Talk:Hand fan/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Universal motors in table fans?

Has anyone ever seen one of these? All the table fans that I've ever seen have used on form or another of induction motor or DC brushless motor.

Atlant 12:36, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

You're right, my mistake. Deleted the bit about univ. motors, feel free to add correct info. GalFisk 06:47, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Squirrel Cage

What about "Squirrel Cage"-type fans? One reference said they're aka "Shaded Pole Blowers" -- not sure if that's right. 68.156.53.188 13:22, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

"Shaded Pole" refers to the motor itself, not to the fan. To add to the confusion, the rotor in this kind of motor is called a "squirrel cage" rotor as well.

The squirrel cage fan looks like a variation of the centrifugal fan mentioned in the article. However, there is also a fan type called the tangential fan, which is not mentioned. It has a squirrel cage fan blade, but draws air in from the outside of the rotor. I found good description and drawing here: http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedProducts/Detail?ExhibitID=20942

GalFisk 18:50, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

That (the tangential-flow fan) is very cool -- thanks for pointing that out. Now, do you want to be bold and add it to the article? ;-)

Atlant 00:34, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Done. Cleaned up/changed/added some info as well (some of it didn't make sense). Removed the (inaccurate) description of how an electric motor works from the table fan bit. Could use an image of the perpendicular fan, showing the squirrel cage rotor, to make the detailed description of the rotor superfluous, and explain the function better. If I found a good image on the web, how woud I go about getting permission to use it in Wikipedia? I guess I could just make a simple 3D model and post a rendering of that instead... The article should also mention that centrifugal fans sometimes use this kind of rotor, when the picture is posted. Could also need to list more uses for centrifugal and (especially) tangential fans, I don't know too much about that. Article could use some more cleanup as well. English is my third language so there may be mistakes I didn't spot.

GalFisk 11:57, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

The tangential fan is apparently better known as the cross flow fan, edited article to reflect this. GalFisk 08:38, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Centrifugal blowers "noisier"?

I disagree. In my experience, a cenbtrifugal blower that moves an equal volume of air as an axial fan is almost always quieter than the axial fan. The big difference is that "blade pass frequency" in the blower is much higher than the blade pass frequency in the fan, essentially eliminating the "tones" to which the human ear is so sensitive.

Atlant 12:36, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

I got the info from an ELFA fact sheet, but I've found websites claiming both (more seem to support the blower being quieter though). It said "comparable fan", I guess that would be by CFM rating? Would a centrifugal fan with similiar CFM be much bigger than the axial fan?

The mounting of the axial fan can also make a big difference in noise, a grating or similiar close to the blades will increase the noise level quite a lot. Maybe the fan itself is quieter, but in most applications it's mounted in a way that makes it noisier?

I'm just speculating here though, some hard evidence would be nice :) GalFisk 07:04, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I too would assume "comparable" means equivalent CFM rating, although I suppose physical size might be an important factor as well.

And I'll bet "quietude" depends a lot on whose marketing material one is reading. :-)

Atlant 14:24, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Blowing machines

In New International Encyclopedia, a 100-years-old article describes "blowing machines" (an interesting topic with merit). Unfortunately, in a classic over-simplification, someone has re-directed blowing machine to bellows, and confounded and confused two radically different things. A "bellows" is not a machine, it is a tool.

Blowing machines should be an article. Heavy industries utilize large blowing machines. Electric fans are machines which blow air, therefore, they are simplified blowing machines. While I did not begin the original blowing machine article, I'm certain that there is a need for a blowing machines article, therefore, I'm probably going to launch a blowing machines article. One such article is needed. Superslum 00:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I presume a "blowing machine" is a tool used to blow plastic and glass bottles? And if that wasn't in your definition, it ought to be. ;-)

Atlant 12:21, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

computer fans

Why isn't this covered? it is important.--Capsela 04:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

What's especially unique about "computer fans"? You could write a section on "boxer fans" and their common applications, though (including computers). Atlant 17:05, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

See computer cooling fan. I find this a bit weird in how this article covers a wide variety of more common fans than computer cooling ones, and then there's a specific article about that particular kind of fans. Hmm. Maybe it will make more sense to me if this article is disambiguated more. Currently it seems to be a mix of "collecting everything in one" and write a relatively short article about computer cooling fans. Northgrove 09:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I also think maybe a computer fan article is needed. Since for people interested in computing, much of the info in this article about ancient fans and such is not nescesary. Things the article could mention is where fans are placed in the computer, what components need most cooling, etc. Computer fans can have PC fan controller. Fans used by modders often have LED's or UV to make them glow. As far as i know, there are fans with fluid dynamics that are more silent. -- Frap 21:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I just found a Computer cooling article. ;) -- Frap

electric & non electric.

Outland, (in Germany or France per example) we do not use the same word when we speak about a 'non electric' fan or an 'electric' fan..

So if the :en: doesn't want two interwikis for many languages.. please divide the article in two ^^ Goob dye! Tvpm 16:10, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Agree. Same for Chinese and Japanese. --minghong 02:18, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Agree. Same for Russian. --ajvol 16:17, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Agree. Same for Latvian. (article lv:vēdeklis has not been written yet) -Yyy 11:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

In spanish we say "abanico" for non electric fans and "ventilador" for electric fans.--Magnus Colossus 14:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Is the division actually "electric" versus "non-electric" or is it more subtle, perhaps what we might refer to as any "fan (mechanism)" versus "fan (hand)"?

Atlant 11:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

This could be as good, too. -Yyy 10:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Date for folding fan?

I don't understand these two sentences: "The folding fan was invented in Japan in the 8th century and taken to China in the 9th century. The Akomeogi (or Japanese folding fan; 衵扇; Hiôgi) originated in the 6th century." How could the Japanese folding fan have originated in the 6th century, when it wasn't invented until two centuries later? Clearly I'm missing something here. --Geoff 128.156.10.80 20:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Fans largely replaced by Air Conditioners?

This sentence: "Electric fans have been largely replaced by air conditioners in households and offices, even though electric fans consume much less energy than air conditioners" is too much of a generalisation. While it may be true for households in hot countries, fans are still far more prevalent in the UK, and presumably other cooler countries, than air conditioners. Portable air conditioners are rapidly gaining popularity here, but fans are far more ubiquitous. Home air conditioners only really appeared in UK shops about 10 years ago, and "permanent" home air conditioning systems are only now starting to appear in a few mainstream retail shops. 217.155.138.250 22:02, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Old stuff

<COMMENT MODE="Curmudgeon"> Wikipedia does't make fans. Please could the uploader upload the original picture. It won't count as advertising and would look more professional. Pretty please, thanks! Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 09:46, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC) </Curmudgeon>

I think this article should be seperated in two - the electric fan and the hand fans. For a few reason: I don't think that HVAC is an appropriate category for the hand fans. In most other languages they are two different words, e.g. Spanish (abanico vs. ventilador), French (éventail vs. ventilateur) so all the interwiki links only lead to the mechanical fan page. There's already a disambiguation page in place. I also think that "Fan (implement)" is not a very good title. I suggest "Fan (mechanical)" and "Fan (hand-held)". -- 2005/08/13

Jonathan Rabbitt 01:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC) I agree, "Fan (mechanical)" and "Fan (hand operated)" or similar would be good. Actually, this whole article as it stands is very ordinary. It seems to have been hijacked by someone with a jet engine fetish. I think that this article needs to be totally revamped. It should start with the most basic of fan concepts, i.e. the basic mechanical fan types (axial, centrifugal, mixed flow, etc.) Then, a separate section could address the applications of particular types of fans.

I agree as well that this article should be split and renamed. Hand fans and mechnical fans are not near the same thing. Manufracture 17:43, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Kie (Unregistered User)14:00, 17 July 2005 (EST) I also think it makes sense to have two articles, one for the hand fan (Fächer/abanico) and one for the mechanical variety.

I agree that we should split this section into two articles. I linked this page to hand fans. Mechanical fans have no place in the early 19th century. ::Vsanborn 12:36, 10 October 2006

Split off Fan (mechanical) as agreed to above. -- P199 21:03, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I think this article deserves to be a featured article. IMO it represents what's awesome about wikipedia, in-depth articles on seemingly mundane things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.92.179.12 (talk) 00:27, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

What about non-folding fans such as uchiwa?

This article focuses almost entirely on folding fans (sensu in Japanese). There was no mention of uchiwa, the round flat fans that are used only in summertime. These are commonly used when wearing yukata (the cotton summer garment sometimes mistaken for kimono), and women have a unique method of carrying them when not holding them in the hand - one wears them in the obi, by pushing the handle down into the obi bow that's worn at the back of the body. I don't know much more about them than that, however - plus the "fact" (can't remember where I heard it) that the uchiwa form of fan is older than the sensu and originated in China, where they continue to be used.

If someone can add more information, it would be wonderful to have a section on uchiwa.

--Chamekke (talk) 15:23, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Folding fan was never invented from Japan in 8th century

Japanese again, distorted cultural history of East Asia, please note nothing was invented from Japan.--Korsentry 01:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanSentry (talk • contribs)

Please, Japanese stop distorting history and come clean! Folding fan was never invented in Heian period, in fact there's no evidence of this that folding fan was even used in Heian period. It was invented in Goryeo in 11th century and brought to China. This is recorded heavily by Song book, never Japanese! Do not steal other contributions! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coconut91 (talk • contribs) 16:24, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh dearest of God. Has the dispute spread all the way over here already? -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 05:46, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Ethnocentrism is quite hilarious.

Why does it feel cooler?

Can anyone explain me why it feels cooler with a fan although it just moves around air of the same temperature? ROGNNTUDJUU! 16:31, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Two reasons:

The moving air evaporates sweat from your skin much more effectively than does still air, and
The moving air convects heat away from you much more effectively than does still air.

Atlant 02:56, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for answering. ROGNNTUDJUU! 03:10, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

What about wind chill? Dysprosia 10:05, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe this clear answer should be inserted in an appropriate place in the article. I got a bit confused over where though, and a section about the physical reasons fans "work" felt like overdoing it when there'd just be these words. But I do believe a fan article should tell why they work more clearly than it does right now. Northgrove 09:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I concur. What cools the most, evaporation or convection? Does even convection plays any larger role? 78.88.117.116 (talk) 19:32, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Wind chill is just weathermanspeak for convection.

Atlant 10:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Why does it still feel cooler even when the ambient temperature is obviously above that of your own body? Even in a sauna, a fan running will make you feel cooler. How is heat moving by osmosis from your cooler skin to the hotter air?

Because of evaporation. 132.68.8.32 09:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

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Usage in drag and gay culture

I think the article should include a section on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DLaika1025 (talk • contribs) 01:01, 5 July 2020 (UTC)