Talk:Demographics of Northern Ireland/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Expected year of Catholic majority

Several demographers have predicted that Northern Ireland will soon have a Catholic majority, given that the last census in 2001 showed that over 40 % of the population was Catholic. Catholics tend to have more children than Protestants, and there are usually more Cathollic immigrants than Protestant immigrants. This should probably be included in the article somehow. Also, another important thing to note is that many Anglicans in Northern Ireland self-identiy as anglo-Catholics, i.e. they follow an ecumenical movement pioneered by John Henry Newman that tries to improve its ties with the Holy See. ADM (talk) 23:14, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Pointless without verifiable published sources to back up all the claims you are making. And its not just Catholics who tend to have large families, i know Protestant families of up to 14 siblings! Many demographers also predict that Northern Ireland won't have a Roman Catholic majority in the future as their birth rate is evening out to Protestant levels mainly due to the fact as Catholics have become better off and richer they are having less children. Its simple really, middle-class people tend to have less children than impoverished working-class people end up having - and more Catholics are becoming middle-class, and our working-class is less and less impoverished. Seeing as that may become the case, merging natively born Northern Irish Catholics with foreign immigrant Catholics just to create a majority would end up failing.
Maybe we should also add the fact that more Roman Catholics and Protestants than ever see themselves as Northern Irish as oppossed to Irish or British? Mabuska (talk) 13:48, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Condoms. Thats the difference. Northern Irish self perception is the logical solution to avoiding the breeding competition. Surely larger Catholic families in the past was indicative of economic disparity within the UK though? Seamusalba (talk) 00:20, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

IE, if Catholics had been treated equally, there would be an equal number of children born per family on average? The claim that they are levelling off because of increased wealth suggests that in past decades they were poorer than Protestants in Northern Ireland (according to your logic). (something often explained from Republicans as being the result of deliberate policy by the Unionists!... mmm maybe they have a point?) Seamusalba (talk) 00:24, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Must you always nitpick with any of my comments Seasmusalba?? Its getting pretty pathetic and old now almost as if your stalking me. Do you think your last comment will hit a nerve? Hardly, i openly accept and admit that Unionists are at fault for the core causes of the Troubles due to their unfair treatment of Catholics. If it wasn't for Unionist hardliners forcing out then liberal Prime Minister Terence O'Neill just because he wanted to reform the system to end the widespread discrimination, the Troubles may never have happened.
Before you get involved in a debate on Northern Ireland and its discrimination then you should read this beforehand [1]. And read it in its 'entirety' so you can understand the issue a lot better than you probably do. Unionist policies weren't directed at making Catholics poor - they where directed at ensuring that their own "people" got preferential treatment first and foremost. You must also take into account the fact that Catholic run schools had far lower educational standards than State schools back then as well and thus produced less skilled and learned people - and you hardly get a good job with no skills. Yet don't for one minute think that Protestants where all better off than Catholics - there where a hell of a lot of Protestants that where just as impoverished and poor as Catholics - maybe just as many, and despite preferential treatment towards Protestants not every Protestant benefited. This also can explain why some people have large families:
With regard to family size, Compton's point is that because an unemployed man's benefit is related to the size of his family, a man with a large family may "find it more attractive financially to remain at home unemployed than to take a job"
Mabuska (talk) 12:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


very interesting and thanks for the link. "Nitpicking"? maybe Im interested in the other side of the argument. Im playing devil's advocate as it were. (that and being bored over the holidays). do poverty and a lack of equal access to provisions in society not share a symbiotic cause and effect I take it? I wasnt aware that there was preferential treatment for certain as Ive only ever heard claims from the Republican side, but now youre confirming that there was so Im rather glad I "nitpicked" (or contributed to a talk page on a subject that currently interests me despite my lack of expertise admittedly... hence the initial need to ask questions) anyway, thanks again for the link (which I will read in its entirety) and seasons greetings : D Seamusalba (talk) 13:57, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Ordinary people from outside Northern Ireland tend to have a 'lack of expertise' when it comes to these muddled shores. Anyways, more appropaite places for you to direct your attention to if you want to discuss/debate Northern Ireland politics etc. would be these two places: Slugger O'Toole and Politics.ie. Mabuska (talk) 11:19, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Back to the topic, heres the link to back up the last sentence in my first post in this topic on demographics - NI Life and Times Survey. This is an intersting survey to fit in somewhere in this article or related one - especially when in the 18-24 Age Group of respondants - more said they were Northern Irish (31%) as oppossed to British (28%) or Irish (29%). Overall more people define themselves as Northern Irish (29%) as oppossed to Irish (26%), though British still tops the list (37%). This along with the large amount of respondants listed as 'No Religion' i feel could really signify the changing times here. Mabuska (talk) 13:13, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


Thanks for the statistics link. the breakdown shows that younger people are changing in their perceptions (and that 1% of over 65s dont know who they are!) Ill check out the Slugger O Toole one too (great name lol). What would be fascinating would be to see the relationship between religious views and perceptions of nationality/ethnicity, as I have a suspicion animosity to religious minority status in a religious state has had a great deal to do with the perception of being British amongst Protestants (ie anything but under a Catholic influenced government). This could also explain the animosity to the Gaelic language(s) amongst sections of those that see themselves as British, despite their British ancestors speaking Gaelic when they arrived in Ireland!)

Is there such a thing as a "Republican/anti Monarchism Unionist" IE a Unionist who is against the concept of Monarchy? (Im sure there are Socialists who arent in favour of a united Ireland in other words.The northern Ireland equivelant of Tony Benn) Seamusalba (talk) 18:00, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


Actually Ill post that on the Slugger O Toole website : D Seamusalba (talk) 18:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

The animosity towards Gaelic culture by those who identify with being 'British' started before the foundation of Northern Ireland as a possible starting point would be when Roman Catholic nationalists hijacked the Gaelic League and politicised it for republican ideals. It was a Protestant, Douglas Hyde (first President of the Irish Republic), who co-founded the Gaelic League and helped save and resurrect Gaelic culture, only to watch its members turn it into a political weapon to help define themselves as something completely seperate from what their enemy was. He resigned in 1915 for these reasons, Northern Ireland didn't exist until 1922.
Since the foundation of Northern Ireland: A lot of has to do with Irish republican paramilitaries since then abusing Gaelic culture to define themselves - alienating the majority unionist Protestants further from Gaelic culture. Many southern observers on the Politics.ie site have stated this themselves over the years, slating Sinn Fein and the IRA for hijacking and doing more harm to Gaelic culture in Northern Ireland than good. Had they not hijacked it, Gaelic may very well be more accepted in the Protestant community today as it once was.
Naturally there are a few unionists who aren't pro-monarchist, i know a couple who would admit this behind closed doors lol. However it is potentially confusing terminology for some people. Just like the terms unionist and nationalist are confusing terms for outsiders - nationalists in Northern Ireland are also unionists in terms of unity with the Irish Republic (as oppossed to the UK), and unionists are also nationalists in the sense of British nationalism. Then there are those who'd see themselves as Ulster nationalists. Mabuska (talk) 19:29, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


HAPPY NEW YEAR and lang may yer lum reek! Seamusalba (talk) 23:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Religion

Considering the importance, or perhaps, the use of religion in backing up the nationalistic conflicts that occur in Northern Ireland, I am surprised to find no statistics for the religious make up of Northern Ireland. Gabr-el 03:07, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Mother tongue.

Does there exist at least any statistics of percentages of populations by mother tongue? СЛУЖБА (talk) 20:35, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

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