Talk:Freddy Wexler

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COI edit requests

Hi! I'm here on behalf of Freddy Wexler with a few requests that will hopefully address the flags at the top of this article:

Lead

• I believe that Wexler's songwriting credits meet the standard of WP:COMPOSER, which should justify removing {{notability}}. Also, significant coverage includes Songwriter Universe and Music Business Worldwide.
• Update "Stuck with You" for Ariana Grande and Justin Bieber to "Stuck with U" with Ariana Grande and Justin Bieber, per source.

2005-2008

• Add to replace {{citation needed}} after the first sentence.
• Update Wexler soon landed to At 19, Wexler signed.
• Update

He went on to write songs for multiple recording artists and also wrote the promo-theme songs for the hit TV-shows "Dancing with the Stars" and "The Bachelorette.”

to

He subsequently wrote songs for multiple recording artists and television shows, including "Dancing with the Stars" and "The Bachelorette."

2008-2009

• In last sentence, update "sharing the stage" to "shared stages".

2009-2011

• Update Rachel Platten (singer of the Top 10 hit "Fight Song") to Rachel Platten.

2012-present

• Update In 2017, he released his first independent debut single “Streetlights On Mars” under the pseudonym Jackson Penn. to In 2017, he began releasing music under the pseudonym Jackson Penn.
• Delete The record hit #12 on the US Viral and #17 on Global Viral Spotify charts and garnered more than 3 million streams. He later released other hits such as "Sick in the Head" (2019) and "My Girl" (2019). as insufficiently sourced.
• Add: Wexler cowrote the single "Stuck with U" by Justin Bieber and Ariana Grande, which hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. Proceeds from the song benefitted families of COVID-19 first responders. Music Business Worldwide named Wexler one of the "World’s Greatest Songwriters" in 2020.

(Ref name already in use in article.)

Thanks for your time/feedback! Mary Gaulke (talk) 17:50, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

References

Hi @MaryGaulke: The requested edits have been implemented. I also corrected formatting of a few song titles in the discography. Orville^talk 00:21, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your help! Mary Gaulke (talk) 03:46, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

a couple more COI edit requests

Hi! COI editor for Freddy Wexler here again with a few more requests. Both ref names included below are already in use in the article:

Lead

• In first sentence, replace "executive" with "creator", per Variety.
• At end of second paragraph, update "SB Projects" to "Scooter Braun Projects".
• In final sentence, update "The Freddy Wexler Company, an entertainment company" to "The Freddy Wexler Company, a media company specializing in film and television", per Music Business Worldwide.

2012–present

• Add In 2020, Wexler was included in Variety's Family Impact List for film and television.

External links

• Delete Roxy Recordings, which is irrelevant to the subject matter.

Thanks for your time/help! Mary Gaulke (talk) 15:02, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

References

@MaryGaulke:  DoneI’ve implemented your changes. For future requests, please provide a more easily accessible citation (so that it takes less clicks for editors to find it and check it). Thank you. Ferkjl (talk) 10:23, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Understood. Thank you! Mary Gaulke (talk) 00:04, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Appearance of undisclosed paid editing

It was noted that TheAlmanac301 (talk · contribs) is essentially a single purpose account that has extensively edited this article and they've uploaded a very high resolution version of the article image asserting it as their own. I am finding exact copies of the same image everywhere with image credit "(PRNewsfoto/Sony/ATV)" yet none of the copies found online are marked CC-BY-SA Wikimedia TheAlmanac301, so this creates a reasonable cause to believe the edits are public relations/marketing advocacy edits. The neutrality issue that needs fixing includes unencyclopedic boastful start line like "is an American multi platinum award-winning songwriter, producer, creator, and entrepreneur" with only poor sources supporting it. Where I am seeing the same photo: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sonyatv-signs-worldwide-publishing-deal-with-freddy-wexler-301088455.html Graywalls (talk) 09:29, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

To get rid of the tag per WP:WTRMT, promotional huff, name drops in the lede that appears to be designed to elevate the profile of the subject needs to be trimmed off and, or moved to a more appropriate section. While I have not done a comprehensive WP:BEFORE check, there's a possibility that article deletion could be warranted. The article need to gravitate to dispassionate encyclopedic tone away from copywriting. Graywalls (talk) 23:10, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

@Graywalls: Hi! I see you restored {{notability}} based on the template being removed in August 2019 by TheAlmanac301, but that template was subsequently removed again in January by Orville after the discussion above, particularly this point:

I believe that Wexler's songwriting credits meet the standard of WP:COMPOSER, which should justify removing {{notability}}. Also, significant coverage includes Songwriter Universe and Music Business Worldwide.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

Also, I'd like to clarify (since it isn't clear from this post) that TheAlmanac301 has not edited this or any article in more than a year, long before I was involved in the article.

It looks like you've already updated the lead with some neutrality tweaks. To ameliorate the "name dropping", perhaps it would make sense simply to delete the names from that list added by TheAlmanac301: Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Demi Lovato, Zayn Malik, Steve Aoki, and Martin Garrix. Mary Gaulke (talk) 19:58, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't know if he meets notability. I just noticed that COI/U was the one who removed it, so I have undone it. If a neutral, non COI/U wants to remove the notability tag, I have no objection. You're not the reason the article was tagged UPE. The reason is that the article doesn't read like what you would expect a biography entry to look like in a professionally written encyclopedia, and a bunch of what that user did remains. So to get rid of it, it needs to be substantially re-edited or even fundamentally rewritten. If you'd like to do it, you could suggest it in talk, but I don't feel like re-writing the whole thing. Also, per Wikipedia:Paid-contribution_disclosure, through which employer are you working on behalf of the article subject? I do not see this article listed on your Userpage. Graywalls (talk) 10:11, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

@Graywalls: To be clear, this is the timeline: TheAlmanac301 removed the template in August 2019; Edwardx added it back in October 2019; and Orville, who is clearly not a COI editor, removed it again in January after the discussion above.

I'll address the UPE tag after we've resolved the notability question, but I do want to note that Wexler has been listed on my userpage, alphabetized by surname, since 12 January. He is a freelance client of mine, as I tried to make clear in the connected contributor template at the top of this page, although I'm not sure why the distinction is relevant here. I see that Wikipedia:Paid-contribution_disclosure has a different definition of "employer" vs. "client" than that which I conceived, so I'll update the template at the top of this page accordingly. Mary Gaulke (talk) 23:59, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Graywalls is correct that the article needs to be substantially rewritten because as it stands, it reads like a press release and is highly promotional in tone. There is also the question of how reliable the sources used are and how the article currently relies on primary rather than secondary sources. I think the notability issue can be resolved simply by addressing how many secondary sources exist for the subject, Freddy Wexler. Interviews and the like are primary. If there are at least a few reliable and verifiable secondary sources, then that requirement is fulfilled. The tag should remain for the time being. Mansheimer (talk) 02:39, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

The circumstances around the picture TheAlmanac301 uploaded is suspicious. They're denying they're a paid editor. So they just happened to be doing a professional photo shoot of him??. Graywalls (talk) 03:25, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

@Mary Gaulke:, could you check with your client on circumstances around how someone who says they're the author of the photo that also happens to be the Sony/ATV PR photo is editing his page directly? Graywalls (talk) 23:52, 13 April 2021 (UTC) @MaryGaulke:, since your display name and user name are formatted differently, the previously ping did not go through. Graywalls (talk) 15:56, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@Graywalls: Sorry for delayed response. From what Wexler has told me, he did not play a role in the addition of the photo, nor did he pay TheAlmanac301. As far as I can tell, it seems like TheAlmanac301 is simply a fan of Wexler's work who made a rookie Wikipedia mistake of misunderstanding the image rights guidelines when uploading someone else's photo. It looks like TheAlmanac301 offered a similar explanation on their talk page. That's all the information I have. Mary Gaulke (talk) 20:11, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Lady Gaga

The source used for the assertion concerning Lady Gaga seems questionable and possibly not reliable for biographical purposes: Music Business Worldwide. This is an interview with the subject Freddy Wexler, so it is a primary source, rather than secondary or tertiary, as required by Wikipedia. There is also no mention whatsoever of Wexler on Lady Gaga's article or in any bio article about her that I can find. Mansheimer (talk) 02:34, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

@Mansheimer: Hi! My understanding is that while quotations in interviews are primary sources, reported context around an interview (as is common in media profiles of public figures) isn't primary. From my reading of the MBW source, the Lady Gaga information is part of the author's reporting, not just Wexler's quotations and primary claims. What do you think? Mary Gaulke (talk) 20:04, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

addressing UPE, PR, and primary article flags

Hi again! As disclosed above, Wexler previously paid me to request some updates to this article. The article has gone through some substantial changes since then, including the addition of three new maintenance flags. Given how contentious this process has been, I'm hoping to get some kind of feedback and consensus on ideal next steps. Here's what I propose:

• For {{Undisclosed paid}}: The Who Wrote That? browser extension indicates that TheAlmanac301, the suspected undisclosed paid editor (who has denied any paid relationship with Wexler), has written a fairly small portion of the current article, mostly in "Select Discography". Would finding WP:RS for this information and ensuring it's all neutrally worded be enough to get that template removed?
• For {{Cleanup-PR}}: A lot of the less neutral language that was previously in the article has already been stripped out. Are there specific problem areas I should focus on to address this flag? Honestly, nothing in the current version of the article is jumping out at me, based on my sense of appropriate tone for comparable articles, which is why I'm hoping for some specific guidance on this one.
• For {{primary}}: I believe I know what needs to be done to address this. WP:PRIMARY states that "an article about a musician may cite discographies and track listings published by the record label", so I assume primary sources are permissible as part of the discography, but I can track down secondary replacements for primary sources elsewhere in the article.

@Orville, Ferkjl, Graywalls, and Mansheimer: Pinging you all since you've previously worked on this article, in case you'd like to weigh in on the above questions.

Thanks! Mary Gaulke (talk) 20:35, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

@MaryGaulke: I'd let Graywalls chime in, as they were the ones cleaning up the article and putting up the flags. My edit was very minor (probably an Edit Request). Ferkjl (talk) 15:05, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

@Graywalls: Following up – would love your input in particular here, since I believe you were the one who placed the flags, when you get a chance. Otherwise, I'll proceed with the course of action outlined above and open a new edit request soon. Mary Gaulke (talk) 21:18, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@MaryGaulke:, The user in question had full resolution picture of the same picture as the PR, along with full meta data at higher resolution than the pictures used for PR. It's unconvincing that they're not related in some fashion. Graywalls (talk) 23:26, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Graywalls: I'm afraid I simply don't have any more information on that. I don't know TheAlmanac301. I'm just trying to leave this article in better condition than I found it. Let me know if you have any thoughts on the plan I proposed above. Mary Gaulke (talk) 13:31, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

COI edit requests to address primary sources flag

Hi! As noted above, I am a COI editor for Freddy Wexler. Hoping to address the flags at the top of the article so I can leave this article better than I found it. I shared some notes and questions on {{Undisclosed paid}} and {{Cleanup-PR}} above, but it sounds like {{primary}} may be the most straightforward to address, so I'm starting there.

• In the lead, where it says

Wexler is the founder of The Brain Music,

I think we can just delete the first ref, which both appears to be primary and is a broken link. The second ref confirms the information.

• Also in the lead:

The Brain has joint ventures with Disney, Scooter Braun Projects, Warner Chappell, and Prescription (Rx) Songs.

Let's replace the second ref with <ref name="Kawashima"/> – the same ref used in the next paragraph.

• The last line of the lead:

Wexler is also known by the pseudonym Jackson Penn, under which he has released several records.

That first ref to a press release can just be deleted; the second ref covers the same information.

• In "2005-2008":

Wexler's first commercial success was as a producer on a single for singer Marion Raven (of Norwegian pop duo M2M) which he coproduced with Nikki Sixx of Mötley Crüe.

I couldn't find a WP:RS for this, so it may be best just to delete it.

• At beginning of "2012-present", update

In February 2012, Wexler founded The Brain Music, a cross-platform record label, artist management company, and publishing company.

to

Wexler founded The Brain Music, a cross-platform record label, artist management company, and publishing company.

In order to replace the second ref and revise the text to reflect the information available in the refs.

• At end of "2012-present", delete

In May 2020, Wexler cowrote the #1 Billboard single "Stuck with U" for Ariana Grande and Justin Bieber, a charity single benefitting families of first responders.

which is redundant of information earlier in the same paragraph.

I know this article will need additional cleanup after this, but hopefully this helps warrant the removal of {{primary}}. Thanks! Mary Gaulke (talk) 17:12, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Adding request edit template and pinging @Graywalls: in case you'd like to take a look, as the one who originally placed the flag. Mary Gaulke (talk) 14:57, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

References

 Done I have implemented the changes as suggested below, and also removed the 'primary sources' tag. Jack Frost (talk) 06:20, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

COI edit requests to address remaining flags

Hi! COI editor for Freddy Wexler here again. Now that {{primary}} has been addressed, some edit requests to address {{Undisclosed paid}} and {{Cleanup-PR}}. Breaking them out by section:

2005-2008

*Update

Wexler started as an A&R intern for Sony Music where he pitched an unknown artist, Stefani Germonatta, as “the next Madonna.” Germonatta, whose early demos Wexler recorded, went on to become Lady Gaga.

to

Wexler began his career as an A&R intern for Sony Music. In this role, he pitched then-unknown artist Stefani Germonatta (who would become Lady Gaga) as "the next Madonna" and recorded her early demos.

• Update

At 19, Wexler landed his own record deal with Virgin Records where he shared stages with bands like Maroon 5, Good Charlotte, and Simple Plan.

to

At 19, Wexler signed a record deal.

(Deleted the second half of the sentence because I assume the "shared stages" part was considered puffery, and Virgin Records isn't verified by the cited source; it appears to be confirmed only in direct quotations from Wexler.)

• Update

From there, he wrote and produced full-time for other artists and inked a contract with EMI Music Publishing.

to

He then wrote and produced full-time for other artists and signed a contract with EMI Music Publishing.

2008-2009

• Update

While attending college, Wexler received an on-air phone call from celebrity morning show host Kidd Kraddick. Kraddick proposed a challenge—to drive from Philadelphia to Texas, playing shows along the way. Wexler accepted and embarked on what stations across the country promoted as the "Freddy Needs Gas Tour."

to

While Wexler was attending college, celebrity morning show host Kidd Kraddick called him on the air and invited him to participate in a weeklong tour concluding with a performance on Kraddick's show.

• Delete

He received nearly $10,000 of fan donations in just four days, which he donated to Kraddick's charity: Kidd's Kids. The positive response to Wexler's music led to his move to Dallas, where he became a cohost on "Kidd Kraddick in the Morning."

I couldn't find this verified in any independent source.

• Delete

Wexler performed on major television morning shows and shared stages with acts like Maroon 5, Good Charlotte, Paramore, Katy Perry, Forever the Sickest Kids, The New Temptations, Gym Class Heroes, Simple Plan, Ryan Cabrera, and Colbie Caillat.

Seems like puffery to me, and also undue given the nature of the source.

Hopefully this brings this article more in line with a neutral tone. Please let me know if there's anything else I should work on to justify removing {{Undisclosed paid}} and {{Cleanup-PR}} from this article. Thanks for your time and your help. Mary Gaulke (talk) 00:36, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

@MaryGaulke: Y Your request has been answered. After reviewing some major producer pages (e.g.Metro Boomin, Scott Storch, Rick Rubin), the career section seems unnecessary, especially since the Selected Discography section immediately follows. I recommend either removing the career section altogether or alternatively indicating in the lede the artists with whom Wexler is best known for collaborating. Thanks, Heartmusic678 (talk) 13:26, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

@Heartmusic678: That makes perfect sense to me. Does anything else need to happen in order to get the cleanup templates at the top of the article removed? Thanks for your help! Mary Gaulke (talk) 13:00, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

@MaryGaulke and Graywalls: I believe the article is greatly improved and carries a more neutral tone than in previous edits. However, after reading through previous discussions, I'm going to defer to Graywalls. Heartmusic678 (talk) 13:27, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

@Graywalls: Let us know if you'd like to weigh in here. Mary Gaulke (talk) 18:12, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

@Mansheimer and MaryGaulke: I'd like Mansheimer to weigh in as well given they worked on the article and appears to be neutral. TheAlmanac301 (talk · contribs) still appears as the dominant authorship. We assume WP:AGF in absence of reasonable evidence. I'm not convinced with their denial. The photo originally uploaded by TheAlmanac301 was removed on copyright ground. That photo was a photo that looks identical to the commonly circulated press release photos of Wexler, but in higher resolution than what's out there, but press photos do not attribute to CC-BY-SA. So there's circumstantial evidence of covert PR effort. While that user denied, the high level of authorship, the contribution pattern, the fact they were in possession of what appears to be the master copy (high resolution) of the widely circulated press photo, and the widely circulated photos in various outlets do not carry forward the Creative Commons license is indicative of presence of covert PR efforts. Since their contribution still remains in significant proportion in contents as well as the way it is presented I think the page curation still represents undue coverage in showcasing what the PR efforts wants covered. I'll leave it to others to weigh in. I see this hasn't been discussed on COI/N yet. Would anyone be interested in taking this to COI/N to obtain consensus on their COI despite their denial, and identify any additional undisclosed COI/PR accounts? Graywalls (talk) 22:34, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

The article has been significantly cleaned up, which is always an improvement, but it still comes across as PR-like and some of the sources remain problematic as I indicated before, such as Music Business Worldwide, Songwriter Universe, and Anthem Magazine for example. Can these really be described as reliable sources for this type of information (especially since the MBW article appears to be based on an interview with the subject)? The assertion that Wexler discovered Lady Gaga and got her started in the business (which is what the sentence in the article is implying), based on those articles, appears to be sourced to Wexler himself. This is a pretty major assertion that needs to be reliably sourced and there is not even apparently any comment from Lady Gaga or any sources detailing her life and career on this angle. In my opinion, unless there is confirmation from sources other than Wexler himself, this assertion doesn't belong in the article. Mansheimer (talk) 09:10, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

References

Lady Gaga

Please stop pushing this bit about Wexler "discovering" Lady Gaga until you provide a solidly reliable WP:RS source, preferably from a number of such sources, to back up this claim. The current "source" is nothing but promo fluff and totally useless for our purposes on Wikipedia and may in actuality be totally false. Anyone can make these claims and get some PR outlet to promote the falsehood. Mansheimer (talk) 10:49, 6 August 2023 (UTC)