Talk:John McPherson (footballer, born 1868)

International Caps

The profile rightly says that the player gained 9 caps but favours telling the reader about only those he scored a goal in. I am not sure if this is how Wiki wishes to prioritise information when it can easily add the full list of international games he played in giving a fuller profile of this part of his life.

Secondly, a photograph would be welcomed and their are a few very good face pictures publically available from the SFA, Rangers plc or a number of other publications. I dont know what the policy/process of adding these, if this could be answered.

Bruce Murdoch (Great grandchild of John McPherson) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.237.157 (talk) 20:02, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Relationships

I am yet to be convinced, that son James was player with Kilmarnock, etc. He might have just been trainer there before moving to Newcastle United, or not his son. I am also not convinced that the son of this James (the Kilmarnock and Newcastle trainer) was the coach in Norway, the Netherlands and of Bayern: It might just have been a different James. S. eg.: Alex Jackson: That Prince of Speed Raisers’: James Q. McPherson and former Pedestrians as Association Football Trainers in the 1900s, Playing Pasts, 21/05/2020. Cheers, Oalexander (talk) 16:34, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

@Oalexander: Hi, I've had a good look at this today (I added the stuff about one big family from the Daily Record ref (currently #1) which all seemed fine, but your link above made me doubtful as I can see the level of detail that has gone into it. Then I also found this: The "Killy" McPhersons & Watt on a site I've visited previously which also delves deep into the players' back stories. It shares your concerns about the Kilmarnock links, and I now concur with the findings. From my amateurish analysis, it appears that at some point, it has been assumed that the father of James Quar McPherson, also called James McPherson, was the same man who was father to John and David McPherson due to the proximity of ages, both being deceased prior to records which give some of their details, and links to Kilmarnock. But i haven't found any evidence that supports this actually being the case. Instead, it has become clear that there was another brother of John and David who was also named James, but was born James Adam. It is this elder brother who played for Cowlairs etc, while James Quar McPherson was no relation, rather an athlete who became Kilmarnock trainer (and flourished due to his knowledge of fitness etc) at the same point as the brothers were playing there. So i am going to separate the 'branches' with a note to that effect.

However, on the second point of query, whether Jim McPherson of Norway/Vitesse/Bayern is the same as James Quar Mcpherson Jnr of Newcastle, i do believe they are the same man. I have seen some photos of James in a family context on Ancestry (so no doubt him as added by relatives - though those records unfortunately also include the assertion that their ancestors are related to John Kitey McPherson etc, but again nothing to demonstrate that beyond the assumption without documentation that the same James Mcpherson is the father of both Quar and Kitey [and James Adam - only a few rare egoists would name two different sons after themself even if it were to different mothers in different towns!]), and though pretty low quality and from different decades, there is nothing i have seen which makes me think its someone different to the guy pictured in labelled photos on these pages with the Norway squad. Also the dates etc all basically fit with the idea of him learning the trade under his father, doing some work abroad - while barely older than the players he was instructing, as you can see in the Norway photos - then taking on the Newcastle job when it became available. And Robert also followed in the footsteps of his father and brother. So while i don't have the documents to hand that prove they are all the same man, I haven't found anything that spoils that idea and the pieces seem to fit. I definitely welcome any other info you may have on this. Crowsus (talk) 23:49, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

@Crowsus: I very much appreciate the detail with which you have responded to my remarks. I came to agree with you with regards to James Quar McPherson II. Your information, as incorrect as it may have been to some extent, provided important pointers that have enabled me to create a rich enough article on James Quar McPherson II for the German Wikipedia, where he was one of the few Bayern managers still without article. In my further research I stumbled on a few items which may be of interest to you an which might be new to you:

• 'De Corinthian; Maandblad voor Amateursport jrg 2, 1925, no 5, 01-05-1925
• De revue der sporten jrg 25, 1931, no 4, 31-08-1931
• Haagsche Courant, 24-12-1931

The last one shows that "Mac" left around X-Mass 1931 for Dutch East India (planned was initially about a year or so earlier).

If you move your cursor around the image, you might see a field "Tekst" appearing on the right edge. You then can copy OCRd text into Google translate. There you might need to join broken up words and remove carriage returns for better results. Thank you very much and cheers, Oalexander (talk) 14:47, 8 September 2020 (UTC)