Talk:Janelle Monáe/Archive 1

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Concerning speedy deletion

This artist is featured on OutKast's new album and is releasing a new album, She seems to be an up and comming artist that would deserve a mention in wikipedia. Theres was also a dead link to her name on the purple ribbon entertainment page Purple_Label —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Josh thompson (talk • contribs) .

Possible copyright violation

Errr, you cant really just copy the bio from her website.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Josh thompson (talk • contribs) .

Awful bio

Obviously a hatchet job from a press release and totally biased. Bad grammar, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.66.80.133 (talk) 17:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Opening revert

As a minor note, I reverted the recent rewrite of the opening line. The original rewrite was under the claim that "...who was nominated for a Grammy award" was more neutral compared to "Grammy award-nominated..." I reverted it because placing it afterward makes it a description that takes on more meaning since it is alone. It appears to provide greater emphasis that additional importance of note is that she was Grammy award-nominated. Keeping it within the list of adjectives in the beginning makes it only one descriptor of many ("Grammy nominated, American soul singer") and is arguably the more neutral of the two. Feel free to discuss.Luminum (talk) 20:43, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Stub?

This looks to me as already fully-developed for an artist of Monae's standing. I believe the Stub categorization should by now be removed. If anyone objects, feel free to restore it. -- Nahum (talk) 02:39, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

misinterpreted comment

The quoted comment in the "Biography" section in which Ms. Monae referred to "the Other" was linked to the page for a psych horror film of that name, when (to my mind, at least) the clear reference was to the psychological/philosophic concept of the constitutive Other. If there's some contextual basis for the original link, feel free to revert the change I made - for now it links to the philo page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.190.191.143 (talk) 06:01, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Metropolis

Where can I find "Metropolis" off her audition? It doesn't seem to be part of her album, extended play, or even a standalone single. --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:31, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Metropolis

The song "Metropolis" should be track #4 on her "Audition" album. The album itself is generally hard to find in order to purchase, but can be found online for download. --Jessisue (talk)

Orphaned references in Janelle Monáe

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Janelle Monáe's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "AUS":

From Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty: ARIA Top 50 Albums Chart – 19/07/2010. Australian Recording Industry Association. Retrieved on 2010-07-19.
From Outkast discography: "australian-charts.com - Australian charts portal". Hung Medien. Retrieved December 21, 2010.
From Lupe Fiasco discography: "Discography Lupe Fiasco". australian-charts.com. Hung Medien. Retrieved 18 April, 2011. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
From Janelle Monáe discography: "Discography Janelle Monáe". australian-charts.com. Hung Medien. Retrieved February 26, 2012. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |work= (help)

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 16:56, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

The audition

I've noticed that the unofficial album and true debut "The audition", for which I'd created a separate page, has been removed altogether from this article. Clearly, wikipedia police are interested in disinforming the world. The album exists, it was self produced, not released through a major, but it was a self contained body of work with strong musical and lyrical references to her later "official" albums.

I'm not going to repeat the effort of noting down all information about that album. Wikipedia can continue to pretend it does not exist and disinform potential fans, who will likely turn to other, more complete sources about this artist.

It continues to defy me why carefully assembled information would be removed. I could agree it does not merit a separate page, but at least it should be in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.78.35.195 (talk) 10:25, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Both years, 1982 and 1985, appear in the profile now. You have to clean that up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.55.41.185 (talk) 15:13, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

year of birth

i have a source that states she was born in 1982....1 December 1982. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.49.233.42 (talk) 11:36, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Good for you. Are you thinking of sharing it with us? It needs to be a reliable published source, like this one - which says 1985. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

She stated on Instagram that she is born on 1 December, at 12:01 am, not naming a year. She stated on Twitter that she has Moon in Gemini [1]. That is only possible for 1 December 1982. With 1 December 1985 she would have Moon in Cancer. Aloist (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:51, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

I don't think that statements on Instagram about her astrological profile are likely to be regarded as reliable sources. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:32, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

I was referring to her own statement. Actresses or singers may have legitimate reasons to disguise the truth about their age. But then they should better be secretive about their astrological configurations. Aloist (talk) 10:45, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

By the way, the Allmusic biography cited as source of birth date in the main article no longer mentions any date of birth. That 'source' has gone away. What remains are her own statements about her date (1 December) and the year deduced from her statement about the Moon position at her birth (1982).Aloist (talk) 10:55, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

There are multiple other reliable sources that give her birth year as 1985. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:37, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

In none of the sources I have seen she says herself 'I am born in 1985'. What I have seen is that she said 'I am born on 1 December just after midnight' and 'I have Moon in Gemini'. That leaves only 1 December 1982 as a possible date of birth. Aloist (talk) 23:40, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Original astrological calculations are not notable in any way, shape, or form. This is an encyclopedia that relies on notable and factual articles and written media, not some abstract decipherings of statements about gemini moons. Rcul4u998 (talk) 01:03, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

It is an astronomical (science) fact that the planets and our moon move in predictable paths and occupy predictable positions relative to other bodies in space, from our view on Earth. Computer programs can reliably chart these positions well into the past or future. Janelle Monae has publicly claimed that at the time of her birth, the Moon was positioned within the parameters of the Tropical Zodiac sign Gemini. User:Aloist has informed you of the only possible dates for which this statement of fact by Monae herself, fits. The 1982 birth year would also best match her year of H.S. graduation, as stated on her high school's web page: https://kckps.org/about-us/reasons-to-believe/previous-reasons-to-believe-honorees/janelle-monae/ Unless Monae graduated early, at 15 years old (for the 1985 birthdate). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:CF00:410:5822:BF4A:14EB:C987 (talk) 05:54, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

OK. A couple of points. Firstly, it's commonplace for people in the entertainment industry to knock a year or two off their ages for whatever reason. Secondly, what is stated in Wikipedia should be based on published reliable sources. Thirdly, we should place absolutely no reliance on interpretations of purported astrological calculations. But having said that, there are one or two points in her biography that might suggest that a 1985 birth year is... unlikely. Her school site here states that she graduated in 2001, before going to New York City and then Atlanta. There are many reliable sources that state that she was in Atlanta in 2001, and statements like this:

After graduating from high school, she received a scholarship to study musical theater at the American Musical and Dramatic Academy in New York City where she was the only black woman in her class. After leaving the academy, Monae moved to Atlanta, Georgia, where she worked at Office Depot. She self-produced a demo CD entitled Janelle Monae: The Audition and toured local colleges where she promoted her music and performed. On one tour, Monae met Chuck Lighting and Nate Wonder, two established and promising songwriters. The trio founded the Wondaland Arts Society record label in 2001 when Monae was sixteen.

I don't know whether that timeline is plausible or not - it's quite a lot to have achieved by the age of 16, but it's in a reliable source so it's not up to us to question it. I do know that there are no reliable sources that give her birth year as 1982, and many that state it as 1985. I can't find any official birth records under her name. But I think it's fair for editors to question her birth year and - if and only if this issue is discussed publicly - to consider whether a footnote might be appropriate. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:15, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Familysearch.org gives birth of Janelle Robinson as 1 December 1982: "United States Public Records, 1970-2009," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJW2-BH27 : 23 May 2014), Janelle Robinson, Residence, Kansas City, Kansas, United States; a third party aggregator of publicly available information.

This should be sufficient to update the date of birth in the main article.Aloist (talk) 08:24, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Personally, I agree that that would be very strong evidence, which should be mentioned in a footnote, explaining that it appears to conflict with published biographical information. Others might claim that we should not be relying on a primary source, especially in a BLP. Unfortunately, I can't see that record as it's behind a paywall, and so far as I can tell it's not on Ancestry, to which I do have access. Have you managed to find that information anywhere else, in a publicly accessible source? I've undone your change as it needs further discussion - probably best at WT:BLP. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:00, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

And, here, if you need another: I cannot see how this info, & this source, could be questionable at all: https://blog.thecurrent.org/2018/05/this-is-janelle-monaes-third-grade-photo-from-her-time-at-minneapoliss-hale-elementary-school/ That page also links to a page with the interview where she speaks about attending Hale Elementary School. There is a school year stated below the yearbook image of her in the 3rd grade (when kids are 8-9 years old between September-June), and the image itself was supplied by Hale Elementary. (Also a teacher is quoted on the grade & school year.) You do the math. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:CF00:410:5822:BF4A:14EB:C987 (talk) 11:19, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

It's "questionable" because it conflicts with the reliable published sources that we use (including, still, Allmusic here) which state explicitly that she was born in 1985 - and it is not our job to search out the truth, or "do the math". Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:56, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Your claims are false. The Allmusic biography does NOT contain any date of birth. It may have done once, but apparently that was withdrawn from it. The site Familysearch.org has no paywall, it only requires registration. It is free, maintained by the Mormon church which seems to have an interest in helping people find ancestors. Your other 'reliable sources' are just copies of WP information, it seems. Aloist (talk) 13:24, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm looking at the Allmusic site right now, and it states that she was born December 1, 1985 in Kansas City, KS - in the box on the right hand side on my screen. It's very unlikely that all the other sites got their info from here - in any case, we can't assume that. Anyway, if you want to pursue this - as we're clearly not going to agree here - I suggest you raise it at WT:BLP. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:32, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

If you are happy accepting PR material (Allmusic is not better than that) over primary sources from actual research, so be it. I am sure we are right with our deduction. Aloist (talk) 20:10, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm convinced by the third-grade photo supported by the familysearch data and the moon position reported via official twitter. We should tell the reader both dates, 1985 and 1982, pointing to the sources on each. Both years should appear in the first sentence. The infobox can hold both years or neither year, relying on the reader to get the information via prose in the article body. Binksternet (talk) 21:09, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I disagree. All reliable published secondary sources give her birth year as 1985. I cannot believe that "the moon position reported via official twitter" is even countenanced as a reliable source here. But, I would support a footnote stating that there is evidence that, in fact, she was born in 1982. Personally, I agree that it is overwhelmingly probable that she was born in 1982. But it's not my role, and not that of any other editors, to make that judgment when the sources on which we rely state differently. Essentially, it's original research. In some ways this is a situation similar to Laura Branigan, whose real birth year was kept hidden for years, when she was alive, and it was only after research was eventually published in reliable sources after her death that her birth year was corrected in our article. But Janelle Monae is very much alive, and in a BLP we should be extremely cautious in putting forward, as fact, a birth year that is unsupported by the secondary sources that we routinely deem to be reliable. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:22, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Have another bit of evidence: [for 2001, not 2003 year of graduation from Monae's high school, F.L. Schlagle H.S. in Kansas City, KS] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwu7RxvBEx4 The video is labeled with the graduation year in-vid; Janelle Monae is in the video; and there is a "Class of 2001" sign up on the wall (the "01" is just visible, at about the 1:00-1:01 minute mark, and at 5:54 a woman in attendance says "Class of 2001"). --Also, I understand that none of these links that I'm supplying are probably ever going to meet what I consider to be Wikipedia's nonsensical, lacking-in-common-sense standards, but you might as well keep them, because one day, when you DO edit her birth year to 1982 for good, you're going to need them. ;) You're welcome.2601:602:CF00:410:0:0:0:CCE9 (talk) 07:17, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

I have now found a publicly accessible people search site that lists Monae's age as 37 and year of birth as 1982, but I am uncomfortable posting the link here because it goes to the level of detail of current address and mobile phone numbers. I will be broad for now and say that the generic site is www.fastpeoplesearch.com - but I will not link to her actual entry, here. 2601:602:CF00:410:0:0:0:CCE9 (talk) 08:50, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Anyone wishing to pursue this question should raise it at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:19, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

This question has been posted and replied to at WP:BLPN#Janelle Monáe Zaereth (talk) 21:07, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

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Article Evaluation

There is only one line that mentions her sci-fi emotion picture companion to the Dirty Computer album. There is no other link to a page about the emotion picture, or any analysis of the film. Her new music imagery and style needs to be documented more in this article.

The queerness that is represented in her music is not talked about in her page. The word 'queer' is only used 4 times in the whole page. There is no analysis or description of the sci-fi emotion picture, or why it is referred to it as an 'emotion picture.'

The article is heavily baised on her career, with the second largest being her music styles, but it does not discuss Dirty Computer.

Her queerness is not talked a lot about within her artistry, with connection to her latest album/emotion picture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justineishere (talk • contribs) 21:58, 16 October 2018 (UTC)