Talk:Dutchman (repair)
 | This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. |
Rename to Dutchman (repair)[edit]
Right now this article is limited to the the metal piece that repairs train tracks. It seems that Dutchman also refers to repairs of other small pieces, often wood or metal, in construction. There are plenty of references describing the latter usage, though nothing I can find goes into the etymology or mentions both uses. Maybe this one does? http://www.jstor.org/stable/453770?seq=1#page_thumbnails_tab_contents? I can't access JSTOR. Bottom line is I think that this page should be Dutchman (repair). Bangabandhu (talk) 20:20, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed. the term is also used, for instance, for repairs -usually inadequate - to cast firearms and cannon.
- The etymology is quite likely ethnic slur; many USanian slang meanings of "dutch" imply ersatz. Anmccaff (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
Recent edits[edit]
Rather than this stream of reversions and unsourced additions, I think we need some good citations. Also the text currently reads " (The use of this term in firefighting and ropework is probably unrelated etymologically.)" which is hardly encyclopedic, @Anmccaff: and @NearEMPTiness:. Can anyone access this JSTOR article? Bangabandhu (talk) 11:10, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- this cite also shows up in Green's Torching the Fink Books and Other Essays on Vernacular Culture, which I can only find as read-only. It's about shipyard, cabinetmakers, and stonemason's use, and I'm not sure, frankly, how useful it could be if it misses so many other usages. Anmccaff (talk) 18:15, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- PS:my libraries all seem to want 15 bucks to download it. Anmccaff (talk) 18:23, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, I cannot access any pay-per-view sites. I believe that Inserting the photograph would be good, although Anmccaff doesn't seem to like it. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 18:52, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- I propose to review the following paragraph here on the discussion page, and then, after commenting on all objections, to insert it into the article:--NearEMPTiness (talk) 19:41, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, I cannot access any pay-per-view sites. I believe that Inserting the photograph would be good, although Anmccaff doesn't seem to like it. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 18:52, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
- PS:my libraries all seem to want 15 bucks to download it. Anmccaff (talk) 18:23, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Railroading[edit]
In railroading, a Dutchman is colloquially a short air brake extension hose[1] or a temporary rail repair[2].
A rail repair Dutchman is typically a 4-6 inch (100-150 mm) long piece of rail that is cut in advance for this purpose and carried by a section crew. If inspection and maintenance gangs find a chipped or broken rail end, they remove the fishplates, cut out the broken section, replace it with the Dutchman and reapply the fishplates by bolts. This is a temporary repair commonly used in winter, while the track is filled with snow and ice. When the track thawes, these temporary repairs have to be fixed permanently with new rails.
Earlier use of Thermite rail welding used an approximately ¾ inch section of railhead, also called a Dutchman, between the sections being joined, with only the web and foot being new Thermite steel.
- To begin with, use of plug rail isn't just for emergency repairs, isn't just used in the winter, and has nothing particular to do with snow and ice in most cases. Look at File:DETAIL VIEW OF DUTCHMAN, STUB SWITCH, AND TYPICAL MAINLINE ATTACHMENT - Electron Hydroelectric Project, Along Puyallup River, Electron, Pierce County, WA HAER WASH,27-ELEC,1-49.tif. That's been there a while, and may have been deliberately made that way from the beginning. If the operating speeds are low, or the load is light, short plug rail is workable as a permanent solution. It's also worth noting that there are several other options for repair, full overlay bridge products are seen a lot more, although they generally reduce operating speed to a crawl. (Finally, many rail maintenance people will only mention cutting and drilling working rail with a torch to condemn it. It isn't seen as BMP by any means, and it's good that you left it out here, unlike the older versions.)
- Next, note the quality of the cite. Doesn't exactly drip expertise, does it? Anmccaff (talk) 07:59, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- Even so, I object to the photograph and at least some of the information on the use of the term Dutchman for the temporary repair of rails to be deleted. The article was initially written about this type of temporary repair. I agree to the information on repair in woodworking has been added. However, there is no need to remove the photograph and the relevant information on temporary rail repair. The clever bit: If a rail end is chipped or broken, this will be removed by oxyacetylene cutting, and a piece of rail that had been cut in advance will be inserted with the same fish plates that had been removed before: One hole of the fishplate is attached by bolts to the shortended rail, one hole is attached to the Dutchman and two holes are attached to the undamaged rail end. I don't think that this is good practice, but it seems to be common enough, to be mentioned in the article. Maybe someone else can enter the photograph again put this into words that are acceptable to Anmccaff. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 05:35, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- Nothing "clever" about that bit; that's the effup that saves an hour now, and costs a day later. Rail shouldn't be cut or drilled by burning if it is expected to remain in service long. A first-class plug rail section is a permanent repair...and the piece inserted is also called a dutchman on some roads....And the jerry-built type you describe isn't called a dutchman on some roads, plug rail is used for anything from just-shy-of-20-feet to a 4 inch stub some places, or at least was. And in steam days, most dutchmen were found in the locomotives themselves. This is taking a single, minor usage of a word, from a less-than-expert source, and applying it across the boards...which I believe you've done quite enough of already. Anmccaff (talk) 17:15, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- Even so, I object to the photograph and at least some of the information on the use of the term Dutchman for the temporary repair of rails to be deleted. The article was initially written about this type of temporary repair. I agree to the information on repair in woodworking has been added. However, there is no need to remove the photograph and the relevant information on temporary rail repair. The clever bit: If a rail end is chipped or broken, this will be removed by oxyacetylene cutting, and a piece of rail that had been cut in advance will be inserted with the same fish plates that had been removed before: One hole of the fishplate is attached by bolts to the shortended rail, one hole is attached to the Dutchman and two holes are attached to the undamaged rail end. I don't think that this is good practice, but it seems to be common enough, to be mentioned in the article. Maybe someone else can enter the photograph again put this into words that are acceptable to Anmccaff. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 05:35, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
References[edit]
Word origin[edit]
There are several plausible reasons for this word: a particular type of repair actually introduced or popularized by people from the Netherlands; a stereotype of the Dutch as frugal (or stingy) and therefore favouring repair over replacement; plus a number of others. Whatever the truth is would be a welcome addition to the article. TooManyFingers (talk) 17:45, 23 August 2021 (UTC)