Talk:Ghaggar-Hakra River/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Problem of organisation

Seems like the problem with this article is one of organisation. I'm trying to think how it can be organised more clearly. It's about a river, actually a combination of two dried out rivers. And it sounds like the history is more important than the reality of the river today. Am I right? Sincerely, Mattisse(talk) 00:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:INDIA Banner/Rajasthan workgroup Addition

Note: {{WP India}} Project Banner with Rajasthan workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Rajasthan or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 07:00, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Unilateral Page Move

HotWinters (talk · contribs) tried to unilaterally change the longstanding (five year old) page name without any discussion. I have noticed that many of his edits seem to be anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan, and the page move from Ghaggar-Hakra River to Ghaggar River, had a similar tenor. Will other editors make sure that no more page moves of that sort are made without discussion here first? At the very least such a move is controversial and would require the "controversial" WP:RM. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:09, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Endorheic basin

Ok, so if this river doesn't run to either the Indus or Ganges basin, and it doesn't flow to the sea, then is this an endorheic drainage basin ? It does not seem to be listed on the list of endorheic basins nor marked on their map.Eregli bob (talk) 11:06, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Endorrheic, like diarrhea. 208.54.85.144 (talk) 03:56, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

old course of the river

Impossible a river flows up-hill! The Rajasthan plateau is altogether higher than the surrounding area. All the then and existent rivers took their way downhill, from a centre-top in all directions. Flow-off seems to have been bigger than rainfall. The desert is not totally the result of human activities. A comparison is perhaps possible with the Colorado sandstone rocks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.115.33.153 (talk) 13:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

You humans are all alike. When will you acknowledge your responsibility for causing the catastrophe in the Sahara? Don't you see what all that tea-drinking leads to? 172.56.26.54 (talk) 03:52, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Somebody do something!

"The narrow Ghaggar river bed itself is becoming suddenly wider...." I find this rather alarming. What if it gets out of hand? 208.54.85.248 (talk) 03:41, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Newest edits

@Kautilya3: and Fowler&Fowler.

I am seeing that Fowler&fowler has changed the long standing lead and reverted two times now. While it is nothing wrong to mention two arguments, acclaiming one to be speculation while other one to be speculation without having substantial debunking or reliable sources is not NPOV.

Not to forget the mass tagging of the article without prior discussion. D4iNa4 (talk) 04:48, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

There is nothing sacrosanct about a longstanding lead if it is based on primary sources (Max Muller, the orientalists, the 19th century indologists, ...) and the dubious musings of incipiently Hindu nationalist retired Archaeological Survey of India archaeologists. They obviously did not have the instrumentation that geologists have brought to bear today. I am in the process of adding the remaining references. Please do not revert until then. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:53, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
I have removed "speculation," "belied," and other charged words and made the lead more in line with current geophysical thinking. I have changed it in the lead only for now, so that the various sections can be corrected in light of the references given in the lead. Sadly, the notion that it was the Sarasvati of the Rig Veda that was irrigating the crops of the Harappans is now dead in the water. Most likely there were various monsoonal rivers. The Yamuna may have flowed west, but it was lost to the Indus (and won to the Ganges) long before there were settled cultures (even Neolithic) in upper South Asia. I have moved the multiple issue tags to the sections. Sorry my actions might have appeared arbitrary, but I am traveling and pressed for time. I think I know what I am doing. Please grant me the license to override Wikiettiquette. I don't mean to disparage the work of other, not by a long shot. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:08, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
@D4iNa4: We can't have a satisfactory lead until the article body is fixed. So, if you have the interest and access to sources, please fix the tagged problems. All sources should be authentic and peer-reviewed. This page is very important because Ghaggar-Hakra was a lifeline of the IVC. It should be as clean as possible. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 09:46, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
A bigger worry for me is that there is little or nothing about the real, gurgling, burping, swishing, lapping, river of today in which life forms live and off which life forms survive. In other words, there is nothing that WikiProject Rivers (see WP:RIVERS#Article_structure_guidelines recommends should exist in a river page. Nine tenths of the page is historical nonsense. Even if those are sourced, they don't belong to this page. They can be stuffed in the Sarasvati river page up to its gills, but please don't desecrate a beautiful living breathing river with the biases of dead humans. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:41, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
Well, we can only cover what is in the reliable sources, and the majority of it is likely to be about the history. - Kautilya3 (talk) 13:58, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

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Monsoons migrated?

Joshua Jonathan, The sentence "the monsoons that fed the rivers appear to have migrated to the east" seems rather earth-shaking. "Monsoon" generally refers to the moisture-filled clouds that come up from the Indian Ocean every year. They travel northeastwards until they reach the Himalayas and get stuck. After the sun travels to the southern hemisphere, they return, passing over the Indian subcontinent again and dropping some more rains.

Why the Thar desert should have formed has apparently to do with wind dynamics. As the ocean wind rushes into the Indian subcontinent, starting at Kerala, some wind has to blow back in the reverse direction to make way for the incoming winds. The northwest India is apparently the victim. To say that the monsoons moved "east", one would have to argue that the wind dynamics was different in the past. Do Giosan et al. say all this? Can you provide a quote? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:09, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't know; this is what already was in the article on the sarasvatie-river. But I'll try to check. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:13, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
@Kautilya3: I've corrected the sentences. Check-out Giosan (2012); it contains some nice maps, which show how the number of late Harappan sites grew at the upper Ghaggar chanel in the Punjab, coinciding with later Painted Grey Ware sites - which, of course, have also been attributed to the Aryans. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:48, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
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