Talk:Desmond Tutu/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

I'm planning to review Desmond Tutu. Eubulides (talk) 17:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The review is not complete (many sections are still empty) but I am posting it as I go. I'll let you know when I'm finished. Eubulides (talk) 18:45, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I finished the review, which you can read below. Eubulides (talk) 08:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Prose[edit]

Lead[edit]

  • As per WP:LEAD the lead should summarize the body, but the following statements in the lead do not appear to summarize anything in the body. They should be removed, or should be reworded to summarize the body, or the body should be changed to expand on them:
  • "Tutu was elected and ordained the first black South African Anglican Archbishop of Cape Town, South Africa, and primate of the Church of the Province of Southern Africa (now the Anglican Church of Southern Africa)."
  • "He is generally credited with coining the term Rainbow Nation as a metaphor for post-apartheid South Africa after 1994 under African National Congress rule."
  • "The expression has since entered mainstream consciousness to describe South Africa's ethnic diversity."
  • 'Tutu is widely regarded as "South Africa's moral conscience"'
  • 'and has been described by former President of South Africa, Nelson Mandela, as "sometimes strident, often tender, never afraid and seldom without humour, Desmond Tutu's voice will always be the voice of the voiceless".'
  • "uses his high profile to campaign for the oppressed"
  • "particularly in Zimbabwe, Sudan and Palestine" (particularly?)
  • "has served as the honorary chairman for the Global AIDS Alliance"
  • "the Albert Schweitzer Prize for Humanitarianism"
  • "the Magubela prize for liberty in 1986"
  • "the Gandhi Peace Prize in 2007" (the body doesn't give the date)
  • The phrase " by Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, President of India" is out of place in the lead. It's not that notable (who cares who gave the award? we don't list the awarders even for the Nobel). I suggest removing it from the article.


  • The prase "... high profile to campaign for the oppressed, though his consistent opposition to actions and policies pursued by Israel [...] and the United States [...] has made him controversial." seems biased by the writers standpoint on those particular issues.

Early years[edit]

  • "says Tutu". Tense problem. Should be "said Tutu".
  • "and later Tutu's mentor" This phrase isn't in its proper chronological location. Please move it to later in the section, at the proper time, to avoid foreshadowing.
  • "Mogale City" is a red link.
  • "Prime Minister Vorster" is lacking the "B.J.".
  • Stray space after "National University of Lesotho".
  • "Alternately charming and challenging them". Who's the "them"?
  • "was appointed Anglican Dean of Johannesburg". Wasn't he actually appointed Dean of St. Mary's Cathedral in Johannesburg? You're a dean of a particular church, not of a city, right?

Personal life[edit]

  • "a teacher who had met while at college" is ungrammatical.

Tutu's role during Apartheid[edit]

  • "Apartheid" should not be capitalized in the section header.
  • Wasn't Tutu the first black Secretary-General of the South African Council of Churches? If so, this should be mentioned.
  • The text doesn't make it crystal clear exactly when he became an archbishop.
  • "although it hit the poor hardest for if disinvestment" Comma needed after "hardest".
  • "Rand" should be wikilinked; non-South-African readers won't know what a Rand is.
  • "thirty thousand" → "30,000"
  • "Tutu's opposition was vigorous and unequivocal" Opposition to what? It sounded at first like it was opposition to reconciliation, which of course is not intended.
  • "Bishop Tutu" → "Tutu"
  • "Desmond Tutu" → "Tutu"
  • "former Archbishop, Philip Welsford Richmond Russell" Omit the comma.
  • "a number of" → "many"

Tutu's role since Apartheid[edit]

  • "Apartheid" should not be capitalized in the section header.
  • "Desmond Tutu" → "Tutu"
  • This section is too long and complicated and should be split up and reorganized. It is not at all clear that that some of the subheaders are appropriate for this section. For example, "Against poverty" surely applies to his views during apartheid as well as after.
  • Perhaps you can have one top-section devoted to personal history after apartheid, and another top-level section talking about his views on various subjects (church reform, HIV/AIDS, etc).

Role in South Africa[edit]

  • "Archbishop Tutu" → "Tutu" (twice)
  • This section is too long and is not clearly organized. The paragraphs seem to be isolated from one another. What's the theme here?

Chairman of The Elders[edit]

  • "Archbishop Tutu" → "Tutu"
  • "Desmond Tutu" → "Tutu"
  • Do not embolden "Desmond Tutu".

Role in the Third World[edit]

  • This section seems too long and suffers from recentism. It could easily be replaced with a briefer summary of his actions and views on Darfur, Tibet, Zimbabwe, Israel, Palestine, West Papua.

United Nations role[edit]

  • The text about his trip to the Gaza Strip really belongs next to the Israel/Palestine section. Some refactoring is needed here.

Zimbabwe[edit]

  • '"Enough is enough?".' Omit the period.
  • The citation to [1] is not formatted properly.
  • after "force if necessary" the citation is poorly formatted.

Israel/Palestine[edit]

  • Rename to "Israel and Palestine"

Political views[edit]

  • I see little reason for this section header. The other sections (e.g., "Role in the Third World") are also political.

Against unilateralism[edit]

Little of this section is about unilateralism. This seems to be a section containing Tutu's criticisms of actions taken by the Bush administration. It should be labeled as such. Also, the section seems overlong and suffers from recentism.

Against HIV/AIDS and TB[edit]

  • "Archbishop Tutu" → "Tutu"
  • "everyday" → "every day"
  • "HIV/Aids" → "HIV/AIDS" (twice)

Church reform[edit]

  • "Desmond Tutu" → "Tutu"
  • "Archbishop Desmond Tutu" → "Tutu"

Honours[edit]

  • "freedom of the city" → "freedom of the city"
  • "Pacem in Terris is Latin for 'Peace on Earth'." Remove.
  • This section seems to combine major honors (the Nobel) with relatively minor ones (freedom of the city of Kingston upon Hull). Let's trim away the minor ones. He must have a boatload of honors.

Media/film appearances[edit]

This should be reworked into text that briefly describes the appearances. The list should be put on a separate list page.

Writings[edit]

Likewise. The lists should go elsewhere.

The first paragraph about the Greater Good Magazine (surely this should just be Greater Good) is weird and looks like an ad for Greater Good. Surely Tutu has published in many journals. I do like the idea of summarizing his major themes.

Further reading[edit]

No need to list Desmond Tutu: A Biography here, since it's listed as a source, in References. Generally speaking, all these sources should either be made citations, or removed, and this section should not be needed.

External links[edit]

There are way too many. See WP:LINKS. I suggest trimming down the external links to sites for Tutu's organizations: The Desmond Tutu Peace Foundation and The Elders.

Accuracy and verifiability[edit]

I verify that the catholics refer to apes as 'primates' just like the british drunkard junkies. I would recheck that one...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.116.68.67 (talk) 04:15, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Coverage[edit]

  • The lead should say Tutu is an Anglican Archbishop emeritus.
  • I'm surprised to see no coverage of Tutu's book No Future without Forgiveness. Isn't that his best-known book?
  • No mention that he graduated from the University of South Africa.
  • No mention that he has a Master of Theology degree.
  • No mention that he taught theology from 1967 to 1972.
  • No mention of the Order for Meritorious Service - Gold.
  • No mention of his campaign against South Africa's passport laws.
  • No mention of his position on civil rights (as opposed to human rights). Wasn't his early campaign more about civil rights?
  • There is too much coverage of Trevor Tutu. This should be condensed down to one or two sentences, like his other children. This is supposed to be a biography of Desmond, not of Trevor. Preferably his children should be discussed only insofar as they affect Desmond publicly.
  • The text doesn't make it clear what the rule of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was, or what role Tutu played within the Commission. This is a big deal, and should be explained here somewhat.
  • The text doesn't mention Tutu's stints at Episcopal Divinity School, Boston and the University of North Florida, Jacksonville.

Neutrality[edit]

Looks good.

Stability[edit]

OK.

Images[edit]

The fair-use rationale for Image:Desmond Tutu Quilt.jpg is unconvincing. Please don't use that image. Likewise for Image:Desmond_Tutu_Portrait.jpg. Sorry, but both fair-use rationales are rationales for discussing artworks, and don't apply here.

There aren't enough images. Please see [2] for some other images you can use, or scare up some others if you can find them.

Plagiarism[edit]

The following are direct or near-direct quotes from the source,[3] but are not in quote marks. This goes too far. Remove, reword to be a paraphrase, or put in quotes. Also, track down the edits that inserted this text, identify the editor who did it, and check all other changes made by the same editor.

  • "Tutu faced a difficult balancing act: voicing black discontent while leading a largely white parish. Alternately charming and challenging them, he appealed to their Afrikaner heritage, recalling that their forebears had endured British concentration camps. Somewhat to the bewilderment of other black leaders, he patiently courted Vorster’s successor, P. W. Botha, explaining that even Moses continued to reason with Pharaoh. But white liberals grew nervous when Tutu called for a boycott of South African products."
  • "That was the turning point: within months, Mandela was freed from prison, and apartheid was beginning to crumble."
  • "Even if disinvestment threw blacks out of work, Tutu argued, at least they would be suffering "with a purpose." And disinvestment did succeed, causing the value of the Rand to plunge and pressuring the government toward reform."

Please check for other instances of plagiarism like this, and fix everything you find. A reviewer shouldn't have to check for plagiarism in each citation.

Failed "good article" nomination[edit]

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of July 2, 2008, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Fail, some reorganization needed, see comments above
2. Factually accurate?: accuracy is mostly good; need to cite sources as discussed above. Some serious plagiarism problems, which must get fixed.
3. Broad in coverage?: pretty good, but some holes; see "Coverage"
4. Neutral point of view?: Pass
5. Article stability? Pass
6. Images?: Fail; see "Images" above

Whew! It's a big one to review! It's good, but not yet a Good Article. I expect more than a week will be needed to address the above issues.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be renominated. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it have it reassessed. Thank you for your work so far.— Eubulides (talk) 08:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the really detailed review. Will start addressing the concerns above soon. --Cazo3788 (talk) 08:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Elders[edit]

No entry in WP for The Elders?? Johnalexwood (talk) 08:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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