Talk:Hitler Youth/Archive 1

Archive 1

POV-tag

The whole Article does not provide the reader with an appropriate broad view on the topic. Only very little themes are laid out and by only mentioning them the whole article stops to be neutral! It is nowhere mentioned that the Hitler Youth went through a big process of change which started at 1931 and got of course more extreme in 1933. This sentence: " it served to train and recruit future members of the Sturmabteilung (or "Storm Regiment"), the adult paramilitary wing of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP, the German Nazi Party." is also not true because the members of the Hitler Youth did not neccessarily go to the SS. The main aim was not to get new SS members. But here in this article it is shown as it were! To support this: "Only with the beginning of the war did Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS officers appear to supervise paramilitary training" (The Hitler Youth Origins and Development 1922-45, H.W. Koch; p. 194)

Then in the next paragraph: "The HJ were viewed as future "Aryan supermen" and were indoctrinated in anti-Semitism." where can I find something which backs that up? Nowhere! Because they were not seen as "Aryan supermen" especially because not everybody was aryan. Aryan persons were often in elite groups and lived in special boarding schools. They were of course also in the HJ but they only were a part of the HJ and not the majority.

Well, perhaps you might get your facts right before you carry on so about POV. The "Sturmabteilung" was the "SA" and not the "SS". It was true that many Hitler-youths were groomed for the "SA", but not necessarily for the "SS". So, please take note. Have removed the POV tag. There is absolutely no reason why you should'nt have a go yourself and constructively do an edit on this article, and submit yourself to the usual colaboration and scrutiny of your fellow Wikipedians. Dieter Simon 00:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with the POV issues. The Hitler Youth was not really a paramilitary group for most of it's existence. It was a youth fraternity like many others at that time and today, such as the boyscouts. Much of the activities that were done were the same type of stuff as well, such as camping, hiking, and rifle shooting. It definitely did try to, and succeed in, indoctrinating members of the youth in the ideology of the Nazi party, but the original effect was not that of a youth paramilitary reserve, just a way to make more good arian Nazi men, the same type of men who would join the SA or the SS. Yes I know we are dealing with Nazi's here, but you don't have to daemonize everything they did to the nth degree.140.232.146.171 (talk) 21:28, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I also agree that it is POV. There is no source given for the "Aryan superman" claim. Who considered them Aryan supermen? What is the source of this claim? What was the nature of the "antisemitism" were they indoctrinated with? Who wrote this material? Who distributed it? Can the author of this portion link to some material or state a source? While there's no doubt they were indoctrinated politically, surely "antisemitism" was not their chief area of study. Of course they were fed a negative view of Jews by Nazi organizations, teachers, etc, but this is not what defines the Hitlerjugend as an organization that it must be mentioned FIRST as if the whole organization revolved around hating Jews. The Hitlerjugend was first and foremost a nationalist youth movement, and their activities revolved chiefly around German history & culture, physical & paramilitary activity (during the war) then Nazi politics. If there is any doubt of this you can review public domain Hitlerjugend manuals online at Internet Archive which outline their rules and activities. --67.149.150.252 (talk) 09:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Boy Scouts

I had heard that Hitler modelled the Hitler Youth organization on the Boy Scouts. Any truth to this? (I don't mean to suggested that the Boy Scouts = Hitler Youth.) --Westendgirl 18:04, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes. -unsigned anon user

It was based on several early youth groups such as Wandervogel, but not on the Boy Scouts. Hitler hated the Boy Scouts with a vengence and was quick to outlaw them in the mid 30s, after the HJ had risen to become the leading youth group of Germany. -Husnock 15:31, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Truely the Hitler Youth was partially modelled on the German Scouting movement (eg the uniform). In the 1920s and the early 1930s, the Scouts, the Wandervogel and some other groups formed something like a joint movement, called the Bündische Jugend (see German Youth Movement and de:Bündische Jugend). All these groups were banned in 1933 and 1934, and their programmes were partially introduced in the HJ for some years (until 1933 the HJ was much more militaristic and part of the Sturmabteilungen). Following 1936, most remnants of Scouting were removed from the programm of the HJ.

The HJ also tried for some time becoming a member of the International Boy Scout Bureau (now World Organization of the Scout Movement. Due to the efforts of former German Scouts (and their international friends), they were not allowed to enter. --jergen 10:11, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Pope and the HJ

It is interesting to note that the new Pope was involved with the Hitler Youth! This information came from MSN.com.

It will be also interesting for you to learn that just like Young Pioneers in Soviet Union, Hitlerjugend was compulsory organization for youth. Does it bother anyone that Sakharov, Joseph Brodsky, Vladimir Bukovsky etc. were Young Pioneers in their tender ages? Mikkalai 02:20, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I too agree its interesting but I do not take the offense that the user above seems to imply. It is one of the greatest ironies in history that John Ratzinger once wore the swastika on his arm, the symbol of Hitler's evil. He now wears the cross of Christ around his neck, the symbol of good. We might actually consider putting the Pope link into the article. Albeit with political correctness. -Husnock 02:33, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

FOLLOWUP: I added this information into the article. Also a bit of Manfred Rommel, former mayor of Stuttgart. -Husnock 02:52, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It does not add to the article to include "prominent members" of the Hitler Youth, in fact nearly every male born between 1918 and 1935 in Germany was a member of the Hitler Youth. To compile a list of all the prominent members would be around 100 pages long. Despite this I really think that it is indirectly POVed, implying to the reader that people like Ratzinger should be associated with Nazi institutions. Themanwithoutapast 00:58, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Blatant removal of an entire section because you find it distasteful is not the way to go. It actually looks a little bit like revisionism. The persons mentioned in the paragraph have all been recognized in the media as former members of the Hitler Youth and there was a large public interest in the Pope's membership. That within itself, draws attention that it should be in the article. In addition, not everyone would automatically assume compulsary membership and "figure out" that the prominent persons were in the Hitler Youth. I have restored the paragraph and will coninute to do so within the confines of the Three revert rule. A rewrite would be fine, but blanket removal of historical information is not. -Husnock 01:05, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

FOLLOWUP: I attempted a rewrite to emphasis that the notable figures were notable only because of world media interest. Also added a bit about the White Rose and the Swing Kids. -Husnock 01:15, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I was not intending to withhold any information from the public... I suggest an own paragraph with all the prominent members - in fact listing half of the German politicians, scientist, musicians, theologists, historians,etc. of post-War Germany (and the discussion and articles on the pope's membership actually shows how people think about a membership in the Hitler Youth -> they see it as not different than being a member of the NSDAP; therefore I uphold my remarks and think that the addition of selected members to this article is highly POVed + should be written - if at all - under a separate caption with a note that membership was compulsory for these people) Themanwithoutapast 01:13, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

FOLLOWUP: The rewrite is much better. Themanwithoutapast 01:44, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

---

Well, perhaps somebody should add, that many people were forced to join the hitler youth. There was no real choice as many man might think, but you were forced to join this "organisation". Especially when writing about the pope, one should add this somehow. - ... -

HJ in the ghetto

I read in a account of life in the Lodz Ghetto that, in a certain moment, several families of almost pure Germans (a pure German married to somebody with a remote Jewish ancestry, whose children were legally pure Germans) were transferred to the ghetto. Initially their HJ sons went around in their uniforms, attacking Jews. After two days, their families had already explained the situation to them. It doesn't fit well in the article, but I found it very interesting. --Error 00:43, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thats a neat story, but based on my knowledge of the era, I dont think its true. The Nuremburg Laws established that children of a German parent and a Jewish Parent were known as "persons of mixed blood in the first degree" and for all intents and purposes would have been seen as Jewish. Thus, such persons would never have been able to join a Nazi party paramilitary group. Persons who had a Jewish grandparent (no mroe than 2) were seen as "persons of mixed blood in the second degree" and these people were seen as Germans but were looked upon with suspicion. A lot of these people DID join Nazi grops, so as to prove their worth. However, in all my readings, Ive never seen a case were a persons with remote Jewish ancestry was sent to a ghetto (these were also Polish based operations for Polish Jews, not that many Germans went there). There were cases that Germans with Jewish ancestry were seen as "politcally unreliable" and sent to Concentration Camps and, yes, there were cases of former SS, SA, and HJ finding themselves in a camp. One of the board members of the Wannsee Conference was himself sent to a Concentration Camp after a falling out with his superior. So, thats my scoop on it. -Husnock 07:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Would you be able to cite the origin of the story? It would be interesting to know whether there is some substance to it, althoug I must admit Husnock is quite right in the usual circumstances. Dieter Simon 21:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It was a book about photographs by Henryk Ross. That would make it Lodz Ghetto Album : Photographs by Henryk Ross ISBN 0954281373 . Besides the photos, there is some essays and Ross witnessing against Adolf Eichmann. I don't remember the exact section or who tells the story.

Later:

Ross testifying against Eichmann:

A. There were women who, according to the German racial law, were pure Aryans, but they came to the ghetto together with their Jewish husbands. According to the German racial law, the fourth generation was already exempted from being in the ghetto - they were pure Germans. There were cases where people did not even know where they were travelling to. And they even had with them children who, already of the fourth generation, were not Jews, so to say cleansed of Jewish blood.

Q. Were there also members of the "Hitler Jugend" (Hitler Youth) amongst them?

A. Yes. There were instances where the children arrived together with their parents and walked around for the first days in the uniform of the Hitler Jugend.

Q. What was the attitude of these children to the Jews of the ghetto?

A. In the first two or three days they went around in the streets singing "Hei-li, hei-la" in German, and naturally beating up the Jews. This thing continued for two or three days. Afterwards they understood, their parents explained to them that things were not good for them. They did not have anything to eat.

--Error 00:19, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Solomon Perel simply claimed to be "Volksdeutscher" when captured by German soldiers and later became a member of the Hitlerjugend despite being a Jew. Lars T. 21:07, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

If you want an excellent film where there's a section concering all the racial purity degrees I suggest you watch "Conspiracy" about the Wannsee conference with Eichmann, Heydrich, and numerous other high ranking Nazis. Douglasnicol (talk) 09:32, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Membership-Numbers

The article claims "and when the Nazis came to power in 1933, the Hitler Youth held a membership of two and a quarter million." Which is at least misleading; at the end of 1932, not even a month before the Nazis came to power, they had 108,000 members. I don't know if the 2.5 million are from the end of 1933, but by then the HJ had already (more or less forcefully) been merged with several other youth organizations, including the rather big one of the "evangelische Jugend", the YO of the Evangelical_Church_in_Germany. Lars T. 20:46, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Flakhelfer

The article only mentions the voluntary service in military HY units; the mandantory service as Luftwaffehelfer/Flakhelfer in 1943-45, which also was under shared Wehrmacht/HY control, is not referenced. (I created a stub on the Luftwaffenhelfer thing, but nothing solid yet). --HBS 00:15, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Werewolfs

Also, I question the phrase "served as members of Werwolf cells". I do not think "served" can be applied, not to mention that there are very few (or even none?) verifyable report about actual "werewolfs". The thing was more a last-ditch propaganda effort, than an existing corps. --HBS 00:15, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

SVG flag

Dear all. As per a request on my talk page, I have drawn Image:Hitlerjugend Allgemeine Flagge.svg. Enjoy. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 01:34, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Dubious statements

I'd like to see sources for both of these statements

• "The Hitler Youth child-soldiers inflicted heavy losses on the Red Army, and outperformed most other units of the Volkssturm."
• "After the defeat of Germany, some Hitler Youth served as members of Werwolf cells, continuing to resist the Allied Powers as snipers and saboteurs."

Adam 00:43, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

No-one having offered sources for these statements, I am deleting them. Adam 00:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Organization/organized versus organisation/organised

Once again we were having the problem of having half the article with the American spelling and half with the British spelling. Please ensure you are going to be consistent in the spellings. Have changed the latest re-spellings to wha tit was. Dieter Simon 01:22, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Vandal protect

I have semi-protected the article due to heavy vandal attakcs by anon ip users dating back to the start of March. Registered users may still edit. -Husnock 18:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that the last two reverts removed a paragraph about the HJ after the war, and details about prosecutions etc. I can't pretend to be an expert on this subject, but the paragraph seemed reasonable enough to me?? see here. Was this a mistake? Camillus (talk) 18:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Looking through the article history, it does appear that the paragraph was a pretty stable entry until the recent anon IP vandalism see here so I propose restoring it, which I will do if no-one says otherwise. Camillus (talk) 19:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I meant to remove the vandalism not increase it SORRY!!!!! Penrithguy 16:05, 30 March 2006 (UTC) 16:04, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Category

How about a Hitler Youth category for notable members (dozens of articles of them on wikipedia) and for the burgeoning number of subarticles? savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 09:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I created it, but its most likely incomplete. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 22:45, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Activities

What did the Hitler youth actually do? What sort of activities would a member undertake in? That seems like a pretty important thing to be missing from this article.

My knowledge is limited, but it is from two people were in the HJ. They did jobs that men would do if it weren't for the war. They worked on farms, road repair, public works projects, make clothes, etc... --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 18:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Remeber the Hitler Youth existed before the war and were like most other youth scouting groups. They would hike and learn to shoot rifles and do public service. It wasn't until the war that they started taking on more adult jobs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.232.146.171 (talk) 21:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Messed up layout

The layout at the top of the page is totally messed up. (1024x768 Firefox) -- nyenyec ☎ 19:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

In what way is it "totally messed up"? Do you mean the image to the left? Lars T. 16:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

HJ members who later held senior positions

Would I be correct in saying that West German Presidents Walter Scheel (born 1919), Richard von Weizsäcker (born 1920), Roman Herzog (born 1934) and Johannes Rau (born 1931), and Chancellors Helmut Schmidt (born 1918) and Helmut Kohl (born 1930) were all members of the HJ? (I know Schmidt was). Can anyone confirm this? Adam 02:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

HUH? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.108.245.66 (talk) 17:10, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Possible copyright infringment?

I realized a similarity between this Wikipedia article and an article by Michael H. Kater, "Hitler Youth" [Harvard University Press; Cambridge, Massachusetts; London, England; 2004].

The wikipedia article reads:

"Kurt Gruber, a law student and admirer of Hitler from Plauen, Saxony, home to many blue-collar workers, initiated the reconstruction of the League."

Kater's article (Chapter 2, p.15-16) reads:

"The youth group was initiated by Kurt Gruber, a law student and admirer of Hitler from Plauen in Saxony, home to many blue-collar workers."

I am new to Wikipedia, so I am unsure of what is allowed and what is not. However, I know that this seemingly uncited paraphrasing/plagiarism would be unacceptable in any college/university paper.

Smithg86 19:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Let the facts speak for themselves, Smithg86, the reason we really should allow this is that it is not direct copying, but a giving of facts. You can't tamper with facts and they remain what they are, as long as you use a separate style and not copy an article word for word. The facts that there was a law student called Kurt Gruber who also admired Hitler who came from Plauen, etc., can't really be circumvented. What else can you say about this bloke? It might be another thing if the whole episode was not important enough to warrant inclusion in an encyclopaedic article, but that's another matter. Dieter Simon 01:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

But they're phrased exactly the same. at least put something like:

"Kurt Gruber, a law student from Plauen, Saxony (why does it matter if it was a home to blue coller workers) and an admirer of Hitler, initiated the reconstruction of the league"

This still might not be good enough and would still require an appropriate citation, but at least it isn't just a word for word copy of the original.140.232.146.171 (talk) 21:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Integration of the "Evangelische Jugend"

The still existing "Evangelische Jugend" (Protestant Youth) is not included in the membership number of the Hitler Youth dating from december 1933.

The contract on the integration of this organization into the Hitler Youth was signed on december 19, 1933 and became effective on march 18, 1934. [1], [2]. Thus the 600.000 members of the EJ were not members of the HJ in december 1933. --jergen 12:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

The first article is rather vague and only seems to talk about a local "evangelischer Jugendverein" joining on March 18, 1934. The second doesn't even mention the "Evangelische Jugend". Now on the other hand, here are a number of sources specifically saying the EJ was incorporated into the HJ in December 1933: [3] [4] [5] [6] — last but not least [7]. There is no indication that the forced membership in the HJ was not immediate, nor that the HJ would not have count them as members at the end of 1933. Lars T. 19:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Done. Scientific source. --jergen 16:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Hitler-Jugend

Although it's been recently stripped from the article, Wikipedia's German version of this article had a bunch of media pertaining to the Hitler Youth. You can see an older version of the article here: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hitler-Jugend&oldid=39453619 --Brownings (talk) 18:21, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Sources re Hitler Youth uniform designers

The question on the part of Wikipedia is whether the sources on the Internet are reliable. You would have to check out the websites first, that is what constitutes our problems in Wikipedia. Dieter Simon (talk) 00:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

German conscription

Was membership compulsory to people German by ethnicity, language or residence within Germany (and what counted as Germany?)? The article needs to be clarified. +Hexagon1 ^(t) 06:33, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Since December 1, 1939, membership was compulsory for youth considered ethnic Germans. This applied to all areas that were (or became) part of the Reich, in non-integrated occupied countries existed similar movements as well as (sometimes) groups of the HJ with noncompulsory membership. (source: Entry Hitler-Jugend, in: Wolfgang Benz, Hermann Graml et al. (publishers): Enzyklopädie des Nationalsozialismus, Klett-Cotta, Stuttgart 1997, ISBN 3-608-91805-1, p. 513) --jergen (talk) 09:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

You source your talk page comments?! Talk about committed... :) (I'm kidding) +Hexagon1 ^(t) 14:08, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

The talk page is better sourced than the article. And I'm not kidding :-) Midnight Gardener (talk) 02:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe a redirect should be added to the article to come here. ;) --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 16:13, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

How true. As it stands the article isn't going to help anyone looking for reliable information on the HJ. Too much hassle getting permission to re-write it though so I guess it will continue in its present form. Hj-research (talk) 07:52, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

The transfer from brown to blue

I'm sorry for the ridiculous title, but nothing came to mind. But, it does apply; recently I was reading an essay, and it was fascinating: it dealt with the rapid and massive transfer of HJ or BDM children to the FDJ (Free German Youth). I think that this change of beliefs so rapidly should be noted in the article, possibly in it's own subsection. I haven't been on this article before, so I was wondering what the genereal consensus is. Note: The essay formentioned is only viewable as a whole if you have a membership with Oxford journals; you can, though, view the abstract. Cheers, Leonard^Bloom (talk) 04:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

1. =was the purpose of the girls within the hitler youth —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.117.11 (talk) 17:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Confusion over the names of the units and flags

There seems to be some general confusion over the names of the units and with it the flags for these units. Let it be noted that one of the lower units of the DJ was the "Fähnlein" which was the definition of a troop of boys, the fact that they also had flag should not deflect us from the name of the unit.

Furthermore a "Bann" (HJ) or "Jungbann" (DJ) wasn't so much the word for "retinue" as originally stated, but the name for one of the larger district units consisting of between 2,400 and 3.600 members, each of which usually had 4 subunits of 600 members, each called "Stamm" (plural "Stämme"). You can see this in the German version of Wikipedia. I shall try to source this, which might not be terribly easy.Dieter Simon (talk) 00:24, 18 October 2008 (UTC)Dieter Simon (talk) 00:29, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Side bar

What is the point of having two "Nazism" templates, the sidebar and the regular one, in the same article? Both have identical information, the only difference really is the visual aspect. Note that all other Nazi organisations listed in the sidebar only have the regular "Nazism" template at the bottom of the respective articles. The area at the top right should really be reserved for a organisational template similar to those in the other articles, giving a quick overview of Hitler Youth. Martintg (talk) 01:50, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

RfC: "Normal" template or Sidebar?

A "topic" template is typically placed at the bottom of an article. There are exceptions - law articles for example. In cases where the article is short, or already has an infobox (like here), having both templates is pointless. I would recommend removing the side template, but adding a link to Nazism to the infobox. OrangeDog (talk • edits) 03:04, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Girls in hitlerjugend

Hi everybody, Just one question: was HY only boys organization or girls were there too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.58.133.80 (talk) 14:33, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

That's in the article, no need to ask. Just search for "girl". Lars T. (talk) 22:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Error in name

For some unknown reason, I am not able to edit this article. Can someone with the right edit-level please change Father Vincent Lombardi to Federico Lombardi in the paragraph "Allegations against Pope Benedict XVI". Thanks. Spraakverwarring (talk) 15:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Have changed name to Father Federico Lombardi, as per article of his and your request. The reason for your being unable to edit this article is that it can only be edited by fully registered editors. Dieter Simon (talk) 23:00, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Request to add link

{{editsemiprotected}} I'd like to add a new external link: www.hj-research.com/forum This is a website for collectors, researchers and historians interested in the Hitler Youth movement and would be a useful addition to the article I think.

Many thanks

Hj-research (talk) 23:37, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Is this a commercial site? That would be spam, and is not allowed. Readd {{editsemiprotected}} if it is not. Intelligentsium^review 00:05, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}} No, it's not a commercial site. Which you would incidentally have seen if you had clicked on the link.. Hj-research (talk) 09:20, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}} The article needs a re-write desperately. How does one obtain permission to go about doing that or is it permissible to simply enter the changes here on the discussion page? The changes are probably too numerous for the scope of the discussion page though. Hj-research (talk) 07:58, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Uniform

There are not any pictures of the HJ Uniforms. Wouldn't it make sense to have pictures of HJ Uniforms on a page about the Hitler Youth.ItsJodo (talk) 01:09, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

A uneditable (at least, for me) phrase is at the top of this article. The phrase being="hail hitler". I am unable to edit it. So maybe someone else can? 68.98.218.162 16:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC)Lemm

Please clarify this, whereabouts is this? Dieter Simon (talk) 00:05, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

HJ Bann.jpg Bannfahne (HJ District flag) for the Hitler-Jugend

Empty. jpg image is not showing up. --ConfusedPerson (talk) 05:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Image:Bannführer HJ.svg seems to be a replacement. The description matches. 80.163.68.22 (talk) 23:22, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

"Allegations against Pope Benedict XVI"

Are they "allegations" if the Pope disclosed the information? Allegations would seem to imply that someone else brought his membership to light. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 00:47, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Also, is it even that notable? It would seem to me that most German male teens were Hitler Youth. It seems better left in his article. Possibly, a list of notable members could be added to the article with a footnote about the possible error mentioned in the section about the Pope. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 00:53, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

hUH? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.108.245.66 (talk) 17:11, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Compulsory membership in 1936 or 1938?

In the Membership section, it lists December 1936 as being the point at which membership became compulsory, but in the next paragraph it says it's 1938. I remember seeing 1938 on the Benedict XVI article as well. Has 1936 been confirmed as the correct date for this (are there sources)? If so, this needs to be changed in places that still use the 1938 date. At the moment I don't have time to track this down, so I was wondering if anyone else knew? -Eisnel 01:07, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

1936 and 1939 are correct. First, in 1936 a bill was passed ( Gesetz über die Hitlerjugend (in German), which made membership obligatory. In 1939 an executive order was issued, which specified the bill (Erste Durchführungsverordnung zum Gesetz über die Hitler-Jugend (in German). 85.124.45.190 15:25, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid that's also not quite the case. Obligatory membership was not introduced as a result of the 'Gesetz über die Hitlerjugend' 1936. Yes, it gave the Reichsjugendführer Baldur von Schirach the authority to enforce compulsory membership but he did not in fact do this. His view was that membership of the Hitler Youth movement should be seen as a matter of honour for Germany's youth. He wanted a purely volunteer organisation and this remained the case until 1939 when membership did indeed become compulsory. See: 'Ein Jugendführer in Deutschland' Kaufmann 1993, 'Idee und Gestalt' von Schirach 1936, 'Hitler-Jugend' Blohm 1979. There are many other sources period and modern which show that membership was not made compulsory until 1939. One period example from 'Hitler-Jugend' Blohm 1979 p71: '...with the law of the 1st of December 1936 the Führer made the HJ Germany's youth organisation. He gave it the mission of mentally and physically strengthening all German youth. However, the HJ never translated this into an order because the community of the HJ joined of their own free will and through a desire to be part of this community.... Speech made by Stabsführer Lauterbacher (von Schirach's deputy) in 1939 to HJ leaders at the 3rd Nordsee leader camp (3. Nordsee-Führerlager). It is a common misconception that the 'Gesetz über die Hitlerjugend' of 1936 marked the beginning of compulsory membership. Whether children were really joining of their own free will or due to peer pressure, the will of parents to demonstrate loyalty to the party etc is of course a separate matter but as far as the assertion that the 'Gesetz über die Hitlerjugend' 1936 heralded the actual introduction of compulsory membership is concerned I hope to have shown that it is an incorrect assumption. Hj-research (talk) 08:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Major rewrite of this article

I never did get an answer to my question a few lines up but hey. I'm currently working on a rewrite of this complete article. I feel that it's far too superficial, contains too many errors and is currently failing to address many important areas which are necessary to fully understand what the movement was and how it functioned. I also think that the article should be written in a purely factual manner without the undertones I see in the current article with its 'aryan supermen' and 10 year-old trained killers. Anyway, would the mods be happy for me to go ahead with this? I have covered the history of all sections of the Hitler Youth movement to 1933 so far but I'm guessing that it would be better to do a complete edit as opposed to uploading new sections every other day or so? This is my first edit so any tips would be gratefully received. Just a quick addition: my opinion is that the wiki article need not contain any references to the Pope or ex-HJ members who became politicians or actors etc. 'Tabloid' stuff on specific members who became well-known later in life is out of place here in my opinion. The movement officially ceased to exist at the Nuremberg war trial and I personally feel that the article should deal only with the period 1922 to then.Hj-research (talk) 20:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

There is no need to censor any material; the fact that the Pope has a background that links to the Hitler Youth is notable, and not "tabloid" talk. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 22:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC).

Censor? What an odd thing to say. I'm simply saying that the Pope is not the Pope because he was once forced to join the Hitler Youth. That being the case why even mention him? I think it perfectly adequate to simply point out (in this wiki article) that compulsory membership was introduced in 1939. This affected hundreds of thousands of children between 1939 and 1945 - not just those who went on to become well-known. Hj-research (talk) 08:29, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I believe it should be mentioned in a balanced and minor way. The information as written is not in a "tabloid" way, nor is it a POV driven "hatchet job". Further, it is clear in the article that membership was mandatory by that late date. Kierzek (talk) 12:24, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I completely concur in that nothing in the present article is lurid or sensationalized and the efforts to redraw the article should first receive universal consensus, otherwise, it boils down to a personal "opinion" as to the necessity for setting forth a "perspective" as is proposed. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 13:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC).

Dear me... If only I knew your credentials... Forget I was here. Thank you. Hj-research (talk) 22:09, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Stay on topic. Bzuk (talk) 22:30, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Steady on there Mr B. No need to be unfriendly. I could have really helped here but if we are unable to agree on something as trivial as whether the Pope should be mentioned then I'm afraid I'm not willing to invest my time on a rewrite which will fail at your first hurdle. I read your credentials by the way.

I agree with all your points. This reads like a typical example I had in a history lesson of a biased source. It gives the impression that the entirety of the organisation was brainwashing soldiers whereas I'm certain there were some positive ideals involved such as health and fitness. Mention of the Pope should be in the article about the Pope rather than here since it's only a piece of trivia in the context of Hitler Youth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.196.180.30 (talk) 22:22, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for your support. I totally agree. It would be great to see this article develop into a factual account encompassing all aspects of the HJ movement in time. It would appear to be the case however that those with little apparent knowledge of the subject matter will control how that happens. Not my cup of tea to be honest.

Solomon Perel: Europa Europa

I feel that either as a reference or a section of this page should include the story of Solomon Perel. As a member of the Hitler Youth and a Jew he provides unique insight and a first person experience of what happened there and what it was like to be a part of. Moreover, the sentence by on the page that is cited "…HJ put more emphasis on physical and military training than on academic study”. But part of the academic study was focused in propogandized forms of anti-semitism in effort to build hate against the "enemy". The section on the forms of indoctrination must then be expanded to include things such as classifcation systems and measurements like we saw in Europa Europa. (mooks2287)

I agree I believe it should also include Hans Scholl and his arrest in 1937 while being a member of the Hitler Youth. It should also list at ==see also== Hans Scholl and the White Rose Dalin9000 (talk) 20:34, 31 May 2011 (UTC)Dalin9000

Allegations against Pope Benedict XVI

This section should be moved to the Pope Benedict XVI article--76.2.28.71 (talk) 05:36, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Citation 15 points to a dead link to an AP article. Here is a new one: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-04-23-new-pope-defied-Nazis_x.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abstractmonkeys (talk • contribs) 19:14, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree that it should be moved. The membership of one man is not particularly relevant to the article. It should be moved, or expanded to include all famous members of the Hitler Youth. 86.43.72.9 (talk) 15:44, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Nonsense, this isn't just any one individual; you are talking about the Pope. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 21:06, 16 April 2011 (UTC).

His brother's name is "Georg" not "Gregor", please correct! Btw. kinda failure that you even as a registered Wiki-User need at least 10 edits in the English WP to edit a semi-protected article nonetheless the edits you got in other Wiki-projects, because it keeps articles like this one from being corrected. No good!--Leiwandesk (talk) 00:47, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth_Quex

I suppoese, it needed to add the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth_Quex — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rusliner (talk • contribs) 20:51, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Anthem

According to the page on Nazi songs, "Es zittern die morschen Knoche," written in 1932 by Hans Baumann, was adopted (when?) as the Hitlerjugend's anthem. I don't know where to incorporate this information in the mainspace article, Hitler Youth. -- Deborahjay (talk) 09:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Numberplates

Why is the letter combination HJ banned from German numberplates? --84.61.131.15 (talk) 16:03, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 May 2012

The paragraph on the page: Hitler Youth

"After the boy scout movement was banned through German-controlled countries, the HJ appropriated many of its activities, though changed in content and intention. For example, many HJ activities closely resembled military training, with weapons training, assault course circuits and basic tactics. Some cruelty by the older boys toward the younger ones was tolerated and even encouraged, since it was believed this would weed out the unfit and harden the rest.[citation needed]"

I have a citation, , however the spelling is seriously lacking on this page, and I do not know if a site ending in ".to" is reputable. However, there are several quotes on this page referencing this very phenominon, of boys purposely, and at the direction of their leaders, being cruel to each other "What doesn't hurt me, makes me stronger". In the series from the History Channel, from which this page below cites numerous lines of dialog, they also speak of 10 year olds being forced to wrestle 14 year olds and to keep up with it without quitting. Also most or all of the training exercises ending with the boys in one big brawl, fighting and scratching to come out "the best", "on top", "the winner", etc. This was quite strongly encouraged and possibly required by the leaders.

I don't know if I should quote the lines on this page that prove the author's assertion, but I will let whomever do the editing and vetting of this site. The dialog is very nearly perfect on the page I cite; I know, because I have all five episodes on tape and I've watched them several times. I can even hear the voices of those quoted!

Citition I am offering:

Annathule (talk) 08:15, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Added. It looks like it's a rough transcript from the History Channel feature; it's okay for now until a more complete transcript can be found. --MuZemike 19:27, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

mistranslation

a yearbook called Jungen eure Welt (Youth your World) The correct title is "Jungen — eure Welt!"[8] and the correct translation is "Boys—your world!". "Youth" would be "Jugend". --88.73.12.66 (talk) 13:46, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Regarding Ratzinger

The final sentence on the section concerning him stated that the family was 'very religious and hated the Nazi regime'. The citation to which it refers no longer exists, so I am removing the sentence. Additionally, the construction of it implies that their great religiousness would be the cause of their hatred of the Nazi regime. The Roman Catholic Church at that time celebrated Hitler's birthday from the pulpit and no member of the Roman Catholic Church would have hated the Nazi regime specifically because of their religion. If citation were found again, it would be fair to keep the phrasing should it also be stated that their hatred of the Nazi regime ran counter to the Roman Catholic Church at that time. However, this not being directly relevant to the subject matter of this article, prudence would seem to advise the sentence merely be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.169.82.41 (talk) 17:45, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Addendum to my first post on the subject, I am not able to edit the article to make the alterations I suggest here. The article is semi-protected due to vandalism. If anyone could make the change for me or tell me how to do it, I would appreciate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.169.82.41 (talk) 17:49, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

no member of the Roman Catholic Church would have hated the Nazi regime specifically because of their religion is simply untrue. It is plain knowledge that traditional Christianity had a grudge towards the Nazis.--93.135.36.29 (talk) 00:25, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Your statement is simply untrue. In fact many traditional Christians including Catholics were part of the movement. The claim that "the Nazis" persecuted Christianity sometimes made in pre-war and post-war propaganda is also untrue. There were some National Socialists of course who were either distanced or opposed to Christianity, but this wasn't the main line. Hitler for instance was a devoted Catholic. The Christians being thrown into jail or camps were either abusing their religious position for their own political agendas or they were pedophiles. --41.150.63.186 (talk) 16:51, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Your last sentence is following a line of Dr Goebbels and I will not further comment on that. There were "some National Socialists who were either distanced or opposed to Christianity", as you admit. These included RFSS Himmler (opposed, heathen esotericist, though I admit he was not in the main NS line with that either), Fhr.d.NSDAP Adolf Hitler (opposed), Reichsmarschall Göring (distanced). Need I go on? Hitler was certainly not a devoted Catholic. From the article Religious views of Adolf Hitler: "Hitler was deeply religious but entirely anti-Christian." (Goebbels) "Jesus also wanted to act against the Jewish world domination. Jewry had him crucified. But Paul falsified his doctrine and undermined ancient Rome." (Hitler, according to Goebbels - and no, this does not show his being Christian. It shows his being opposed to Christianity, and certainly not being Catholic.) "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?" (Hitler, according to Speer) etc. Very characteristic is Hitler's remark on Himmler (which I cannot quote here exactly): "Now we finally have got rid of all that mysticism, and he starts all over again. Why all that pseudo-Germanic cult? I would even prefer the Church to that humbug; at least, she's got tradition." (And no, this does not show either that he was a devoted Catholic.)

Before 1933, the National Socialists were, by an explicit decree of the Bishops' Conference, banned from receiving the Sacraments in the Catholic Church. Cardinal Faulhaber called National Socialism a heresy irreconcilable to the Catholic faith. When, in 1933, National Socialits were admitted to the Sacraments, this happened grudgingly, as a means of diplomacy, and along the line of "after all membership in the party need not necessarily mean that he stands for all of it, given that the NS party is no primarily characterised as the party now in power in Germany". Pope Pius XI (heavily assisted by Cardinal Pacelli) wrote a summary of practical Catholicism directly pointed, in opposing way, at National Socialism (for this is what Mit brennender Sorge is).

To say in the light of these facts that no [!] member of the Roman Catholic Church would have hated the Nazi regime specifically because of their religion is, I repeat, an untrue statement. And I have not even alluded to the massive rumouristic (and, perhaps, also possibly scientific) evidence that it was often the pious sort who could not help being heavily distanced in their interior.

A good description of the stand of the German religious populace, albeit from Protestant perspective (and Catholics were certainly even more distanced), can be found in fictitious form in Kempowski's Tadellöser & Wolff, which ends with the sentences "it is us that have won the war. I mean, of course, the Church and the good forces." Note that the involvement, to different degrees, in the NS state is depicted (in entertaining form) in some hundreds of 500 preceding pages; I'm not painting the "all Germany were resistance fighters" picture. But that it was not so easy this way does not mean it was just as easy, only the other way. Sometimes things are not easy.--93.135.49.244 (talk) 12:52, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Answering the original issue, the information that he hated the Nazis because of religious issues is certainly wrong. A Roman Catholic, much less the pope would not hate anyone - it is against this religion. The Ratzinger family had a strong personal stake against the Nazi regime because one of their relatives was born with Down Syndrome and fell victim to Nazi "euthanasia". Answering the other points, there were various claims that Nazi officials were banned from receiving the Sacraments but according to the only reliable source I have seen this ban was limited to officials wearing Nazi uniforms. It is not uncommon to forbid military uniforms in religious ceremonies so that does not tell too much about the relations of the Nazis with the church. Richiez (talk) 19:15, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

A Roman Catholic should not hate a person with personal hate. But this is, for one thing, deviation from the issue; second, even if we do go into hairsplitting, a Roman Catholic, while in a sense he must not hate the Nazis, can very well hate the Nazi regime. For he can hate error and sin, and wish for people to give that up. It is in this sense that the Bible often approvingly speaks of hating the sinners.

On receiving the sacraments, that the Nazis could not receive in uniform says enough about the Church's principal stand. A soldier, a policeman can receive in uniform. A corporated student can receive in uniform. A member of an uniformed club (such as the warriors' comradeships, the hunters, etc. etc.) can receive in uniform. Hence if a Nazi cannot receive in uniform, it is because he is a Nazi and gives scandal as such. If he has no uniform, he might have Confessed, and the priest does not know about his interior stand...

On the stand of the Catholic Church, two citations:

It (§ 24 of the party program) makes the feeling of a race judge over religious truths, over God's revelation and over the acceptability of the God-given law of morality. In ulterior consequence, it negates the universal character of the Catholic Church. The Kingdom of Christ, we hold as Catholics, is international, universal, catholic. Hence for Catholic Christians, membership in the NSDAP is prohibited, as long as and insofar the party professes cultural-political opinions in deviation of Catholic doctrine." (declaration of the province of Paderborn, 1931)

Without renouncing the condemnations of certain religious and moral errors included in our previous measures, the episcopate believes to be able to have such confidence that the mentioned general forbidments and warnings need no longer be judged necessary." (the German bishops, 1933 after the seizure of power and the assurances Hitler gave, albeit without intention to stick to them, on the so-called Potsdam day) --93.135.49.244 (talk) 12:21, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Wolfhilde's Hitler Youth Diary

This diary of a young girl growing up in in Munich as a Hitler Youth has recently been published and provides a unique first person perspective of what this volatile time period was like as seen through the eyes of a teenage girl, who herself joined the Hitler Youth. The book's name is "Wolfhilde's Hitler Youth Diary 1939-1946". It is readily available at all the online bookstores and more information can be found at www.wolfhildehitleryouthdiary.com. Would like to see this link added in the "See Also" section of the main article. Thanks, Doug. Doug Von Koenig (talk) 06:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Untitled

The pair of swim trunks shown in this article, made from what is purported to be a "bolt of cloth used for HJ armbands" is patently incorrect. The HJ armband bore a striking resemblence the NSDAP armband, but may be differentiated in that the swastika was contained in a diamond-shaped white square, while the NSDAP party armband had the swastika in a white circle. The swim trunks shown were clearly made from a bolt of late war (printted) cloth intended to be used to manufacture NSDAP party armbands as the swastika appears in a circle, not a square.

This makes the trunks no less creepy, of course. I collect this sort of thing, but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing them.

Coinsmith (talk) 00:22, 2 July 2013 (UTC)Coinsmith

See also

This section contains a link to:

Komsomol - paramilitary youth organization in the Soviet Union

There's no reason to call the Komsomol "paramilitary". It was the youth division of the Bolshevik-dominated Soviet Communist party. Could someone with editing rights on this page correct this mis-statement?

Komsomol - youth organization in the Soviet Union

covers the facts well enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.51.71 (talk) 01:18, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Sieg rune

An unreferenced statement in the Organization section says: " Members of the HJ were particularly proud to be bestowed with the single Sig Rune (victory symbol) by the SS. The SS utilized two Sig Runes as their mark, and this gesture served to symbolically link the two groups." However, the single Sig rune or Siegrune was the symbol of the Deutsches Jungvolk, which although part of the HitlerJugend movement, was distinct from the Kern HitlerJugend, for 14 to 18 year-old youths (see the Deutsches Jungvolk page for references). Should it be removed from this article? Alansplodge (talk) 20:24, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2014

The photograph showing HJ members participating in target practice is misdated. The photo is labeled as having been taken in 1933; however the rifles they are using, the K98k Mauser (recognizable by its bent bolt handle, compared to earlier carbines with a straight bolt handle) did not enter production until 1934, and was not officially adopted until 1935. Further, The 3rd and 4th rifles from the camera have solid front barrel bands and hooded front sights. Hooded front sights were not used until the late 1930s, and solid front barrel bands were introduced in 1943 as part of an effort to simplify manufacturing. Source: Backbone of the Wehrmacht; The German K98k Rifle, 1934-1945, Richard D. Law, page 197. Suggest that the photo be relabeled "circa 1943." Stuebben (talk) 03:03, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Done The image's info says it was taken some time between 1933 and 1945, so I've done this request. Stickee (talk) 08:51, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

New book

Shaping the New Man: Youth Training Regimes in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany by Alessio Ponzio, 2015, University of Wisconsin Press Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 21:17, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2015

I am working in WP:DE on Spielschar (Hitlerjugend) and Marine-HJ - I would like to add German names of these organisations... Taigatrommel (talk) 13:17, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Taigatrommel, doesn't the article already have the German name? It says "Hitlerjugend" in the first sentence of the article. Stickee (talk) 03:39, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

No, I think he's asking for the de:Marine-HJ to be referred to where we have "he Marine Hitler Youth, for example, was the largest such corps"; I've done that. If you'll provide us with a sentence in English describing the Spielschar, I'll get that in too. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 06:15, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year to you! Good idea, that you will add this, so you can change my Pidgin-English ;). My suggestion: Hitler Youth offered different subdivisons, divided by special topics or regional demands: Flieger-HJ (Aerial HY), Motor-HJ (Automobile HY), Marine-HJ (Marine HY), Nachrichten-HJ (Communication-HY), Reiter-HJ (Cavalry-HY) and many other. The Spielscharen gathered young people interested in arts and singing. They provided the celebrations (?) of the NSDAP, a special sub-division was engaged for radio-program of the Reichsrundfunk/Großdeutscher Rundfunk. Later they made programs for wounded soldiers or soldiers in holidays (?).--Taigatrommel (talk) 22:02, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2016

please change organisation to organization on the first paragraph thanks Toby panaga (talk) 15:41, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

 Not done organisation is correct, as the article primarily uses UK English, eg "colour", and dmy dates - it was also started by a UK editor, so we stick to the original variety of English as MOS:RETAIN - Arjayay (talk) 16:25, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Scouting?

From a French website, I machine translated Hubert Martin died in 1938 after being able to oppose the admission of the Hitler Youth within Scouting. (original Hubert Martin mourut en 1938 après avoir pu s'opposer à l'admission des Jeunesses Hitlériennes au sein du scoutisme.) I was not aware that the Hitler-Jugend had ever applied for World Scout membership. Can anyone confirm this? I have never seen any mention of this before.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 06:03, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Jugendwehr

Just thought I'd ask whether there is a seperate page for the Jugendwehr - the youth division of the German Empire involved in training youngsters for combat in the First World War. If not, I will translate the German page, which is found here [9] Dave (talk) 23:54, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

No, there is not one; only the German Wikipedia one that you found. Kierzek (talk) 16:50, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Great. Thankyou. I shall get to work. Dave (talk) 17:04, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Education For Death.ogv

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:36, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

File was vandalized, should be good now. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:05, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

File was kept at Commons. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:48, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2019

I have requested that the comparison between young conservative groups in the United States to this Hitler Youth Movement be romoved. This should be deleted and there was no need to call our young Americans Nazis or for a politically biased comparison with conservative groups. I am going to make sure these groups hear about their comparison to "Nazis". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kkingcrabb (talk • contribs) 17:48, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Am I missing something? I don't see any such comparison. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 17:54, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I see from your completely misplaced post at WT:Protection policy [10] what you are talking about. You're confused; the article is discussing youth movements in Germany in the immediate pre- and post-WWI era. And the article makes no comparisons, but rather discusses organizational predecessors. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 17:59, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Ranks

@Beyond My Ken: has deemed my "Bold" edit, of adding pictures of the last few ranks, disruptive. This disruptiveness is based around: "..." and "...", so I'm lost for what the problem is. Maybe someone can help me understand. Skjoldbro (talk) 08:19, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Small grammar error

In the line "There was great emphasis on physical fitness and hardness and military training than on academic study." "great" should be spelled as greater.

Agree. Kierzek (talk) 17:35, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Insignia and Ranks

Neither the British or Heer equivalent fields of the HJ rank belong on this page. These HJ ranks do not equal the ranks described. A 17 year old Bannführer (Banner Leader) would never be recognized as an Oberst (Colonel) by the German Army or treated as a high-ranking member of equal rank to a British colonel. These fields are utterly ridiculous and should be removed, as they only applied to the rank within the HJ itself.--Obenritter (talk) 19:02, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

I disagree. The HJ ranks are paramilitary, with the two others being used to create a frame of reference for the HJ ranks. I don't see the CIA source stating they are equal in power, but rather in structure. If I was asked what a Bannführer is, I would reply that it is kinda like a Colonel, in terms of the rank structure. Skjoldbro (talk) 10:29, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

To be frank, these prominent ranks being so large and conspicuous on the page border on glorification and probably should not even be listed/displayed. Why do we need to display the rank structure of a Nazi organization deemed illegal by the Allied powers and the European community in the first place? --Obenritter (talk) 23:50, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Propose creating a separate page for Insignia and Ranks This large and prominent display of ranks of the Hitler Youth borders on offensive (seeming glorification/romanticization) and takes up up to a quarter of the viewing size of the page. My proposal is to create an entire separate page for these ranks and keep this page focused instead on the text vice the imagery (iconography).--Obenritter (talk) 22:39, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

The ranks can be moved further down so it doesn't appear so early in the text. Last time this was discussed, the page was merge with this one. Skjoldbro (talk) 22:47, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Small spelling error

Under the troop colors section, the yellow communications company's German translation is incorrectly spelled as "Nachichten" when it should be "Nachrichten, should be a simple fix! JakeN615 (talk) 23:08, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:06, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2020

ItalyashkaUgr (talk) 10:38, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Change HJ-Marin to HJ-Marine, pls

 Not done for now: I cant find this in the text. TheImaCow (talk) 11:03, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Its in the list of HJ troop colours, Navy-HJ (Marine-HJ) is what it should be! JakeN615 (talk) 03:26, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

•  Done Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:43, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Membership section

According to the article: "in 1934 a law declared the Hitler Youth to be the only legally permitted youth organisation in Germany, and stated that "all of the German youth in the Reich is organised within the Hitler Youth", citing the 1990 edition of Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, page 253.
My 1960 paperback version of Shirer's book refers to this on page 315, but gives the date as 1 December 1936, Shirer citing the December 1936 Reich Law Gazette (Reichsgesetzblatt) in support.
I have therefore amended the date to December 1936 – but please change back if Shirer amended the date for the 1990 edition, or if another relaible source confirms 1934.
Hsq7278 (talk) 18:09, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 March 2021

Hitler youth was forced onto German children of the male sex. It taught propaganda about how Jews looked and acted. Mynamenotjeffok (talk) 16:58, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

No sure what edit you'd like to have made. Please provide the exact text you'd like to add, remove or change and where the text is in the article, as well as providing sources. Thanks. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:14, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): AjCox14.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:44, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Yunarmiya

In the "See Also" section, the Young Army Cadets National Movement should also be included. 155.4.221.27 (talk) 16:16, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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