Talk:Huddersfield/Archive 2

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Editing Talk:Huddersfield/Archive 2

Add a photograph of Huddersfield above the map?

The article needs a photograph of Huddersfield above the map to make it more lively and inviting to read.

Busiest bus station in West Yorkshire?

Surely not! One would assume Leeds or Bradford might beat Huddersfield with this... anyone care to back this up with any evidence?

Luddite activity in Hudd's/Colne Valley - annexed to main page? or snippets for villages?

I did have a fairly good locally-written book on Luddite activity in the Colne Valley kicking around, I'm sure, but it may be at the other end of the country, so in the interim if I need to get it posted up, any input, particularly consensus, on where it will best be sited - split up as nuggets in cross-referenced entries under the villages concerned or annexed to the main Huddersfield page - will be most welcome.

I have no worries that I can digest the main points without infringing copyright although, as the book itself may well have been out-of-print for at least a decade, there's the question of whether or not more would be more in this instance.

At this point I'm thinking along the lines of writing perhaps more than I think is strictly necessary and, without question, abiding by consensus regarding cuts people make.

Graphitus 02:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be better in the Colne Valley article, which is clearly in need of being expanded, whilst this one is becoming a bit too large. Also note the Luddite article page which has some good reference sources. Richard Harvey 01:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Rugby Union problems?

The section on Rugby Union on this page has a number of flaws. The date that rugby in the town was first played is incorrect and there is no "Huddersfield Rugby Club" and even if there was it wasn't founded then.

The first organised club in the town was the Huddersfield Athletic Club,no relation whatsoever to the current Huddersfield RUFC. In fact the HAC was a direct predecessor to the Huddersfield Giants.

Even allowing for these inaccuracies I would argue that the club is hardly a major force in Huddersfield's sporting culture - I can't see why rugby union would get a whole paragraph here when athletics for example does not (Longwood Harriers date back to 1888). I suggest that a new subsection of sport - "Other" is created to include a brief mention of rugby union, athletics and other sports with links to potential club pages.

Perhaps you should first take a look at this website, before doing anything:- [:http://www.huddersfieldrugby.com/history/history.htm]. Richard Harvey 11:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid it's inaccurate. The first "football" in the area was in 1848 - it would have been closer to rugby than soccer. Huddersfield RUFC was founded in 1909 not 1870. I think that the rugby match in 1866 they are refering to on that site would have been the first match played by the Huddersfield Giants, who were founded in 1864. In addition I would say that lifting the history section of that site wholesale is at best against the spirit of Wikipedia and at worst advertising or copyright theft.

Well I don't personally know enough about Rugby Union history to say either way. Luckily I do know someone who is, so I shall interrogate him when he comes back from France next week. I am 95% certain that I have seen documents showing it was played in the area around 1877, at club level. I would agree about your last comment on copyright, however you need to consider if it was taken from wikipedia to put on the clubs website not vice versa or if the person who did the editing was one and the same. I myself have originated articles on here and three other websites about the same item, the text being virtually identical. As the information was done by myself on all 3 websites then no copyright theft would exist. Where my text is first placed on here it can be used freely elswhere as it is licensed under [:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/uk/]. The sports section does need a good going through and I know User:BlueValour has a good knowledge of football and probably rugby as well. It may be a good idea to get a decent page worked up and then edited down to keep the page within wiki guidlines as it is getting rather large. Richard Harvey 20:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

There was certainly rugby played in 1877, at club level, in the town - but by then there had been rugby played in the town for a long time. But ignoring that, my real issue here is the prominence of rugby union in the sports section. Regardless of the veracity of the claims, rugby union in Huddersfield is not a major sport. It's important for sure, but it's not up there with football, rugby league or cricket. Similarly I can't see why motorsport gets a specific mention either. My solution would be to put (very) short sections on football, RL and cricket in the sports section and then mention athletics, swimming, rugby union, motorsports and anything else in an "Other Sports" subsection. I'm happy to help your friend and BlueValour to sort it out. --Srhmay 12:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

First off you will note I've amended your edit format, its standard to do it this way on wiki, to keep threads together. As is using colon's to split each post. My friend is not a wiki editor he's a former Player, at national level, Regrettably my other source Mike Campbell-Lamerton, passed away last year. Personally I see no reason why the two styles of rugby should not be merged, they do seem to repeat some details. I know we do have a couple of notable motorsport professionals, Motorcycles I believe? But then again Huddersfield has many other notable sports personalities as well. It could get messy if it ended up including too many sports IE:- swimming, athletics, show jumping and such, so perhaps a brief mention of them as an overall edit would suffice. As for cricket; There are less cricket clubs than there are bowling clubs and greens in the area? Maybe the solution of User:BlueValour in creating a Category for people from Huddersfield could be adapted and a Category:Sports clubs in Huddersfield could be created, which would allow a brief description to be given with a linkout to a seperate item. Theeby keeping the main bits to national participation events? Richard Harvey 15:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

By far the biggest and most important event in Huddersfield sport is the split between rugbies Union and League - this is also the most important event in the history of rugby. You might combine the RL and RU sections into one "Rugby" section and then you could mention the start of the original sport in the area, the split in 1895 and then the briefly the current status of each sport in the town. I think that would work.

As far as cricket goes, I would have thought that the Drakes League is of significant importance to warrant cricket a mention in it's own right here - I understand that the Huddersfield area has produced more 1st class cricketers than any other town in England. I know almost nothing about Bowling so can't comment on that with any authority.

Thanks for the editing tips.Srhmay 16:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Sports & Hobbies

I have just removed a section on fishing from the article. I think this would potentially create too large a section and thus an article. There are too may clubs for various sports and hobbies within the district. I have created a seperate page called 'List of clubs in Huddersfield' with a link from the 'See also' section. That list could then be split to contain the various sports and other clubs. Richard Harvey 08:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I fully understand this move. However, Wikipedia is not a Yellow Pages. Lists should, in principle, only include notable organisations that merit their own articles. If a club is not worthy of either its own article nor a mention here then it is not appropriate to a list. TerriersFan 23:41, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I see the list has been deleted, that was the risk with reverting the redirect. However, a list of clubs in Huddersfield would never survive an AfD - the problem being that it would be full of red links to non-notable clubs. At the moment this article is comfortably within recommended limits so there is still room for expansion of the sports/clubs. When a warning is given that the article is too big then that is the time to break out part of it into a sub-article. HTH TerriersFan 18:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Huddersfield Giants

An editor stated in an edit summary "Huddersfield Giants have technicaly won nothing as the current team only exist due to a merge". This is wrong. The official page (go here then click the Giants history link), shows a continuation of the club and Huddersfield Giants article confirms it was just a name change. This section is from the main article which is where any debate should take place if an editor disputes the continuity. BlueValour 03:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

You seem to have missed the controversial merger with Sheffield, which led to a joint Huddersfield-Sheffield team for a while. Most fans saw 'Shuddersfield' as a continuation of the old Huddersfield team and Sheffield was seen as having simply been closed down.

The previous editor IMO was correct in his assertion, whether this remark is worth including is another matter.GordyB 15:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Link not working

This link at the foot of the page has not been working for over a month

Message Board discussing issues of importance to Huddersfield residents

Jkettle

Interesting historic graphic to include somewhere

Hello all. I found this on a website promoting a book on vintage fireworks marques and wondered if it may be worth working into the town's entry somewhere. This is the URL for the enlarged version you get after clicking the thumbnail. It's a montage of a commercial artwork AND its original sketch, c. 1930s, for Standard Fireworks, clearly listing their address at Half Moon Street, Huddersfield in the original sketch.

http://www.firework-art.com/standard_bearer.htm

Graphitus 03:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Is it worth doing stuff about the industries of the town?

I'm aware that wiki is not supposed to be a repository for everything and, to my discredit, still haven't actualy sat down and worked through the style guide.

However I do recall some consensi from the primary school classrooms/dinnertables/playground. Like how Citroën cars were not particularly rated but Aston Martins were. I was unaware of the origins of the Aston Martin marque being an off-shoot of David Brown--presumably one strong reason calendar girl "Miss Huddersfield Tractors" was alluded to in the BBC sit-com "Waiting for God"; this was apparently broadcast by BBC North in their lunchtime, but not the evening, Look North feature on the new Aston Martin earlier this month.

Similarly, whilst wiki should preferably not be a ready-to-print essay on local geography that would get an A grade at GCSE, there is no mention of its fine Worsteds so far.

I'm in favour of some pie charts which illustrate how people have been employed in the recent decades of change in the infrastructure of the place. Otherwise I'm not sure simply saying we have an "engineering" history is sufficient. It's agricultural, electrical and mechanical engineering rather than, say, automotive, genetic and social engineering.

The article could do with beefing up to include the towns industrial heritage, but it should not turn into a virtual yellow pages listing of what is available. There are many article pages about individual industries, so rather than placing lengthy information about those industries on the Huddersfield article consider looking at those specific industries and mention the Huddersfield connection where appropriate. If you feel an industry specific to Huddersfield is worth a mention then you should consider doing an article about that as a separate entity in its own right. Such as [[1]]. Perhaps the Broadbent company could be a starter, not many people are aware that Broadbents, on Chapel Hill, was where the X class submarine used in world war 2 were built. Be careful about including industries such as Brook Crompton or standard Fireworks into the Huddersfield article as they would only get moved to the Brockholes and Crosland Moor articles, which is where the industries were / are based. Richard Harvey 06:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

some factual inaccuracies

Mrs Sunderland/Music festivals

IIRC the Mrs Sunderland music "festival" is actually a competition, with classes and prizes, and is also a kids', or young people's, thing. This is not clear from the article.

Click on the link to their website, shown in the paragraph, and you will be see more information. IE: this one:- [2] Richard Harvey 05:43, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Princess Royal

They may offer some basic advice on family planning but the impression I got from the article is that it's the place to go for assisted conception and the whole caboodle.

It isn't.

As I was one of those people who heard and read recently there is a shortage of egg and sperm donors I got pretty much straight down there. Both receptionists (a female and a male, respectively, taking the entrances from Greenhead Road moving down the hill toward town) were absolutely convinced it was the other reception I should be at and, to their discredit, neither seemed to have to communication skills, or should I say "professionalism", not to display quite acute discomfort at my request as who I should speak to about it. I kind of got the impression my very enquiry came under the heading "Too Much Information".

Subsequent enquiries made down other routes elicited that it's the Assisted Conception Unit at Calderdale (Savile Park) who handle this side of things these days--just in case anyone's interested but has been put off or otherwise discouraged. As I say, to say this is a service that is provided within a Trust which has been functioning for over four years now and had been raised to prominence in various media nationwide, you can't help wondering whether they actually want donors or not.

Nobody at the Kirklees Information Points could help either and I went away with an http address for some American outfit.

The article simply says 'Family Planning Consultation' How did you manage to interpret that as a sperm bank? Such services are specialised and not exactly within their remit. Richard Harvey 05:51, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, in all fairness, IVF tends to be planned...82.27.70.17 03:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

St Luke's House

Whilst they are a dying breed there are still people in the town who think of St Luke's as a workhouse first and a hospital second. And The Workhouse is a part of the town's culture in a way that Storthes Hall never was--for instance it's entirely possible recent series of BBC sci-fi stalwart "Dr Who" encouraged a new generation to watch "Oliver". It is however being sold off as soon as its facilities have been rehoused at other sites.

Note: St Lukes House is the headquarters of the Area NHS Primary Care Trust. The workhouse was the old 2 storey building at the top of the banking, wards 10-12, at least the staff thought it was when I did some of my nurse training there back in the 80's :). Further, basic, information about the hospital is on the Crosland Moor article page. Richard Harvey 07:00, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Ivanhoe's? erm, no, Kazzhoe's

I know it's what people call it. I know it's what The Huddersfield Daily Examiner keep calling it. I know it was signed in a barely legible faux-High-gothic "Olde Englishe" typeface. And I know I never went in when it was open. But it was "Kazzhoe's", not "Ivanhoe's" (and I'm not convinced there was an apostrophe but seeing as it was a '70s venue there probably was). I have asked for it to be verified. The tag was removed. This has happened before. No verification was forthcoming.

The Concise Oxford Dictionary offers up the following definition for "verification": n. the process of verifying. > Philosophy the establishment by empirical means of of the validity of a proposition. [...]

And it offers up the following for "verify": v. (-ies, -ied) to make sure or demonstrate that (something) is true, accurate, or justified.

My conclusion is that it would be entirely appropriate to mention that most people refer to the place as Ivanhoe's but, as it never was called that, would it not be more in the spirit of wiki to call it what it by the name it traded under? Just, please, don't cite the Examiner and call it "verification" as we're talking about proof in the sense of victuallers' licenses, not journalists'. A ticket-chit to the last Pistols' UK gig should clear it up, or a scan from that year's tour itinerary in the NME, maybe. Or a poster for any band that played there.

Hey, I could "forget" how to tune a guitar and reckon it makes me really "punk"; I just don't see the point and don't consider it "musicianship"--Steve Jones didn't get his sound that way as anyone who's listened to the master tapes could verify.

I do recall spending some interesting nights at Ivanhoe's in the late 70's. I don't recall an apostrophe on the club sign. However the BBC put one in:- [3] Richard Harvey 07:32, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

signage generally

I think it was 2001 I spotted the University has an "accoustic" facility; I mentioned it to one of the staff. It may have been changed. Should we nod to that as well? Perhaps in the Town Hall entry?

If you feel its important enough to mention then it would be more appropriate in the article about the University of Huddersfield. Richard Harvey 06:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Music generally

There's a number of small studios around. However, despite that they operate in that safe space underwritten by public funding as well as privately, no mention is made of the HD1/Beaumont St set-up or the Kirklees Media Centre. Some other places I've lived have had community-based projects of a similar nature but none which has made the transition into operating open learning-oriented workshops and running a good spec' general operation alongside it the way HD1 has. Graphitus amnemnos 22:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Although the Kirklees Media Centre was originally initiated by Kirklees Council it is now entirely independant, as noted on their webpage here [4]. There is still some funding made to it by Yorkshire Forward. Also the University of Huddersfield has information about the centre on their website, here:- [5]. As the Media Centre and the HD1 studio's are private companies to give too great a detail about them on the article page may be interpreted as spam (advertising) and removed by any editor on sight. Richard Harvey 06:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Largest town in the United Kingdom

I feel that this is inaccurate since this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_cities_by_population states that the towns of Reading, Dudley, Northampton, Luton, Bournemouth, Southend-on-Sea and Swindon all have larger populations than Huddersfield. Unsigned post by User:77.44.44.165 19:13, 25 July 2007

This has been covered a few times in the past, and although I can't find it in the logs, has certainly been removed before. The reference cited in support of the statement are not what one would regard as definitive, being travel sites. It is fairly obvious that Huddersfield is not the largest town in the UK, and certainly not in Europe! Thozza 19:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

It did quite a while back make such a claim. However editors, myself included, have constantly reverted such claims, the last instance being on the 18 May 2007. I believe the original reference, a few years back, was that Huddersfield was the largest town that had not applied for City status. At a time before it was part of Kirklees Metropolitan Borough the original Huddersfield Borough was certainly substantial My understanding is that is it is currently the tenth largest town in England. Richard Harvey 19:31, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The reference cited by Jhamez from the 15 May 2006 BBC Where I Live website article was in fact written by site user Anna Vaccaro. She was at that time a student at Hudderfield University, having done her A levels the prior year, which is hardly a reliable source, but more her own questionable opinion. I will update Jhamez so he doesn't replace the edit. Richard Harvey 08:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Cultural events in Huddersfield

Away from my normal computer this is frustrating but this whole section need to go as it is wholly unsourced.

Oastler, the Fixby Estate, and Oastler Avenue

I believe it was Richard Oastler who campaigned for better working conditions for children and lost his job as manager of the then Fixby Park Estate as a result of so doing. Oastler Avenue at Springwood/Greenhead/Gledholt is named after him and he perhaps should go somewhere on the page.82.27.70.17 03:40, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

There are many places or streets and roads in Huddersfield and other places in the World named after people. If all of these were to be included in articles then Wikipedia would become several times the size it is now. This would eventually be detrimental to the website. Richard Harvey 10:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Roman Fort at Slack

There has been a dig over the summer by the Huddersfield and District Archaeological Society (HDAS), reported in the Examiner, which has focussed on a commercial hotel run by the Roman authorities sited near the fort at Slack. Questions outstanding are precisely where the water supply for it came from.

Given the Roman talent for aqueducts and the pre-M62 profusion of springs such as the now-capped wells at the HolyWell inn, Holywell Green and the Grey Horse at Birchencliffe, as well as the eponymous Wappy Spring on the A643 which dried up as the M62 was constructed, the problem would appear to be that there were a lot of sources on the water table here.

As the PackHorse at Almondbury is also a traditional Inn and there were breweries at Lockwood and Aspley, it seems likely there was more need for a fort/hotel complex at the start of the road over the Pennines, it being halfway between York and Manchester and also some distance from Leeds (Loidisium?) on the map, than a water supply factor.

The HDAS spokesfolks quoted in the Examiner also asserted that Outlane has been continuously settled since the establishment of the fort at Slack, which is somewhat uncommon considering how Roman settlements tended to be abandoned in preference of sites nearby. 82.27.70.17 03:39, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Wesleys

Over recent months The Examiner's John Avison (IIRC) has also reported that Huddersfield, with its higher-than-average proportion of unbelievers, also made comment in the diary of one or other of the Wesley brothers, founders of Methodism, for its people's hostility to their evangelical zeal. They never lived here. Is it worth mentioning?82.27.70.17 03:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Postcode District

Without wishing to put the cat amongst the pigeons the HD postcode area also covers Brighouse. As such Wilf Lunn would have been born in an HD postcode, and thus in Huddersfield. Should we revise the postcode lists to only include those which are actually in Huddersfield? regardless of where mail would've been delivered out from in GPO days? Or is it just really not that big a deal? 82.27.70.17 04:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The post codes quoted, as far as I know, should be for addresses in the place involved not all of those for which a place happens to be the post town. Thus the Huddersfield article should only show post codes which are actually within the boundaries for Huddersfield. Keith D 09:40, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Huddersfield-coa.gif

Image:Huddersfield-coa.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:17, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Image info and licensing now corrected. Richard Harvey (talk) 12:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Huddersfield/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

. Requires addition of further inline references using one of the {{Cite}} templates (some sections are still unreferenced) Switch all existing references to use one of the {{Cite}} templates Switch inline external links to references or move to external links section Copy edit for WP:MOS Should be able to go for a GA when references addressed. Keith D (talk) 10:30, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 11:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 20:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)