Talk:Leeann Tweeden

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Do you have any specific support that Tweeden wasn't accepted at Harvard? I've found several cites that say she was. Finder seems to be questioning the fact but he doesn't actually dispute it. And his overall column seems to be unhappy with the idea of women competing against him in sports broadcasting. MK2 16:31, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The sources that confirm she declined a Harvard acceptance are much plagarized mini bios on the web that don't give additonal details. The only print media source related to this topic is the Finder article. The fact Finder does not dispute is her assumption she could have been accepted. lots of issues | leave me a message 6 July 2005 03:30 (UTC)

>>>She was responsible for one of the best website names I've encountered. "The Garden Of Tweeden".

Covino and Rich

Today I removed this sentence, "She will join the Covino and Rich show on Sirius radio 108 (Maxim Radio) on Tuesdays and Thursdays." For one thing, it was uncited, and I can't find anything to confirm its truth. PKT(alk) 21:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

"skipped" college?

Resolved

One does not skip college; either one goes to college or one does not go to college. ForDorothy (talk) 09:03, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

This seems to have been addressed, so I am marking this section as resolved. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:34, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Curious day for an image swap

Given the news today, it seems curious that there was the need for an image swap. It smacks of a political purpose. Mikesilv (talk) 01:27, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Additionally, the problem in question is not an "allegation" as described, but a documented and acknowledged fact - also smacking of politics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.170.88.70 (talk) 05:23, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

refs

• Tweeden, Leeann (2017-11-16). "Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There's Nothing Funny About It" McIntyre In The Morning [Interview with Leeann Tweeden November 16, 2017 (audio)]. kabc.com. Los Angeles, California: KABC. Archived from the original on November 18, 2017. Retrieved November 18, 2017. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |registration= and |subscription= (help); Invalid |script-title=: missing prefix (help); Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

<ref>
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkTvGjSW7v0
Leeann Tweeden: Senator Al Franken kissed and groped me without my consent
KABC RADIO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoF3rq4qjtA
Leeann Tweeden Reads Apology Letter From Sen. Al Franken | The View
The View

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRm4jyI4WM
Al Franken Accuser Leeann Tweeden Speaks Out About Sexual Misconduct Allegations Against Senator
The View

64.175.40.10 (talk) 00:50, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

either "over or on" her breasts?

I run into a paywall for the sources provided but even still, who should I believe if not my own two eyes which clearly show his hands above her breasts, not on them. Plus, contrary to what our president suggests, there are no more photos showing more intimate images. And, in fact, I just happen to have a couple of them myself and I can say for a fact that if anyone put their hands on them while I was sleeping I'd know it. At any rate, I think the wording should be changed to "over", not "on". Gandydancer (talk) 22:02, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Here is the photograph. He seems to be touching her with his fingers. SarahSV ^(talk) 17:03, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

It's a hover. BLP please benefit of the doubt, etc. At most you've got a fingertip situation, but given the foreshortening of a photo lens (and his obvious unfortunate intent to be mugging) there's no hand contact established by the photo. In fact, the shadows of his entire hand are visible on her clothing, indicating fresh air between him and her.🧐 SPECIFICO talk 19:33, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

He's touching her. She said of the photograph incident that she was groped ("How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it's funny?"), and the sources are saying it too. SarahSV ^(talk) 22:06, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

If she was asleep and her only knowledge is from the photograph, what's her basis for saying she was grabbed groped or even touched. We all know what he did was reprehensible. But what is your basis for groped and grabbed? Surely not her accusation or the photo. SPECIFICO talk 23:09, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

There's a bigger problem here. The article is stating the events as they were stated in Tweeden's accusation. But at least some of what she says appears demonstrably false or exaggerated. For example, she states he "grabbed" her breasts and "forcibly kissed her" when on the ABC radio tape I believe she says "aggressively", after she said OK kiss me. Then she compares Franken's actions to Weinstein's. With the passage of several days now, after all the initial acknowledgements and condemnations of Franken's misconduct, there are sources beginning to discuss the timing, presentation, and candor of Tweeden's accounts of this matter. We should assemble a group of strong RS discussion and craft a more complete and objective narrative. SPECIFICO talk 21:45, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Though I don't remember her exact words, I'm sure that on the first TV airing of her grievances that I saw, she said something to the effect that Senator Franken pretended to fondle her in that photograph. She also said that she never meant for him to lose his senate seat or be investigated, though I'm not sure how she thought her news would be taken, especially by the conservative right. She mentioned that another woman had contacted her (e-mail, maybe) about the same thing happening to her, but Tweeden hadn't yet read the message. Has she expanded on that woman's statement? Does it concern Franken, as she seemed to be hinting at in her appearance, or does it not?

Has it been discovered how Roger Stone knew in advance that Tweeden's statement would come out? Does she know Stone? Since she knows Sean Hannity fairly well, did she tell him and he then told Stone? There seems to be more to this.

Thank you for your time, Wordreader (talk) 08:00, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

In her radio interview on KABC she clearly misrepresents the event and the context. I kinda think we should remove or greatly reduce the article content on this until we can sort out the BLP and NPOV issues here on talk. SPECIFICO talk 16:11, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Kissed but not groped?

@SPECIFICO: All the sources, starting from the original KABC piece, but continuing to the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, Reuters..., describe Tweeden's accusation as of being both forcibly kissed and groped. Yet when I wrote as much, SPECIFICO reverted with the comment BLP -- questionable accusation stated as fact. I'm pretty sure I was stating it as part of the accusation, not as a fact, and think we should follow the reliable sources in writing about both, not just one. --GRuban (talk) 21:46, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

This is a difficult issue to sort out, and it's actually a good example of why we say WP:NOTNEWS and other policies that help us steer clear of situations that may strain our resources to stick to NPOV, V, and BLP. We do have a primary video of her stating that he grabbed her breasts, groped her, forcibly, etc. etc. and then we have a photo that shows none of this. Is there a witness who saw him do the things she claims in the KABC video version? Then we have her saying she agreed to rehearse the kiss, but then we have "forcibly kiss" when what she later said was that he kissed her hard and aggressive. There's a lot communicated by the choice of language and words here and the reporting on this has not ripened to the point where these issues have been sorted out by the mainstream reporting. SPECIFICO talk 23:40, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Still don't get your objection to grope but not to forcibly kiss. Are you by chance objecting to both but for some reason only deleting one? --GRuban (talk) 02:21, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Frankly I forget what I removed. I suppose "forcibly" could be changed to "forcefully" -- I think the more interesting question is whether RS will unpack the apparent contradictions in her versions of the story and the contradictions between her testimony and other available information. SPECIFICO talk 03:19, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

You removed the word "groped" from the allegation. I linked it above, twice, my addition and your removal. Do you no longer object to the word? --GRuban (talk) 03:33, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Well he did not grope her. He did forcibly kiss her. He did humiliate her with the photo. What's wrong with hover or touch? "Grope" isn't really very encyclopedic language anyway. What does it mean? SPECIFICO talk 03:47, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

No, actually, we don't know and can't write that. We just have her word that he forcibly kissed her, just as we similarly just have her word that he groped her. That's what makes them both accusations. He didn't completely admit to or completely deny either, just said that he remembers it differently, but apologizes, and to believe women. --GRuban (talk) 04:45, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm OK with your last edit that replaces "forcibly kissed" with "inappropriate behavior", then lets the rest of the section convey the details. That works. --GRuban (talk) 00:22, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your help with this. SPECIFICO talk 00:26, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

She has the disadvantage of not being a witness to the alleged "groping" itself. She reacted to the picture, her emotional response (understandable!) then created an imagined scenario, and then she publicly accused Franken of something he didn't do. That's a serious thing to do. The picture she uses as evidence proves he did not grope her. There is no evidence that he touched her at all. -- BullRangifer (talk) 17:47, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Section too long

These details are about Franken, not Tweeden, so I suggest we shorten the section to roughly this. Discussion about whether it was forcible or forceful, etc, can continue at Talk:Al Franken. SarahSV ^(talk) 04:54, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Context regarding skit and kiss

The following are primary sources, but they provide context for editors, regardless of whether there are ultimately RS reports concerning these facts. Tweeden apparently did not know or did not recount significant contextualizing facts concerning her interactions with Franken on the USO tour.[1]

The script for this skit, which apparently was written for one of Franken's previous USO tours, was published in Mother Jones in 2004. [2]
SPECIFICO talk 17:04, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

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Jane Mayer's story constrained by print, no use of photos; there is much more detail available if people want to be editing

See N1-N225 long twitter thread. Of course, a Twitter thread is not RS, but it links to numerous articles, photos, videos, all organized into pretty good chronology, unlike some of he photos that got posted. Tweet N10 starts a section of additions & errata, N10.1-N28, so there are more than 250 tweets in this thread. I'm totally consumed with other things right now, but there are useful pieces, like:

N72-N75 Full video of Karri Turner in 2002 with Franken

N161-N167 explanation of Interceptor Body Armor Tweeden worse, which includes .5" ceramic plate, not merely Kevlar

N168-N178 Tweeden at2500 miles from home at 2009 USO-Metro gala, where he was top honoree. She chatted & laughed with him, seen in 4 Gettyimages photos, then lied to interviewers, claiming she was cold & turned away.

N224-N225 35 appearances on Hannity show, from her Tweets & blog psots. JohnMashey (talk) 22:02, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Tweeden no longer at KABC after January 2020, unclear if she is currently on radio or TV anywhere

Next time someone edits, KABC changed its programming at beginning of 2020, dropped various live local shows in favor of syndicated programming. I'm not exactly sure when this took effect, but her last tweets with Dr Drew seem January 2020. See KABC Cuts Most Of Local Lineup, December 5, 2019 JohnMashey (talk) 18:56, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I do not know if there is any RS for this anywhere, but Tweeden actually appeared on Hannity at least 35 times and with Gutfeld on Red Eye show at least 17 times from 2009 to 2014, as determined by going through all her Tweets. See Tweets N224-225 enumeration of Tweeden on Hannity or GutfeldJohnMashey (talk) 00:36, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Question of descriptors

I just restored some material that was a controversial edit of mine. I'm concerned with certain descriptors such as "provocateur" for Stone and "conspiracy theorist" for Jones - I agree both words can be accurate to describe them, just concerned that they can be leading descriptors in this context, unless there is material in the sources suggesting that this aspect of their work is relevant (i.e. that the Tweeden allegations were a Republican-created hit). If consensus is that it should stay, it's not a big deal to me. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 10:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)