This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rock music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Rock music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Rock musicWikipedia:WikiProject Rock musicTemplate:WikiProject Rock musicRock music articles
According to OTRS volunteer JzG, this is a challenge from someone with personal knowledge. So we're using Barnard2009 to stand alongside Larkin1998 and Joynson1998, to support content that states what the band members say about themselves, on the presumption that Barnard, even though (apparently) self-published, has no reason to falsify what the interviewees said about this particular issue. Uncle G (talk) 20:15, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Notwithstanding my (and Wikipedia's) preference for reliable independent secondary sources, in matters of no great import such as this there is no reason why we should disbelieve the participants, especially as their version is, if anything, more prosaic. I have long-term questions over AMG as a reference. I believe that at least some content there is self-sourced or user sourced; many bands of no obvious significance claim a listing there as evidence of their notability but the sole content in such cases is sleeve notes which of course are entirely self-sourced. It is not clear to me where the mistakes in the sourcing started and the apparent failure of the sources to cite their own sources in turn does not really help. Guy (Help!) 21:01, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that although the Jason Barnard interview doesn't, strictly speaking, meet the requirements for reliable sources as laid out at WP:V (it's essentially a private blog and a self-published source), there's no reason to doubt it's validity or accuracy. Self-published, blog-like sources like this can often be a goldmine of well-researched information regarding the more obscure sixties bands such as July, and as JzG points out, there is no reason not to believe what the band members say in this interview. I've made a few edits to the article that expand on the history of The Dreamers/The Tomcats and their influences, using the Strange Brew interview as a source, and I've also made edits to better reflect the specific concerns that the person associated with the band had (as seen here). I also removed the Alan James/Cat Stevens sentence because although it is sourced, it is contentious and I don’t believe that its removal adversely effects a reader's understanding of the band's history in any major way.
As an aside, I would dispute the above claim that Allmusic is an unreliable source. Yes, it does contain errors but these are extremely rare and besides, what encyclopedia doesn't have at least some errors? Also, regarding some of its content being self-sourced, I'm dubious of this myself. Yes, the website does allow members of the public to submit corrections to their content, but these submissions are first checked by the Allmusic staff and in my experience, submissions from the public are almost always ignored and do not end up on the site. In addition, let's not forget that a great many well respected authors, journalists and music historians write for the website. Though it certainly has its flaws, I don't think that there is a more reliable and more comprehensive music source anywhere. Anyway, I'm not really wanting to get embroiled in a discussion about the Allmusic guide's merits or lack thereof, but I did just want to take the time to put forth an alternate point of view. :-)
By the way, do you guys think that we should transclude the original discussion about this article and it’s OTRS ticket from JzG's talk page to here? --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 13:37, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
From my understanding, back then there was really another bassist called Alan James who used to play with Cat Stevens but the bassist of July, Alan James so clearly stated that it was not himself. Sources mentioning about it must have clearly avoided the fact that there could be two bassists having the same name. I agree with the removal of the fact that "Alan James" played with Cat Stevens since it really doesn't change the band's history. ~ Elitropia (talk) 14:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
