Talk:KFC/GA2

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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 13:25, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give this a go. I notice that you've put this up for GA once before and have been doing some substantial work on it over the past six months, which Chris Cunningham (Thumperward) has praised you for, so hopefully this will be fairly straightforward. The sources appear to be mostly online, which makes doing a check for factual accuracy easier. KFC is one of those things like McDonalds and Burger King that really brings out the red mist in some people, so getting a true neutral point of view on this would be a good achievement, in my view. --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:25, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dead Links[edit]

  • This link, used to cite several facts and figures peppered around the article, returns HTTP 400 "Request error" (and is marked as such in the article).
Removed.Farrtj (talk) 15:58, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are six references, all relating to KFC's corporate website or divisions thereof, that return HTTP 404 "Not found"
Dead links have now all been sorted out. Farrtj (talk) 15:27, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lead[edit]

  • Aside from the phrase "An "American icon"", neither of the two sources on the end of the second sentence cite any of the other facts in that sentence, such as being the largest chicken restraunt chain, 17,000 stores and 105 countries. You might find the KFC's corporate website has these facts and figures, though, or some other Yum Brands report.
According to Wikipedia guidelines, leads don't need citations, as they are merely summarising what is already said in the article. Farrtj (talk) 14:05, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what appears to be the case when I read WP:CITELEAD. I tend to do the lead last, and so information is already cited, but it's not an absolute requirement that the lead must be citation free. Either way, the important point here is that the article has a claim of 17,000 restaurants that isn't currently verifiable. --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What are you talking about? The 17,000 restaurants claim is followed by a reference in both the lead and the infobox. The reference, which is the Yum Annual Report 2011 states "As of year end 2011, KFC had 3,701 units in China, 8,920 units in YRI and 4,780 units in the U.S." That's over 17,000. Farrtj (talk) 14:23, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You probably want to put that information in the body of the article, as it's not obvious. What about the other claims of operating in 105 countries, largest chicken restaurant chain? --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:28, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
All of these claims are cited in the Annual Report which was linked to at the end of the sentence which made these claims. I have highlighted the specific sentences in the reference now.Farrtj (talk) 14:49, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This source claims KFC has only about 11,000 restaurants
If you look at the bottom of the webpage of that source you mention, you will see that it hasn't been updated since 2008. That accounts for the discrepancy in the number. Also, an Annual Report is beyond redoubt among the best sources for official company information.Farrtj (talk) 19:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "(as "Colonel Sanders"; Sanders had been made a ... )" This bit in brackets jars a bit. Perhaps it's worth rewording or taking this bit out of the lead.
Changed it.Farrtj (talk) 22:07, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Chicken sandwich and Chicken burger both redirect to the same article - not much value in having both listed in the lead. Pick one and leave the other one out. Since this is an article about a US company, I'd go with the US variant of Chicken sandwich.
Removed the superfluous hyperlink.Farrtj (talk) 22:07, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ", often supplied by PepsiCo". This is a bit unclear. Surely if PepsiCo is the corporate owner of KFC, all drinks would be supplied by it. What drinks aren't supplied by them? (Without standing in front of a counter at my local KFC, I can't remember)
PepsiCo are not the corporate owner of KFC since 1997. Farrtj (talk) 14:05, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll come back to the lead later once I've done the rest of the article. --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:54, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Origin[edit]

  • The reference " KFC (1980). "Colonel Harland Sanders: From Corbin to the World" could do with a bit more context. If this is a print source, include the ISBN, if one exists.
Done.Farrtj (talk) 19:03, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done.Farrtj (talk) 19:03, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "about 30 minutes to do, too long for a restaurant operation." - the punctuation doesn't look quite right here. Maybe consider splitting this sentence into two?
Done.Farrtj (talk) 19:17, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grimes, William (26 August 2012), New York Times reference needs a web link
Done.Farrtj (talk) 19:21, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Not only did production speeds increase" needs a comma after "increase"
Done.Farrtj (talk) 19:17, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done.Farrtj (talk) 19:17, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More later.... --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:27, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Franchise[edit]

  • The two "Nation's Restaurant News." citing "a product hailing from Kentucky was unique" seem to go to a search page.
Yes, frustratingly the FindArticle page has been redirected.Farrtj (talk) 22:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "used at most KFC locations in the US" - US should read U.S. to be consistent with everything else
Done.Farrtj (talk) 22:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sale and rebranding[edit]

  • The Financial Times source (used to cite Sanders getting a lifetime salary and main quality controller) suggests there is a web link - can you find one?
The citation is from The Financial Times Historical Archive, which is not accessible, even in preview form, to the general reader. It is behind a password encrypted wall, accessible only to subscribing institutions. The Historical Archive is not the same thing as www.ft.com. Farrtj (talk) 22:18, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reference ""KFC Corporation". Company Profiles for Students" is a little vague. Is there a web link or extra information. Some of the article cited to this source can also be cited to this existing one used earlier in this section.
Sorted.Farrtj (talk) 12:38, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "U.S'.s" looks wrong to me, probably wants to be "U.S's", but I can't find the relevant bit in the Manual of Style.
Corrected.Farrtj (talk) 12:38, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The concept caught on because it was the best chicken most people had ever tasted" - this sounds a bit over the top. Perhaps tweak slightly to "The concept caught on because, according to local historian James C. Klotter, it was the best chicken most people had ever tasted"
I've just removed the whole sentence. It's a bit too hearsayish.Farrtj (talk) 12:37, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does the source "Williams, "Business Update – Brown Backs Rogers' New Chicken Chain", The Kentucky Post" have a web link or some other indentifier? It looks a bit vague.
Found and replaced with a New York Times reference instead. Farrtj (talk) 12:50, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sander's rant about gravy is cited to the "Daily Mirror" - I assume that's the Daily Mirror, yes?
Done.Farrtj (talk) 21:59, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1975 Heublein settled out of court with Sanders for $1 million ($4,319,109 in 2013 dollars), continued his salary as goodwill ambassador" - this sentence makes it sound like Heublein continued as goodwill ambassador, not Sanders. Probably wants rewording a bit.
I've reworded it a bit.Farrtj (talk) 20:15, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Return of Sanders, sale to PepsiCo[edit]

  • Do we have a source for Sander's death in 1980?
Done.Farrtj (talk) 21:58, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Worth mentioning perhaps that the 1993 introduction of rotisserie chicken wasn't successful
I don't think so. They've introduced loads of products that failed to succeed over the years.Farrtj (talk) 22:53, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More later... Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:22, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tricon/Yum! Brands[edit]

  • The bits of the first paragraph that relate to this Economist source are a little bit too close to a copypaste of the original, floating on the edge of a copyright violation. I think one sentence on its own would probably okay, but not everything. Might just be worth writing this bit again in your own words.
I've reworded the last sentence of the first paragraph.Farrtj (talk) 12:22, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "$4.5 billion ($6,514,925,373 in 2013 dollars)" - you don't need to be that accurate, "approx $6.5 billion in 2013 dollars" will suffice and be clearer. Same goes for other currency updates elsewhere in the article.
It's not worth changing. There's a program written into the article that automatically updates the value as time goes by. As I won't be able to update the article forever, and can't rely on others to do so, I think it should remain. Farrtj (talk) 12:22, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I can see that's an issue with Template:Inflation and off topic for this. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:55, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "From 2002 to 2005 KFC" wants a comma after "2005"
Done.Farrtj (talk) 12:22, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "On one day he filmed," through to ""carry on" is an exact copy of this NY Times source. Also the second part of this text is cited to the wrong source (this 1986 report), as are several other sentences in this whole paragraph.
Corrected the copy. Second point: must have been some sort of clerical error here. I have corrected it. Farrtj (talk) 12:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's a lot of information about APP that seems to be backed up to a KFC Phillipines source - I'm not sure where this information comes from
Some sort of mix up. Very odd. Quickly sorted out anyhow. Farrtj (talk) 12:34, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 23:05, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Operations[edit]

  • I think every source going to findarticles.com is going off to a search.com page. These probably want to be fixed via the Wayback Machine if possible
I'm thinking this is probably only a temporary problem. Like a hacking issue or something?Farrtj (talk) 20:19, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to our own article on FindArticles, it's dead and gone. Hmm. Since this affects many more articles than this one, it probably warrants wider attention? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:56, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I see. The dastards! I will try to replace these sources. Fortunately I have access to Nexis.Farrtj (talk) 22:04, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, all three remaining Findarticle urls were easily replaceable with HighBeam ones.Farrtj (talk) 22:31, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed this sentence now.Farrtj (talk) 16:00, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • This source doesn't contain anything about trans fat-free soyabean oil
Yes, they seem to have changed that source very recently. Sorted now. Farrtj (talk) 16:21, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can you get a quote from this source regarding KFC spinning off US operations? I think the source is giving that general impression but I'm struggling to find something specific
Here it is, "Some believe he [Novak] would like to boost the U.S. operation to sell it off and exit the market." I don't know how to add the quote to the reference however. Farrtj (talk) 16:26, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry about it - as long as the quote's in there, it's verifiable, so that's okay. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:06, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

United Kingdom and Ireland[edit]

  • I can't obviously see which bits of this source are citing the first sentence in this section, or quite a few bits in the rest of the paragraph too. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the UK. This source does contain some of the information needed to cite this area
Yes, I've corrected that now.Farrtj (talk) 18:10, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can you put more context on the source ""Colonel Harland Sanders: From Corbin to the World". BUCKET 22. 1980."
Done.Farrtj (talk) 17:52, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is.Farrtj (talk) 20:23, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

China[edit]

  • Can you get a web link for the source ""Yum investigates poultry allegations". Financial Times."? Particularly since it's citing a controversial fact
No, it seems that it was only available in the print edition. I found it on Nexis, which archives the print editions. You can't link to a Nexis article online.Farrtj (talk) 22:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Products[edit]

  • This source claims the "original recipie" was only known by Sanders, his wife and Jack C Massey, but the article claims Pete Harman also knew it.
Pete Harman and his wife do know it, but I can't find the reference at the moment, so for now, I'll remove reference to Harman and his wife.Farrtj (talk) 22:49, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The source "According to a profile of KFC done by the Food Network television show Unwrapped." probably wants to be converted to Template:Cite episode
  • The quote from Allen Adamson needs to be attributed to a source
Done.Farrtj (talk) 15:56, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Unwrapped, Food Network" needs more context as to what sort of source it is
  • This source doesn't cite that you can get a KFC Salmon burger in Japan. (Sounds like an interesting thing to try, actually)

That's all the article. Just a few comments on images to come and that'll be it. --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:28, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

  • Can you check the copyright status of File:Sanders 20.png? Somebody appears to have vandalised it, the source for the image is a dead link, and we only have an assertion that the photograph was taken before 1923, when Sanders was 33, not actual proof that it was. (I believe questions like this have come up against RfA candidates, so while complex, we do want to make sure things are absolutely correct).
I have sourced it to an official Pinterest page operated by KFC USA, who state that the photograph was taken in 1914.Farrtj (talk) 15:53, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorted.Farrtj (talk) 23:50, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Will it be okay if I crop the watermark out? Either way, I think it would be absurd not to have a photo of Sanders in his white suit on the KFC page, as that's how he dressed to promote the chain for most of his life. Frankly, he's their mascot, and has been since he started the franchise in 1952.Farrtj (talk) 23:47, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, if the image is licenced CC-BY-SA (which it is), that means you are free to edit it however you wish, including removing the watermark. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:19, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorted.Farrtj (talk) 15:04, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've asked Media Copyright Questions, and they believe it shouldn't be there unless the logo is explicitly being discussed.Farrtj (talk) 15:53, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Checklist[edit]

Taking all the above comments, putting them into the checklist gives us

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

I don't think there's any reason to quickfail, so I'm putting this On hold. I'm hungry now - I may nip to the local KFC. --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:42, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Map update[edit]

Can someone update the map showing the list of countries with a KFC restaurant and add Argentina? Since the first store is scheduled to open in Buenos Aires on January 21, 2013, and it was recently confirmed on its official facebook page ( http://www.facebook.com/KFCArgentina ; Spanish). Thank you. --Gonzaloges (talk) 16:06, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I never figured out how to add countries in blue on that map. The map is listing a good number of countries: all the ones I have listed here are fully referenced. [1] Farrtj (talk) 17:14, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pass[edit]

Everything's been done, so I'm pleased to announce the review is a pass. Well done. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:08, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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