Talk:Hans Kornberg

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Jewish categories[edit]

I've seen way too many articles that use "commentary by categorization". In particular, adding something to a category (or also on a list) often seems like a way to make a claim about a person or thing without letting a challengeable claim into the article... i.e. something about which someone might flag a sentence with {{citation needed}}. For some reason, flagging people as Jewish seems to be one of the most pervasive offenses in this direction. Before having three separate categories all basically saying: "Kornberg is Jewish", I'd really, really like to see something in the article that actually mentions this fact in a citable way. Right now, there is not a single word that even suggests that (other than the categories themselves). LotLE×talk 14:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree entirely. However there don't seem to be any mentions whatsoever (in the article or the categories) re Kornberg's origins, other than being born in Germany. roundhouse 15:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm in agreement with the removal of these categories unless clear evidence is available to support them. Based on a passing acquaintance with Kornberg, I'm not aware of any basis for them. Espresso Addict 15:34, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Obviously I took a look because of your mention of this bio on the academic bios essay. But the "commentary by categorization" issue is one I've been involved with a bunch of places. The remaining categories all seem to relate to things explicitly mentioned in the article (actually, there's probably something about BU faculty available if we want). But the Jewish ones are just there out of the blue... of course it's conceivable that Kornberg has a Jewish grandparent—or even that he goes to synagogue every week, for that matter—but absent some actual indication of the purported fact, we shouldn't smuggle it in by uncitable categories. LotLE×talk 15:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're right that commentary by category is an insidious problem, and I think the tendency to presume good faith tends to let these things slip rather too much. Just the verifiable fact that he supports the BHA tends to suggest that the tags are inappropriate. This was one of the very first articles I developed, before I got an account -- I think now I'd just have deleted the categories if someone added them, but I was less cynical then! Espresso Addict 16:15, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re the addition of the JInfo link, and the categories -- Kornberg appears to be unreferenced in this list, and so I'm not really sure how it helps? Espresso Addict 19:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that's one of those blogs that is completely worthless as a source, and certainly not remotely close to WP:RS. It gives no citations other than the subjective opinions of the unknown author of the site. I could just as easily create a page on my website of "famous people who have a birthmark that looks like a house", and list a random collection of names. There are surprisingly many similar blogs for the "jewish" stuff... about equally divided among those who think being Jewish is a great honor, and those that think it is a great shame, but all equally lacking in evidence. LotLE×talk 20:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure why "Kornberg appears to be unreferenced in this list"; he is not in the short list at the top of the page, but is in the longer list further down. Jinfo has been discussed more than once on Wikipedia, and has always been accepted, However, I shall add a second source.--Brownlee 14:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Er, I don't see it? I'll remove that link, as the Jewish Year Book, being a longstanding print publication, seems rather more solid. I still think there's a problem with adding 'Jewish' here and to other articles where the subject does not openly practise Judaism, but I think that's a general point that might be better debated elsewhere. Espresso Addict 16:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Citing Trivia[edit]

It is difficult, but not impossible, to find a copy of the 1947 Twikker which he wrote. Cambridge University Library has a copy. I'm not sure what more we could 'specify' about this.

The comment about his choice of bow tie was made to me, and anyone else who asked from what I can gather. How should we cite this? Kornberg (1991) personal communication? I think it nicely illustrates this side of Sir Hans' character.

Ewen 06:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The former doesn't seem to me to need any citation beyond the rag mag itself, though if you have access to a copy then inserting the precise title and editor(s) names stated might be useful. I've never heard the latter, though I find it easy to believe; it might be one of those things that isn't really verifiable unless it pops up in print somewhere. I wonder if it's in one of the Christ's College mags from Kornberg's time? Unfortunately I've misfiled most of my back copies, but if you're in Cambridge they'd no doubt be accessible. Espresso Addict 23:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well the rag mag's name is Twikker and the 1947 edition was edited by HLK. Not much more to be said! Ewen 20:19, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the specify tag, pending a more specific explanation for it (there is Twikker, assuming the page survives). The bowtie difficulty seems a knottier one. I have a feeling that no sentence in Wikipedia would escape full scrutiny. roundhouse 11:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've restored the bowtie. It's not the sort of thing that gets into textual reference materials, but I've never seen a photograph of him without one (eg [1] [2]) & anyone who has ever met him will recall it. Espresso Addict 00:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there's a secondary source mentioning his preferring bowties, his choice of neckwear is inconsequential to the point that it doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. He might well never wear anything else, but without there being an actual source for that (i.e., one that doesn't require original research) it doesn't meet Wikipedia:Verifiability. -- Jonel | Speak 01:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The wearing of a bow tie is not notable. Mangoe 03:30, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Hans Kornberg/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Rated as stub class for the following reasons:

No photograph
Single external link, lacks references
No details on work beyond general area
Trivia section difficult to verify

Last edited at 14:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 17:07, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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German-British or German-born British?[edit]

I've reverted edits by User:88octopus88 to some pages which said that Sir Hans was German-British. I would contend that he is a German-born British citizen, based in the first instance on the fact that he has the honorofic "Sir" which is not a German honorific. Ewen (talk) 21:33, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have undone your work. His nationality is German-British, his citizenship is British, his ethnicity is German, born and bred. He is not a British person born in Germany as you seem to think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88octopus88 (talk • contribs) 19:08, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So you have. Do you have any evidence that Sir Hans claims any kind of German citizenship, dual or otherwise? How would define a "British" person anyway? Ewen (talk) 19:17, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For guidance, see MOS:ETHNICITY. "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases this will be the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if the person is notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable... Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." We have evidence that he is a British citizen ("Sir") and also that he was born in Germany and left as a child to live for many decades in the UK. I have seen no evidence that he claims his German citizenship, but absence of proof is not proof of absence. I note that the MOS refers to "previous nationalities" which implies that nationality is to be viewed as impermanent. He was 11 when he left Germany and never lived there again. He lived in the UK and became a British citizen until, aged 67, he emigrated to the US. Ewen (talk) 19:39, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, he is a British-US dual national: https://www.ae-info.org/attach/User/Kornberg_Hans/CV/SirHansKornberg%20CV.pdf Ewen (talk) 06:15, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]