Talk:China Blue High-definition Disc

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Request English references[edit]

Can I request English reference please. There are enough English reference out there that refer to CH-DVD. It makes it really difficult to check the facts when the text is in Chinese characters. Thanks, Lester 00:08, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Somebody added information about when CH-DVD is due on the market, which I just deleted (see diff). I deleted it for the following reasons: 1. The reference (a video store) was an unreliable source 2. After a thorough search of the referenced site, I could not find any information about the due date of CH-DVD. So I deleted the both the information (about the due date) as well as the reference. The article needs to have reliable information, for example a national newspaper or a well known technology magazine. A video store isn't a good source. Thanks, Lester 03:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are compatible, and are released.[edit]

I understand your scepticism, and will offer you this.... First of note is I only have a few hours of access to a computer signal access per day, if that, so I can't overly read and reference everything at once. I've labeled the page with the correct template, and I'll work on it as time allows over the next few days. Please, allow the time for this to be done as per wikipedia:AGF. I'll get there. I've moved my work off of what could be considered (one of?) your pet project of HD DVD both to limit my time to expanding and properly referencing the CH-DVD page, and to rightfully keep the two articles separate. Reverting while I try to do all the things you ask for in referencing the project page make it hard, if not impossible to finish the work needed; and the page does need work. Lostinlodos (talk) 14:01, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I removed many of the changes user:Lostinlodos made to the article (>diff<), the reason being is that I did not believe those changes were accurate. We need the reliable references upfront before we can make new claims about CH-DVD. It would not be proper for those claims to remain in the article, for any length of time, if they are not accurate. Reliable references are required to demonstrate to other editors that the claims are accurate. Here are the changes I made:
  • I Restored the Future Product tag at the top of page. There is no evidence that the CH-DVD format has been completed, or is on sale to the public.
  • I removed the sentence: "The format is identical to HD DVD", as this claim is not accurate.
  • I removed the sentence: "the two formats require firmware updates to remain compatible". Are any companies designing new HD DVD players? Then where will this firmware upgrade come from? Why would the Chinese want to include a firmware upgrade to bring HD DVD compatibility, when it would defeat the purpose of a royalty free format. We can't say a firmware upgrade will bring compatibility.
  • I removed the sentence: "High-definition discs Industry Alliance of China officially established its debut in China, September 7, 2007." The product was announced on September 7, but the word "debut" is ambiguous, as it may be confused with the product's release. Besides, we already said in the opening paragraph that it was announced on September 7, 2007.
  • I removed the External Link which redirected to a chat forum on Amazon.com, as this is not a reliable source.
Basically, we need reliable reference sources before we can make any claims about CH-DVD. If CH-DVD officially gets released, I'll be supportive of that being included in the article. Thanks, Lester 22:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

CBHD is not the same format as HD DVD[edit]

Some people keep re-inserting that CBHD is HD DVD. The two are different and incompatible formats. CBHD also uses some technology from DVD, making it easier to upgrade disk production lines from DVD to CBHD than it is from DVD to Blu-ray. But this does not mean CBHD is the same format as DVD, or even part of the same format. There are some similarities between CBHD and HD DVD, the biggest being the dimensions and substrate of the disk itself, and a similar spec blue laser. But once again, they are not the same format. The differences between CBHD and HD DVD make them different formats. The different video compression codecs and copy protection make the formats incompatible. A CBHD disk will not play in any existing HD DVD player. Period. It is probably technically possible to combine both formats into a dual format player (CBHD + HD DVD), but no manufacturer has done it, or is likely to do it, so it does not exist.--Lester 21:01, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What about the CH-DVDs that were already released?[edit]

What about the CH-DVDs that were already released? Should they be covered or just grouped into the CBHD. Lostinlodos (talk) 22:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which CH-DVDs were already released? What player was already on the market?--Lester 23:37, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For the short list of just SOME of titles released on "CH-DVD"
WU DI XIAO ZI HUO YUAN JAI; VIOLENT_STREETS; VENUS TEAR DIAMOND; SHIKOKU; KUNG FU INSTRUCTOR; KNIGHT OF KNIGHTS; KE KE XI LI; HIDDEN POWER OF DRAGON SABER; HERO OF SWALLOW; IMAX: COLLECTED; 9413; YAN KAN YAU QING; —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lostinlodos (talk • contribs) 19:12, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sources? Synergy/Blades (Talk) 22:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also, when we say "released", everyone assumes it means released to the public, not some demo in a lab situation. Any organisation making a new format will create prototypes in the lab. But if we say in the article that titles were "released", we need some references to demonstrate that these titles are now on sale in the stores. I have not yet seen any evidence of CH-DVD/CBHD disks in the stores. --Lester 23:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
AV Distribution, the distributor I use to buy all my media, has them. They are physically in my possession. My reason for asking is from reading through the original source sites about CBHD, it's changed slightly from CH-DVD, which has changed even less slightly from HD DVD. I can't tell until I actually get my hands on a CBHD how big of a difference there is going to be (and that's still a while off yet), but from what I've read, the CBHD is still yet again a divergence from CH-DVD/HD DVD. Meaning that it should be a new article on it's own, not a rename of CH-DVD.

Lostinlodos (talk) 20:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stupid question, but have you actually tried playing these discs in either a DVD or HD DVD player? There are reports of older media being passed-of as "CBHD" or "CH-DVD" titles (complete with printed logos.) Also worth doing is putting the thing in a DVD drive in a computer and seeing if the computer is able to read it, they may be rebadged EVDs (I can see EVD/HVDs being marketed as CH-DVDs for obvious reasons, and suspect CBHD players will be required - by market forces if nothing else - to play them) --208.152.231.254 (talk) 15:38, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Each of the ones (CH-DVD) that I own so far were picked up on the computer under AnyDVD-HD as being HD DVDs. Very little has changed. I'm also buying from a distributer, not the secondary market. As my user page states (and various discussions at Sly, VideoHelp, AVS and DD), I also own EVDs AND HVDs. The difference is quite noticeable just by turning the disc over, like BD and HD DVD are. Beyond that the layout/structure is very different on CB, CH/HD, EVD, and HVD. I make no statement about CBHD 'yet', but I gather from what I read that this is a wholly different format using nothing more than HD DVD media and a yet another slightly different TS stream format. proprietary DRM will also be added in. Which is why I believed that CH-DVD belonged as a subset, covered in full under the HD DVD page, and not receiving it's own page. But if making a separate page for CH-DVD, it is NOT CBHD; for the same arguments the BD fans have attacked CH-DVD not being HD DVD and professing HD DVD being dead. The arguments used for that split can be used to split these two formats again.
Still, I believe the best course is to place the entirety of CH-DVD back into the HD DVD page and spin off CB as it's own page; here. Lostinlodos (talk) 19:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quick note: I'm the AIPU above. I'm a fan of HD DVD and was very disappointed when it was discontinued. CH-DVD is not HD DVD. Reading the links given shows major differences between the formats, from the use of different modulation techniques on the discs themselves to the difference in disk layout - including the absence of HDi. Your comment about it being BD fans attacking CH-DVD as not being HD DVD is way off - us HD DVD fans who actually know about the formats aren't wasting our time getting enthusiastic about the format precisely because it isn't HD DVD, because it's not the format we got enthusiastic about. And, worst of all, it replicates the only negatives about HD DVD, the slightly lower capacity compared to Blu-ray. So please don't engage in reverse ad-hominems such as the one above.

The fact the disc is even visible in an HD DVD drive suggests that the disk is, actually, an HD DVD, not a CBHD or CH-DVD. CBHD/CH-DVD is emphatically, according to the presentation linked to by TFA, using a different modulation scheme and it's hard to believe any HD DVD drives have been made that support that modulation. I guess the next question, which will confirm it one way or another, is if you could post a directory listing of the disk, the top level and the subdirectories? If you have GNU/Linux (Ubuntu, etc), something like the output of "find /media/NAME_OF_DISK" would be most helpful.

All the available evidence says CBHD is CH-DVD renamed. China Daily refers to it specifically as the Chinese version of HD DVD, and the DVD Forum assigned China's CHDA/OMNERC groups the rights to modify HD DVD to make CH-DVD and its from these institutions that CBHD is being promoted. At a guess, I'd say what you've been told are CH-DVDs are HD DVDs or are based upon some draft spec. CBHDs are the final spec, and that's what's coming out now.

I can't get excited about CBHD. It'll be nice if the relative ease of making combination HD DVD/CBHD players means someone, somewhere, will make them, but I suspect most manufacturers will just skimp on the additional royalties that would be payable to make such players and just stick with CBHD-only systems. This is, of course, assuming CBHD takes off. HVD didn't. EVD didn't. CVD didn't. SVCD didn't. China has a dreadful record in this respect. --66.149.58.8 (talk) 02:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unreliable blog should be removed[edit]

There has been some edit waring going on, with this blog site repeatedly added to the article. The blog has no authority, and no credibility, and I suggest it should be removed from the CBHD article completely. It should not be in External Links, and it should not be used as reference.--Lester 00:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I originally removed it but haven't reverted the reversion because I wanted more feedback. I don't think it's a blog but it does appear to be a link farm. It contains just enough factual content to pass PageRank but hasn't been updated in a year (well before the standard was finalized this year, and renamed to CBHD), the content itself is speculation written as fact, it has no apparent connection with the authors of the standard, and it appears to be mostly links to similar pages. It really appears to be a PageRank linkfarm.

I agree it should be removed and shouldn't be used as a reference. --208.152.231.254 (talk) 16:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shanghai Optical Disc[edit]

I removed the line stating that Shanghai Optical Disk will market CBHD in 2008. In hindsight, this dated info is wrong.--Lester 09:42, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Details about the format[edit]

I'd like to see some details about the format, mainly size in gigabytes, hardware prices in China and how the format is spreading in Far-Asia.

If I had that knowledge I'd add it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.23.54.32 (talk) 15:17, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted claim about it outselling Blu-ray[edit]

I deleted the claim that CBHD is outselling Blu-ray in China. See edit here. The reason is that it was not reliably sourced. The English translated versions admitted that they had inaccurate translations, taken from something mentioned on a TV show. If there are more reliable sources in future, we can revisit this.--Lester 12:25, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I searched for more reliable references, and reinserted the sales claim here under the 'Industry Support' section, using a reference from Ars Technica.--Lester 06:53, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the re-write. Actually really good, and I thought you were just interested in fighting! ;) Lostinlodos (talk) 15:47, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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