Talk:Given (manga)

A fact from Given (manga) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 7 May 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Given will be the first yaoi anime series to be broadcast on Noitamina, Fuji TV's anime programming block?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2019/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Given (manga).

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Episode titles linking to songs[edit]

Unless there is a reliable primary source citing which songs/albums the episode titles are referencing, they shouldn't be included in the article, otherwise it violates WP:OR. For example, "Boys in the Band" currently links to the Baldry album, but it could very well refer to Libertines DVD or the Gentle Giant song or the play of that same name. Morgan695 (talk) 04:07, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Morgan695: The episode titles are pretty much references to rock songs. You can use the same argument about linking episode titles with songs at Carole & Tuesday. lullabying (talk) 03:39, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Lullabying: I actually would make the same argument in Carole & Tuesday! Obviously some of the Given titles are relatively obvious references, like "Wonderwall" and "Fluorescent Adolescent", but there's enough ambiguity in some of them that I don't think they should be hyperlinked without a primary source verifying the reference (and it would be strange to hyperlink the obvious ones but not the ambiguous ones). Morgan695 (talk) 04:19, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Genre[edit]

For posterity, since this topic flares up as an edit war every few months: Given is a boys' love/BL series. This fact, I think, is not typically in dispute. Current consensus on Wikipedia dictates that the term "yaoi" should be used to describe all works that fall under the yaoi/shonen-ai-/boys' love/BL umbrella, as this is the most common term used to describe these works by western audiences. Therefore, Given is a yaoi series. Morgan695 (talk) 04:01, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Morgan695: WP:GENREWARRIOR is a good essay to read regarding the recent edits. If any more edit warring happens within a short time span you may consider asking for page protection from IP edits. lullabying (talk) 04:28, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I find it's best in situations like this to just revert the edits and indicate in the edit summary that the matter should be discussed on the talk page; if the IP editor persists, either request protection from IP edits or request the editor be suspended. It tends to be a pointless battle, as these type of editors are generally uninterested in following Wikipedia policy and tend to think that edit wars are a game where whoever hits "Publish changes" last wins. Morgan695 (talk) 15:15, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's not like you're going to write, «Given is yaoi without explicit content».

In Japan we don't use the same term for everything, not even the smallest bookstores.

Why is the term shōnen-ai used on different English Wikipedia pages? I will assume that not all of us believe that Western fans only use one term.

I was going to create an account to make my case more clearly. I use the translator to communicate (my English is clumsy) but I give up. I don't care anymore, Wikipedia has never been completely reliable. Even Wikipedia in Japanese has its flaws. I have checked different pages for Given in Wikipedia and in all of them, a different term is used. It's confusing.

Thank you for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2800:4F0:521:5C40:ED80:9B76:223F:1AFA (talk) 22:59, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:COMMONNAME (my emphasis added):

some topics have multiple names, and some names have multiple topics: this can lead to disagreement about which name should be used for a given article's title. Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources

The listed genre of Given varies across the series' articles in different languages because the series is classified as different genres in different languages. The series is listed as "BL" on the Japanese Wikipedia because that is how the majority of Japanese sources classify it; in other languages where "shonen-ai" is still commonly used, it may very well be listed as that. And while not all English-language fans use the term "yaoi", it is the most commonly used term, per the discussion on the yaoi talk page I linked above. Morgan695 (talk) 23:14, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As my mother tongue is Japanese, I naturally bought the manga in that language. In the details, Given was categorized as shōnen-ai, which literally, very literally means love between male persons. That's why I got confused, in a childish way, I must admit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2800:4F0:521:5C40:1C20:68F1:80B8:A5A7 (talk) 23:59, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's not an unreasonable assumption to make for someone whose primary context is Japanese fandom, and please don't let it discourage you from editing Wikipedia in the future. An increasing number of western fans are starting to use the term "BL", but the default is still very much to describe any manga/anime that depicts a romantic relationship between two men (sexual or non-sexual) as "yaoi". Morgan695 (talk) 00:49, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for using the talk page to communicate. But where in the manga did it say it was "shōnen-ai?" I looked through Natsuki Kizu's website per your message and checked the manga in its original text and I could not find it. These days, Japanese books categorize it as BL, and as Morgan695 mentioned, BL is more known as "yaoi" in the West, so per WP:COMMONNAME we must use that name unless the other editors agree to change it. On an off-hand note, I have to admit I find your explanations a little hard to believe when your IP address says you live in South America, not to mention that 少年愛 means pederasty, not "love between male persons." lullabying (talk) 02:17, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I use a VPN for privacy.

Shōnen, Otokonoko and Danshi are three terms for «boy». Ai and Koi, «love».

Shōnen: Boy Ai: Love

That's why I mentioned it was very literal. Although more terms are used for pederasty.

I bought the manga in physics, how can I insert a picture or clip directly?

Translating is annoying. I think a picture or video will speak for me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2800:4F0:521:5C40:ED80:9B76:223F:1AFA (talk) 03:03, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]