Talk:Holiday/Archives/2012

"No Holidays?" section

I believe this section should be removed or incorporated into the introduction but it simply does not deserve its own section. I also removed "wrestlemania weeekend" from the list of unofficial holidays since, even unofficial, it is not a holiday but only a celebrated sporting event like the superbowl (also not a holiday). Yoshi thomas (talk) 14:54, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Why is this under Baha'i?

The most celebrated holiday in Japan is the return of Burruku and Sie. They are the Goddesses of the dead. Every two years they are honored for their intelligence and magical tributions. They sacrificed themselves to let japan become its own country. They are the most signifigant Goddesses in Japanese world history. They are honored with tributes of japanese art such as anime, manga, and colligraphy.

I can't find anything about this in Japanese_mythology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.104.56 (talk) 04:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Bevrijdingsdag and such

Quote from aricle: "In The Netherlands, Queen's day is celebrated on 30 April, Remembrance of the Dead on 4 May and Liberation day each 5 years on May 5 May. When Queen's day falls on Friday and Liberation Day is celebrated, two days' break can result in a 10-day break." This information is not entirely correct. Yes, April 30th is Queensday. Yes, on May 4th, The Netherlands does remember whoever died in WII, especially soldiers and Jews. Yes, May 5th is liberation day. However, I think that it is incorrect to think that when Queensday is on a Friday, two day's break would make a 10 day break. This would make 4th and 5th of May on Tuesday and Wednesday. Monday, Thurdsday and Friday are still three days. Moreover, the 4th of May is generally not a day off: the Rembemberance ceremony is done at 20:00 (8:00 pm) at night, that is on the eve of Liberation day. Basically, the night before Liberation day is one part with the Liberation day. The 5th of May, Liberation day, is generally also not a day for businesses, but is for most (semi)governments. Possibly area's like construction (which have quite good labour conditions in terms of holidays) have off too, but that I am not sure off.

The better proposed text would be: "In The Netherlands, Queen's day is celebrated on 30 April, the ceremony of Remembrance of the Victims if WII is on the evening of May 4th at 20:00 and Liberation day each 5 years on May 5th. This way May 5th and Liberation day's eve consitute one rememberence: for both Victims and Liberation. The rules for Liberation day, the day that the German army surrendered in WII and The Netherlands became free again, as holiday differ from sector to sector. When Queensday falls on Sunday, the celebration, and therefore the Holiday, is usually celebrated on Monday."

Hope this helps.

204.15.186.115 00:36, 6 August 2007 (UTC)Michael van den Berg, The Netherlands

Came here to say the same thing. I'll fix it. Shinobu (talk) 23:45, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanksgiving

Um, since when was Thanksgiving a holiday to "thank God for the autumn harvast"? Didn't Native Americans come into play somewhere?

Other Secular Holidays

Is this POV?

Almost every holiday is USA based.

I think so...do you guys?

Regards,

Lunakeet —Preceding comment was added at 22:00, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Problematic with one common article for a religious observance and leave of absence

This is due to the fact that most other languages make a distinction. Therefore it is not straightforward to create interwiki-links. Consider using a variant Holiday (religious) for the first case.--EvenT (talk) 13:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

English wikipedia articles aren't named to satify local dialects. The English usage is ambiguous enough to warrant a single article rather than such sub-pages. MickMacNee (talk) 14:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

As a wikipedia reader, I was looking for an article specifically about "leave of absence" and "days of travel", but I'm finding it very difficult to cipher through all the information about an observance or celebration on a specific day. I feel that these two should be distinguished from better by either creating two seperate sections in the article or creating a new article entirely. I'm familiar with British English, but I'm sure many Americans, will find this article very confusing. In The States, there is a definite destinction between the two. What is the world norm for the use of these terms? 64.252.39.106 (talk) 15:38, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

A section on the history of holidays (as in a period of time off work for a vacation) would be interesting as well, i'm assuming this wasnt an option for most people prior to the 20th century and it would be interesting to know when it first became introduced and how vacation time varied in different countries, even today. BV 26.8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.222.85 (talk) 23:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I've come here from the Valentines Day article where there has been discussion about the fact that in parts of the English speaking world, it's not called a holiday. A holiday in my country, Australia, means time away from work. Nothing else. So the first part of the definition is simply wrong for this part of the English speaking world. That universality in the definition needs to change. Unfortunately, because of the way the lead is structured, it means a major rewrite. HiLo48 (talk) 06:53, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

I think its a British English usage. Certainly in the United Kingdom "holiday"'s main meaning is what American English speakers would call a "vacation". A holiday might be a public holiday or time away from work, but a birthday or Valentine's day would not be a holiday. Its why we find it odd when an American says "happy holidays" meaning something like "happy christmas". Worth extending the "regional use" part to note this. Of course in a technical sense we still retain the notion that a "holiday" is a religious celebration, but they were so commonly also days off work it is hard to separate the two. 82.68.102.190 (talk) 17:07, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

The area about Jehovah's Witnesses

I made an edit to that area. I'm a Jehovah's Witness so the update is correct. I don't know how to add it but here is a reference regarding not celebrating holidays:

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20071215/article_01.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.158.201.6 (talk) 07:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Wrong links to other languages!

There are many wrong links, probably made by stupid robots. For example there is a link to the Finnish article "loma" which means "vacations", and "loma" is again linked to the German article "Feiertag" which means a holy day like Christmas. So "loma" and "Feiertag" are linked together, but this is wrong.

Unfortunately I know by experience that it is useless to correct it because the stupid robots will change it again in the wrong way.

Any idea what to do? --Plenz (talk) 13:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

History

A section on the history of the vacation would be interesting. A good source might be Working At Play: A History of Vacations in the United States by Cindy S. Aron. (interview) -- Beland (talk) 16:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

A section on history of holidays as vacations in general, on a global level as i feel that book is a good source it would be too oriented on the USA. I think paid holidays as vacation began in europe in the 1800's. The prussians would entitle hard pressed workers to a break as they knew it was good for productivity and morale. Though I cannot back this up it was in debate with a history student i knew. Still, the section needs expanding if anyone knows more it would be great, thanks! BV 25.7.09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.129.95 (talk) 06:42, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation page

Why was this article turned into a disambiguation page? -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:07, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Although I believe that pieces of the article ended up elsewhere (in itself a tough GFDL issue), this was effectively a preemptive move of Holiday (disambiguation) to the plain title. If you think it was controversial, you should be able to move it back so that a Wikipedia:Requested moves discussion can be held. Dekimasuよ! 12:12, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I did not move this page; I only edited the text that it had, and transferred a lot of the information to other separate pages. I did do some other moves as a result.

The reason why is as follows: This page was not written like a normal Wikipedia article describing a single subject, but more like a dictionary page describing many meanings of the word "holiday." Per Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary#Major differences, entries with the same title for different things (homographs) are found in different articles on Wikipedia and are to be found in one entry in Wiktionary. Therefore, in order to comply with this policy, each meaning of holiday must be on its own independent page.

It is true, the words "holiday" and "vacation" are used differently in various English-speaking places around the world. This is something that has to be explained in each such article. Regardless, a holiday (being a designated day on the calendar for some purpose), a vacation (as it is called in USA, being a pleasure trip), and vacation time from work (annual leave) are entirely different concepts. Tatterfly (talk) 05:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Dekimasu said you "moved" (through a cut-n-paste move) the disambiguation page here, not that you moved this page. This article does not look like a set of articles on homographs. You made a bold edit (or set of edits), it's been reverted. If there is consensus for the changes, they should be reapplied once consensus is shown. I believe that this article represents the primary topic of "holiday" and should remain at the base name. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:49, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Having spent some time dabbing while this was a dab page, I can attest that there needs to be some sort of generic discussion of the concept of holidays; equally, may pages that link here aren't after the generic concept but often a specific concept (annual leave, for example). Josh Parris 11:54, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I am thinking that we should perhaps have one page titled Holiday (calendar) to refer to specified dates on the calendar (with all those listed merged together; all these are extremely short now, and therefore can be merged), another titled Holiday (travel) (or similar) for traveling vacations, and Annual leave for time off from work. Tatterfly (talk) 17:59, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

p.s. just created Holiday (calendar) to incorporate public, religious, secular, and unofficial holidays. Tatterfly (talk) 18:11, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I've just just come here from the Valentines Day article where some are using this article as a defence for calling Valentines Day a holiday. My concern is that it is never called a holiday here in Australia, but that article implies the usage is global. The only meanings I see for holiday in this country are a pleasure trip, or a day or days when one doesn't have to go to work or school. Note that the latter usage is broader than just annual leave, as suggested by Josh Parris above. It can be something like Australia Day, a nationally decreed day away from work for most people, but neither a religious day, nor annual leave.

It really highlights how much trouble this article is now having trying to provide multiple definitions across diverse usages for the whole world. I suspect a much more simple disambiguation page is required for starters, along with many separate pages for the geographically diverse usages. HiLo48 (talk) 01:15, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I am in the process of making this a disambiguation page. There has not been much discussion for it, but none against it either. I feel that Wikipedia's standards would lead this to be a disambiguation page. I am trying to make sure that every piece of information that was found here gets where it belongs, so if you think something is missing, you can find it here. Tatterfly (talk) 20:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

As mentioned above, use WP:RM to request that the existing disambiguation page Holiday (disambiguation) be moved to the base name, rather than performing a cut-and-paste move. -- JHunterJ (talk) 20:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Duplicating the disambiguation page here and at Holiday (disambiguation) while the RM is worked out is also not beneficial to the encyclopedia. -- JHunterJ (talk) 20:26, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved for the moment - other work required first Kotniski (talk) 07:36, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

---

Holiday (disambiguation) → Holiday — Relisted to generate more discussion. Orlady (talk) 03:39, 30 August 2010 (UTC) It is proposed that the title Holiday become a disambiguation page, and all sections of the current article get transferred accordingly. The word "Holiday" has several common meanings that vary in different parts of the world, including English-speaking countries. This page all along has been about each of the different concepts in one article. Per Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary#Major differences, a single encyclopedia article should not be about multiple concepts that share a common name. This would be like seashell, exoskeleton, and shotgun shell all sharing an article called shell, or Page (paper), Page (computer memory), and Electronic page all share a common article. Tatterfly (talk) 20:42, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

• This is not a bad idea but, rather than simply moving the dab page to Holiday, the current Holiday page needs to be dealt with or dissolved. I.e., this is not just an issue of a page name change but rather a content issue. Be bold and dispose of the useful page content (if there is any) and I'll support the move. There is also the somewhat important issue of where pages that currently redirect to Holiday (like vacation) will redirect to now (leave of absence? recreation?). — AjaxSmack 22:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

• I actually tried being bold today and changing Holiday into the DAB and placing parts of its current text into the appropriate places, but someone kept reverting them when I was in the process of making the changes. I had to do this to avoid an edit war, even though I did not think this was the appropriate place to take up the matter. Besides, I had started a discussion almost a year ago in which there was one comment for the change, and none opposing it. Tatterfly (talk) 03:44, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

• • Vacation would presumably become its own article, to which the Holiday disambiguation page links. Powers ^T 01:34, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

• • Currently, Holiday (travel) redirects to tourism. This is temporary. My goal in the long run is to import some material from several articles to this title, and redirect Vacation (travel) there. This is surely a topic some people will be looking for. Tatterfly (talk) 04:17, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

• • I realise the intentions here are good, but unfortunately so far the proposal has been described mostly in negative terms, ie. telling us what the article(s) are not or should not be. I'd be interested to see specific suggestions about how things will be structured in future. For example, I have a personal interest in the Australian situation. We seem to have a different usage of the word holiday from most of the rest of the world. (I imagine New Zealand is similar, but haven't confirmed that yet.) We reserve the word holiday for times when we don't (have to) go to work or school. We never use the word holiday to describe days like Mothers Day or Valentines Day. So, how will that be dealt with in the proposed new structure? A separate article for Australia? And another for NZ? HiLo48 (talk) 07:50, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a specific way to handle this. As things are now, we have a single article on a few different concepts that just happen to have the same name in some countries. We have a single article that is about a.) the concept of a special day on the calendar for some observance, b.) the concept of traveling for pleasure, and c.) the concept of taking some time off from work. These are the 3 common meanings of the word.

Essentially, the current article is about Holiday: the word. Yes, Wikipedia does have articles about words. But that only happens when with proper sourcing, an encyclopedia-style article can be written about that word. Otherwise, you put the entry on the word in Wiktionary. If there is enough information to write an article about Holiday the word, the proper title would be Holiday (word). It is unlikely that more people would come to Wikipedia to read about the word Holiday than there would be for reading about days of observance, trips, or time off from work.

It is pretty clear: we need three separate articles on 1.) days of observance, 2.) trips, and 3.) time off from work. Each is a unique, unrelated concept. Whatever text that has been written to this day, which is not in any particular order, needs to be transferred accordingly. From there, it can be edited and improved. From there, the plain title Holiday would explain in which countries each is known as "Holiday," and each article would explain what it is known by in every English-speaking country. Tatterfly (talk) 17:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

• I am the someone who kept reverting your cut-and-paste move of the dab contents here. This move request is the proper process for moving that content here. If there are issues with the content that is already here, that is separate from my objections to your cut-and-paste moves. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:16, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

• I moved the appropriate content to Vacation and Annual leave. Propaniac (talk) 18:29, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
• Comment Holiday currently has a LOT of incoming links. If it is decided to replace the article with a disambig, those links should be changed to point to articles per WP:FIXDABLINKS. Tatterfly, this is your baby. Are you willing to help out with the cleanup? --JaGa^talk 19:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages are supposed to collect incoming links in need of repair, so this requested move is a move in the right direction and I don't see why Tatterfly should be tasked with repairing incoming links. Given the content of Holiday now, those incoming links probably need repairing anyway. 64.105.65.28 (talk) 04:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

• Support moving Holiday (disambiguation) to Holiday, after the content of Holiday has been distributed elsewhere. 64.105.65.28 (talk) 04:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Hanukkah

The main page lists Hanukkah (under a varied spelling) as a minor Jewish holiday. Among Jews, it is considered a festival and not a holiday. So perhaps it's not a good example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sethholmes (talk • contribs) 15:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)