it has not been added to the sources list. Uproxx.com has an editorial team, and isn't a content mill like About.com, so I see no reason to question it's integrity. The g-books source I couldn't access before on the cited page, but it was a reliable work so I assumed AGF. Now I can access it. It doesn't explicitly "311 is nu-metal," but it's talking about the band in context of nu-metal. The only problem I have with that source is that it equates rap metal and nu metal, which are not the same, but are often confused. So I won't contest that source being removed.
I didn't see any sources provided in the linked discussion above that said that SOAD isn't nu-metal (not that there might indeed be such sources, I just didn't see them in the discussion). Rather, they labeled SOAD under a different genre tag.--¿3family6 contribs 21:53, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Personally I ain't concerned about whether the 311 sources are accurate it's not my problem rather the fact which has been stated many times before that System of a Down very cleary meet the criteria for listing on THIS article just becausee they do not on another article does not mean that decision carries over here. If you are so concerned about consistency you picked a bad place to edit in list sections 80% of bands in this list of nu metal bands section and indeed of many other genre lists do not have that genre as their main genre on their main page an example of which I pointed out to you was Sum 41. 90.200.76.142 (talk) 19:46, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Incorrect. I've already edited (and significantly improved) several other lists before this one and these lists all feature representative bands for each genre/subgenre. Most artists included in these lists are correctly associated with the genre of the list they have been included in because several editors (including myself) took care about improving consistency between these lists and the musicians included in these lists. And this is one of the reasons why this list clearly needs to be improved. Synthwave.94 (talk) 20:22, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

To be honest I probably jumped the gun concerning SOAD and nu metal on this site. I still consider it a part of the genre however I have no intention of being a wiki user and editing articles so I will leave you to make up your decison on its category.90.200.76.142 (talk) 20:30, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

I've got to admit I don't care about SOAD and I don't even know if it is an actual nu metal band or not. The only thing I know about this band is that the "nu metal" label seems to be erroneous. I may be wrong, but that's what I read throughout archives. I also think other bands such as Sum 41 shouldn't be included in this list because they are only backed by one source or two. Just because one person decided to call them this way is not enough. What I mean is that a music critic can say whatever he/she wants about an artist, and sometimes using common sense is better to improve Wikipedia rather than using these sources in lists. Synthwave.94 (talk) 20:56, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
Considering how many different styles SOAD is labeled under, I don't think you can easily reach a consensus as to what they should be called, other than hard rock and experimental metal and experimental rock. So I don't see why they should be contested here, when multiple reliable sources call the group nu metal.--¿3family6 contribs 21:53, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Proposal

List of progressive metal bands has a rule that a band needs two or more sources to be included on the list (or was that "more than two sources"? I don't remember). Maybe the same should be done here. Thoughts? --63.155.164.33 (talk) 05:56, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Nickelback nu-metal?

This has to be the most unreal thing in this site.

Nickelback has never been categorized as nu-metal, they have no rapping, no songs from them are as close as having rapping and their early releases were more of a grunge influenced Eddie Vedder type of voice with Nirvana type of influences pull down there. Also, Nickelback has guitar solos, look at Where Do I Hide from Silver Side Up 2001's effort or Not Leavin Yet or Diggin This from 2000's The State effort. Nickelback has no Djs, no Hip Hop influences at all, they are just radio-friendly grunge.

They are a Post-grunge band and no nu-metal, some of their songs are heavy and lean forwards to metal but are definitely not nu metal because they have guitar solos like Side Of A Bullet for a example and also, they are too melodic and have no screaming or death growls. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikeis1996 (talk • contribs) 01:06, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Why do some people say in here that Nickelback is Nu-Metal, they are nothing of Metal influenced?

Nickelback is not nu metal. Nu Metal has no guitar solos, tuned down guitar riffs and they are mostly based on riffs. Also, DJs are used for scratching and electronic backgrounds and also Nu metal vocal range goes all of singing, rapping, screaming and growling. Nickelback doesn't rap, Nickelback doesn't scream, and also, Nickelback doesn't have no growl that sounds like Death metal.

Nickelback also has guitar solos and a lot of their songs are based on the Seattle grunge scene. Also, the band does have a few metal songs like Side Of A Bullet but Side Of A Bullet has guitar solos which are influenced of Pantera so Nickelback aren't Nu metal. They were popular around the Nu Metal era but there era was Post-grunge, during the early 2000s, the Rock music scene was ruled by Post-grunge and the Metal scene was ruled by Nu Metal, Nickelback belong into the Post-grunge scene along with Creed, Puddle Of Mudd, The Calling, Foo Fighters, Lifehouse, Hoobastank and much more. However, Nickelback has nothing that is Nu Metal related, nothing at all. Hear, Silver Side Up, you will hear guitar solos like in Where Do I Hide and also, their sound is not really tuned down. Just a radio-friendly grunge record like Bush, saying that Nickelback is Nu metal is like saying that Bush and Creed are also Nu metal which of course they are not, not even close. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikeis1996 (talk • contribs) 21:42, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Title of the page vs inclusion of Slayer

The title of the page implies that Slayer are a nu-metal band because they've delved into nu-metal on at least one album. This does not make Slayer a nu-metal band. I think the title should be edited to read "The following is a list of bands that have been described as members of the nu metal genre by professional journalists at some stage in their career." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Astriaal (talk • contribs) 06:51, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Well originally they had (Diabolus in Musica period) next to them, but an editor keeps removing it. Same thing with Jane's Addiction and Primus who are certainly not "nu metal" bands overall. --I call the big one bitey (talk) 09:36, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

It is reliably sourced - but the sources do specify it to one specific album, some even imply it's more of a nu metal element rather than full on nu metal. It's a bit weak to be honest. I wouldn't be opposed to its removal if there was a consensus to do so. Яehevkor ✉ 09:46, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
I think if it's only one album, the band can be removed, especially since two of the three sources only say that nu-metal was an influence. This list should provide an overall look at nu-metal bands, not include every single band that played nu-metal for a brief period. If it were several albums and/or several years that Slayer played a nu-metal style, then they can be included. I'd say we should extend this to bands other than Slayer - Living Sacrifice can probably go, since only The Hammering Process is nu-metal influenced.--¿3family6 contribs 13:54, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Personally I think Slayer's Diabolus was too important an album to the nu metal genre(it saw an established thrash metal band release an album to the scene) not to mention on this list would be wrong so even if the small text over the whole band remains it should be kept. 90.200.76.142 (talk) 15:31, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

  • I was just about to post a comment about this issue. There are three of these here - Insane Clown Posse, Jane's Addiction and Slayer, listed because they've had a single album described as nu-metal. And yet the sources are not saying that these are nu-metal bands, but that they've recorded nu-metal albums. I don't know if the description is right or wrong in regards to the music (the ICP one is warrantless, considering that they are a hip-hop group that do not have live instrumentation, only samples of previously recorded instruments, which is just not metal), but it conflicts drastically with the title of the article, which is nu metal bands. Can we also remove sources that only describe the album as nu-metal and not the band? Obviously reviews aren't inherently bad sources, but when they say one thing, and they're used to claim another statement contradictory of what the source actually says, it's absolutely absurd. There's a review for Meat Loaf's Bat Out Of Hell III describing the title track as nu-metal, so now we have to list Meat Loaf as a nu-metal band. Or we could go by what the sources actually say. 63.155.164.33 (talk) 05:51, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
  • If we were to go by this stupid judgment that because a band has one album and people determine that to categorize their genre. Despite what the overall band represents of the genre they really are. Then we ought to be overly technical and this list would expand. I'm the one who removed Slayer, for my first time, off this nu-metal list. Because some idiot dictated that they were nu-metal because they had ONE album that they thought was nu-metal. When overall, millions of people that aren't that idiot, agreed that they were Thrash Metal. KEEP THEM IN THRASH METAL! THEY HAVE NO PART IN NU-METAL FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Whoever even put them in the Nu-Metal category in the first place, obviously doesn't know their music well enough and was probably born in the late 90s when nu-metal was actually fresh. They picked up a specific Slayer album and thought "damn! dat stuff is too nu-metal!". Get over it, whoever you are, they are THRASH metal. Not NU metal. Slayer began in the 80s, while Nu-Metal was around in the mid-90s. Case closed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Infyrin (talk • contribs) 15:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Did someone decide to completely ignore this discussion and arbitrarily add notes as if this discussion never happened? SMH. Article says "nu metal bands", not "bands with one nu-metal album". 71.215.181.115 (talk) 05:54, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
As with all list articles, as per very long-standing consensus, bands that have been described in relaible sources as having played nu-metal *at any stage in their career* may be included with a relevant cite. There should be a note to this effect in the article lede, but any "discussion" on here about how many albums or tracks or whatever the band played in this style is WP:OR and therefore utterly irrelevant. This is not a forum. If someone finds a reliable source for Slayer as "nu metal", it stays - regardless of your opinion of the truth. ˜˜˜˜ Blackmetalbaz

Cradle of Filth?!

Did some black metal elitist thrown in Cradle of Filth here? No source for them being nu metal either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.55.106.102 (talk) 07:27, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Organise into a table?

Would it not be beneficial to have this organised into some sort of sortable table? Maybe something along the lines of this?

Artist Year's Active Associated Genres References
311 1988 - present Alternative rock • reggae rock • rap rock • funk rock • alternative metal
36 Crazyfists 1994 - present Metalcore • alternative metal
38th Parallel 2000 - 2006 Christian rock • alternative rock • rap rock
40 Below Summer 1998 - present Alternative metal • hard rock

I think a quick overview of when the band was formed and what other sounds they are frequently associated with could be useful in my mind, say if someone wanted to quickly view nu-metal bands that incorporated rap in their music and which bands were formed in the 90's. I can easily make the table in this format for the rest of them if you also think it could be good for the article. SilentDan (talk) 05:40, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

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