Talk:Elijah (oratorio)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Wagner anti-semitism

Wagner's anti-semitism seems overplayed and is very likely POV. Bryan Magee in "The Tristan Chord" very reputably shows that Wager's anti-semitism is no more agregious than any other of his time, he just wrote about it and used it to his own ends in his very public, Wagnerian way. I'll have a better citation soon, but we should rework this. What's the source? Is that from Rosen as well? Fred 13:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello, the source is the WP Wagner article - I suggest you check out the extensive discussion there. Opus33 17:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I know its been a year, but there should still be an explicit citation for this here. Point to a line in Das Judenthum in der Musik or whatever.

I do find it odd to point out in the article that Wagner didn't like the work musically and then to parenthetically add that anti-semitism led him to that musical opinion. Its playing up a controversy unnecessarily in the wrong place (the controversy belongs in the Wagner articles). Can we focus on Shaw's criticism or did he also have an ulterior motive? DavidRF (talk) 04:43, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Mendelson born to Jewish family

I recently heard on a radio show that although Mendelssohn's grandfather was a Jewish scholar, his parents converted to Christianty; which would mean he was not necessarily brought up in a Jewish tradition. Any insights or citations? mamadator 15:39, 07 December 2008 (UTC)

A Visitor's Guide to Elijah

Please add this item to the "see also" Thank you! Amiged (talk) 17:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Student Elijah

The oratorio was originally named for Elijah Meadow, a student at a local university, who reminded Mendelssohn of the biblical figure. Meadow, at times an arrogant figure, was said to have commented on the song: "It represents me well, I think. I rather wish it had more explicit references to my name, however ... a little rude, but a passable tune." This passage, added to The Biblical narrative, would need a reference and a fitting position in the article. It's not Biblical, smile. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem

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Historical development of the oratorio, particularly the text

The 3rd paragraph, "Mendelssohn originally composed the work . . .", gives the impression that it was composed some time before the Birmingham Festival and only needed to be translated into English from the German libretto provided by Klingemann. This does not seem to be the case.

The preface to the Novello edition states that Mendelssohn and (Karl) Klingemann had discussed the idea of an Elijah oratorio 1836 to 1838 but nothing came of it. 1838-39 Mendelssohn similarly exchanged ideas with (Pastor Julius)Schubring, again with little result. It was only in July 1845 when the Birmingham Festival commissioned a piece from Mendelssohn that he actually got down to serious writing, involving Schubring in December. The English translation was provided by (William) Bartholomew in June/July 1846, the last couple of months before the first performance, working from the Mendelssohn/Schubring German version still under development, guided by frequent correspondence with Mendelssohn. After the première on 26th August 1846 Mendelssohn extensively revised the piece before further performances in 1847.

References:

1. Preface to "Mendelssohn Elijah"; The New Novello Choral Edition; 1991 Novello & Co Ltd

2. The History of Mendelssohn's Oratorio 'Elijah'; FG Edwards; Novello, Ewer & Co, 1896 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.236.52 (talk) 16:29, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

RfC Hebrew text???

Why is there a column for the Hebrew text? Is there any reliable source that makes references to it? As far as I see, the oratorio is in German, the composer was German and there's no reason to believe he spoke Hebrew. It is also very clear that he composed his music to the German text. I will therefore remove the relevant portions of the table. 69.165.196.103 (talk) 00:01, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

I agree that Hebrew is not helpful. English is, the premiere of the piece was in English in Birmingham. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:11, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

All is well that ends well. Thanks for the second opinion. 69.165.196.103 (talk) 00:33, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

In Old Testament we have:

The Old Testament is the first section of the Christian Bible, based primarily upon the Hebrew Bible (or Tanakh), a ollection of religious writings by ancient Israelites

A convenient column with links to the original Hebrew text may validate and even clarify the true meaning of the German or English text used by Mendelssohn.
This is especially helpful for choir members that work and rehearse with the German (or English) text, but do read and understand Hebrew.
Not a similar case, but still, we have in the page: Aristotle Aristotle (/ˈærɪˌstɒtəl/;[1] reek: Ἀριστοτέλης Greek pronunciation: [aristotélɛːs], Aristotélēs; 384–322 BC)[2]

with links to old Greek pronunciation: Help:IPA for Greek Yotamm (talk) 10:50, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

I think it's interesting for the rather few people who read Hebrew, but not justified as separate column. With the positions in the Bible given, it should be easy to find each bit in a Hebrew version if interested. The column might be taken to the Hebrew Wikipedia. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:10, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Biblical References

In the description of movement 33 (Herr, es wird Nacht um mich | Night falleth round me, Lord! ) The reference to: 1 Kings 19:11-25 needs correction. This chapter contains only 21 verses. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yotamm (talk • contribs) 10:59, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

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