Talk:Jiang Zemin/Archive 1

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Whitewash?

An entire page on this man and NOBODY mentions the hundreds of thousands of allegations of torture and murder overseen by this man? What the hell is going on? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibcteam (talk • contribs) 06:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Советский Союз занимает особое место в политической биографии Цзян Цзэминя.
В 50-е годы Цзян стажировался в СССР на автозаводе имени Сталина. Цзян владел русским, знал пословицы и поговорки, пел песни 40-50-х годов. В 90-х он уже в ранге генсека китайской компартии посетил Москву. И, наконец, в 1998 году состоялась первая в истории китайской дипломатии «встреча без галстуков». В первую очередь он встретился с теми людьми, с кем в 1955 году работал на ЗИСе.
В 1997 году, подписав с президентом Ельциным документ о мироустройстве в XXI веке и многополюсном мире, основанном на равноправном сотрудничестве, а не на противостоянии блоков, Цзян Цзэминь отправился в Ясную Поляну: он давно мечтал побывать в усадьбе любимого писателя. Председатель попросил российских хозяев не читать ему лекции о Толстом, произведения которого он прекрасно знает. Его влекли философские основы творчества классика. Цйфыву (talk) 13:45, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Male Prostitute

I find the claim that Jiang Zemin did a brief stint as a male prostitute highly unlikely. I threw on a "citation needed" tag in the interest of (extreme) fair-mindedness.

Tiananmen Massacre

The text says that Jiang wasn't directly involved in the Tiananmen Massacre, and (on the text about the Tiananmen Massacre it says) he was chosen for chairmen of the party because of his involvement in suppressing other demonstartions.

Putting it this way isn't quite true...

A Chinese friend of mine, once explained it to me like this:

At the time of the Tiananmen Massacre there where two powers: Deng and Zhao. Deng wanted to supress the students and Zhao was supporting them. Yet only Deng had an Army. But Zhao had a supporter who had an army. But at that time this army was in America.

So they ordered the army to come back so that Zhao could prevent Deng from launching his army at the students.

Now that is where Jiang Zemin comes in: Jiang was the head of Shanghai at that time... So Jiang and Deng and another guy get like to gether and plan what they can do. So when the airplane with Zhao's army comes back... the army doesn't belong to Deng, yet the airplane does... so they order that airplane to fly to Shanghai instead of Beijing... saying there would be some emergency or something in Shanghai...

And so Jiang keeps them in Shangai for more than a week so as to make it possible for Deng's army to massacre those students.

Also at the time shortly before the massacre in Beijing Jiang travels to Beijing as well.

As to who gave the order to shoot the students... whether it was Jiang or Deng... this I do not know.

Bu his involvement and his deeds at the time of the massacre... where what made Deng choose Jiang for chairmen.

So saying that Jiang wasn't involved in the Tiananmen Massacre, but only in other massacres is defintily wrong.

So of course afterwards they covered it up... Zhao got removed and Jiang took his post.

Still in China they try to cover up the massacre... or if you go to the Chinese Embassy, and ask them about the massacre or any other suppression that is NOW going on in China... they will simply tell you that it doesn't exist, never has existed, and that those are all just lies made up by people who are trying to overthrow Communism or something (-:

In response to the above
1) Deng was commander in chief of all Chinese armed services
2) Most local and provincial commanders of Police, Armed Police (think national guard), and Army garrisons refused the order to move against students, not out of support for Zhao but out of principle.
3) Regiments finally sent into Beijing were from out of province
4) If you go to any US Embassy around the world for a visa, they will grill you like a potential terrorist. If you inquire about US war atrocities in Iraq, they will have marines escort you out.

16 Party Congress

I updated the Jiang entry to cover the recent developments at the 16th Party Congress

172


Spoken language

I fixed the chart that referred to Jiang as Deng's as "Party leader." In the post-Mao period, Deng Xiaoping never held the post of Party "leadership." The chairmanship had been abolished upon the downfall of Hua Guofeng and Deng wielded power informally, having his protégés anointed as Party Secretaries. Deng was the "core" of the "second generation," while first Hu Yaobang, then Zhao Ziyang, and finally Jiang Zemin nominally held the highest Party posts. 172 03:44, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Any personal things? Colipon 04:21, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)
"A communist leader...fluent in Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Romanian, French and English" I don't know if this is actually true. Maybe he know some vocabulary in these languages but one cannot say that he is fluent in all of them... Colipon 04:23, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Russian is certain. He received his higher education in economics in Moscow. In addition, Chinese Communist cadres of his generation who started rising up CPC ranks in the late '40s and '50s learned Russian in droves, as Russia was the PRC's principal source of technology and industrial equipment at the time. Also more than willing to show off that he's well-versed in famous works of Western literature, he is known to quote Tolstoy, Pushkin, Chekhov and Turgenev. Romanian is certain as well, which can be verified by reading up on his record as an ambassador to Romania - a key Chinese ally at the time (during the high tide of the Cultural Revolution). Ceausescu, of course, was a maverick in the Warsaw Pact, condemning Soviet intervention in Czechoslovakia in '68; reaching out to the West for trade and diplomatic ties; courting Soviet rivals for leadership of international Communism, such as China and Albania; and later even developing close ties with Soviet foes, such as Israel. Chinese-Romanian ties were a high priority for both parties when Jiang was ambassador; so the accounts attesting to his proficiency in Romanian are believable. English, however, is a bit iffy. We've all heard him engage in small talk in English; cite English works, such as the US Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address, "Hamlet," novels by Mark Twain, and even Elvis Presley songs; and start off interviews in English. He hasn't been immersed in an English-speaking environment, as he has been immersed in Romanian- and Russian-speaking settings for a number of years. His French and Japanese are largely self-taught as well. Perhaps we could say "fluent" in Romanian and Russian; and capable of engaging foreign dignitaries with his grounding in Japanese, French, and English language and literature.
Anyhow, this is not really important. Biographies and profiles of Jiang just bring up these anecdotes to point out his eagerness to to show his familiarity with other cultures and their histories. His career, after all, has been heavily focused on deeping China's ties to foreign investors and its diplomatic ties. In fact, when he replaced the disgraced Zhao Ziyang in '89, he was seen as an acceptable public image for the PRC - not being linked to the unpleasantries of restoring socio-political stability in the aftermath of the Tiananmen crisis. But he was also well-known for his abilities to court foreigners in a friendly manner. As Mayor of Shanghai, the urbane and cosmopolitian cadre was ideally suited for for transforming Shanghai into the international commercial hub that it is today, luring a steady stream of venture capital from Hong Kong, Japan and the West. And during his 13 years in power as CPC chief and later President, Jiang's mission largely focused on helping open trade relations and spark China's rapid modernization and development.
Thus, it's not really important if he's able to able to function fully in Japanese and English, but that we're mentioning a well-known characteristic of his background and personality that was emphasized a great deal in PRC efforts to strenghten China's international standing. 172 01:45, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Just sort of wanted the accuracy into all encyclopedic topics. I say your suggestion of fluent in Romanian and Russian; and capable of engaging foreign dignitaries with his grounding in Japanese, French, and English language and literature. Colipon 20:00, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)


Early life

In the Background of Jiang Zemin, I don't know who add (now Nanjing University) after National Central University. I think we shuold not ignore his three years at Nanjing Central Univesity; but it's also not proper to indicate Nanjing Central University is now Nanjing University. So I'd like to delete it. The history of this university is very complex. Few people thoroughly know it.


During the war against Janpanese invasion, the Wang Ching-wei Goverment(汪精民政府) established Central University in Nanjing in 1940, with campus located in the fomer campus of University of Nanking (The campus of former Central University was changed to be the hospital for land forces during the period), and claimed to be the successor of Central University. The fact is that Central University had moved from Nanjing to Chongqing in 1937. Jiang Zemin, studied at Nanjing Central University from 1943 to 1945, not Chongqing Central University. Actually Nanjing Central University (1940-1945) and Chongqing Central University(Today's Nanjing University) are two universities (So in the resume of Jiang Zemin or his schoolmates, I think we should not ignore their year(s) at Nanjing Central Univesity; on the other hand, it's also not proper to indicate Nanjing Central University is now Nanjing University). In 1945 after Chiang Kai-shek Government((蒋介石政府) came back to Nanjing, the students of former Nanjing Central University (Wang Ching-wei Government) were admitted to enter Central University which moved bach from Chongqing, if they passed the entrance examination in 1946. Currently officially Nanjing University also admit the alumni of Nanjing Central University (1940-1945) and take them as its alumni. (From Talk:Nanjing University) Dictioner 03:35, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The main image of this article as of 20th Sept 2004 15:25 UTC is an image of Jiang Zemin, and the caption is: "President Jiang Zemin with his successor, Vice President Hu Jintao, in the background"

Should this be changed to account for the fact that Hu Jintao is now President? Perhaps something akin to:

"Former-President Jiang Zemin with his successor, Then-Vice President Hu Jintao, in the background" Hazzamon 15:25, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)


In the Hu Jintao discussion, it is mentioned that the picture of him in the Zhongshan suit ("Mao suit") is a doctored photo - it seems Jiang's is too. Since Mr Jiang is no longer CMC Chairman, I have changed his photo to one in a suit.

Jiang's Presidency

I think some actual stuff about Jiang's years as President is missing. It seems there is a sudden jump from his Ascendancy to the 16th Party Congress. Colipon+(T) 22:39, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Ok, after about six months I have finally done a rewrite of the article. The part about Taiwan definitely needs to be added. Colipon+(T) 07:15, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

His major evil deed.

He betrayed all Chinese and gave up the rights to take back the lands unfairly taken away by Russia. This is his major evil deed!

You betrayed all Wikipedians by making an idiotic comment like that. Colipon+(T) 03:19, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Kuhn Book

I am currently reading the RL Kuhn book. I think it's pretty biased. Any views? Colipon+(T) 07:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Persecution of Falun Gong

Not sure if this has been raised before, but there does not seem to be much information about Jiang and the persecution of Falun Gong. I was thinking that an appropriate comparison would be a biography of Hitler which only mentioned in passing that he was responsible for the Holocaust. This has become something of an important issue recently, particularly with the Canadian report about organ harvesting. The Olympics are coming up so maybe these issues, the CCP's evil deeds with regard to Falun Gong, will become more prominent. I would like to see a section about Jiang's initiation and role in the persecution of Falun Gong. I will start doing some research and check this board for responses and ideas about whether it is appropriate or has been tried before, etc. --Asdfg12345 01:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think the article should mention his ruthless persecution of Falun Gong. It is a human rights violation and amounts to genocide (considering that his government try to kill off a whole group). Wooyi 03:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
See Reductio ad Hitlerum, Biography of living persons, and undue weight. Considering the FLG issue and Jiang's involvement has not been largely explored by much third parties outside of the pro-PRC sources and pro-FLG sources, these allegations shall remain as such. And this is the wrong place to vent your personal opinion on how evil you think JZM is.--PCPP (talk) 16:46, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

falun Gong is such a new religion, that it has always looked like having been invented for having an organisation which enjoys the protection of a religion, but in reality it is an organisation with a large dissenters' layer. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:E49D:28AB:85EB:DE13 (talk) 03:22, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

The table should be wikified

The table in Jiang Zemin should be wikified. Yue Qi 16:28, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Citations

This article doesn't seem to do a very good job citing its sources. I see there is a bibliography at the end; while that's good, it doesn't tell us where to find sources for specific information in the article. I'm adding citation requests to various items in the article in the hopes we can improve this article per Wikipedia standards. Heimstern Läufer 19:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Your concern has been noted. I just added a lot of references. Colipon+(T) 23:35, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I saw, excellent work! The article already looks much better. There may still be more that needs to be done, but this is a substantial improvement. Heimstern Läufer 23:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Biography and Controversy

I was asked, anonymously, by the person who first posted this section to develop it. I've tried to do so adhering to NPOV, citing sources.

Incorrect date

In an encounter with a Hong Kong reporter in 2002 regarding the central government's apparent "imperial order" of supporting Tung Chee-hwa to seek a second term as Chief Executive of Hong Kong, Jiang branded the Hong Kong journalists infamously as "too simple, sometimes naive" in English.

This happened on Oct 27, 2000. Here's a news report covered that event from CNN, http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/east/10/27/china.hongkong.02/index.html

It says "page not found". Colipon+(Talk) 23:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

International law suits

There are more than one "international law suits" on Jiang Zemin, one is the Spain court, another is the Sydney court, plus USA court, Sweden court, plus others. I think this kind of law suits need to be mentioned in the article, because of the "High profileness".

Also, the power struggle between Jiang and Hu Jintao needs to be mentioned, because Jiang, as a retired "Old comrade", has a very strange but high profile appearence on center stage on the 60th anniversary of the People's Republic of China#Leaders. Arilang talk 23:17, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Like I said before, you're more than welcome to edit the body of the article. The suing is not particularly notable in my opinion... it's like saying George W. Bush can be sued for war crimes in a court located in Uganda just because people dislike him. Also, please avoid placing countless external links that are not directly relevant to the biography itself - and often inaccessible to the average reader, such as those links in Chinese. Colipon+(Talk) 02:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
The court case against Jiang Zemin is much more serious than saying George Bush being sued in a court located in Uganda
  1. It is not a court; there are many courts, the last count is about 20 plus.
  2. One important factor is the extradiction treaty signed by both the PRC and Spain. s:zh:中华人民共和国和西班牙王国引渡条约
  3. Apart of Jiang, other PRC top cats such as Bo Xilai, Luo Gan

Jia Qinglin are in the prosecution list. This is unprecedent in International politic, neither Nazi Germany, nor Imperial Japan had been treated like this. And never in 3000 plus years of Chinese history, Chinese government official had been charged by internation legal courts. This is a BIG deal. Arilang talk 03:32, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't see your point, considering that under these court systems, anyone, even world leaders, can be sued for anything. Even as recently, George W Bush was sued for crimes against humanity [1], but these cases are usually done for publicity reasons and are never followed up.--PCPP (talk) 17:17, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Why remove all the links

Some of these links are very usefull for average everyday readers -

Role in persecuting Falun Gong

Now this has been removed entirely. I think Epoch Times is an okay source, since they are the most vocal of critics. --Asdfg12345 23:22, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I will try to search for source other than Epoch Times, I remember seeing it somewhere. I read somewhere that the most hated GFW began as a 610 Office project. The Golden Shield Project are different from GFW. Arilang talk 04:31, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind using the Epoch Times as a source, to be honest, so long as we state that the Epoch Times is essentially a mouthpiece of Falun Gong, a group that obviously has an axe to grind with Jiang. I wrote some criticisms of Jiang earlier but editors came on here and told me that it was slander. I've grown more cautious because of BLP policies. But basically, we just have to cite sources, and give sources due weight. Colipon+(Talk) 04:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
What about scholars such as David Ownby? I agree Epoch Times is an fringe source at best, and the usage would violate WP:BLP, just as we don't use Xinhua as a critical source of Li Hongzhi.--PCPP (talk) 17:21, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to use the Epoch Times, as long as we follow strict rules of WP:A. While some of the Epoch Times' criticisms of Jiang is outright slander, some of it is also reasonable and qualified. Plus there is no other big organizations that have been so adamant about criticizing Jiang - as such the fact that such criticism exists at all warrants mention in this article, IMHO. Colipon+(Talk) 17:40, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
This one definitely not a Falun Gong site:

Arilang talk 04:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

PCPP's destructive edits

Please stop deleting things you don't like, as with the recent attempt. --Asdfg12345 23:21, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Per WP:BLP, poorly sourced material in regards to living persons should be removed, especially considering the ruling is not likely to be carried out, as the article claims.--PCPP (talk) 14:50, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Could you please explain how the Reuters article is "poorly sourced"? What you just wrote makes no sense. Whether the ruling is likely to be carried out or not can be noted briefly. It has nothing to do with whether the information is poorly sourced or not. Please explain how it's supposed to be poorly sourced. I'll wait. —Zujine|talk 15:45, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Go do a google news search on Jiang Zemin that's not from FLG-affliated sources. I'll wait. And BLP states that any poorly sourced, questionable, or libelous material can be removed on sight. The article on George W Bush or Tony Blair does not have sources on the individuals trying to sue them for war crimes, so why should this article have one?--PCPP (talk) 15:58, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

What are you talking about? The material you removed is from Reuters. Is that a Falun Gong affiliated source? Further, if you look above, both Colipon and Arilang agree that it's notable. I'm going to revert you, just because no one else would, and just to show how you edit against consensus. --Asdfg12345 16:34, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Here asdfg admits his intention to edit war, I LOLed.--PCPP (talk) 17:19, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
You may have misunderstood. I did not mean to express that I intend to edit war. I meant that you have not explained at all why the information doesn't belong, and you are editing against consensus. I further stated that my assumption is that someone like Zujine is not readily going to revert you, even though I had thought that was the only thing you would listen to. But actually, that's useless too. You don't care if you are reverted, and you don't care if your explanations don't make sense, you don't care if you are editing against consensus. But back to the topic: can you please explain how the material is poorly sourced, questionable, or libelous?--Asdfg12345 08:42, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
[2] a news search on google showed no references of the supposed lawsuit, outside of the Epoch Times. And a google search on Judge Octavio Lamadrid [3] mostly FLG links, with the Reuters article being the only third-party news source. This is clearly a problem of notability and undue weight.--PCPP (talk) 12:07, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
How is there clearly a problem of notability and undue weight, when there are two reuters articles on it, copied to a number of media, and it's only one sentence? How is that undue weight, and a notability problem? And why did it stop being a BLP violation all of a sudden? It seems like you're changing tactics, just making up reasons to exclude the information. I don't think you believe half the stuff you say on here. --Asdfg12345 14:01, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Here are two reports: [4] [5]. Unlike a local LGBT newspaper, these are international media. Why don't you apply the same standards to your own stuff as you do others? --Asdfg12345 14:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Please stop lawyering. There's only the two articles on the supposed arrest warrant, the rest are simply unverifiable claims from Epoch Times and other FLG mouthpieces. The LGBT paper is notable because the SF board actually took FLG's stance on homosexuality into account when issuing a proclaimation on China's treatment of Falun Gong. An arrest warrant for a former world leader would have would need better sourcing than that, just as the George W Bush article doesn't contain random attempts to sue him by anti-war activists. Poorly sourced materials can be removed per BLP.--PCPP (talk) 14:12, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
"Poorly sourced materials can be removed per BLP" -- please explain: What is the problem with the source? --Asdfg12345 14:14, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Simple. It has no follow up, no significant media coverage, and is largely used by FLG as a publicity stunt.--PCPP (talk) 14:17, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Why does there not having yet been a follow-up make it poorly sourced? And why does how Falun Gong practitioners have "used" it make any difference? --Asdfg12345 14:23, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Yawn, I've left a notice regarding the issue on the BLP board [6]--PCPP (talk) 14:55, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi from the BLPN, there is a comment there from Guy, I agree with him also, this detail is notable for the F Gong article but not here as it gets undue weight, it is only symbolic and to add it here you would need to add explanatory detail of this and that and the whole report would be then excessive, feel free to comment there at the BLPN, perhaps wait and see if there are any notable developments, like interpol actually issuing an arrest warrant, they have been asked but as I see they have not issued one, thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 22:45, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps the most prudent course would be to await further developments or forms of argumentation. I do not think it is an issue of libel or BLP though, but one of notability/significance. —Zujine|talk 04:43, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Alleged Affair With Song Zuying

There have been long running allegations that Jiang Zemin carried on an affair with the traditional Chinese music songstress Song Zuying. Lu Jiaping published this allegation on his website, was placed under house arrest, but then released. Asia Sentinel also published an article referring to this alleged affair in the context of Vice-Admiral Wang Shouye's arrest for corruption - he was described as being the man who introduced them. Finally, the book "China's New Rulers: The Secret Files" describes Jiang's relationship with Song as being a romantic one. These references can be found here:

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=409&Itemid=31 http://184.73.187.38/media/doc/2010/02/09/china-new-ruler-chapter.pdf http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/1951.html

Am I okay to go ahead and edit the article to include these allegations? They're certainly relevant to the subject, to leave out this alleged affair, well known and much joked about across all of China at the time would be like leaving out Clinton's dalliance with Lewinsky, but it seems necessary to discuss this first given the history of edit wars on this page - I note that the page does not even have a 'personal life' section, which is inexcusable given this man's prominence. FOARP (talk) 16:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Rumours of Death

Please see [7] - it appears to be unlikely. The rumours themselves are notable though, I'd argue - and even if it's decided otherwise once things have calmed down, it will do some good for Wikipedia to be mentioning them as unlikely NOW while people are perhaps looking to it to see the truth. Egg Centric 10:39, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, just to be clear, why are you asserting that the rumors are "unlikely"? Death rumors around Jiang Zemin have circulated before, and should thus be regarded with caution, but it hardly seems unlikely that an 84-year-old might fall ill. The over-the-top response to the rumors, coupled with Jiang's conspicuous absence from 90 anniversary celebrations, suggest to me that there is at least a reasonable chance that there is some truth to these stories (if not about the death, then at least about his being in critical condition—something which several Hong Kong newspapers have asserted). Homunculus (duihua) 12:33, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
And to clarify, I do not have an opinion as to whether mention of these rumors should be included in the article. But if others choose to include them, we should not attempt to pass judgement on how likely or unlikely they are.Homunculus (duihua) 12:39, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
His death would certainly not be unlikely, and I woudl expect it any time soon. I just mean the source of the rumours is very very sketchy. I'm sure we'll know within 48 hours one way or another. Egg Centric 12:53, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
The last source I'd want to cite for this article would be The Epoch Times. There are plenty other sources available. Just saying. Blodance the Seeker 04:54, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 59.148.101.177, 6 July 2011

I request that the edit by Egg Centric on http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jiang_Zemin&action=history 14:36, 6 July 2011, be revoked. The user Egg Centric unjustly removed reference to news that Hong Kong broacaster ATV has reported the death of Jiang Zemin. The reference is supported by a video of the actual TV news broadcast.

59.148.101.177 (talk) 14:51, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

The info is already in the rumours section. Egg Centric 15:47, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
To clarify - I'm not saying *no* - I'm just pointing this out to you cause I don't think it would really make sense to put that trivia in the lead. If the rumours turn out to be untrue then it may be that even the rumours don't deserve to be in the article (but that is something we can revist in a few days). I have no objection to the article being in almost any form so long as it is coherent.... Egg Centric 16:17, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Not done for now: I believe that a rumor about his death should not be included in the lead paragraph, especially on a BLP I think we should air on the side of caution. Jnorton7558 (talk) 08:52, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
The claim that Jiang Zemin has died is circulating on Sina Weibo and lacks reliable sourcing.[8] Wikipedia would not report claims that Barack Obama had died on the basis of a tweet, especially after what happened a few days ago.[9]--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 11:28, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

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Persecution vs Suppression of Falun Gong

Persecution of Falun Gong seems to be the more commonly used term. A google search shows this. The article on wiki is called Persecution of Falun Gong not Suppression of Falun Gong.Aaabbb11 (talk) 09:22, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

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Neutrality of "Three Represents" Sub-Section

In the "Three Represents" sub-section, the theory is described in highly biased terms. To say that the theory pragmatically "justified" certain policies, and featured "euphemisms," means presenting the author's PoV on the theory, instead of letting it speak for itself. This section should be revised for balance and tact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C403:3480:91B2:6E8E:D61D:1A4F (talk) 17:25, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

If you see issues with the section, you're free to propose alternatives. I'm happy to work towards a more 'balanced' section. But please do not simply leave an accusation, tag the article, then leave. Offer some concrete suggestions. Colipon+(Talk) 19:25, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Joining the Communist Party

He claims that he joined the Communist Party of China when he was in college.[1]

Does anyone deny that he joined the party then? Surely the party would have records. The link appears to be dead.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:08, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Structure and Choice

Civil Wars such as in China cause documents to disappear or perish, or even being disappeared. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:E49D:28AB:85EB:DE13 (talk) 03:26, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

BLP noticeboard

{{BLP noticeboard}} I came here from the noticeboard. A few changes:

  1. I removed all refs pointing to falun gong owned media outlets as they are not reliable sources for anything, let alone BLPs.
  2. I removed any statement which these refs was supporting unless it was either supported by a reliable source or entirely non-controversial. However there's a to-do here to ensure that any biographical details now lacking a citation get one.
  3. I edited the section on the Falun Gong crackdown to more closely represent what is said at the sources. There's nothing at all about an expulsion; and regardless of what you think of this new religious movement or the response it got from China, what happened was not an expulsion, it was a crackdown or (to use more loaded language) a suppression. Furthermore, the source actually speaks to Jiang's motives. And that's some context which is important. He didn't wake up one day and say, "I'm going to crush a random religion today muahahaha." He reacted to fears that the FLG was trying to take over China, much as past millenarian movements had. Simonm223 (talk) 19:16, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Request for comment on referring to the leader of China in the Manual of Style

Please see this Manual of Style RfC on whether Jiang Zemin, Hu Jintao, and Xi Jinping should be referred to as "leader ___", "Paramount leader ___", "General Secretary ____", or "President ____". — MarkH21talk 03:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Current status

As of 2021, does Jiang continue to hold any measure of power or influence in China's communist power structure? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 21:23, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

@173.88.246.138: No. He's retired. - 祝好，Sinoam(聊天) 19:00, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Respect of Jiang Zemin

I still care and I will revere to learn about Chinese President Jiang Zemin. I have to improve communication in skills in Chinese languages and Chinese history. He will believe in me. And I believe him. This is drama. 72.69.243.12 (talk) 22:29, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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