Talk:Grave of the Fireflies/Archive 1

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Archive 1


Bizarre writing?

I'm not sure why but someone who wrote what side of Japanese culture have written a completely bizzare piece of writing that offered a deformed view of what this movie showed. Have that writer even seen the movie itself? Revth 18:18, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It all seems pretty accurate to me; I've encountered reference to the Hidoma/firefly legend in a number of different sources.--Centauri 07:54, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
The writing is bizarre Im currently watching the film now for the second time in three days and know that the brother survives and only the younger sister dies.... where as in this it is constantly mentioned that they both die.... If that were true then how could it be writern from the writers life if the writer acctually died during WWII? Im currently editing and correcting all the instances where it says that both brother and sister die. -Matthew Carr 01:48, 15 Aug 2006 (UTC)-
That is true in the novel but not in the film. Seita dies at the train station at the beginning of the film. The rest is a his spirit's flashback. Did you not notice the ghostly Seita and Setsuko who board the train? Finite 02:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the animated version starts with Seita saying "{date}...boku wa shinda" and then the train officials going through his stuff, about to clean him up. (It's been a while, I forgot the date). The live-action version also includes him dying at the train station, with the cousin accusing her mother of killing them. Not bothering to log in, not that important. 207.91.15.10 15:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
You just missed it. It happens at the beginning of the movie, and if you miss it, you assume the scene at the end is just a montage. But the reason the boy's ghost in modern Tokyo/Kobe/wherever is the same age as he had been around the girl is that he also died later that same year. As for the other point, just remember characters (even 'autobiographical' ones) ≠ writers. -LlywelynII (talk) 22:35, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Reference in a song

I think Arch Enemy's song titles "the day you died" is about this movie but I'm not 100% sure as someone told me this.

I think Childs' Mariana also references this movie; I'm 99% sure that this song samples the lines "September 21st 1945; that was the day I died" and "she never woke up" from this song, and probably other lines too that I can't hear too clearly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nachturnal (talk • contribs) 14:48, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Cultural background?

Hello! I have lived in Japan for eight years and I LOVE this movie, but I had no idea that fireflies stood for death--interesting! Perhaps someone should say "It STOOD as a symbol of death" rather than "It STANDS for death." This is just me, though--I'm only 16--so I might be wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.41.84.110 (talk • contribs) .

It seems to be a pretty central idea in the film, so maybe you should ask an older Japanese person. --Centauri 07:50, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

The line "More broadly, as Seita's wounds are self-inflicted, and also kill his sister, it can be read as a criticism of Japan's involvement in World War II: (male) Japanese pride caused great damage to the nation" is simplistic and sexist.

Story's Message

I've added this part, it is absolutely true. It has driven me crazy that this article focuses so much on the wrong interpretation of the story. The whole section is basically just a translation of the Japanese Wiki article for Hotaru no Haka which is much more accurate description of the movie's meaning. I live in Japan and whenever I discuss this movie with anyone they point out how well the stroy illustrates the danger of pride. I was unable to find a source for a quote, but I have been told that Nosaka himself said he had failed to get his message across as so many people misinterpreted this movie as being an anti-war story. If you don't believe me feel free to research this, you'll draw the same conclusions.

Also see here: http://anime.mikomi.org/series/63.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.112.22.253 (talk • contribs) .

Hi, while I'm not particularly disagreeing with you I wonder if it is the job of a Wikipedia article to interpret a film. I'm just not entirely sure if it's appropriate or NPOV to have a section on the story's message. Surely the same film can mean different things to different people and I suppose I've always thought that once an author puts a story out there they lose control of it. If everyone takes it an as anti-war film then that's what it is?... For the record, I always took it as the story of a boy who made a mistake, it may be set in the war but I never thought it was about the war. -- Lochaber 16:38, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi, you make some good points and I have changed the article accordingly. I have renamed the secion Story's Origin and Interpretations and presented the pride message as being an alternative interpretaion and the anti-war theory as the more common interpretation. I think given how much the anti-war message is discussed prior to that section they are given equal attention.
I believe you are right in saying that we should not force one interpretation, but I would disagree that we cannot present any interpretation. Look at this quote from the Wiki Animal Farm article "The book is an allegory about the events following the revolution in the Soviet Union, and in particular the rise of Stalinism and the betrayal of the revolution which basically replaced one dictatorship for another." Any article which discussed Animal Farm would be greatly lacking if it did not mention the interpretation and significance of the work. Especially when you have evidence to support that interpretation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.112.22.253 (talk • contribs) .
Takahata makes the same comment in an interview about Grave of the Fireflies (I have a 2 DVD edition, and the interview is one of the "extras" on the 2nd disc. (It's actually playing now, I'll type out an (almost) verbatim transcript of what the subtitles said...)
"...Many people in Japan sympathized with Seita. I was actually quite suprised by this. When I was making it, I saw him rather like the children of today. He saved money and thought he could manage on that, which is quite strange for those days. So he doesn't obey his aunt. He thought he could live without relying on her. ...He felt he could manage to live. Just like children of today, he didn't try to get along with others... even if he was humiliated. He had his sister to protect. He was short-tempered too, and had no perseverance. ... (Seita) thought money could buy anything and solve everything. But in reality, in those days, money didn't help much... There were so many people that survived by peservering...even under much harsher circumstances. But Seita wasn't patient enough. He thought he could live on like that. (The Japanese audience) only felt sorry for Seita. Criticism towards Seita's character would not have suprised me, and I even hoped to hear it, but I didn't get this kind of feedback."
I trimmed it a bit, but to me, his meaning is still clear, in that Takahata considers that Seita's actions are what caused his sisters - and ultimitely his own - untimely death.--Johnmc 12:00, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Antiwar? or Anti-American?

It is interesting that the film is described as anti-war. Isn't it more about the inhumanity of the American bombing of Japanese civilians - a war crime for which the Japanese people have never seen justice?124.197.15.138 (talk) 05:28, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Considering Pearl Harbor provoked those planes in the first place? No. Not in the minutest degree. -LlywelynII (talk) 15:42, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour was an attack on a military target. The deliberate killing of civilians - which was at the heart of the American bombing strategy against Japan - was quite a different matter. But I repeat, isn't this film about the tragedy of American bombing of civilians (whether that can be justified or not is a seperate matter), rather than being anti-war as such?

Release Suspended in Korea?

Is there a reference for that? According to IMDB, the movie seems to have a rating in South Korea. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.169.41.46 (talk • contribs) .

DVD releases

Does anyone know anthing about the film's DVD releases outside the U.S. ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Finite (talk • contribs) .

I'm not sure about DVD releases, though I do own a Chinese version of Grave of the Fireflies released by Universe Laser & Video as a VCD in Hong Kong. It's not pirated, but there does seem to be a disrepancy in its title, which is 'Tombstone For Fireflies' - no doubt caused by the open-endedness of the Japanese title as in the article. It has the original Japanese version as well as a near-accurate Cantonese dub and Chinese subtitles.--Dagari 03:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It was released in Australia by Madman Entertainment on 10/2/2004 http://www.madman.com.au/actions/catalogue.do?releaseId=2506&method=view 211.30.69.12 13:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Schindler's List/Privat Ryan and Steven Speilberg

Now I recall reading somewhere, but I can't rember where, his personal thought's on this film. I've noticed it was refrenced in both Schindlers and Private Ryan. Anyone know how more about these, willing to contribute? --ShortShadow 03:10, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

There's an old rumor that Spielberg praised Cagliostro, but I've never seen a reliable source for it. I've never heard of Spielberg praising Grave, and I'd tend to think it's just another unfounded rumor. Also, I don't remember noticing any Grave references in either Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan. Are you sure that they unambiguously reference Grave? (I just realized that you might be talking about the IMDB entry. Unfortunately IMDB doesn't give any details about movie references, and like Wikipedia it's built from user contributions; I'd tend to think that this is a failure of peer review.) -- BenRG 19:28, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Why is Schindler's List referred to in the context of anti-war films? It was nothing of the sort. It is best described as Jewish anti-Nazi propaganda.

WP:GA then WP:FA

Starting perhaps a couple weeks from now, I'm gonna take this article on as a serious development project. If anyone else wants to help, then join in. :-) --Ling.Nut 23:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll Help you. Just contact me on my user page, and tell me what to do. busboy 20:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


Copyright problem removed

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Locarno 2009 quote

"Courage, motivation and reflection were all huge themes at the Ex-Rex that afternoon as the screening of Isao Takahata’s cautionary tale set during the WW2 Kobe fire-bombing’s Grave of the Fireflies brought the audience to tears leading to a very emotional Q&A session in which Takahata said of his movie “this is the story of our generation, it’s what I have lived, fortunately I lived through this but many died, many of my friends had stories like this one.”"

http://www.pardo.ch/jahia/Jahia/home/News-and-press-releases/Blog/cache/offonce/lang/en?cnid=4094 --Gwern (contribs) 14:16 10 December 2009 (GMT)

Supposed release in 2008

In this article, it says "A different live action version of the film was released in Japan on July 5, 2008," and then links to a page on the IMDb. The IMDb has the name 'Tombstone for Fireflies' (as somebody mentions above) and indeed has the date as July 5, 2008. However, a quick look at the names of the actors and actresses will reveal that they are all the same people as the 2005 release, leading me to believe that it is in fact the same film. Can this be cleared up? --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 00:16, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Title ambiguity

Just because the English title isn't Grave(s) of the Fireflies and/or Firefly doesn't mean that that Japanese isn't ambiguous. Now, if the article is wrong, fix that, but Japanese grammar itself doesn't need cites. Cf. WP:BLUE, WP:CITEKILL. -LlywelynII (talk) 22:44, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Maya

At one point in the film Seita actually names the ship his father supposedly was a member of, the Maya. I looked it up, and it turns out it was a real ship. Should this be mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.97.8.157 (talk) 18:44, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, unless you have a reliable source that the real ship you found is definitely connected to the ship in the movie (and not, say, a coincidence), it's probably not a Wikipedia-worthy fact. Princess Lirin (talk) 02:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, it should. Please cite whatever sources you have.Enon (talk) 00:57, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
There's a Wikipedia article, Japanese cruiser Maya. I added it to the See also section, since I couldn't see any place in the rest of the article where that information would fit. Boneyard90 (talk) 01:10, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

i think this reference can be added

The links i have given were from a site that was one of the very important site related to the topic. In that case it was about studio ghibli. Now the link i have given was from onlineghibli.com which is no less popular than nausicaa.net if not more. And there is no need to promote the site as it is even more popular than the nausicaa.net and it is the first result in the search engine.And i absolutely know about the no-follow system or rule of wikipedia.And that site actually verifies the character list as it actually gives pictures of the artists and it has many other infos like music pieces etc.And this site also has been there for 10 years so it is one of the most important reference site to the topic. The problem is i do not know how to use the reference template[and also do not have access to] that is why i needed to give the external link. We all need to improve wikipedia so review my suggestion.Nibir2011 (talk) 16:48, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

FA?

All right. I am considering a push for a possible FA. The article looks good, but can be reorganized in some sections. For example: Development should be expanded upon and retitled "Production". A few more examples include:

  • Lead section - needs to be expanded to three or four paragraphs.
  • Plot section - looks good.
  • Production section - should be expanded upon with history of the production.
  • Themes - can be created, some of the Story origin and interpretations can be merged into it.
  • Cast section - may need to be reformatted per WP:MOSFILM#Cast.
  • Reception section - needs to be totally reorganized, with the inclusion of critical reception from reliable sources and accolades if possible.
  • Legacy section - needs to be created. We can also merge the live-action drama versions there.
  • Citations - all dead citations need to be replaced.

All are welcome to assist in this process and suggestions on these improvements are also welcome. At an appropriate time, the article will be put up for general criticism at peer review.

The main goal is to get this article as a TFA on April 16, 2013, the 25th anniversary of the film's premiere, with My Neighbor Totoro as a TFA for the following day, April 17. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:06, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the article, i dont think theres much to make it featured status, so i think we should push it to GA first. And then see where it goes from there. Theres alot of original research here too. Notany anime/manga articles get featured status.Lucia Black (talk) 03:18, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Are the live-action versions remakes of this film? If not, following WP:SS, they should be discussed either in their own articles or at Grave of the Fireflies (novel). Goodraise 14:21, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
If a Themes/Interpretations section would be added, there's quite a lot of useful information that can be found through Google Scholar [1].--Tærkast (Discuss) 14:27, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
@TaerkastUA: That's good to know.
@(Anyone): Just throw useful URLs into a Further reading section in the article. I'll take care of the formating. (Of course you can do more, but I thought I'd mention it because not everyone realizes that doing so little is helpful already.) Goodraise 14:43, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Also, should we have the original Japanese release poster in the infobox or not? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:18, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Could somebody translate [終戦六十年スペシャルドラマ「火垂るの墓 ― ほたるのはか ―」 ～ドラマ化に寄せて～] Error: {{Lang}}: unrecognized language code: jp (help) accurately? Goodraise 12:00, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Same question: [映画を作りながら考えたこと] Error: {{Lang}}: unrecognized language code: jp (help) Goodraise 12:07, 24 November 2012 (UTC) Never mind. Goodraise 12:17, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
You said "I am considering a push for a possible FA." Have you made up your mind yet? I'll help. But I won't do it alone. Goodraise 13:12, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I have made up my mind. I think we should just take this article for peer review and get it up to FA status when ready. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:47, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
That's not the reply I expected. What happened to all that enthusiasm? Goodraise 16:04, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
I am actually interested in helping anyone out and enthusiastic about getting this article and My Neighbor Totoro (which is a core topic for WP:FILM) up to FA. With that said, I think we should start by expanding the lead to three or four paragraphs. Also, I think we should expand the production section by finding the appropriate source such as the beginnings and the double-billing with Totoro. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:46, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
The lead is not the problem. Flesh out the article body and I'll write a proper lead with both hands tied behind my back. What the article needs is beef.
  • Step 1: Find lots of high quality sources and put them into the Further reading section.
  • Step 2: Mine those sources for content. Squeeze everything usable from them into the article.
  • Step 3: Condense.
Once WP:WIAFA#1(b,c,d) are met, the rest will be easy. Goodraise 17:21, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I guess that should be fair enough. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:23, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Structure wise, this needs to be improved. I have a film structure guide I made for good quality film articles, which can have specific headers of course, per individual film requirements. Should the "Title" and "Firefly symbolism" sections even be included? If so, they could probably be reincorporated into the production and an interpretations section respectively.--Tærkast (Discuss) 18:05, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Be bold! Goodraise 22:03, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Dont judge. S/he may be busy fixng other articles.Lucia Black (talk) 22:38, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Who's judging? "Be bold!" are words of encouragement. Goodraise 23:14, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Can be interpreted as "do it yourself", especially after one gives their review on the article. We cant asume everyone who comments is directly fixing the article.Lucia Black (talk) 23:57, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

This is going off-topic. If you have a problem with my conduct, follow WP:CONDUCTDISPUTE and raise the issue on my talk page. I will not continue this discussion here. Goodraise 00:34, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Release and reception

I think the sections should be moved up to the part before the live action version(s) are/is discussed. --69.113.52.93 (talk) 03:04, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. However, per WP:SS, I think the live action versions should be moved to the Grave of the Fireflies (novel), as the novel is the original work. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:13, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Maybe they should be in their own articles? --69.113.52.93 (talk) 03:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
In either case, I don't think such in-depth discussion of the live-action versions belong here.--Tærkast (Discuss) 18:01, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Time to start working on this article for FA?

All right. I have been pretty busy lately, but with the film's release date just less than a month coming, I think it's really that time to get this article up to FA status and possibly have that featured on April 16, 2013 (the film's 25th anniversary). If anyone wants to help get it up to FA status, please do so. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:20, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Remakes

Hi,

Nobody seems to have replied to Goodraise's question in "FA?" talk about the "Remakes" section. I've the kind of same reaction when reading this section: are those really remakes of the anime or other interpretations of the novel? What are the evidences?

--Lacrymocéphale 18:03, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

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Bibliography for new sources

Here is a bibliography for new sources that can be added and used in the article.

>Michio Mamiya interview transcript - from Minnesota Public Radio Music music.minnesota.publicradio.org

)>This is a radio interview of Michio Mamiya, the composer for the music of Grave of the Fireflies, from 29 May 2001. While it is mainly about a different piece of music, he does talk about his overall views on music in general which could be helpful in expanding the music section of the article.

>Interview: Studio Ghibli Production Coordinator Hirokatsu Kihara. Anime News Network

)>This is an interview with Hirokatsu Kihara, the production coordinator of Studio Ghibli. The very end of the interview mentions Grave of the Fireflies. Kihara mentions that there were three uncolored iterations of a scene, making Grave of the Fireflies technically unfinished. This could potentially be added to the development section.

>Grave of the Fireflies (Original Soundtrack) - GhibliWiki. www.nausicaa.net

)>This lists the original soundtrack for Grave of the Fireflies. This can be used to expand on the music section of the article.

Here is a link to my bibliography and references/citations.

Bibliography and References

Zrbelleisle (talk) 22:10, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

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