Talk:Judgement (VNV Nation album)

Definition of No encyclopedic value

User:Hotdoglives did three reversals of content that was taken from the booklet of the CD and posted to the article. See the revisions.

• 2007-04-19T01:44:58 Hotdoglives(Undid revision 124034218 by Matharvest (talk) No encyclopedic significance to the album- discuss on talkpage if you disagree)

• 2007-04-17T01:10:35 Hotdoglives(Undid revision 123454788 by Cumbrowski (talk) No encyclopedic value- not everything from the booklet needs to be included)

• 2007-04-16T16:27:48 Hotdoglives 123292088

"No encyclopedic value" as in "importance" is the argument. By that (importance) standard would any article about the details of any album be of no encyclopedic value, with a few exceptions, if the album is connected directly to something else that has encyclopedic value. Importance is subjective and Wikipedia does not try to be exactly that. Wikipedia does also not have to worry about growing so much content that they can't make a print version out of it that would be bought by anybody.

Those are reasons for the Encyclopedia Britannica or the German Brockhaus to filter out what their editors deem to be irrelevant for the mainstream encyclopedia buyer. The details provided in the cases above may seem of "No encyclopedic value" to you, but it is an interesting detail, which is of value for others, such as fans of the band who would like to know more about the personal side of an artist and not just the music itself. Furthermore get information like this, often lost in time and turn out to be important at a much later time when it is too late. The only reference possible then would be un-encyclopedic, because it would be a reference that is based of "hearsay" or an eyewitness who's reliability might be impossible to establish.

I would not have taken the time to enter by hand all those details into the article, if I would think otherwise and I hope that you might change your view on this after you read my argument. I won't start a "fight" over this, metaphorical speaking, because it is not worth to spent time and energy on it. It would only be sad. It might not be important today, but may be in the distant future. Who knows. I am not so confident to be able to state with absolute certainty that something is not and will never be important. Some other people are, for whatever reason. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 16:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to type up your opinion on the subject. First of all, I'm trying to be objective as possible, as I always try to be when editing Wikipedia. If the booklet had mentioned a specific brand of coffee, or made a reference to it in one of their songs, then it would make more sense to include it in the article (although that would even be debatable). However, since it doesn't have anything to do with their music, and doesn't make a reference to a particular company, I don't think it's worth including. I don't see how that statement would be more significant for inclusion in the article than if they had just wrote "I like coffee!!"- obviously, something that wouldn't get put into the article.

Also, I don't agree with your point about the information becoming "lost to time." It's printed in the booklet, and is a widely available album. If someone wants to learn more about the band they like, then they should buy the album. If something trivial like that is included in the article, why not scan in the entire booklet? (Which, of course, is not allowed on Wikipedia, but that's not the point.)

For all album articles, and all Wikipedia articles in general, there is going to be some information that doesn't need to be included. I personally see the statement in question to be the least significant information that you could possible include in the article. I just think the article should be filled with content such as the style of the music, the equipment/personnel involved, where it gets its influences, how it evolves from the sound of previous VNV albums, etc. Does that make sense? --Hotdoglives 02:29, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment thanks for your comments. I want to make sure that I don't want to debate about those specific few lines of text of this booklet, rather than discuss it from a more general point of view (as you also did).

The reference was added to the booklet by the artist for a reason. This can be very personal to attempts to be funny. In some cases could that detail already be relevant to people in the present (due to it's personal nature) The possible future value of the information is hard to impossible to determine.

How hard it is to preserve things is shown here [1]. Even information in digital format don't last forever, if not preserved when possible and than carried from one digital media to the next. See the following projects that try to do now what was forgotten to do not too long ago [2] [3] [4].

I believe that Wikipedia is also a preserver of information. Maybe not in its original format, but original meaning, unbiased, unskewed, just collected and saved in an ordered system for anybody to access.

p.s. Ronan (VNV Nation) seems to get a bit softer. The music itself reflects that and that he names his coffee machine after a girl. :) just kidding. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 10:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:VNV Judgement cover.jpg

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BetacommandBot 16:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

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