Talk:List of Billboard Digital Song Sales number ones of 2023

Like Crazy sales

I'm aware we are well past the point of avoiding WP:3RR and won't mind facing the consequences. But since Vanjiminie refused to open a discussion here I'm doing it. I'm restoring the figure added by DiegoF 1996 with the appropiate source (even if you disagree about the sales there's no reason to delete the source). Marioedit8 left the amount of sales empty because the figure originally reported (254,000) combined cd sales with downloads. Vanjiminie, I repeatedly explained to you why your edits were wrong. You have not added a valid source to support your claims. Feel free to do so here instead of flooding the article history with indiscriminate reverts. Discussions should be limited to talk pages anyway. - Ïvana (talk) 02:23, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I emailed you and replied but I couldn't find the comment so I commented it again. I will explain to you in details for the 3rd time.

On April 5, 2023, an editor named DiegoF 1996 edited Jimin's sales and added this information:

"Number of sales this week added (US [38K] = Global [86K] - Global Excl US [48K])"

This calculation is completely wrong. I will explain the difference between 3 main Billboard digital-counting charts

- Global 200 & Global Excl. US: counting digital sales from worldwide retailers like Amazon, Itunes and NOT counting data from BTS official store (BTS official store only counts in US)

- Digital song sales chart (also Hot 100): counting digital sales from US retailers like Amazon, Itunes, Qobuz and INCLUDES data from BTS official store

So we cannot do the calculation: "Number of sales this week added (US [38K] = Global [86K] - Global Excl US [48K])". This is completely wrong. 38k are only sales from Amazon, Itunes, Qobuz in the US, the remaining 200k sales are from BTS official store.

According to Billboard, Like Crazy sold 254k sales including downloads and CDs. [1]

According to Forbes, Like Crazy sold 241k downloads and topped the Digital Song Sales chart. This is an accurate source. [2]

There can't be any song that only sold 38k downloads and topped the Billboard Hot 100.

I hope you will understand my explanation. Thank you Vanjiminie (talk) 03:02, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Discussions here are meant to prevent reverts while we reach an agreement. I see you're still doing it and even removing the source for that week. The source is supposed to support 1) the amount of sales 2) the artist and song being number 1. Makes no sense to remove it but I will wait and see if someone else intervenes because this is like talking to a wall.

You're saying the figure provided by Billboard using the Global 200 is incorrect because they don't count sales from the BTS store. It is true that sales from direct-to-consumer sites are excluded. We have no way to determine what is the amount of sales from that store, and we can't just make up a number and add it. This applies to every artist, not just Jimin. The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds material (WP:BURDEN). If there's no source including the sales from that store, we use the figure provided by Billboard. And no, Forbes is not a valid source (WP:FORBESCON) but even if it was your calculation still doesn't make sense. We know that 48k sales came from outside the US. Does 241k includes those? Total sales including CDs is 254k. Excluding those 48k sales is 206k and that is still counting CDs. We're just making up numbers at this point.

The confirmed amount of US sales we have is 38k. If you find a source that tells us how many sales came from the BTS store, or a source that explicitly mentions US only digital sales from retailers AND d2c sites feel free to add it. - Ïvana (talk) 03:48, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I'll re-add the source about Jimin topping the digital song sales chart but I hope you don't add the ridiculous figure 38k to it. Leave it blank. As you told me, if I have "a source that tells us how many sales came from the BTS store, or a source that explicitly mentions US only digital sales from retailers AND d2c sites". Yes I only have source from Forbes and if it's not valid enough for Wiki I won't write anything. You also don't have "a source that tells us how many sales came from the BTS store, or a source that explicitly mentions US only digital sales from retailers AND d2c sites" so please don't fill in the first week Like Crazy sales data either. You and I are the same, we don't have a specific and clear source from Billboard about US digital sales so let's stop arguing here. If you keep writing 38k, I'll keep deleting it Vanjiminie (talk) 04:33, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Third opinion

voorts (talk · contribs) wants to offer a third opinion, but requires clarification as follows: I'm requesting clarification because I'm slightly confused. The article indicates "The Billboard Digital Song Sales chart is a chart that ranks the most downloaded songs in the United States. Its data is compiled by Nielsen SoundScan based on each song's weekly digital sales, which combines sales of different versions of a song by an act for a summarized figure." I don't know why there needs to be any math done here or how there could even be a dispute over the numbers, given this is something that is easily verifiable via Billboard's website (with a Pro user account). voorts (talk/contributions) 23:33, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

@Voorts: The first BB article added as a source mentioned Like Crazy topping this chart, but mentioned it sold 254k song downloads and CD singles combined. In cases like that, we need to look for alternate sources since counting physical sales would be misleading. So the next source used came from Billboard Global 200. That chart counts global sales and global sales excluding the U.S, which is where the 38k figure came from. Global 200 doesn't count direct-to-consumer sites. We have no way to know how many sales from the BTS store were excluded. - Ïvana (talk) 00:07, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request (Dispute regarding the amount of sales of a specific song):

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on List of Billboard Digital Song Sales number ones of 2023 and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

This article is a "[l]ist of Billboard Digital Song Sales number ones of 2023" (emphasis added). Digital Song Sales is a particular chart compiled by Billboard according to a particular methodology, and there's no evidence that one can recreate the Digital Songs chart by subtracting two other Billboard charts from one another (cf. WP:SYNTH). As I noted above, the best source here is the actual Digital Song Sales chart for the week of April 8, which can be accessed by a user with a Pro subscription to Billboard; maybe somebody at WPMUSIC can help out in pulling that info. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:30, 8 May 2023 (UTC)