Talk:Highland Park parade shooting

Jewish area

Hi. I just read the area in the USA is "heavily Jewish neighborhood of Highland Park". I don't live in the USA. But if the area is a Jewish area then it should be mentioned. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.15.202.168 (talk) 15:22, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

It's information, but it is not shown to be information relevant to the massacre. If it will turn out to be, we will include it. Right now, the assessment is that it isn't. If it's just information about Highland Park, Illinois it belongs there. It is stated there. gidonb (talk) 15:33, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

It's not relevant. This was a random attack with no specific targets. I added that Highland Park is a part of the North Shore a while ago, and the North Shore article includes info about the large Jewish population. Meme Star27 (talk) 15:34, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

If you can find a reliable source stating the gunman targeted the parade for this reason, then feel free to add it. Otherwise this would be WP:SYNTHESIS. EnPassant♟♙ (talk) 15:34, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

The best way to stay on topic is always to ask "is something missing?" rather than "do I know anything else?" Right now, the Jewish population is just another fact about Highland Park, i.e. does not belong in the article. It's most likely to stay that way but we stay consistent with the principle, not the outcome. The outcome is a function of what else, if anything, is discovered. gidonb (talk) 15:39, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

An investigation is currently underway regarding reports that the suspect attended a Passover service in April at a Highland Park synagogue. It is possible he was casing it. But according to CNN, law enforcement have said "they have not uncovered evidence to suggest the attack was religiously motivated." [2] JJMM (talk) 01:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

We'll wait and see what his motives were. There are rumors and you can't stick these in articles. gidonb (talk) 04:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree that nothing should be added about the suspect's motives until the motives are confirmed by reliable sources. However, the suspect's presence at that synagogue on a Jewish holiday in April is not a rumor, and it is currently being investigated. This is relevant to the Highland Park shooting, although shouldn't be in the Wikipedia article at this point until there is more information showing a direct connection. USA Today reported, "This April, Crimo entered a nearby synagogue, said Rabbi Yosef Schanowitz, co-director of the North Suburban Lubavitch Chabad – Central Avenue Synagogue. Schanowitz told USA TODAY on Tuesday that authorities had asked him not to speak about the specifics but confirmed that Crimo, who he noted had face tattoos and was not a member of the congregation, was asked to leave shortly after entering during Passover services. Like many synagogues, the Central Avenue Synagogue is guarded by armed security during services, Schanowitz said." [3] CBS News also reported about this: "CBS 2' Charlie de Mar spoke to a security guard who saw the suspect. The Central Avenue Synagogue is just down the street from where this shooting happened. At the end of April, leaders said he walked in during Saturday morning services sat down with a backpack, dressed in all black leather and wearing gloves and quickly getting the attention of the security team. 'The thought did cross my mind that maybe he is just casing the place,' said Marty Blumenthal, who works security for the synagogue and said he now thinks that's why the suspect was there...Several staff members at the temple started a conversation with him and checked his bag for weapons, which he didn't have, and after about 45 minutes he got up and left." [4] That makes 3 reliable sources (CNN, USA Today, CBS News) that have reported on this so far. We willl have to wait and see what else is uncovered during the investigation, and how that information is reported by reliable sources. JJMM (talk) 20:44, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Here's another source: Chicago Sun-Times reported that "Authorities said Tuesday they didn't have any information the attack targeted anyone by race or religion." The article quoted Michael Masters, chief executive officer of Secure Community Network headquartered in Chicago (an organization that "works with the FBI and the federal Department of Homeland Security to protect Jewish facilities across the country") as saying, "Nothing overtly we have identified in his social media posts says this was an antisemitic attack, but we are coordinating with law enforcement. Apparently on social media, there are some indications he was ideating around the Fourth of July for some period of time, which would indicate this was not an attack on one particular community." [5] JJMM (talk) 21:12, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

JJMM: The important part is that RS consider this potentially related to the massacre (because the article should not become a biography of the murderer!). Can you still add the other sources to the article? Fair disclosure: I do know the rabbi, the mayor, one of the massacre victims, and the father of the murderer. gidonb (talk) 14:40, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I am very sorry and glad you are okay. Currently the info box says "Motive Under investigation", and I just added a citation for that (using the USA Today article I linked to above). To clarify, I thought there was consensus to wait and see what reliable sources say about the suspect's motives, while the investigation is underway before adding anything more. Let me think about the best way to put any of this in the article. For now, the information can stay on the Talk page. JJMM (talk) 18:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! It's no fun to be caught up in such events. We were talking about different things. The infobox is fine as is. In the text, this history was inserted with fewer references. Meanwhile references have been added so all is good. gidonb (talk) 21:11, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chicago-shooting-suspect-posted-racist-and-antisemitic-material-online-vggwbfl97 (https://archive.ph/0qQnY) According to The Times article the suspect "posted racist and antisemitic material online" RKT7789 (talk) 13:48, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

When I first saw this point, I thought it was an unnecessary inclusion, but then again why do we specify the "suburban" or "affluent" nature of the suburb but not its demography? While we do not want to specifically attribute an anti-semitic hate crime motive until one is established by RS, I don't think adding the demographic nature of the community where the attack occurred does so JArthur1984 (talk) 17:20, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

It has to be relevant. It wasn't immediately relevant but has become very reasonable to mention by the large number of Jewish victims. The why that you ask is (and by now was) that of drifting focus. That is a problem with many WP articles. When adding detail, editors often ask "what else do I know?", instead of "what, if anything, is missing?" Anyway, it belongs in the article now. gidonb (talk) 16:55, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Out of 48 people injured, a whopping 2 have been confirmed to be Jewish. A little over 4% doesn't really constitute "large number of Jewish victims". Very bizarre from you, gib. Either you have information that the general public does not or you are blatantly lying for some unknown reason. 107.10.129.126 (talk) 23:42, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

More details are known about the massacre victims. Viewer on the injured. That could be the source of the error. gidonb (talk) 23:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Gidonb, can you provide a link to a reliable source that provides more details about the victims? Cullen328 (talk) 00:59, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, for example the following.[6][7][8][9][10][11][12] Both the Latino and Jewish communities were impacted beyond their weight in the population. That said, every mass murder victim and these massacres happen all around the US is equally horrific. A historically "dry" city where little happens, this is still very much what we talk about. gidonb (talk) 01:17, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

No motivation behind the attack?

So I'm wondering what was the motive behind that attack or is there even one? 2601:49:8400:20F0:C5FA:965F:9246:44BF (talk) 23:48, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Not quite the place to ask, but I can answer you anyways. There have been no motivations mentioned on any of the regional/national/international news sources, nor from Lake County Sheriffs Office, Highland Park Police Department, or Illinois State Police. So in short, there was no motive. 107.0.37.3 (talk) 19:52, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

in saying "I can answer" you ...didn't answer. Headscratcher. 107.10.129.126 (talk) 23:43, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

The answer was no, there is no motive. Scu ba (talk) 04:01, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Writing & meaning

I have a couple of questions i can't quite work out the answers to, relating to the writing and meaning in a three places in the article. I'm hoping that someone who knows the answers ~ maybe even one of the editors who wrote the prose i'm querying ~ can clarify, both here for me and in the article for our readers.

1. He then drove to the Madison, Wisconsin area, with a Kel-Tec SUB-2000 semiautomatic rifle in his car. He considered attacking another Independence Day celebration in Madison, but decided against it....It was later suspected that after fleeing the scene Crimo borrowed his mother's car and drove to Madison, Wisconsin where he briefly contemplated a second attack. Does the third sentence here not repeat, in slightly simpler language, the first two? If so, why? Sure, it has a different reference, but couldn't we simply add that to those for the other sentences?
2. Three Jewish victims that were killed were a 63-year-old woman, an 88-year-old grandfather, and a 35-year-old woman. Another was a 64-year-old mother of two. Another what? Victim? Jewish victim? If the latter, why not combine the two sentences and start with "Four" instead of "Three"? If the former, we've now identified by age and gender six of the victims, why are we coy about the seventh? Either way, this reads roughly and without the clarity we aim for.
3. He told the New York Post the day after the shooting that his son talked about the 2022 Copenhagen mall shooting and the 22-year-old Danish suspect the night before allegedly launching his own massacre, and avoided taking any responsibility or feeling guilt over how the suspect got his gun. As this reads, the son talked about the Copenhagen shooting and didn't take responsibility for how the Danish suspect obtained his weapon. I suspect that avoided is supposed to take the first word of the sentence, He as its subject, meaning that the father didn't take responsibility for the son's getting his gun, but it is, at the very least, a strain to interpret it that way and asks the comma between massacre and and avoided to do more than such a small punctuation mark should.

Thanks for any answers/help offered. Happy days, ~ Lindsay^Hello 08:06, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Texas tower and las vegas strip shootings

would it be worth adding the texas tower and las vegas strip shootings to the See also section? Someone added the waukesha parade attack and called them similar even tho they clearly arent. but texas tower and las vegas strip would be because they were both on high up places, like this one. Elizzaflanagan221 (talk) 13:03, 11 January 2024 (UTC)