Talk:Dawn FM

Genres

@Bowling is life: @Sweethavxn: @Ronherry:

I see you guys are going back and forth about what genre the album is, I suggest you guys discuss at this talk page before keep restoring genres in the future. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 22:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@Ronherry: @Bowling is life:

Since we're the ones going back and forth on what genres the album falls under, let's have a discussion about it's primary genres. Many music critics so far have classified the album as either pop/dance-pop (mainly dance-pop), synth-pop, electropop and new wave. I haven't seen any articles that have classified the album as R&B. Should the infobox just have the four main genres I mentioned? Should they have more, or less? What do you all think? --Sweethavxn (talk) 22:39, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@Sweethavxn: @Ronherry: I'm sure we could find another source for R&B. I'm thinking we could remove electropop from the infobox since it is similar to synth-pop and just leave it at dance-pop, synth-pop, new wave, and R&B. Bowling is life (talk) 22:46, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@Bowling is life: @Ronherry: That sounds good. Or better yet, do you think it's better to remove contemporary R&B and put alternative R&B instead? Because that's more electronic-based? --Sweethavxn (talk) 22:56, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@Ronherry: @Bowling is life: I'm trying to find more sources for R&B, but all of them are just talking about his progression from R&B to pop music, they're not calling the album itself R&B. I'm thinking we could also remove R&B from the infobox. --Sweethavxn (talk) 23:17, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@Sweethavxn: @Ronherry: I also found this source: https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/review/2022/01/07/the-weeknd-dances-to-death-in-disco-inspired-dawn-fm.html "The electronic- and-R&B-driven 16-track, 52-minute opus that serves as his fifth studio album..." Do you think this is enough? I feel this and the other source should be enough in order for R&B to be included. I think keeping down to dance-pop, synth-pop, new wave, and R&B would be acceptable. Plus, calling an album by the Weeknd R&B isn't exactly controversial. Two sources should be enough. As for your alternative R&B suggestion, do you have a source that calls it alternative R&B? Bowling is life (talk) 00:23, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Assigning genres to the album yourself and then trying to find a source for it to support it is not the way to decide music genres for an album on Wikipedia. That's not how it should work as per WP:EXPLICITGENRE. The protocol is that: If you come across a critic of a reliable publication calling the album a genre's work explicitly, then that genre shall be added to the infobox. So far, reliable publications have called Dawn FM a "pop", "dance-pop" and "synth-pop" album. There are no explicit statements about alternative R&B or whatever. New wave, electronic and funk have only been mentioned in reviews as major influences, not as the album's genre itself. "The Star" is again not a reliable source. Stick to reviews from publications like New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Variety etc or credible music publications like Rolling Stone, Stereogum, Clash, Pitchfork, The Guardian etc. Ronherry (talk) 04:34, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@Ronherry: Should pop be in the infobox as well? Since there are publications explicitly calling it a pop album. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 05:55, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@TheAmazingPeanuts: Sure, bud. You can add Pop too since it is backed by many reliable publications; I avoided adding pop to the infobox thinking it would be redundant as "Dance-pop • synth-pop" are pop sub-genres and imply the album is pop (the "-pop" suffixes). But if you feel like that doesn't suffice it, please go ahead and add Pop as well. Regards. Ronherry (talk) 05:59, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@TheAmazingPeanuts: @Sweethavxn: @Ronherry: I think we should still include R&B and electropop in the composition section at the very least. I don't know why it was removed from there. Bowling is life (talk) 13:21, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@Bowling is life: R&B and electropop got removed because they not supported by an reliable source (Riff Magazine) or the sources didn't supported these genres explicitly (WP:EXPLICITGENRE). TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 13:39, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

But how? why should R&B and electropop be added to infobox when none of the reliable publications have explicity called it so? WP:EXPLICITGENRE clearly instructs editors to disregard ambiguous and non-definitive statements of music genre. Your source for those 2 genres—Riff Magazine—fails both the reliability and explicitness criteria. Ronherry (talk) 14:11, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't think "pop" should be included in the infobox. I agree with Ronherry that adding just "pop" in addition to "dance-pop" and "synth-pop" is redundant. I think the "-pop" suffixes suffice it, as many reliable publications are calling it a more "dance" album. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sweethavxn (talk • contribs)

@Sweethavxn: I have remove "pop" from the infobox since you and Ronherry have considered as redundant. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 16:03, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@Bowling is life: @Ronherry: @Sweethavxn: https://www.treblezine.com/the-weeknd-dawn-fm-review/ calls Dawn FM a disco/R&B album, but TheAmazingPeanuts refuses to accept that for some strange reason 51.198.25.73 (talk) 08:23, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

The source says: Dawn FM is a loose concept record, like a disco/R&B version of Songs for the Deaf by Queens of the Stone Age. The source says it's like a disco/R&B album, not explicitly calling it. You clearly didn't read the guidelines (WP:EXPLICITGENRE) and the source is questionable at best (WP:ALBUM/SOURCE). TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 11:21, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

And I don't know why you pinged Bowling is life, Ronherry, and Sweethavxn in this discussion, they also agreed that dance-pop and synth-pop should stay in the infobox. It would be pointless. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 11:45, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

That's the thing TheAmazingPeanuts you don't see any other way apart from your way, I read it as the album could be compared to Songs for the Deaf but it's the disco/R&B version of it, so how the hell are you saying it's questionable? I think it would be fair if @ToBeFree: were to add their opinion into here as I think they see it more than just a narrow tunnel vision like you do. 51.198.25.73 (talk) 12:54, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Pinging @Binksternet: in this discussion. Do the source called it disco/R&B? TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 14:15, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

51.198 is MariaJaydHicky. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 16:00, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

@Tbhotch: I knew it, I have talk to NinjaRobotPirate about this earlier. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 16:03, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes, the IP here is MJH evading her block. She was doing the same shit[1] with Special:Contributions/62.252.205.73, and got that blocked. Binksternet (talk) 19:57, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the diff. Re-blocked, page protected. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:35, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Small error in the Composition section

I can't make this change since the page is semi-protected, so hopefully someone else can review and make it for me. Apologies if this is not correct use of the Talk page.

Currently, the page lists drum and bass as being incorporated in the album, and cites a Nylon article. The Nylon article says this: "After Hours emphasized suspenseful synthesizer drops, a blend of U.K. dance genres from dubstep-lite to moody drum and bass, and care-free ‘80s pop. Dawn FM pushes further into the latter."

To be clear, Nylon states that drum and bass was found in After Hours, the previous album, while Dawn FM is focused on "the latter," i.e. "care-free '80s pop," and not the UK dance genres such as drum and bass. Listening to Dawn FM, one might have difficulty finding drum and bass influence! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.180.132.106 (talk) 23:14, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Promotional singles?

Should we really count "Starry Eyes", "How Do I Make You Love Me?", and "Best Friends" as promotional singles? The only information looks like remixes were released, and I don't think that should be cinsidered as a promotional single AskeeaeWiki (talk) 08:22, 31 January 2024 (UTC)