Talk:Helga – Vom Werden des menschlichen Lebens

Title

In English, the film seems to come as simply Helga. Where does the English long title come from? If it is (only) a translation, it should not be capitlized, and "development" would be closer to "Werden" than "origin". If not, it should be cited, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:17, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: I sourced it to a specialist book dedicated to analysing the film. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 16:57, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. Perhaps add that a more literal translation would stress "Werden" as becoming, growing, developing? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:29, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

No problem Gerda. Please go ahead and add it, since you are a German language expert. Thank you. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 20:50, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 03:44, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

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Calling Helga - what if she is dead?

Helga – Vom Werden des menschlichen Lebens → Helga (film) – There are no other films of the same name, Helga. No need to use German sources, actually. BFI, The New York Times, WorldCat, and AFI use "Helga". Why not shortening the title per (only) reliable English sources? Actually, the current title is not used very much. Books on German culture, like literature and cinema, use both the short title and the long title. This book and that book use the short title, as well. Search "Helga 1967" or "Helga 1968" in Google Books. George Ho (talk) 06:34, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose This film, as mentioned in the article itself is part of a film trilogy. The trilogy films have "Helga" as the first component in their titles. There is no WP:COMMONNAME in English which can be substituted usefully, so we need "Vom Werden des menschlichen Lebens " as disambiguation from the rest of the movies in the trilogy as well as any other Helga-related articles. Search "Helga 1967" or "Helga 1968" in Google Books. This is wrong. "Helga 1968" is not this film. It could be its sequel. This book and that book use the short title, as well. Cherry-picking books which contain only "Helga" in the title as a passing mention to the film, is not the answer. You can start by checking the references in the article where the full title is mentioned in English references, including literature works and a specialist book dedicated to analysing the film. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 16:41, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Not many English use the German subtitle. Helga und Michael was released one year after German release and is titled Helga and Michael in the UK (Michael and Helga in the US). --George Ho (talk) 00:21, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Not many English use the German subtitle., yet the link you gave of the English - language book uses the German subtitle and there is no claim in that book that "Not many English use the German subtitle." In any case, as I mentioned before, and as Gerda comments below, the German disambiguation is needed to distinguish it from many other "Helga" titles. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 00:56, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. Helga - a woman's name - could be about anything. The subtitle is precise for those who understand, a good dab. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:22, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Readers may understand "(film)". Readers may grasp German title, but even subtitles may also give an impression that it's a book. Either way, they won't know what the article is about until they fully read it. --George Ho (talk) 00:24, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Readers may grasp German title, but even subtitles may also give an impression that it's a book. Either way, they won't know what the article is about until they fully read it. Wrong. The first sentence in the article calls it a "film". And the poster in the infobox is unmistakably that of a film. George, I know you mean well, but I think it is time to let people express their opinion without cross-examining them for no good reason. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 00:56, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. de:Helga (Ruf) is about a famous Running Gag in germany. I herewith threaten to translate it, by Helga Horrible! If you need to move the film, try Helga (Sex education film) or Helga – Vom Werden des menschlichen Lebens (Film). Serten (talk) 09:29, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

See also

Hi, Gerda Arendt. You've reverted my edit, in which I included Do Communists Have Better Sex? in the "see also" section with a brief explanation ("a film that compares sexuality in West and East Germany and uses footage from sex education films"), saying "you may not know that in a See also section, we have only links without explanations". That's not true. MOS:ALSO says pretty clear that "Editors should provide a brief annotation when a link's relevance is not immediately apparent, when the meaning of the term may not be generally known, or when the term is ambiguous". So, my question is: do you still disagree it's not a related article? Thanks, Gabriel Yuji (talk) 17:22, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps I should have said: I don't care about See also, never ever write one myself, and haven't seen such an explanation in Good articles. - I never revert twice, and I know the desire to place links to a new article as many as possible, but can't be convinced that the two films have much in common. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:35, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: The fact that you care or not and that you've never seen it in GAs are not a substantial criteria, are they? The two films have common the fact they are German and discusses the same topic (i.e. sex). My main rationale is that footage from sex education films from this period in which Helga was produced are used in the documentary. Maybe that's not too much, but see also only requires it to be "tangentially related topics". Can you disagree that they are related? Gabriel Yuji (talk) 22:16, 19 May 2020 (UTC)