Talk:Coolie/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Origin of word

The origin of coolie is more hazy, as it would come from Turkish (slave) and was passed on to India through the moghuls. Besides, the inhabitants of Kula, in India, most of them hired labour, were also called kulis/coolies... Then it spread to China.

I heard that "coolie" comes from the Chinese word 苦力. Can anyone verify this? -Spencer195 05:01, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Yes it came from Chinese, and interestingly this English term is translated back to Chinese(Cantonese)... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.188.41 (talk • contribs)
The word is ultimately of South Asian origin (so http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=coolie claims). Apparently it was a Hindi word adopted by the Portuguese (late 16th century), who spread it to China (presumably the coastal areas), where it apparently entered into the vocabulary of the local Chinese, who presumably took the term to North America. At the same time the term also entered into the English language, whether via another European language or via the Chinese laborers isn't clear to me.
We know this is a foreign word in Chinese, because in some Chinese languages the pronunciation of 苦力 does not match the expected and usual pronunciation for those Chinese characters. i.e. It's a borrowed word. 4.250.51.41 02:44, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Uncited quotation

The article contains the following quotation: "In tropical countries where white labor is impossible, there arose with the abolition of slavery a need for cheap labor capable of doing the heavy tasks of plantations, factories, and shipping." If this is indeed a quotation, the identity of the writer and other biographical information should be imported.

The term indeed does not derive from Chinese. There is an entry in the Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Chinese Language which gives one reference to an old poem that says something like, "Why would one make refined his thought processes and fatigue his strength?" Then it says that in English it refers to "heavy and stupid work".

What all of this discussion misses, even though the quotation above hints at it, is that a new form of abuse had been invented -- something that has reappeared today. Labor was being imported from places in economic travail to places where cheap labor was needed. The Chinese laborers in the US used in the building of the transcontinental railroad would be an example. Once they were hired into gang labor they had little choice. They either labored and got fed or they found themselves at loose ends in a land where they had no friends, no money, and no language competency that would have allowed them to make their way. They were very much in the position of laborers who are smuggled in and then forced to work for the "cost" of their board and room. (They always have genius accountants in those enterprises.) P0M 23:50, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Deleted one link

Someone had added: "Kaphir, the complementary Jamaican term" There are a couple of problems with this addition. (1) It is not backed up with any citation. (2) "Kaphir" goes only to a disambiguation page, and the alleged Jamaican use of the term "Kaphir" is not give there, so the link would be useless to the general reader. (3) Whoever wrote it probably meant "complimentary" and not "complementary." P0M 05:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Is there any way to stop the senseless vandalism - replacing the word "coolie" with "Bart", etc? While it is fair enough to object to the use of the term today - it still needs to be openly discussed so people can understand what happened. The word originally meant just "labourer" and was not meant to be pejorative. It may be of interest to may to see how the word came to be used and misused. Childish vandalism will not help. Oh, and it would be nice if people who make changes were required to add their names. John Hill 11:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Indentured labour in New Zealand

I have never heard of it. Anyone got a reference?

Took it out. Herne nz 01:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Putting it back, marked as needing a citation. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 11:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

The permanent settlement of formerly indentured Indians created problems particularly in Africa

What are we getting at here? Who were they causing problems for? Are we implying they were a generally undesirable group because of their race? Herne nz

Derogatory.

"Coolie" is a derogatory term... is there any way we can paraphrase most of the instances of the word in the article? "These workers..." etc.

"Coolie" is not regarded as derogatory when used in India to refer to the luggage porters found at all Indian railway stations. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.243.153.70 (talk) 19:44, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

Watering down

Why do people keep watering this article down? Why is this article different from nigger or Faggot (epithet)? Guettarda 14:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Because while those words are now used (except by black and gay people) exclusively as insults, even today not everyone uses coolie with that intent. For instance, a history professor or documentary might till use the term in discussing 19th century labor. Some reference book still list it as a type of labor used in the 19th century. Letting the article convey this nuance is a good thing. Really the article is about two things: (1) The word, now pretty much derogatory although once not so much and (2) what "coolitude" was, who was used this way, etc. The articles on "nigger" and "faggot" are about the word, not the people or their experiences. Is this helpful at all? House of Scandal 22:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
No, you miss the point. "Nigger" was once an acceptable term for black people, by this token that article should be primarily about black people, with a minor parenthetical mention that the term is "now usually considered pejorative". Do you understand why your changes are extremely offensive? Guettarda 01:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Have this arguement with someone else. House of Scandal 01:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

You're making offensive changes to the article. I don't see how trying to explain to you why take this as an attack or something. No value in being so defensive. Guettarda 04:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Likewise defensive is calling my changes "extremely offensive". Obviously, this article is about more than the word. Most of the article is about the unfortunate people to whom the word was applied. I contrast, the article "nigger" is about the word. Is the new intro satisfactory? House of Scandal 10:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I've reorganized much of the info, added new quotes and new images, and generally tried to make the article easier to comprehend. As Wikipedia guidelines advise, it's better to show than to tell. House of Scandal 12:29, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Oy...

I would like to be able to call to your attention that modifications relating to coolitude on the basis of coolieism can be erroneous in two ways : a) Coolieism refers stricto sensu to a status of the coolie as applied in the US, and it is elsewhere referred to as indenturedship or coolie labour. Therefore, it doesn't fully charter the complexity implied in the neologism coolitude in the US and abroad, as coolitude is a poetics evolved on the status of the coolie, based on a contract, which is then expanded, as the corrector indicates, to any migrant, be he/she Indian, Chinese, African, Malagasy etc, to relate to postmodern,postcolonial approach. Therefore prefering coolieism would disregard the novelty in this concept which was invented in 1992 and has been fruitful in many countries and a "purist" and "regresive stance" on' help. - In view of the above definition which has been adopted by reasearchers and historians, and who do not feel this neologism is marred so easily, the corrector indicates, by coolitude taken as "coolness". This was explained recently on the wek in France, following controversy stirred by Ségolène Royal who said "bravitude" instead of "bravery". It was recalled that coolitude is also in keeping with a vision of History which relates to ahimsa or a non-violent attitude (which some call "coolness" or coolitude) as it propounds for a philosophy of diversity and dialogue based on recognition between former slaves, masters and coolies, to develop a mosaic attitude to ohterness. Furthermore, the word wasn't coined with suffix tude to recall servitude, as indicated, but to bring to mind négritude, only to express solidarity with the slaves, and to express distance with its essentialist connotations. herefore, the two meanings are not contradicted in the definition of coolitude given by semiologist Torabully. I would there ask you to kindly consider this new piece of information, so that a new and apt formulation can be now decided conjointly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.224.151.243 (talk • contribs) 16:56, 4 February 2007‎ (UTC)

Coolie Trade

I just copied over a whole bunch of stuff from coolie trade, which was essentially duplicating what was here. There are other elements, mostly based on Khal Torabully's work, which is insufficiently referenced and probably his own original research. I've tried to integrate it gracefully, and to give it the benefit of the doubt for now, but more work needs to be done. My apologies for the fact that in the short term this article's quality has declined! --Jbmurray 14:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Fake racism

It's not a racial slur and the reference doesn't cut it. More fabricated racism on Wikipedia. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 19:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:CoolieDVD.jpg

Image:CoolieDVD.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 02:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

The problem has been taken care of. --Ghostexorcist 03:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Culo

The trivia note "Its used as short for a slang Spanish and Italian term, culo, spelled coolie referring to the buttocks. " is wrong, at least referred to Italian. The Italian culo (buttocks) has nothing to do with coolies and, on the countrary comes from the Italian dialect where cul means end or bottom (the bottle bottom would be called cul de la buteja) just like the French cul (cul de sac). I think someone should consider amending this in the article. ARCIDUB 79.10.163.6 (talk) 10:57, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Major motion picture "Iron Road"

A recent major motion picture was shot in British Columbia called "Iron Road" depicting the Chinese coolies working on the Canadian railway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.67.24.102 (talk) 05:19, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

In Media

Do these descriptions strike anyone else as extremely long? I think that they should each be cut down to a sentence describing only why they relate to the term "coolie", and let the wikilinks to the rest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stuston (talk • contribs) 15:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Modern Use

In my opinion the section "Modern Use" is in terrible shape, and looks more like an Urban Dictionary entry than the quality expected from Wikipedia. Examples: ""Are you still in school, bro?", one could reply "Heck yea, still in school fulltime and being a coolie"", "In America, among the car/truck enthusiast subculture, it is a term used to identify the extra installation of vehicle marker lights". I mean, seriously? Can we make this better? It seems more like a cleverly disguised trivia section than anything, the whole section is missing sources and references. -Popoi (talk) 22:28, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to remove the bullet points that are obviously false or unrelated. -Popoi (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

"Chinos" section

A large amount of material was added in these edits which added a "precursor" which may be orthogonal to this article's subject. This content was then heavy-handedly massaged by another anon editor to remove references to slavery, even doing so far as to change the Google Books links in the references. The latter was plainly wrong, but I've reverted the lot for now; it may be better off in a different article. The content originally added was referenced, and so is worth checking. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 12:14, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


My edits are valid. Coolies were not in any way slaves. Coolies were indentured laborers. Being a person who has in depth knowledge of coolies because I am from the islands it is a fact that collies were given land and houses for their labor plus wages. Coolie labor took place after slavery was abolished and that is a fact. To class coolies is very inaccurate. Also the etymology for coolie means wages.

I would like my edits to appear.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/136194/coolie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 00:57, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2014


My edits are very valid. Being a person who has in depth knowledge of what took place in those island because I am from there I know that coolie should not be classed as slavery. Coolies should be classed as Indentured Labourers. Coolieism took place after Slavery was abolished and that is a fact. Also the word coolie means wages or hireling.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/136194/coolie http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/indian-indentured-labour.htm http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/11/25/247166284/a-history-of-indentured-labor-gives-coolie-its-stinghttp:



Richey90211 (talk) 01:03, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. "Add X before/after Y" or "Delete X" is also acceptable. —KuyaBriBriTalk 02:11, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

British Origin

First of all the Category must be changed from Slavery to Indentured Laborer. Second the etymology for coolie is hired laborer or wages. And kuli in turkish means hireling. Thank you and I will get back to you with more changes. I am from these islands and the original article so falsely misrepresents coolies. Many people of Indian and Chinese background took exception to this article because they knew that a lot of the subject matter in the original article was false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 23:00, 4 May 2014 (UTC) the origin of it's British use in the British Empire was directed at any ASIAN whether they were anywhere from the Indian Subcontinent or China. In documents from this period pertaining to the West Indies the coolies were either as mention, Indians, Chinese or Indonesians and people from that area. So Indians, Chinese and people from Java were all coolies. In the 20th century it became a distinct British term for people of Indian descent in English Caribbean territory who still worked in agriculture, as many Chinese migrated to the town and opened businesses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.119.228.212 (talk) 19:09, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2014


Coolies were given wages, land, and houses for their labor. Generally speaking people today are not even given this. I know this for a fact because I am from these island and the people there were indeed paid. This resulted in a lot of jealousy and anger from African slaves towards coolies and perhaps rightfully so. Indian coolies were paid about $45 dollars a day plus food and clothing.


http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/136194/coolie http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/indian-indentured-labour.htm http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/11/25/247166284/a-history-of-indentured-labor-gives-coolie-its-stinghttp: http://www.sahistory.org.za/politics-and-society/anti-indian-legislation-1800s-1959


Richey90211 (talk) 01:17, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —KuyaBriBriTalk 02:12, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


thank you. First of all the Category must be changed from Slavery to Indentured Laborer. Second the etymology for coolie is hired laborer or wages. And kuli in turkish means hireling. Thank you and I will get back to you with more changes. I am from these islands and the original article so falsely misrepresents coolies. Many people of Indian and Chinese background took exception to this article because they knew that a lot of the subject matter in the original article was false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 03:12, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


thank you. First of all the Category must be changed from Slavery to Indentured Laborer. Second the etymology for coolie is hired laborer or wages. And kuli in turkish means hireling. Thank you and I will get back to you with more changes. I am from these islands and the original article so falsely misrepresents coolies. Many people of Indian and Chinese background took exception to this article because they knew that a lot of the subject matter in the original article was false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 06:02, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Your request to change the category simply cannot be done as there is no Wikipedia category called "Indentured labor" or anything similar. If you don't believe me, type "Category:Indent" in the Wikipedia search box and see what suggestions come up. Perhaps Category:Debt bondage would work, as the articles Indentured servant and Indian indenture system are in that category. But without a consensus I would only be amenable to adding this article to that category, not removing this article from Category:Slavery.
As for your second request (the etymology for coolie is hired laborer or wages) I do not see how that is supported by the sources you provided. The sources you provided corroborate the wording currently on the article. "I am from these islands and know it to be true" is unacceptable as that constitutes original research. —KuyaBriBriTalk 03:01, 6 May 2014 (UTC)


80% of the immigrants who came to the Chesapeake Bay colonies were white, European indentured laborers. Indentured laborers were: White Europeans, Chinese, Indians, and other Asian ethnic groups and they were not slaves. "Coolie" needs to be listed under a category called Indentured Laborer or it should not be in a category at all. Coolie should simply not be listed under the category of Slavery because that is very false and is misleading to the public. How do I remove "coolie" from the category Slavery or get a new category created entitled Indentured Laborer? https://sites.google.com/site/rydenonushistory/home/directory-study-guides/southern-english-colonies

Also the etymology of coolie is "hired laborer" or an "unskilled Asian Laborer" There are several other etymology used in the present article that is not relevant and they must be removed. Can you please remove this. Thank you for your help. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=coolie http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coolie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 02:24, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

I suggest you bring your concerns to WikiProject Discrimination or WikiProject Human rights. There ought to be editors there who have better knowledge of this subject matter than I do and who can better explain the policy than I can. —KuyaBriBriTalk 18:03, 7 May 2014 (UTC)


To be honest the article on coolie was very offensive, discriminatory and false. How do I bring this to their attention? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 04:13, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

I have tried WikiProject Discrimination or WikiProject Human rights and no one has reponded...How do I bring the article "coolie" to the attention of an editor who can edit the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps you can try dropping a note on the talk page of one of the participants at one of those WikiProjects. Every WikiProject has a list of participants somewhere; just make sure that if you do this, you do the following:
  • Make sure the user is still active on Wikipedia by checking his/her contributions. You can check this by going to a user's user page or user talk page, then clicking the "User contributions" link under "Tools" on the left sidebar. If the user has made edits in the last couple of days it's probably safe to say that he/she is still active. Just remember that even though a user may be active, nobody is compelled to respond quickly so don't get offended if you don't get a quick response.
  • As a courtesy please open your message to that user with something like "I got your username from WikiProject X" or "I noticed you are a participant at WikiProject X". Some people are put off by talk page messages that seem to come out of nowhere. —KuyaBriBriTalk 00:13, 17 May 2014 (UTC)


Hi, this has still not been addressed....

Coolie / Indentured Servitude should not be classed as slavery and that is a fact. This must be edited. I would like to be contacted by an editor who can remove "Coolie" and "Indentured Servitude" from the Slavery Category.

Coolies were paid and given land in exchange for work. How could this possibly be classed as slavery? Most WHITE Europeans that came to the United States when this country first started were indentured servants. 80-90% of all white Europeans that came to the Chesapeake Region of the United States were Indentured Servants. 80%-90%... that's a large number right... Over 60% of all white colonial immigrants were indentured servants... are you saying that all these white people were slaves? Check out the source from encyclopedia... http://www.answers.com/topic/indentured-servant Richey90211 (talk) 04:05, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

As has been explained to you on your talk page, being paid does not preclude a system from being slavery. The differences between the coolie trade and earlier chattel slavery systems are explained in the article, and both the similarities and differences are supported by sources. Wikipedia is a community project built on consensus and reliable sources, and we are not going to make the changes you request (based on answers.com) simply because you unilaterally demand them. I will follow up on your talk page with a broader explanation of dispute resolution if you still have concerns. On a related note, I did remove the slavery category from the article for a technical reason - we already have the article in the category "coolie trade", which is within the "slavery" tree and there is no need to have both. VQuakr (talk) 04:32, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
@VQuakr: I think slavery template should be removed. Article is not really the part of slavery' series. Coolie has multiple meanings. OccultZone (Talk) 04:55, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
The template includes closely related topics such as indentured servant. By "multiple meanings", do you mean the historical usage and the contemporary usage as a racial slur? VQuakr (talk) 05:03, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Coolie is a independent profession. That's how there are multiple meanings. OccultZone (Talk) 05:13, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, not trying to be dense but I am not getting it. To what present-tense profession are you referring? VQuakr (talk) 05:19, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
In a number of countries, a person carries baggage outside the airport, railway station. They would carry it until you will reach to the taxi. "In India — in the subcontinent — a 'coolie' is someone who carries baggage."[1] Noted on the article. OccultZone (Talk) 05:28, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for the clarification. That should be primarily covered in our article on porters, then. Per WP:DICTIONARY we have one article per subject, not one article per word. But in any case, I do not see how your observation results in the conclusion that we should remove the template. VQuakr (talk) 07:10, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
I agreed with you above. I had not questioned the importance of the template then. I would've commented the template, but I thought of discussing for a few minutes. Nothing wrong, it is all good. OccultZone (Talk) 07:21, 30 May 2014 (UTC)



My sources are from Encyclopedia sir; that is as reliable as it gets. Read my source the link and bibliography is below; you will see that it is from Encyclopedia. You are redefining slavery and re-writing history. You are saying that the GREATER MAJORITY of White Europeans that came to this country and the Western Hemisphere were slaves. And you still have not addressed this. Guess What most Asians(Coolies) and Whites came to this country as indentured servants and that is a fact. And you are classing indentured servants as slaves and that is historically false. Indentured Servitude should should be classed by itself.

You also say that "being paid does not preclude slavery".... Tell me if being paid does not preclude slavery then I guess we must all be in slavery now. And btw... you still have not removed "coolie" from the category slavery.


Here is my source.

http://www.answers.com/topic/indentured-servant

Bibliography Galenson, David W. White Servitude in Colonial America: An Economic Analysis. New York: Cambridge University Press, 1981.

Morgan, Edmund S. American Slavery, American Freedom: The Ordeal of Colonial Virginia. New York: Norton, 1975. Salinger, Sharon. "To Serve Well and Faithfully": Labor and Indentured Servants in Pennsylvania, 1682–1800. New York: Cambridge University Press, 1987.

An encyclopedia is not a great source; certainly not "as reliable as it gets." Answers.com is not reliable enough to use in any context. The rest of your statements above have already been addressed. Time to move on. VQuakr (talk) 19:04, 1 June 2014 (UTC)


an encyclopedia is not a great source... then what is then? I will not move on from this and a matter of fact I will get more people to edit this article and to protest against it because it is racist. You're calling encyclopedia not a great source... is that a joke? Wikipedia is not a great source; its not even allowed to be used as a source in Universities and its becasue of situations like this where information is completely false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 19:35, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Did you even read the link I included in my last reply? I am using our policies as my reasoning; this is not just my personal opinion. Wikipedia is never used as a source for Wikipedia content, because that would be circular. Threats to canvass off-Wiki will almost certainly get you blocked. This article is not racist simply because you say it is. VQuakr (talk) 19:51, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


I read your link... you said that encyclopedia is not reliable. I am not threatening anyone I simple know that the information on this article is false and yes racist because coolies are being classed as slaves when the credible sources that I have provided states that they were not. Also this article is not racist simple because you say it isn't. This article even says that coolies are not slaves yet you continue to class coolies with slavery. Please see what Wikipedia says below in quotes

"The coolie trade was often compared to the earlier slave trade and they accomplished very similar things.[10][11][12] However, there were significant differences between the Coolie trade and the African slave trade. Firstly, despite the many recorded cases of deceiving and kidnapping coolies, many coolies were voluntary labourers, although it is difficult to know what percentage of the total was represented by voluntary coolies. Owing to famines, wars, and shortages of land, many Asians also chose to go overseas to seek a better life".


And no Wikipedia is not allowed in Universities becasue wikiepdia uses blogs as sources (which is seen as unreliable) For the sake of having the truth told I will get many people to look at this article and edit it because the truth must be told and this article does not contain the truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 04:22, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


Please read the changes that should be made...

First of all the Category must be changed from Slavery to Indentured Worker. If a category was not created for Indentured Worker then in should be. Coolie should not be lumped in the category of slavery because it is false. Second the etymology for coolie is hired laborer or wages. And kuli in Turkish means hireling. Many people of Indian and Chinese background took exception to this article because they knew that a lot of the subject matter in this article is false and misleading. Indians have land today because of the work that they did; slavery and coolie cannot be compared. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coolie http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=coolie http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coolie

Coolies were given wages, land, and houses for their labor. Generally speaking people today are not even given this. This resulted in a lot of jealousy and anger from African slaves towards coolies and perhaps rightfully so. Indian coolies were paid about $45 dollars a day plus food and clothing. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/136194/coolie http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/indian-indentured-labour.htm http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/11/25/247166284/a-history-of-indentured-labor-gives-coolie-its-stinghttp: http://www.sahistory.org.za/politics-and-society/anti-indian-legislation-1800s-1959

80% of the immigrants who came to the Chesapeake Bay colonies were white, European indentured laborers. Indentured laborers were: White Europeans, Chinese, Indians, and other Asian ethnic groups and these people were not slaves. "Coolie" needs to be listed under a category called Indentured Worker or it should not be in a category at all. Coolie should simply not be listed under the category of Slavery because that is very false and is misleading to the public. How do I remove "coolie" from the category Slavery or get a new category created entitled Indentured Laborer? https://sites.google.com/site/rydenonushistory/home/directory-study-guides/southern-english-colonies Also the etymology of coolie is "hired laborer" or an "unskilled Asian Laborer" There are several other etymology used in the present article that is not relevant and they must be removed. Can you please remove this. Thank you for your help. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=coolie http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coolie To me it is obvious that this article was written to degrade peoples whose ancestry goes back to Asia. Coolies and Europeans were both indentured laborers. They were majority unskilled workers and a minority of skilled workers that were paid.

Coolies were paid and given land in exchange for work. How could this possibly be classed as slavery? Most WHITE Europeans that came to the United States when this country first started were indentured servants. 80-90% of all white Europeans that came to the Chesapeake Region of the United States were Indentured Servants. 80%-90%... that's a large number right... Over 60% of all white colonial immigrants were indentured servants... are you saying that all these white people were slaves? Check out the source from encyclopedia... http://www.answers.com/topic/indentured-servant Coolie / Indentured Servitude should not be classed as slavery and that is a fact. This must be edited. I would like to be contacted by an editor who can remove "Coolie" and "Indentured Servitude" from the Slavery Category Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 04:22, 13 June 2014‎ (UTC)

Not all coolies were slaves, and you've been told about that. You are repeating same source. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 04:48, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Opening paragraph doesn't mention labour

The opening paragraph just says that this was a word for "person from Asia..." etc, but does't mention that it referred specifically to *labourers* from Asia, until you get further into the article. Could someone with editing rights add that in, thanks. Otherwise it looks like this was a general term for any Asian. 121.74.97.182 (talk) 07:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@121.74.97.182: Person from Asia is correct, cannot be said that it was used only for those who are laborers. Coolie is not just limited with that, it also includes the self employed one, who loads baggage. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:46, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Changing the Category from Slavery to Indentured Laborer.

Coolies were indentured laborers not slaves. Coolies-ism resulted after slavery was abolished and coolies were paid and given land. Indentured laborers are being classed as slaves when most whites who came to the Western Hemisphere came as indentured laborers and Coolies were indentured laborers with them also. I am requesting that Coolie be removed from the Slavery Category and a new category of Indentured Laborer be assigned to it.

http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/indentured-servants-in-the-us/ http://www.academia.edu/2316489/INDENTURE_AND_SLAVERY_CAN_NOT_BE_COMPARED._THEY_ARE_FUNDAMENTALLY_DIFFERENT._DISCUSS

Have you even read the source? You still haven't answered the last question, that I had asked on here and also on your talk page. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 13:21, 29 June 2014 (UTC)


Thanks for responding... I've just been so busy but I will get back to you on this issue probably later this week. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richey90211 (talk • contribs) 17:47, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Source quality?

Most current dictionaries do not record any offensive meaning ("an unskilled laborer or porter usually in or from the Far East hired for low or subsistence wages" Merriam-Webster) or make a distinction between an offensive meaning in referring to "a person from the Indian subcontinent or of Indian descent" and an at least originally inoffensive, old-fashioned meaning, for example "dated an unskilled native labourer in India, China, and some other Asian countries" (Compact Oxford English Dictionary). However, some dictionaries indicate that the word may be considered offensive in all contexts today. For example, Longman's 1995 edition had "old-fashioned an unskilled worker who is paid very low wages, especially in parts of Asia", but the current version adds "taboo old-fashioned a very offensive word ... Do not use this word".

I question the academic validity of a dictionary that says 'do not use this word,' especially in an era where we have high courts ruling that 'no reasonable person could take offence to a mere word or phrase' to stop police using obscenity and / or profanity laws to persecute and harass minority groups (specifically in Australia). BaSH PR0MPT (talk) 05:56, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Like many words, "coolie" could be used both pejoratively and non-pejoratively, as it was during my childhood in Trinidad. I think it is silly to proscribe the use of such words just because they CAN or COULD be used in a pejorative manner. If we start doing this there is no telling where it could end, or how many good and useful words we would lose.
To give one example, I was amazed to find when visiting Ontario, Canada during the 1950's kids would often use the term "farmer" as an insult. I can remember other children yelling at me: "What's the matter with you, you damn fool - are you a farmer or what?"
Another example is the use of the words "negro," "coloured" and "black". As a child I was taught never to call someone "black" - but "negro" or "coloured" were perfectly acceptable. Later, during the late 1960s to 1970s, the reverse held true. John Hill (talk) 06:44, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
We are not proscribing anything; we are quoting a source telling a reader not to use "coolie" as a synonym for "laborer." VQuakr (talk) 07:07, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
Fair enough! We certainly don't want to be hurting people's feelings. But I should mention it is commonly used in India for labourer with no pejorative overtones.John Hill (talk) 08:07, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
Citation needed. VQuakr (talk) 17:26, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Historical Context

Under the subheading 'History of the Coolie Trade', further explanation on why coolies were primarily Chinese and Indian would be beneficial. Moreover, one sentence reads "The coolie trade was often compared to the earlier slave trade and they accomplished very similar things." What are these "similar things" in reference to, exactly? Paul734 (talk) 15:04, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

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coolie as a slur

if it is a slur as it says in the article, should the images really be calling the people in them a "coolie"? (e.g., a coolie in a farm, with an image of an asian fellow) Vithias (talk) 03:32, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Coolies in North America

Although the words 'North America' are mentioned at the beginning of the article, nothing is said of the tens of thousands of coolies that built the 3 American transcontinental railroads -- although their descendants are still populating the China towns of the 3 Western railway terminals San Francisco, Seattle, and Vancouver to this day.--dunnhaupt (talk) 20:30, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Use of the term "Coolie" in Image Descriptions

Hello,

I am just a undergrad currently doing research on Manchuria for a professor, and I came across the term "coolie", which I was unfamiliar with, in an article I was going through. I searched up the term, and it led me to this wikipedia article. I am here in the talk to page to inquire as to a particularly puzzling aspect of this article, which according to the single archived talk page has been brought up before, though clearly with no resolution. If the term is a racial slur, than should it necessarily be used in the descriptions of the images accompanying this article, or is there perhaps a more respectful way of communicating the subject of the images and their value to the article? I'm just leaving this question open to those who regularly work on this article, as I myself not only have little experience with Wikipedia beyond the rare copyedit, but little confidence I could, as that one guideline goes, "be bold" and try and address this myself with the proper sensitivity regarding a subject I am new to...

Goddale120 (talk) 19:15, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Sentence may have typographical error or statement is simply incorrect.

In 1847 two ships from Cuba transported workers to Havana to work in the sugar cane fields from the port of Xiamen, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joechretien (talk • contribs) 01:18, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

"Coolie" in Chris LeDoux song, "Daydream Cowboy" (cited in article: Coolie) is a different word (coulee), meaning ravine or gully. It is irrelevant to the article on coolie laborers.

[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:4100:e720:4812:87e9:262f:a36b (talk) 19:37, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulee

Relationships Between Europeans?

Should information be added regarding relationships that occurred between "coolies" and Europeans? This article only discusses relationships among "coolies" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emmeconn (talk • contribs) 02:46, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Impossible timeline

"The word coolie was first popularized in the 16th century by European traders across Asia," and "The word originated in South Asia in the 17th century" cannot both be true. -- 194.39.218.10 (talk) 11:55, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi, i just wanted to add that this sentence about the name coolie, " "Since uvular q is not an indigenous sound in Indian languages this explanation can be discarded" is wrong to say for it for just proves what he say it disprove, for coolie has no uvular q aswell so that did not come from a form wich has it in so gujurati kuli is the only form it could come from. People should be able to read all versions of where it can come from and and here be posted opinions against something, even if att alll. But stick to language you know and keep statements here for that was not true att all. The guy who wrote it he should take it down please.


The word coolie comes for the designation for servant groups given as general servant first and then formed into the groups name, for iraqi gypys is qawliya, for Iranian gypsy is called gowli yet they are rhomani people in language. And in personal names surviving today like hassan quli ali quli abbas quli. Yet here i can write it and there should only be examples. Withouth removing any else example even if they are wrong, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.254.166.111 (talk) 03:04, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

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