Talk:Charlie Chaplin/Archive 3

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Time Magazine

The following info was recently added, and subsequently wholely removed.

In 1999, Time Magazine named Chaplin one of the 100 Most Important People of the 20th Century, and stated; "The endearing figure of his Little Tramp was instantly recognizable around the globe and brought laughter to millions. Still is. Still does".

I think we can do something with it, even if just a quote with a reference. Any ideas?--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 18:45, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

chaplin and communism

The treatment of Chaplin's relationship with communism left me with a feeling that I didn't have anywhere near the whole story. I found a pretty decent source[1] that left me better informed. Perhaps we could improve the coverage of this aspect of Chaplin's life by including some of the information here. TMLutas (talk) 05:48, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

charlie chaplin ist der berümhmteste stummfilm schauspieler der welt —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.219.151.61 (talk) 19:06, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Building with Chaplin's photo

I heard about a city where there is a building with surname and photo of Charlie Chaplin on the front wall. Do you know where is this town? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.65.67.179 (talk) 22:39, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Martin Sieff quote

Considering to change it from :

• "Chaplin was not just "big," he was gigantic. In 1915, he burst onto a war-torn world bringing it the gift of comedy, laughter and relief while it was tearing itself apart through World War I. Over the next 25 years, through the Great Depression and the rise of Adolph Hitler, he stayed on the job [...]. It is doubtful any individual has ever given more entertainment, pleasure and relief to so many human beings when they needed it the most."
• to : "he burst onto a war-torn world bringing it the gift of comedy, laughter and relief ... through the First World War. ... the Great Depression and the rise of Adolf Hitler ... . It is doubtful any individual has ever given more entertainment, pleasure and relief to so many human beings when they needed it the most"

Any suggestions would be nice. wiooiw (talk) 21:23, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from J6rm, 2 August 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

The United Artists (1919-1939) section states that "Modern Times was the first film where Chaplin's voice is heard (in the nonsense song at the end, being both written and performed by Chaplin)." with the words "nonsense song" linking to Modern Times (film)

Another article Je cherche après Titine states that the song is composed by Léo Daniderff with lyrics by Louis Mauban and Marcel Bertal. However, the nonsense lyrics were probably written by Chaplin.

I suggest changing the sentence in the article as following:

Modern Times was the first film where Chaplin's voice is heard (in the nonsense song at the end, which Chaplin both performed and wrote the nonsense lyrics to).

J6rm (talk) 23:56, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Requests to edit semi-protected articles must be accompanied by reference(s) to reliable sources.

I suggest you get an account, then you can help us improve articles. Chzz  ►  01:45, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

 Not done

Done The change did not introduce any new factual information. It was just a simple change in wording to clarify the meaning. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 01:49, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

gushing with subjective praise

I am a fan, and I recognize the significance of Chaplin's contributions to cinema. That being said, this article is full of highly subjective praise that is unfitting for an objective biography. Describing movies or performers as "brilliant," "truly classic," etc. is the expression of opinion. If it was just one or two comments, I'd just correct it myself, but it runs throught the article; major clean-up is required to make this NPOV. Minaker (talk) 10:15, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

To describe something as "brilliant" or "truly classic" need not,in and of it self, be "merely" (sic) an opinion. It can be objective if objective criteria for the judgment can be provided. --Though what is and what is not "objective" will be open to contestation, it is possible to do more than just gush and express an opinion when one makes a judgment--even an aesthetic (or moral) one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.148.51.36 (talk) 19:04, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Whatever. Any unsourced claim that this that or the other aspect of Chaplin or his works were/are "brilliant" or a "true classic" should be sourced or removed. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:12, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

"Brilliant" isn't in the article, and I've removed the "classic" label. I agree it's inappropriate. It's not for us to call films or people "classic" or brilliant (even if they are classic and brilliant, as we all know Chaplin was). Is there anything else? I'm not seeing any major POV issue in this article. ScottyBerg (talk) 20:01, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Roma/Sinti Gypsi Heritage?

Resolved

Chaplin is mentioned here: [[2]] Can this be sourced, or is it false information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.85.169.25 (talk) 03:56, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

It's sourced in the article at Charlie_Chaplin#Early_life_in_London - SummerPhD (talk) 13:06, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Other Controversies needs a rewrite

We need to kind of fix this. It's locked so I don't really want to log in just for this, but rather,I want to start a discussion about it. Is source # 46 really reliable, as it is about a collector's item more than the person? Why is he in the agnostics category, when the source just says "he is believed to have been agnostic." That doesn't merit a category entry nor does he ever mention his religious background (if any). The source used doesn't even have the word "agnostic" or anything about his religion in it. The sentence before the "citation needed" tag in the same paragraph needs to have a citation or be taken out. I haven't found one saying that Chaplin said that quote. The paragraph about his attraction to younger women kind of bothers me. While I'm pretty sure it's notable, I don't see a source nor do I see any real reason for it's inclusion, as it's just "floating" there with no sources. Discuss. 64.234.0.101 (talk) 04:30, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

On a side note, the Relationships section is worded... strange. I don't know, but it reads almost like an issue of people magazine than anything else. Any thoughts? 64.234.0.101 (talk) 04:30, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Redundancies

The article is locked, but the sections regarding Mr. Chaplin's various studio endeavors make numerous redundant references to his films. This makes it a bit difficult to follow a time-line for his work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.170.99.212 (talk) 10:55, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Trips, travelogs and books

I've been trying to find some of this information about Charlie Chaplin but can't seem to find out when he went to Europe for which he wrote about it in his 1922 book "My Trip Abroad" ('My Wonderful Visit' UK title). He also later went there in the 1930's I think and wrote 'A comedian sees the world', for Woman’s Home Companion in five installments, which was later put into book form a few years ago. I was also wondering if two of his other books 'My Early Years', and 'My Life in Pictures,' are alternate names of "My Autobiography", excerpts from it or actually completely different books. I'd like to see it mentioned in the biography section when he left on these trips, and a bibliography of what books he wrote and which were only written about him. It also looks like his book 'My Trip Abroad' is now in the public domain in the USA having been printed before 1923, Chaplin's 'My Trip Abroad' book at Hathi Trust Digital Library. (Floppydog66 (talk) 09:04, 23 September 2010 (UTC))

Lover and comedian

He sure did admire a ladies beauty he loved the women that is for sure. Who doesn't? Live on Charlie Chaplin you made us all laugh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.124.115.67 (talk) 14:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

NPOV issue?

I'm not clear on why there's an NPOV tag. It's not clear from the discussions above. Can someone explain, so that the issue can be addressed or the tag removed? ScottyBerg (talk) 23:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Tag was added on August 11 by User:Minaker who started a discussion at the section titled "gushing with subjective praise" above. Big Bird (talk • contribs) 19:19, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I just fixed one of the peacock terminology referred to in that section, and the other seems to have gone. Is there anything else? I really don't see anything problematic in the article. Besides, what that editor pointed out is really more of a WP:PEACOCK issue than one of fundamental imbalance. Would anyone object if I removed the NPOV tag? ScottyBerg (talk) 19:59, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Romany Ancestry

"His paternal grandmother's mother was from the Smith family of Romanichals"

This line from the article is incorrect. It was his maternal grandmother's mother who was the gypsey. Chaplin's father was much fairer than his mother. See the article Chaplin family —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.126.78 (talk) 03:04, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Influenced is totally wrong

Chalie influenced a thousand artists — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alex Rio Brazil (talk • contribs) 15:48, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Roy Export

Please change "Today, nearly all of Chaplin's output is controlled by his estate via dummy company/outlet Roy Export Company Establishment, which enforces the library's copyrights and decides how and when this material can be released. " to "Today, nearly all of Chaplin's output is controlled by his estate via company Roy Export S.A.S in Paris, which enforces the library's copyrights and decides how and when this material can be released. " because Roy Export Co Est (which was NOT a DUMMY company for goodness' sake!!) assigned the rights to Roy Export S.A.S two years ago - the assets are now owned and managed by Roy Export S.A.S of which I am managing director. Kate Guyonvarch (talk) 11:32, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Taken care of--see section below. Qwyrxian (talk) 13:53, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

=Edit request from 90.24.137.60, 12 January 2011

IP editor listed below had originally posted this at WT:BRD; I've moved it here. It appears to be a duplicate of the above w/the edit request added. Qwyrxian (talk) 13:37, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected}} Please change "Today, nearly all of Chaplin's output is controlled by his estate via dummy company/outlet Roy Export Company Establishment, which enforces the library's copyrights and decides how and when this material can be released. " to "Today, nearly all of Chaplin's output is controlled by his estate via company Roy Export S.A.S in Paris, which enforces the library's copyrights and decides how and when this material can be released. " because Roy Export Co Est (which was NOT a DUMMY company for goodness' sake!!) assigned the rights to Roy Export S.A.S two years ago - the assets are now owned and managed by Roy Export S.A.S of which I am managing director. Kate Guyonvarch office@charliechaplin.com

90.24.137.60 (talk) 11:13, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Partly done:I have update the company to Roy Export S.A.S., based upon a variety of pages on the website. I took out the part that says "controlled by his estate" because the website (the only reliable source I can find to work with) does not state that the estate has any authority. They mention the Association Chaplin, composed entirely of family members, but there is no indication that Association actually "controls" anything. As a side note, if you actually are the managing director, I recommend you change the Association Chaplin page, which still lists Roy Export Company Establishment as the current owner. Qwyrxian (talk) 13:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Prime-daedalus (talk) 22:00, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

That Middle Name: Is it or Isn't It?

Is the middle name "Spencer" an historic, geneological link to the family of John Spencer, Viscount Althorp (later the 8th Earl Spencer) and, more famously, his daughter Diana, the late Princess of Wales? If so, I feel this should be included in the Chaplin biogrgraphy. It is reasonable to think the landed gentry of the Spencer line during the late 19th century would not readily acknowledge music hall entertainers in the family, if indeed, they are related, and twicefold, anyone to declare in public a partial Romani heritage also. I myself simply do not have the skill to make such a determination.

I've just been listening to a Radio 4 programme about his house, with his son. [3] They talked about him saying that he had Gypsy blood - but this may be because of the letter (see below). His birth certificate has not been found. No mention (I think) of a Di Spencer connection. There's W. Spencer-Churchill too of course. Myrvin (talk) 21:09, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

"W. Spencer-Churchill" is from the same family as Lady Diana Spencer, though. See Spencer family. JRawle (Talk) 21:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Alleged Gipsy Background

Was he a Gipsy?

There's no doubt that Chaplin had Romany ancestry (something that he always maintained himself). The 'Black Patch' letter is interesting but I'm doubtful that there's currently enough historical proof to include it so prominently in the article. Blakk and ekka 15:51, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

There is no doubt Chaplin told stories of having gypsy blood, but the mainstream biographers take this assertion with a grain of salt. Without hard evidence to support his being descended from gypsies, Chaplin's version cannot be given so much weight. Various biographers such as Kenneth Schuyler Lynn, David Robinson, Ingeborg Kohn, Jeffrey Vance and Charles J. Maland discuss Chaplin's parents, but none of these say absolutely that Chaplin had a fraction of gypsy blood. Binksternet (talk) 16:15, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Google Doodle

Just so you know... today's Google Doodle's secand hit is this article - referring to the 122nd anniversary of C.C.'s birth/ We're likely to get a lot of pageviews, new productive edits, attention and also vandalism here today. Witty Lama 04:29, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Weird, the article says April 16th, and today's 15th? Now what birthday is the right one? --77.23.192.76 (talk) 10:48, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Today the 15th is his birthday - There are two known sources: The ERA and The Magnet both carried anouncements of his birth - Charlie was the one that said it was the 16th

Edit request from Thefrettinghand, 15 April 2011

Please remove the extraneous double-quote character after the film title ' Gold Rush" ' [sic] in the last sentence of paragraph 1 in Filmography and current rights issues section.

Thefrettinghand (talk) 16:35, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

 Done That was easy. Thanks for the note! Binksternet (talk) 17:29, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

American?

Do you think it makes sense to show Charlie Chaplin as American in several categories if he never became officially an American citizen? I don't think so, but I would like to know more people's opinion on the matter.82.154.85.202 (talk) 21:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Charlie Chaplin lived in the United States for a long time but he never wanted to become an American citizen. He was often criticized for that and it would be interesting to find any source where he explains why he decided to remain always a British citizen. Since he always was technically speaking a foreigner living in the United States, I don't think he should appear in any American category.Mistico (talk) 16:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

He lived there for work only, and even if he did become an American citizen he would of still been British as the countries allow dual citizenship. He should only be classes as an Ex-pat in America, he was in no way American and never identified as such. And the "Criticize" bit sounds like some stereotypical American Superiority complex. --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 11:57, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

He was never American and in the fifties he proudly proclaimed his British citizenship. ScottyBerg (talk) 12:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Image overload?

If I counted correctly, there are 16 pictures on this page (not including the image of him as the Tramp in the infobox). Does that seem like a bit too much to anyone else? Vyselink (talk) 02:33, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request

His son Sydney Chaplin has died on March 3, 2009 (data from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Chaplin_%28actor%29 ), and is not shown at Personal life and Family > Children.

He is Chaplin's third son and is listed in the 'Children' table as "Sydney Earle Chaplin" and with mother Lita Grey. It already lists his birth and death. (Floppydog66 (talk) 23:13, 14 May 2011 (UTC))

Since this is already answered and in the article, marking as complete. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:59, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 83.24.148.162, 22 July 2011

Please change the information in section Legacy. It is written that Chaplin won the 3. place in the look-alike contest and there are given sources (81, 82). In the sources it is said that he didn't even make it to the finals. So the correct information should be he did take part in the contest but didn't make it to the finals. Thank you.

83.24.148.162 (talk) 09:39, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Done Mato (talk) 12:31, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 148.204.33.13, 23 August 2011

represented Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 1978 in the which the singer Tania Tsanaklidou talks about Charlie Chaplin, a year after his death

148.204.33.13 (talk) 16:07, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

I removed the bit of trivial mention. Thanks for pointing it out! Binksternet (talk) 16:30, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Charlie Chaplin in Nursery Rhymes

To be placed in the legacy section?

There are many mentions of Charlie Chaplin in modern nursery rhymes such as Charlie Chaplin went to France to teach young ladies how to dance and Charlie Chaplin meek and mild, took a sausage off a child. There has been one reference to Charlie Chaplin in a rhyme in Montreal (...don't forget to give to Mary/Not to Charlie Chaplin) but most references are in Britain. (Source The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren, Peter and Iona Opie.

By the way is there any particular reason why this article is closed to editing? It is not as if its a living person. 92.20.152.86 (talk) 17:56, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit Request

In the "Children" table, the Salkind grandkids should be in the same line as Jane, their mother, not Annette

see following ref for cite:http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1994-03-13/news/9403130132_1_jane-chaplin-salkind-legend-charlie-chaplin

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.177.12.158 (talk) 18:43, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Done. RashersTierney (talk) 11:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Overhauling this page

Chaplin deserves an excellent article. He was an absolute genius and one of the most important cultural/creative figures in history. He's a fascinating person as well. I have a few books on him and, in time, am planning to really make a go at bringing this page up to, at least, GA status. The page isn't bad right now but it could be sooo much better, I kind of want to give it a complete reworking to be honest. It would be great to make it a collabrative process though so thought I'd start asking - are there any other Chaplin fans out there who would want to get involved in this? What do you think? --Lobo512 (talk) 17:23, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I've got a lot of irons in the fire but I can keep an eye on your progress here. I live near Niles, the filming site for many of the early Essanay reels, so I have a gently positive POV regarding Chaplin's early Essanay work—a handful of fair-to-decent movies including The Tramp. It would be good to have a bit more detail about Chaplin's whopping signing bonus and unheard-of salary with Essanay. More sources: [4][5][6][7][8][9][10]

Some of the above-linked books are new or newish. They might be good material. Binksternet (talk) 18:01, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I see you're one of the main editors to the article, cool. There's certainly lots of good stuff on the page and it's well written. I just think it could be a lot more detailed and the references right now are pretty poor (on the whole). In my opinion as well, there were so many big events in Chaplin's life that coincided with his career, that I think his page would be better organized as one big biography (rather than with separate sections on his personal life) followed by artistry and legacy. What d'you think of that? I've made this statement a bit prematurely - I still need to do lots of research, and also have a bad back/arm right now that means I can't use the computer much. I work full time as well so I don't intend for it to be an intensive process - definitely a slow, gradual one. I just got excited by the prospect and decided to make a comment now, hehe. Those sources look good (I own the last book). I have to say, it's a bit daunting how much literature there is out there about him...gulp. --Lobo512 (talk) 18:35, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Until you can comfortably write on the computer your spare time will be best used in reading up!

I am always in favor of a Wikipedia article being reworked by one person to make it less of a patchwork quilt constructed separately by many hands, with no sense of story. Binksternet (talk) 19:11, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree that tends to produce the best pages, I'm just not quite confident enough in my own abilities! I'm always second guessing myself. As long as there are some people I can turn to for opinions and advice (and ideally for copy editing), that's the main thing I care about. But this request will remain permenantly open, I really would like some helpers and I certainly don't want to "take over the page" or anything. I won't start working on it for at least a couple of weeks, so lots of time for people to volunteer. ;) --Lobo512 (talk) 19:30, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Update: Thought I should comment since I wrote this three weeks ago now and it looks like I've abandoned the project. I still fully intend to do this, but I'm afraid I've been sidetracked by Spencer Tracy. Don't blame him, his page is in even more need of work. I don't know know when I'll get round to Chaps, but I definitely will at...some point. Anyone who'd like to help, get in touch. --Lobo512 (talk) 16:48, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Film scores

Re: "Chaplin wrote or co-wrote the scores and songs for many of his films. "Smile", which he composed for his film, Modern Times, hit number 2 on the UK charts when sung by Nat King Cole in the 1950s"

"Smile" was actually composed by David Raksin, who went on to score Laura. Chaplin did not compose music at all, actually; he merely supervised and guided the composition of movie scores. TheScotch (talk) 07:44, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request

Carol Ann Barry is not Charlie Chaplin's Daughter.It was proven in court she was not his child why is she listed?Needs to be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.64.175.22 (talk) 06:04, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I agree, it's not right to include her. I'm planning a big change of the article in the near future, but let's remove it for now anyway. --Lobo512 (talk) 11:52, 11 December 2011 (UTC)