Talk:Dr. No (novel)/Archive 1

Page move

According to the first UK edition of Dr. No, illustrated here there is correctly a period after Dr. I will be fixing the links accordingly shortly. I've also replaced the 2002 reprint cover with the 1958 first edition, which clearly shows a period after Dr. 23skidoo 17:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Dr. No first edition.jpg

Image:Dr. No first edition.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The deletion of this image is in violation of one of the tenets of WP:NOVEL and they've been notified. 23skidoo 20:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Drnopenguin.jpg

Image:Drnopenguin.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DrNoNovel.jpg

Image:DrNoNovel.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Making political points in Contemporary Popular Reference section

While I question the need for this section at all, I found this sentence to violate a neutral point-of-view: The reference is curious as the fictional villain Dr. No is a biracial male raised by extended family like Sen. Obama. This is completely irrelevant to the article, and, in my opinion, is a thinly-veiled accusation of racism thrown at Sen. McCain. The fact that the NY Times would refer to Sen. Coburn as Dr. No, when Coburn is not biracial and was not raised by extended family, discredits the claim. "Dr. No" is simply a way of pointing out that someone blocks a lot of bills.--AndrewSaint (talk) 18:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

• I support your edit. If 0.000001% of the people who use the moniker "Dr. No" for politicians have any actual knowledge of the character's background, I'll be very surprised. I agree - the racial speculation was unacceptable. I'd need to find a link before it was added to the article, but there's a local alderman here in Calgary, Canada who regularly blocks (or opposes) bylaws that require the spending of a lot of money, and he's also known as "Dr. No". Near as I can tell, he's as WASP as they come. 23skidoo (talk) 17:37, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I have decided to delete the section on the grounds that this article is about Dr. No, a James Bond novel. Nothing has been provided to suggest that these contemporary uses are directly inspired by the novel. If anything they're more likely to be inspired by the film. 23skidoo (talk) 18:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

• I've reverted an unregsistered user's attempt to put the information back. Show me a source that says, for example, that Barack Obama is being nicknamed Dr. No directly because of the 1950s novel by Ian Fleming, not the 1962 film or the character Julius No, then let's talk. Once again, this line of information -- if relevant -- belongs in the article on the movie or the character. 23skidoo (talk) 17:56, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dr. No (novel)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Yllosubmarine (talk · contribs) 15:49, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I will complete my review within the next day or two. Thanks in advance for your patience -- and while you're waiting, perhaps you'd like to take some time to review a similar article? María (habla conmigo) 15:49, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

First of all, I know very little about the Bondverse (is that a thing or am I just making it up?) -- so this is a review from a near-complete outsider! Overall the article seems in good shape: it's seemingly comprehensive, well-sourced, and it mostly follows the MOS. I have some comments/suggestions to make, mainly about the prose, before I can promote to GA:

Toolbox

• According to the toolbox links to the left, there is one EL ("Devil May Care, by Sebastian Faulks, writing as Ian Fleming; For Your Eyes Only, by Ben Macintyre" at independent.co.uk) which keeps timing out. I tried to access the link myself and it wouldn't load for me.

 Done I noticed this last night and thought it would be back up by today! I've given an alternative reference for the same article in a different publication, but at least it's a solid reference in there. - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:43, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Lead

• I'm a big fan of a lead that goes in chronological order to how the article is organized, so for me this sentence (the second one in the lead) seems out of place: "It was the first of Fleming's novels to receive large-scale negative criticism."
• This book's eponymous villain was influenced by Sax Rohmer's Fu Manchu stories. -- Why "this" book, and not "the" book?
• a Chinese operator of a guano mine on the Caribbean island of Crab Key and Bond travels there to inspect further. -- Not a big deal at this point, but I see quite a few issues with missing commas, which tend to confuse the reader and sometimes create run-on sentences: "island of Crab Key, and Bond travels..."
• Dr. No has been was serialised in the Daily Express newspaper in both written and comic strip format and was the first James Bond feature film of the Eon Productions series, released in 1962 and starring Sean Connery -- Borderline run-on; end sentence after "format" perhaps?
• Lead could be expanded per WP:LEAD to include more about the Reception/Reviews, perhaps even Fleming's thoughts on the story? These ideas make up so much of the article, it seems strange not to better summarize them in the lead.

 Done - Let me know if you're happy with it as it stands: I can always change a few bits of around if you need. - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:43, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Plot

• The first sentence here is rather long and slightly confusing. In particular I'm not sure what "and his secretary" means here, since there may or may not be a comma missing after "Jamaica".
• the island is said to be the home of a vicious dragon whilst at one end is a colony of Roseate Spoonbills -- Not sure that "whilst at one end" is the correct wording here... is it meant to connect the dragon speculation with the Spoonbills?
• two of whose representatives had died when their plane crashed on Dr. No's airstrip. -- This makes it sound as if we're discussing Spoonbill representatives, which is a funny mental image, although I'm sure that the representatives are from Audubon. Again, split up the sentence and check comma usage.
• No was previously a member of a Chinese Tong, who had been tortured and had his hands cut off by order of the Tong leaders... -- With the comma where it is, it looks like the "who" is referring to "Chinese Tong", but I'm guessing that it was No who had been tortured, etc. How about something like "While a member of the Chinese Tong, No had been tortured..."?
• No is interested in the ability of the human body to withstand and survive pain and stress and Bond is forced to crawl and climb through an obstacle course constructed in a section of the facility's ventilation system. -- and and and. Commas will help here.
• ...diverting the guano flow from it to bury the villain alive in bird dung -- Although hilarious, the "in bird dung" seems a little repetitive, since we already know what guano is.

 Done – ALl plot points. - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:06, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Characters and themes

• There are two main themes that run through Dr. No: the meaning of power and friendship and loyalty -- This looks like three main themes to me. Comma?
• The concept of friendship and loyalty is the second major theme and the feelings are mutually felt... -- Beginning of a run-on.
• ...and this follows a pattern that the women Bond comes across are somehow different to the norm... -- Beginning of a run-on. Don't be afraid to start new sentences instead of using an "and".
• Dr. No is seen as "a wickedly successful villain"... -- by whom? Benson?
• Something to keep in mind, but not necessary for this review process: Should there not be a little discussion here about the main character? I understand this is one of many, many articles dealing with Bond, but a little bit about his history/growth in this particular book, if it's available in the sources, may help flesh it out if you wish to take this to FA or some-such.

 Partly done - I'll work on the Bond character separately over the next week or so, as I'm a little tied up with work at the moment. - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:06, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Background

• Fleming's inspiration for the Dr. No character was Sax Rohmer's villain Dr Fu Manchu, the books about who Fleming had read and enjoyed in earlier years. This point is already noted in the above section; why repeat it?
• ...which he wrote in January and February 1957 at his Goldeneye estate in Jamaica with the title of The Wound Man. -- "with the title" seems disconnected from the subject of the rest of the sentence. Begin a new thought perhaps, something like "the novel was originally titled..." with a short reference as to what "Wound Man" referred to? (I'm guessing No?)
• Fleming borrowed names from his friends and associates to use in his book and so Ivar Bryce's housekeeper, May Maxwell, became Bond's Scottish "treasure" May. -- Nix the "and"; use semi-colon or start new sentence.
• Rather ungallantly Fleming named the guano-collecting ship in Dr. No as Blanche. -- Funny, but "rather ungallantly" seems like editorializing to me.

 Done - All elements done, although there is no information available about who or what "Wound Man" refers to. Like you, I presume it is Dr. No, but no confirmation on that... - SchroCat (^ • @)

Release and reception

• Is there a reason two differently styled quote boxes are used here? It seems that consistency would be better here, especially since they're so close together.

Yes: one is a normal quote box (which is how it should be used) whilst the other is in the pull quote format, which is for pulling out information that is quoted in the text as well. - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:06, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks for pointing that out! María (habla conmigo) 15:13, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

• he wanted this echoed in the cover, which he wanted showing her on a Venus elegans shell; the final artwork was undertaken by Pat Marriott. Repetition with "he wanted" here.
• Although Johnson recognises that in Bond there... -- One of my pet-peeves: the previous sentence refers to Johnson's review in the past tense, and here it refers to it in the present tense. I know it's difficult with reception sections, but try to pick one tense and stick to it.

 Done - with the exception of the quote boxes. - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:06, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Adaptations

• Generally, the MOS disparages using bullet lists where prose would suffice. Not a big deal at this stage, but consider fleshing out the bullet points to full sentences and constructing a paragraph or two.

The Adaptions are like this in all the Bond novels. I originally put these down as sub-sub sections, but was advised in the first review to change them to the current format by the reviewer - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:06, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Like I said, it's not a big deal. However, despite what a previous reviewer may have told you, see this MOS point: "Do not use lists if a passage is read easily as plain paragraphs." The items listed in this article's "Adaptations" section consist of complete sentences. Therefore, they work better as paragraphs -- fleshed out and connected -- not singled-out bullet points (which are typically not complete sentences). María (habla conmigo) 15:13, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Not a problem: Now  Done - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:43, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

That about sums it up. Like I said above, my several "further down the line, you might want to think about" comments aren't strictly speaking necessary for promotion to GA, they might still improve the article. The main issue I see for now is the prose, but for now a few fixes here and there will suffice. I'll put the article on hold for now, so take your time to consider my suggestions. If you have any questions, let me know! María (habla conmigo) 14:20, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

The description of Bond apart, is there anything more you'd like to see addressed on this article? I think I've covered all your points, but please let me know if there is anything I've missed. Many thanks - SchroCat (^ • @) 19:36, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

A couple more

It looks like the major points noted above have been largely resolved, and so quickly! Nice work. A couple more things (again, not too major, but since we're on a roll...)

• I made a slight c-e to the plot with this edit, but be sure to check for errors. Although these changes admittedly add to the length, to me it makes more sense. I hope. That the leaders ordered his hand removed and that he be shot is what I surmise, so again, correct me if I'm wrong! I also added a couple grammatical/punctuation fixes. What do you think?
• Is it Dr. No or Doctor No? This should be consistent throughout.
• The "Adaptations" section looks so much better! I think you've made the right choice.

Once the above two issues are looked into, I'll be happy to promote this to GA. Thanks! María (habla conmigo) 12:57, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi there. The edits you've made the the plot are all correct and in keeping with what was there before, so thanks for those. I've changed the "Doctor" to "Dr." where needed (except within a quote). I missed those earlier in my ce, so thanks for spotting them! Cheers - SchroCat (^ • @) 14:17, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

No prob! Okay, I believe the article now fulfills the criteria, and can therefore be promoted -- congrats! On a side note, I enjoyed reading the article and fleshing out my paltry knowledge of 007. ;) Thanks for your speedy as well as dedicated work, and best of luck! María (habla conmigo) 15:22, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

That's great news: thanks very much indeed for all your work on this! - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:35, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Shroedinger, you are starting to seriously piss me off

You don't WP:OWN this article. Superfluous details to you, are not to others. There is a reason WHY Dr. No has no hands-- it relates directly to theft. And why even mention dextrocardia (which this article does) without mentioning the fact that dextrocardia is the reason WHY Dr. No is alive, with no hands? By contrast, what's the point of mentioning some of the things this synopsis has, such as whether the poison in the last book was tetrodotoxin, or that it was administered by Rosa Klebb? Not important, except in THAT novel. All we need to know is that Bond is in Jamiaca recovering from poisoning in that novel.

As for the spiders, Bond himself is aware that the point of them is not their poisonousness (which isn't large as they aren't meant to kill him) but the fear factor of the fact that he is supposed to encounter them in the dark (though he doesn't, due to the lighter and wire). So it is their size that is relevant. Thus, I'm going to revert, and if you're tempted to re-revert, we should solicit opinions of other people who know this novel. SBHarris 18:39, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to intrude, but seeing as how I'm currently reviewing this article for GAC, I thought I may as well give my opinion. First, this isn't such a big deal as to become "seriously" pissed off about it, IMHO; let's calm down. The plot summary version here (prior to Sbharris' last revert) already mentions theft: "No had previously been a member of a Chinese Tong, but after he stole a large amount of money from their treasury, he had been tortured and had his hands cut off by order of the Tong leaders." The cause and effect is established: No stole money, so he was tortured, and had his hands cut off (note the comma placement, so torture and hand removal are separate things). So, the addition of "as a sign of punishment for theft" does indeed seem redundant, if not superfluous. I believe that the addition of No's dextrocardia to the plot summary is interesting, since it ties into his background and (I guess?) explains why he's so cruel: he was shot, the Tong thought him dead (?), but he survived because of a congenital defect. I think it's incorrect to refer to this rare trait as a "freak accident", however; if this brief explanation for his survival were to stay in the summary, it should be reworded to be made more brief/less sensational. It's also confusing for the summary to say (which it does currently) that No was "shot through the heart", but he survived because he wasn't shot through the heart -- this needs to be clarified, if only because it reads poorly.

As for the size of the spiders, it's only one word. If the spiders are indeed notably large, call them large. I hope this helps, María (habla conmigo) 19:07, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

One edit and I "start to piss you off"? I actually find that quite funny... Oh, and no: I don't think this is my article: I think this is an article I've been working on recently. No more and no less. Just because I changed one of your edits, please try and keep a sense of perspective and balance.

Although I don't agree with the changes made I'm not going to be as petty as to get into an edit war. Life is too short. Try and remember this, however: this is a plot summary. Whether Dr. No has hands or claws if not crucial to the plot, neither is how he came to have the hands or claws. Please see WP:PLOTSUMNOT for further information and if you want to talk about it further, without the aggressive notes or profanity, then I'll be glad to chat it over a little with you. - SchroCat (^ • @) 19:32, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

PS. As for the spiders, I didn't change your edit, so I'm not entirely sure what you're point is.... - SchroCat (^ • @) 19:44, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Point taken on the size of the spiders. However, I think you're missing the point about Julius No. The punishment for theft is to kill you and leave your corpse handless as a sign to others that you've been killed for theft. Of course the Tong in question intended to kill him and thought he was dead; he makes that clear to Bond. No's handlessness and the reason for it and essential plot points, certainly covered by WP:PLOTSUM. I agree with the changes made since, to make this clear.

And by the way, the thought-experimental cat with its life/death in quantum superposition is a mental creation of Schroedinger or Schrödinger, but never "Schrodinger." SBHarris 20:31, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

"No" or "no"

Is doctors name "No": an oriental name "No" or an english word 'no' used as name? --RicHard-59 (talk) 15:05, 14 October 2012 (UTC)