Talk:Clark Gable/Archive 1

Topics 2004–2009

Judy Lewis

The article Judy Lewis says that Clark Gable and Loretta Young had a child. I asked my grandmother and she said that it was never proven. Is she correct? If so, it needs to be removed from Judy Lewis. I'm going to post it on her article, too. Mike H 00:53, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

My understanding is that Judy Lewis has stated this on a number of occasions,and for many years it was a rumour, but I'm sure that Loretta Young towards the end of her life, supported her story. It needs to be checked somehow before removing it. Rossrs 13:16, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I don't know if anyone has verified this yet, but Loretta said she indeed became pregnant by Clark Gable and give birth to Judy in the book "Forever Young."Chandler75 04:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

This article has Ms Young saying it would be like admitting a "venial" sin; her own article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Young) refers to a "mortal sin". Did she say both, or just one of these?--184.163.223.64 (talk) 04:00, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Theologically speaking, sex with a man to whom she wasn't married would have certainly been a 'mortal sin', and Young, whatever her missteps, was well-versed in Catholicism and is unlikely to have miscategorised it as 'venial'. Can anyone lay their hands on a source? 131.111.184.92 (talk) 02:34, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there's no doubt about Judy Lewis being Gable's and Loretta Young's kid. She looked exactly like Young but with Gable's ears, and Young did confess to her daughter. It's tragic that Young was so screwed up that Gable couldn't spend more time with his daughter. Upsmiler (talk) 16:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Trivia

Some of the trivia sound like romantic urban legends and really need to be substantiated. Someone with the know-how might want to take a look at them. Particularly the ones about the Greta Garbo feud, the Adolf Hitler bounty and the tombstone quote seem fishy. 195.184.109.162 23:25, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Drunk driving

I have removed:

Gable was once involved in a traffic accident while intoxicated. A pedestrian was killed. Supposedly, Mayer used his influence to get the incident hushed up. [source: CJAD Radio, May 14/ 06]

This it too serious an allegation — homicide — to rely on something someone once heard on the radio. The recent book Clark Gable: A Biography, by Warren G. Morris, discusses Gable's drunk driving accident on p. 279:

In March [1945], Gable's heavy drinking finally caught up with him. While driving home from a party celebrating the America victory on Iwo Jima, he lost control of the car as he passed through Bristol Circle, a dense tree-filled traffic island on Sunset Boulevard in residential Brentwood in West Los Angeles. . . .

Howard Strickling [MGM's publicity manager] later claimed that Gable crashed into a tree on the front lawn of the home of Harry Friedman, a talent agent for MCA. According to Strickling, Friedman knew enough about the industry's penchant for secrecy to phone MGM instead of the cops.

"It wouldn't have been good if a photographer arrived and snapped Clark Gable lying on the lawn covered with blood and his car all cracked up," Strickling said. After a studio doctor arrived to patch up Gable, he was taken to Cedars of Lebanon Hospital, and the wrecked car was quickly towed away.

Morris interviewed Strickling on this circa 1972, long after Gable was dead. Strickling is quoted candidly on Gable, good and bad, elsewhere throughout the book. — Walloon 01:43, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

This incident needs more exploration. I remember reading (about 20 or 30 years ago) that Gable had killed someone in a traffic accident and that the studio payed someone else a considerable sum of money to take the rap for Gable. The person went to prison for some time in lieu of Gable but then lived comfortably for the rest of his life off the money the studio paid him to take the rap. Anybody got any info on this? 63.207.238.210 (talk) 06:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

The picture?

The picture looks misrable. In all fairness, he was quite good looking. I think this picture isn't a good representation. How about changing it to something else - like this one?

http://members.lycos.nl/petrabr/tara/reth.jpg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.181.222.89 (talk) 07:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

A picture like his imdb headshot would be a good idea. (DaveyJones1968 17:59, 8 June 2007 (UTC))

You're going to have a lot of problems finding a picture that isn't copyrighted. The one in the article is from an uncopyrighted trailer, but I'd guess that all publicity stills and other photographs are owned by someone. Good luck, but remember that Wikipedia policy is that copyright is more important that quality. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 02:08, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree. A pic with the thin, (nearly iconic) pencil mustache would be better, IMNSHO.---- (btw, please, add tildes for me... someone scrambled all the keys on my board!)

The Postal Service - Clark Gable [song]

any relation to the person?

No relation. It makes sense to reference Clark Gable from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_Up article, but not really the other way around. Theoretically you could tie it in as evidence of his postmortem impact on our culture, but there is better evidence available. This evinces only that a very few (admittedly well known) people were influenced to write & produce the song.

GA Fail

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I came to this review, excited at the chance to pass Clark Gable as a Good Article. Unfortunately, at the current time, there are too many problems with the article for it to be passed as a Good Article at this time. Here are just some of the most pressing concerns:

1. The lead needs to conform to WP:LEAD. Specifically, it must summarize all the major points/headings made in the article. Currently, it does not even come close to doing this.
2. All one-two sentence paragraphs must be either expanded or merged with the surrounding paragraphs, as they cannot stand alone.
3. There is far too much uncited material in this article to allow it to pass. Examples include:

   Various bits and pieces in the "Early life" (as a general, although not strict, rule of thumb, each paragraph at least should end with a citation)

   Ditto for the "Hollywood" section

   Statements that purport to get into Gable's head: "She thought he was a wooden actor while he considered her a snob." (Hollywood) for example

   Potentially controversial claims, such as "Throughout most of the 1930s and 1940s, he was arguably the world's biggest movie star."

   Much of the unfortunately titled (see below) "Most famous roles," especially those parts that deal with the problems mentioned above

   Much of "Marriage to Carole Lombard"

   Much of "After World War II"

   The ENTIRE children section, especially since it's not exactly standard material.

   Addressing the "citation needed" tags under "Death" would be very crucial as well.

4. In addition, I think that there is a significant problem with tone in this article that contributes to my questioning of how neutral this article is. For one thing, it focus very heavily on information obtained from a single biography and at times reads more like a casual biography of the subject than an encyclopedic article. For example, the following is lovely for a book about Gable, but is not very encyclopedic in tone:

   ""His ears are too big and he looks like an ape." So said Warner Bros. executive Darryl F. Zanuck about Clark Gable after testing him for the lead in Warner's gangster drama Little Caesar (1931).[10] After several failed screen tests for Barrymore and Zanuck, Gable was signed in 1930 by MGM's Irving Thalberg. He became a client of agent Minna Wallis, well-connected sister of producer Hal Wallis and very close friend of Norma Shearer."

   Even worse, it is insufficiently cited. A statement such as "After moving to California, they were married again in 1931, possibly due to differences in state legal requirements" is purely speculative without a citation.

5. A heading such as "Most famous roles" is completely subjective and non-neutral. Articles and headings are to avoid direct references to notability and instead establish it through the prose itself. Maybe you can call it "high profile roles" or something, but "Most famous" is completely unacceptable.

Overall, the article does not read like a well-written encyclopedic listing of Clark Gable and, furthermore, is only sparsely cited. Normally, when a review encounters a small number of problems, the article is put on hold to allow for changes to be made. In this case, however, the need for better citations and improved tone is too critical to merit a hold. I suggest that, before renomination, that biographies of FA actors and actresses are reviewed to get a sense of an appropriate tone for Wikipedia. It's difficult for me to describe exactly what's wrong with the tone, but it should become clear by looking at Featured Biographies. If you feel that this review is in error, you may take to good article reassessment. Cheers, CP 04:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

LGBT?

An editor has added the LGBT project banner to this article. Do the two sentences about one writers assertions really justify adding it to the project? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 06:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm removing the project banner until/unless someone comes up with a reason for it to be there :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:10, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Another (IP) editor removed the following text. I'm inclined to leave it out until someone can actually look at the book and see if there are good secondary sources. A biographer talking about events in the 1940s needs to have some good primary sources, and - judging at least by the Amazon.com reviews - the veracity of the book is questionable.

David Bret's book Clark Gable: Tormented Star claims that Gable had relationships with openly homosexual men and was "gay for pay" in his early career. It claims that Gable was branded a "sissy" by his father as a child, prompting him to adopt a macho image and denounce homosexuality. The book reported Gable's first two wives turned a blind eye towards his affairs with men, such as Johnny Mack Brown, William Haines, Earl Larimore and Rod LaRocque - Gable outed them to the press to prevent himself from being outed. After 1942, ending his affair with the journalist Ben Maddox, Gable seems to have 'gone straight'. It also recounts that his wartime "heroics" were no more than an elaborate publicity stunt which subsequently embarrassed the U.S. government. He was promoted through the ranks from private to major in less than a year. According to David Bret, Gable was suffering from phimosis, an inability to retract the foreskin of his uncircumcised penis.<ref>[http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1906217041 ''Clark Gable: Tormented Star''] David Bret, JR Books, 2007</ref>

-- John Broughton (♫♫) 00:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

You don't seem to understand Wikipedia. Per WP:NOT, we don't include things simply because they "exist". We only cite reliable sources. If the book is filled with errors (as reviews seems to say), then it is not reliable. If the book itself is controversial, then we can cite a reliable source (for example, a review in the New York Times) that says the book exists and is controversial. But we don't mention non-notable books; otherwise, Wikipedia would become (essentially) a dumping ground of book summaries.

What I recommended was for someone to discuss whether there are good sources indicating what the removed paragraph say is, in fact, true. This has nothing to do with what I think about Clark Gable (in fact, I'm pretty indifferent) or what I think about gay or bisexual folks (in fact, I have absolutely no problems with them, their behavior, or their being allowed to marry). It has to do with the truth. Biographers of dead people are free to say things that would be libelous if their subjects are still alive - libel is only relevant to the living. Scandalous bios sell better than non-scandalous ones. Given those two facts, it behooves us to look for other sources (or, same thing, look to see what sources are cited in footnotes and endnotes in the book).

Plus the paragraph was way too long, given the rest of what was in the section; that's an WP:NPOV violation (to much space; not enough balance). -- John Broughton (♫♫) 19:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't use "rumors" as sources unless the rumors are reported in a reliable source. As for statements by Cukor and others, source please? And if (as you say in the edit summary) that the book "hasn't been "universally panned" at all, please provide a source. I looked, for example, at amazon.com; I've rarely seen such comments about how inaccurate a book is. I'll be happy to agree to *some* book info back in IF you can provide sources.

Also, you've not responded to the point that the length of the paragraph makes it a WP:NPOV violation (space and balance); please address that issue here before reposting. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 20:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

It would seem that the article would be best served by the involved editors of the page arriving at a consensus for whether or not the disputed material should be included. If a consensus is reached that the material is unreliable, then omit it. Wildhartlivie (talk) 11:50, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

The current two sentences seem to sum it up nicely. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 04:41, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Typical. The two sentences that say Clark Gable was gay are at the end of his biography. Some people in their straight supremacist fervor downplay or deny gay people's relationships unless they don't like them then they emphasize and distort until they are blue. Clark Gable like many gay people got married because of overwhelming social pressure to conform to the straight supremacist ideology (that everyone is or should be straight) which is beaten into every person from childhood until death. Because of that overwhelming social pressure gay people who dared BE THEMSELVES hid their relationships. So you are not going to find children or marriage certificates or newspaper articles or any of the obvious and publicized information that you see with opposite-sex relationships.

I've read the biography that's mentioned here about Clark Gable. It claims that he was bisexual not gay/homosexual. Unfortunately the author of the biography didn't do much research and just used 2nd hand sources like a female movie star claiming that she knew that Clark Gable was bisexual or some of his supposed male lovers claiming that they'd had affairs with him. Here's a link to a review about the book. http://www.ebar.com/arts/art_article.php?sec=books&article=428 It reminds me of the Hollywood Babylon books by Kennith Anger which are mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.45.77 (talk) 09:13, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Gable's additional involvement in World War II

Though it is noted that Capt. William Clark Gable became involved as a USSAF Bomber Pilot, little is known of "Other Assignments" that he was asked to do. Serving under the 356th. Fighter Group, it has been strongly alledged at times that he participated in Aero RECON-Intelligence with his film crew, who was doing training and publicity films for the Army Air Corps. In a candid photograph, a displeased Capt. Gable was caught at a canteen drinking a cup of coffee, in the background, there were two fellow officers beside a Jeep. One of these officers was none other than fighter pilot, Lieut. Col. Norman Cota, Jr., the Son of Maj. General, Norman Cota, Sr. of Normandy Invasion-Omaha Beach fame. It is alledged that both Gable and Cota were associated during some of these RECON-Intelligence assignments. It later has been discovered that Lieut. Col. Cota, Jr., was a distant cousin to actress, Jane Alice Peters (aka: Carole Lombard), Spouse of Capt. Gable. Aedwardmoch (talk) 03:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment

Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 11:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Edits from Banned User HC and IPs

Wikipedia's banning policy states that "Any edits made in defiance of a ban may be reverted to enforce the ban, regardless of the merits of the edits themselves. As the banned user is not authorized to make those edits, there is no need to discuss them prior to reversion."

1) HarveyCarter (talk · contribs) and all of his sockpuppets are EXPRESSLY banned for life.

2) Be on the look out for any edits from these IP addresses:

AOL NetRange: 92.8.0.0 - 92.225.255.255

AOL NetRange: 172.128.0.0 - 172.209.255.255

AOL NetRange: 195.93.0.0 - 195.93.255.255

Tourette's?

Is it true that he suffered from Tourette's syndrome? If so, it should be added to the article. Zazaban (talk) 07:39, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Politics

What source did you find stating that Gable was a "conservative Republican all his life"? I've been looking for more info about this claim and can't find anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.63.1.9 (talk) 20:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

He wore a Hoover badge during the 1932 election. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.220.42 (talk) 13:31, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Politics

Although the biography currently includes a whole section on Gable and politics, he was not a very political person. Ancestry.com has placed on-line the Los Angeles County voter registration records for every biennial election from 1916 through 1960. Gable does not appear in any voter registration in that period. — Walloon (talk) 22:53, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Topics 2010–2014

Estate

His former estate in Encino, California was carved up to make several homes in the 1970s. I just deleted a reference to somebody purchasing his house in 1989.I'm sure it was bought and sold before and since but this info is not relevant to Clark Gable.76.166.245.241 (talk) 20:05, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Update.Somebody just reinstated the information that somebody purchased the Encino,California house 29 years after his death.They insist on including the names of the buyers as if that is relevant.I don't think it is and I would be very surprised if an article on say,Winston Churchill included a section listing the owners of his prior residences.Somebody apparently has an agenda to get their names included here. I deleted it again because the information is not in the least bit noteworthy76.166.245.241 (talk) 06:31, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Crash incident

I have removed the following:

In September 1942 a Dakota took off from Pershore Airfield, Worcestershire, England with an American Film crew on board starting to make an air gunnery film. Experiencing engine trouble they made an emergency landing on Perdiswell Airfield, Worcester's grass field.The plane slid across the wet grass and crashed through the boundary fence onto the Bilford Road and into the Cities rubbish tip, damaging the landing gear and one engine.

On board was General Spaatz, the senior American in Europe, who broke his ankle. He was heard to grumble "I didn't cross the Atlantic to land in the towns trash heap". In the Co-Pilots seat was a very shaken Film Star Clark Gable who was helped out by the RAF police on gate duty.According to official records he was on flight training in Texas, but had actually taken leave and hitched a lift with Spaatz and the film crew across the Atlantic.They were all taken to the RAF Officers mess in Perdiswell Hall for a little drop of something for shock.

The plane blocked the road for some days until it was dismantled and loaded onto an RAF 'Queen Mary' long trailer.

I have tried without success to trace what happened to the plane "Idiots Delight" named after one of Gables pre-war films. Is there any official record of this interesting incident? Did any of the film taken survive? I would be grateful for any information to help completethe record. I was only twelve at the time but remember the Flying Instuctor pilots who were billeted with us telling my motherall about the handsome Gable.

Photographs of "Idiots Delight" are available. Max

Until the incident is verified by official record and/or a first-hand account, it doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article. Certainly statesments like, "I would be grateful for any information to help completethe [sic] record" don't belong in the article. — Walloon 19:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC) First Hand Account. I have a letter dated 1988 from the Sergeant who helped Gable from the plane and then lived in Northern Ireland. He was suffering from severe arthritis and is probably not alive now. I was also present when Flying Officer Davies, Senior Pediswell Instructor and Flying Officer Medland told my parents about the incident. Coupled with the photographs of "Idiots Delight" lying in the 'trash tip' surely the incident deserves its place in history. Max Sinclair All I would like to know is did "Idiots Delight" survive the war. American records have proved hopeless. Max

Gable's teeth

The late Hedda Hoppa claimed that Clark Gable, while on the film set, daily white-washed his teeth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.93.199.154 (talk) 09:50, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, spelling mistake, I meant Hedda Hopper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.93.199.154 (talk) 09:58, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Error's in References.

Could someone clean up those 4 red lines at the bottom of the page? --77.248.65.15 (talk) 14:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Song named "I Heard Clark Gable Was Gay"

The grindcore band 2 0' Clock Girlfriend has a song named I Heard Clark Gable Was Gay. I can't seem to find a specific source that would be deemed okay per the rules that wp distributes but you know there are a lot of pages on this site that have the courtesy of mentioning references to other things so i was believing it was appropriate for this to be done —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.228.2.28 (talk) 08:05, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

References

Removed these references that weren't cited in the text. --Kerowyn ^{Leave a note} 18:39, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

• "The Shirt Off His Back". Snopes.com. Retrieved 2008-04-03.</ref>

• Obituary Variety, November 23, 1960, pg. 71</ref>

• Harris, pg. 185</ref>

'After WWII' section

Half of the stuff in the subheading 'After WWII' is actually talking about his career, and would be useful in the career section rather than the personal life section. I think it should be split. --Lobo512 (talk) 12:27, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Grace Kelly, et. al.

The claim that Gable had an affair with Grace Kelly is unsubstantiated and should be removed. It is all too easy to say "someone famous had an affair with someone else." It happens constantly. Yet there is no citation and, since the claim is about something that might have happened sixty years ago it amounts to gossip.Catherinejarvis (talk) 17:21, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Quotes Removed?

Why was the quote:(it went somthing like this) 'He was what men wish they could be or ever wanted to be' removed? It was in the article not more than a month ago, and there was no mention in talk of it having been removed. WillardWorsley (talk) 10:59, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup

cleaned up/tightened up poorly written intro section - really sloppy - everything was kinda run together, for instance intro paragraph and Academy Award bit... deleted erroneous or biased info/unreferenced definitive statements/run on sentences - "...was an American film actor most famous for his role as Rhett Butler in the 1939 Civil War epic film Gone with the Wind, in which he starred with Vivien Leigh." - ridiculously lousy and run-on... that was actually the first sentence of the article. and on another note - it's entirely possible... though certainly arguable that he is best remembered for his role as Butler - he's known for a number of his films - and the fact that he costarred with vivien leigh is totally irrelevant in an article on Gable himself - certainly relevant in the article for Gone With the Wind, but not Gable's. as i said, just wanted to tighten up the article vis a vis grammar, organization and info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.183.159.197 (talk) 19:45, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Smoking

Per WP:DENY, closing discussion started by sockpuppet of banned editor HarveyCarter. Binksternet (talk) 01:13, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Shouldn't the article mention that Gable was a heavy smoker, as this was the main cause of his early death? (92.11.198.185 (talk) 21:41, 2 March 2014 (UTC)) Meh, practically all the Hollywood stars were heavy smokers in those days...I'm sure he drank far too much as well. But if you'd really like to see it in the article, and can find a good quality source to reference it to, please don't be afraid to be bold and add it yourself. Cheers! --Loeba (talk) 21:46, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Seventh greatest male actor of all time???

This drastically misquotes the AFI list. The Institute wasn't clear about its criteria, saying only that it relates to "legend" and "screen presence." Please note that, on this list, John Wayne ranks higher than James Dean, Orson Welles, and Laurence Olivier.

I edited the lead AFI statement to reflect the source. Bede735 (talk) 12:27, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

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.

Here's arguably the most successful and prominent leading man of the 20th century (except Chaplin) and there's no Talk about him on this page? I just dropped in to note that it's too bad the site couldn't keep that photo from Gone With the Wind up as the first photograph recently. Best picture of Gable I've ever seen. Jump Forward Immediately (talk) 20:16, 22 October 2014

Oh, just noticed the Archives. Jump Forward Immediately (talk) 20:21, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Buzzfeed article

An interview appeared in Buzzfeed in July 2015 with the son and daughter-in-law of Loretta Young, both of whom claim that Young said in 1998 she was date raped by Clark Gable. I have added this information to the article and have provided a citation. The claim belongs in the article, though we should be careful to note that it is only a claim and include any other information that is available with appropriate citations. --Bookworm857158367 (talk) 22:56, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

To (Bookworm857158367, I feel sincerely with multiple reasons the buzzfeed allegations should only be included on his Wikipedia page and even on Loretta's page if given evidence. This is only a claim, a tabloid writer with a history of tabloid articles. Must this article not be given any notice nor any actual evidence from either of both families within a week, I feel the claim should be taken off because Wikipedia pages are not meant for tabloid claims? I'm sorry for our little fret, I see on your side also you see it only as a claim but I notice it and with many many people: a tabloid article with no evidence or sources that popped out of nowhere. I wanna make sure our escalation of it is quite too small and useless and should be discussed professionally. - User: montygables — Preceding undated comment added 15:20, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, but no. This was an interview conducted with the daughter-in-law and the son of Loretta Young. The claim is sourced and it should be included in the article. You are welcome to look for other sources that could also be added to the article that might contradict or cast doubt on this claim by Chris and Linda Lewis. --Bookworm857158367 (talk) 18:58, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Separate section for Personal life

The section on personal life should not be as a sub-heating 1 but its own heading. Proposal to do that. Also, there might be a need for a rewrite of the page so that the personal life stay in that section.

The Winter of Steppes (talk) 04:05, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Not mortal sin

There are 3 conditions for a sin to be deemed a mortal sin in the Roman Catholic Church:

1. Must be of a serious nature.

2. One must know it is serious.

3. Must have full consent of the will.

Pre-marital sex or sex outside of marriage is considered a *sin of grave matter* (but is not a mortal sin). It would only be considered a mortal sin when the person knows it's a sin of grave matter & further consents to the act. Masturbation, for example, is always considered a venial sin, because one's *will* is weak & thus it's not considered to be *full consent of the will*.

Loretta Young apparently didn't know her Catholic tenets very well. Since she claimed Gable raped her, she did not give consent for the act, so it was not a sin at all for her, neither mortal nor venial in nature. Even if it were a sin, all she had to do was go to Confession, perform her penance, & be granted absolution. That's the whole point of the Sacrament of Penance....to have one's sins forgiven. An archived Talk comment stated it was originally written in the article as being a venial sin, which would be the correct sin....but there was no sin involved if Gable really raped Young. Any priest in the confessional would've told her that.

Young had her first marriage annulled in 1931, like a good Catholic, but her 2nd marriage to Tom Lewis ended in divorce in 1949, & back then the restrictions on divorced Catholics were unyielding with serious repercussions....divorce meant automatic excommunication, which meant a divorced Catholic could no longer receive any of the sacraments (no Confession, no Holy Communion, no Extreme Unction on one's deathbed), & thus would die in a state of sin & go to Hell. Young was buried in a Catholic ceremony, so at some point there must've been an after-the-fact annulment of the Lewis marriage as well, because excommunicates cannot be buried in consecrated ground. Neither can anyone with a *mortal sin* still on their conscience (even tho it wasn't a sin at all if she was raped).

I think Young's *guilt* was from having sex outside of marriage with Gable, which was against the Catholic *rules* entirely, was committing adultery for him (he was still married to Ria Langham in 1935, tho he wasn't a practicing Catholic even tho his mother has him christened as one), & which resulted in pregnancy out of wedlock. Having a child out of wedlock back then was scandalous, would've ruined her career, & her image as one of Hollywood's *good girls*, which was why she kept it a secret for so long. She never even told Gable that Judy was his daughter, which sounds like Young felt he needed to be *punished* for his sins, or perhaps the spitefulness of a woman scorned (he did take up with Carole Lombard soon after Young got pregnant). It probably was mutually consensual sex with a huge dose of good old Catholic guilt for her afterward. Unlike in the Bill Cosby matter, no other woman ever came forward to say Gable had raped her when she said *not interested* to him, not even after he died relatively young & was unable to defend himself against any accusations. He was a huge star & such allegations would've wrecked his career, too, the same as Fatty Arbuckle's was destroyed over a rape accusation that supposedly killed Virginia Rappe 4 days later, due to his weight allegedly crushing her bladder & rupturing it, even tho he was acquitted of any wrongdoing at trial. There was no whiff of hush money paid while Gable was alive (a la Charlie Sheen). It could've been date rape as we *now* define it, if Young was drunk when it happened & therefore too incapacitated to give consent, but back then, that wasn't considered rape under the law, just an unfortunate lapse in judgment.

At any rate, it was not a mortal sin but a venial sin if it was mutually consensual sex, & not a sin at all if Gable did indeed rape Young. It should either be removed entirely or at least downgraded back to the original article text that correctly named it a venial sin. ScarletRibbons (talk) 18:21, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Doing some editing

I've done grammatical tidying, a bit of rearranging for clarity, fixed some vague pronouns, added a few Wikilinks, plus added *citation needed* tags, thru the Stage & silent films section, as of now. Will be back to get to the rest ASAP & will update what I've done here as I go along. A huge film star like Clark Gable deserves better than the article in its current state! I see it failed as a B-class & it looks as if not much has been done in the lengthy interim since. Only the lead looks pretty good. Once I plough thru the prose, I'll see what I can do about references, but it would be a great help if someone else could find a few to put inline. Anyone?

In the meantime, there are MANY references that aren't coded correctly throughout the article. I always struggle with the Wikivoodoocode in trying to fix stuff like that, & usually screw it up. Anyone out there who's better at it than I am, & can do 'em up right? ScarletRibbons (talk) 20:30, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Note on a RfC about "military careers"

There is currently a discussion and a RfC on Mel Brooks's article about his so-called "military career," noted by an infobox module. Since his military service, similar to that of Don Rickles, was for a few years and before their actual careers began, inserting a massive module in the standard infobox, as in this article, seems both misleading and erroneous. For Gable, his "military career" module takes up about 30% of the infobox, while his notability is for being an actor. And like the others, he never had a "military career."--Light show (talk) 01:58, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Where did he and Lombard honeymoon?

Removed reference to Oatman. See Talk:Carole_Lombard#Where did she and Gable honeymoon? Lee Choquette (talk) 01:17, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Death

"...but by his late 50s, he weighed 230 pounds (104 kg). To get in shape for The Misfits, he dropped to 195 pounds (88 kg)." Well, yeah, sure, if we he went from 104-88 kg and his weight dropped to 16 kg (35 pounds), that could have been the reason for his death. But seriously. There's something wrong with claims. What was his weight just before the Misfits? Where are the sources for the claims? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.204.149.177 (talk) 08:42, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have tagged these claims to see if editors can dig up a source. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 14:01, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I went through dozens of good sources, including newspapers and interviews. One stated that after making It Started in Naples, his previous film, he had to lose the 25 pounds he gained after eating Italian food and enjoying fine wine for a few months. But no linkage to his death is mentioned. It's tabloid speculation. And it's just as likely that losing those 25 pounds extended his lifespan and improved his personal life. But everyone agrees that the stress from making The Misfits had a lot to do with his heart attack. --Light show (talk) 20:29, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Needs more sources

The article needs more sources and has been tagged accordingly. SunCrow (talk) 06:31, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

I just hit a button undoing some edit, didn't mean to, oops.Jennablurrs7575 (talk) 07:05, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

If the actresses section is what I restored, well, nevermind and its cited, this lead is, well was naturally strong, and actually doesn't need to be cited, summarizing of articles dont, but was an accident. Please stop arbitrary edits, and will work on the tags. WP:consensus is awesome. Thanks!Jennablurrs7575 (talk) 07:26, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Are we supposed to know what that even meant?! SunCrow (talk) 01:41, 4

October 2019 (UTC)

Please stop edit warring, it will make it hard to get GA standing for this article. Stop removing "Actresses" gable worked with section from the lead, its been properly added/cited within article since you last edited lead and you felt the need to announce tagging the article here. Hope this provides you with clarity. Thanks! Jennablurrs7575 (talk) 03:43, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Attributed quotes about Gable

There's a few quotes given through third parties in this article, such as Larry Gelbart through James Garner's book, The Garner Files, that I'm currently rereading to check. They worked on two things : The Thrill of it All and Barbarians at the Gate, the latter Garner doesn't mention, the former barely and Gelbert I'm not finding as Gelbert didn't work on Run Silent, with Garner speaking of many stars but not Gable.(still tracking though). This third party quoting, that wasn't properly cited by editors that originated material is not helpful in the article for fact checking, if it is ever going to get in any shape for GA standing. I'm trying to research either the material as provided or get new direct links to person saying it, but lacking that, it needs to be removed. Also, Wikipedia is used as source material for many things that editors then cite here, please check the sources used for citations to make sure this isn't the case, I spent some time cleaning up one such issue used here 6 times. Thanks!Jennablurrs7575 (talk) 19:55, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Undershirt sales again

The urban rumor that undershirt sales plummeted ("overnight" even, in some tellings!) because Clark Gable was seen without one in "It Happened One Night" is just that, an absurd bit of Hollywood myth that is endlesly repeated without substantiation.

Yes, you can cite books about the movies that repeat the story but all they have to support it is that it is a story someone repeated to them.

Numerous articles have been written debunking the story. Example: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-shirt-off-his-back/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:CA10:18A0:8815:CB00:F466:436F (talk) 12:52, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Heritage

Didn’t Clark have Black and Native American heritage? AfroWorld33 (talk) 01:55, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I've researched for reliable sources on that and haven't been able to find any. There have been unsubstantiated rumors since his death. The citation that you used actually uses Wikipedia as a source, I know because I wrote a sentence it reuses, so it wasn't us paraphrasing their article. I explained this in the edit log when I removed this information. Jennablurrs7575 (talk) 20:44, 6 November 2020 (UTC)