Talk:John Cheyne, Baron Cheyne

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Confusion of different Cheynes[edit]

The article used to contain the following two claims:-

  • He inherited some land from the his father's widow in a contested will[1], but which did not include Chenies Manor House which his father had built[2].
  • He died without issue leaving his lands to his nephew, Thomas Cheyne[3].

These claims were challenged as follows and were subsequently moved to this section as a result:PeterEastern (talk) 05:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There was no connection between any of the several Kent/Sussex/Berkshire families called Cheyne and those two (also not related) families called Cheyne in Bucks. Sir John Cheyne of Drayton Beauchamp, suspected of Lollardy 1414, and arrested again in 1430/1, and possibly again in 1447 as an adherent of Humphrey of Gloucester, died in 1468. His blood heirs were the descendants of his brother Thomas, esquire, latterly of Chesham Bois. The Drayton Beauchamp Sir John acquired Chenies by purchase. Earlier in the 15C it had belonged to an older family called Cheyne who sold up under financial stress: they were not identifiable kin of the new owners. However, Sir John's second wife prevented Thomas's line from succeeding to Chenies, passing it along kin of her own and so to the Russells. The Chesham Bois Cheynes contested this right through to the 1560s and eventually, after arbitration, were awarded a large sum in compensation and settlement of the issue. The Drayton Beauchamp family seem to have been heirs of Roger Cheyne of Cassington, Oxford, and possibly of the most famous Sir John Cheyne (d. 1414) of Beckford, Gloucs. (q.v.), who was at least very sympathetic to Lollardy and was elected speaker of the house of commons, but stood down, in 1399. Even accounts of the various families and namesakes in highly reputable biographical publications such as the VCH, old and new late-medieval vols. of History of Parliament or OxDNB, not to mention current literature from Chenies itself, are beset with errors and misidentifications and should be treated with extreme caution. Medievalduck

  • I am still confused! Are you saying that this John Cheyne is from one of the Kent/Sussex/Berkshire families and therefore completely unrelated to the various Buckinghamshire Cheynes? If so then other references to these Cheynes in the article should be removed. Could you also review the information on the other Buckingham Cheyne related articles, for example for Chenies, Chenies Manor House and see if there are any other errors.

References

  1. ^ "Ann Semark". Retrieved 2008-09-13.
  2. ^ "Chenies Manor House website". Retrieved 2007-12-31.
  3. ^ Cite error: The named reference roots1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

Estimated Height[edit]

I am raising a citation need concerning his estimated height. It would also be helpful to make known when the discovery and measurement of his thighbone took place. This gives Cheyne a potential pre-20th century claim for record as tallest member of the English Parliament. The claim is interesting considering his likely age (nearly 60) and height by mediaeval standards. Cloptonson (talk) 22:27, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have been able to give a citation, to the article by David Nash Ford, which showed the discovery at which time the analysis was made took place in the 18th century since which time techniques may have well changed.Cloptonson (talk) 20:51, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Correct coat of arms[edit]

Hello, I have a question regarding the correct blazon for Sir John Cheyne. Do we have any reliable source for this, or is it just based on him being a second son? We cannot just assign a crescent as difference to him in this case because the system of cadency was not set in stone at the end of the 15th century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SirWilliamGold (talk • contribs) 16:11, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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