Talk:He-Man as a gay icon

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Good articleHe-Man as a gay icon has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 8, 2022Good article nomineeNot listed
February 28, 2022Featured article candidateNot promoted
June 16, 2022Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article

Sources[edit]

  1. https://we-are.usc.edu/2022/10/12/jp-karliak-launched-queer-vox-to-bring-authenticity-to-a-growing-number-of-lgbtq-characters-in-animation-and-video-games/
  2. https://www.salon.com/2022/11/27/he-man-masters-of-the-universe-toys-cartoon/

Copy editing notes[edit]

Hi there! As a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, I've copy edited this article because it was requested by PanagiotisZois. These are the notes I've written as I edit. They aren't in any particular order, and—of course—they are just my opinion.

  • The caption of the first image feels a bit long; maybe the {{Multiple image}} template could help (see example). I'm not sure that I like this better than the current version, but it may be worth thinking about.
Cosplayer dressed as He-Man at New York Comic Con 2014
Gay porn star Alexsander Freitas at the Folsom Street Fair 2010, wearing a similar bondage harness. Such harnesses were considered, particularly in the 1980s, as homoerotic; this aspect of He-Man's appearance has been cited as an example of queer coding.[1]
  • He-Man and the Heroic Warriors battle against the forces of the evil Skeletor and strive to protect the secrets of Castle Grayskull from his clutches.[2]
    • Who are the Heroic Warriors?
  • Regarding this, Dennis says that even in cartoons that lack a same-sex pairing, readers may interpret a queer identity in a character such as He-Man, who "was muscular and never dated girls".[3]
    • I'm unable to access this source myself, so I understand if this needs to be reverted/changed. The intent here was to simplify the sentence and add a clear subject (instead of "it is possible")
  • I altered the job titles for most people ("and author" is redundant/doesn't inform the reader, in my opinion)
  • Gay clone culture was characterized by a butch and masculine look, a muscular physique, and dressing like a blue-collar worker.[4]
    • Nitpicky note, but I'm not sure that Butch (lesbian slang) is the right link here, as the meaning to gay men and to lesbians is slightly different.
  • I don't think it's necessarily inappropriate in every situation, but keep an eye on MOS:SAID issues; more copy editing may be needed
  • Concerning He-Man's gay icon status, The Guardian recognized that members of the LGBT community identified with the character and him leading a secret life.[5]
    • This is basically the same sentence as The character's double life has also been noted as queer subtext,[6] with The Guardian stating that the character became "renowned within the LGBTQ+ community" because they "saw parallels" in the secret life of Prince Adam.[5] – cut one of them

It was fun to read this article! Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

References

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference CBR was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ Bond, John-Michael (April 4, 2018). "'Masters of the Universe' is getting an epic reboot". The Daily Dot. Archived from the original on April 23, 2021. Retrieved January 8, 2022.
  3. ^ Sears 2005, p. 136.
  4. ^ Cornelius 2011, p. 162.
  5. ^ a b "T Mark Taylor, He-Man and Masters of the Universe toy designer, dies aged 80". The Guardian. December 26, 2021. Archived from the original on December 31, 2021. Retrieved January 10, 2022.
  6. ^ Collins, Hannah (October 10, 2017). "Queer Heroes: 15 Superheroes Who Are Gay Icons". Comic Book Resources. Valnet Inc. Archived from the original on January 25, 2021. Retrieved July 27, 2021.

Wracking talk! 04:38, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Restructuring[edit]

I've been following some of the edits and recent revisions from the Guild of Copy Editors, peer review - the article is looking great. I think to improve readability, it would benefit from restructuring - just moving the existing writing around a bit.

I'd suggest a dedicated (1) Background section, which would provide context for the whole phenomenon, not just the character. Then the broad sections that I see in the article is: (2) the queerness in the show itself, (3) the cultural phenomenon outside the show, and (4) how gay He-Man has appeared in other media.

Here's what I would propose and how it would reorganize the current text:

  1. Background (First paragraph of Character background and the first two paragraphs under Homosexual reading and analysis. This is background for the phenomenon, i.e. the history of the show and the context in which the show appeared)
  2. Homosexual reading
    1. Appearance (just a more succinct title for Physique, appearance, and outfits)
    2. Dual identity (this deserves its own section, I think. This would be the first two paragraphs of Character and personality)
    3. Relationships (this deserves its own section too, I think, and maybe someone could expand it. For now, this would be just the last paragraph of Character and personality)
  3. Gay icon status
    1. Sex appeal (as is)
    2. Gay fandom (first paragraph of Gay icon status and fandom)
    3. Response from creators (all of Response from Mattel and insiders)
  4. Influence (second paragraph of Gay icon status and fandom (the one about She-Ra) plus the whole section currently titled Queer reading in other media)

I think these titles are a bit more straightforward and in my opinion is a structure that's a little easier to navigate. As other editors have noted, there isn't much precedent for X as a gay icon for fictional characters. I think the proposed structure would also provide ample space for the article to expand in the future!

Happy to implement these changes myself, but I'm curious of other editors opinions since they're significant changes and some review has already taken place. Wow Mollu (talk) 00:54, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Wow Mollu: Pretty good restructuring approach. I'd say to go for it. But as you mention, this restructuring would require certain sections to be expanded; like the "Relationships" one. PanagiotisZois (talk) 18:21, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome, thank you for following up and for the feedback! I'll edit the article now, and next I'll try to find some other info/citations for the Relationships section. Wow Mollu (talk) 00:08, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I went for it. I made a few changes to the proposal, which seemed appropriate for flow, like moving a few sentences around, changing the name of the last section to "Influence on other media", moved "Gay fandom" before "Sex appeal", etc.
As you say, some sections will benefit from expansion, particularly:
  • "Relationships" section (one idea would be examples from his relationships with Skeletor and Man-At-Arms)
  • Need an introductory paragraph for "Gay icon status" section (maybe for now the existing paragraph under "Gay fandom" could work, but I'm picturing a more general overview of He-Man's prevalence in gay media, gatherings, and literature)
It's a super interesting project, trying to build out a body of evidence from a text itself, from interpretations of the text, and from the real-world phenomena that surround the text. I hope it's ultimately helpful to separate the descriptions of subtext as it appears in the show(s/movies) from the real-world phenomena that come out of those subtexts. Of course it becomes a sort of ouroboros after a while... what came first, the subtext or the interpretation??
Thanks again for your work. I hope this structure ends up being a useful basis for further modification and expansion. Wow Mollu (talk) 01:38, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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